Quote: Originally Posted by SirJosephPorter>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Not anymore, science has evolved. Check the video sonogram that your wife performs... beating heart at "how many weeks?" Do you deny those small fingers, the feet and toes... as human? Get honest sir. Don't hide behind your wife and her sterile curtain of innocence. You can find the videograms all over the world, all over the internet. I provided one in the initial post, please reviewQuote has been trimmed, See full post:
Bluedog, nobody is doubting the presence of small fingers, feet etc., they can be seen with the help of sonograms, as you point out.
But the question still is, is that human life? When does the life begin? Does it begin at conception? We don’t know. Scientists cannot say with any degree of certainty when life begins.
The scientific view regarding life is that life is a continuum, with no beginning or end. To claim that life begins at conception is a purely arbitrary supposition. If you have such a reverence for life, then why stop at conception? The sperm and egg are alive before the conception; why not show the same regard, the same respect to them as you show towards the product of conception?
If and when a scientific consensus emerges telling us that life begins at conception, that is when I will become prolife. But until that happens, I am vehemently opposed to forcing women to carry the pregnancy to term, to forcing them to have babies.
The sperm and egg are alive yes, but they are separate representations of each partner not unique, new, human life. You mispoke we can agree. Oh yes also... Scientists believe life ends with death. The medical definition of same.
Sir, I believe, I'm conviced that we have much more in common than you think. We do BOTH believe regards invitro life, that it is human, we do BOTH believe it is "Alive", thus, -a life- by definition. We agree, that it has its own beating heart and nervous system we both know it has a digestive system with the ability to rid itself of waste products.
My good friend, where we 'start' to disagree, is the viability point. At which point in the life cylce does it become
self-sustaining viable life!
I don't argue for Viability Why? You will see- I argue for Valua-bilty.
Can a baby, once born infant survive without its mother? No?
Why, it is viable yes, is it also deemed valuable though? When? At what age? Think on this!
Can that Very Same -Unborn Infant child- survive without benefit of its mothers nurturing womb? No? Yet it can despite it. Why? Is it therefore less valuable? Because it is not yet born?
I wonder... Is it due to medical problems or the mothers/fathers problems, that makes it not valuable? Anothers Privacy? Is privacy actually more valuable than an innocent human life? WoW! We may have stumbled onto a whopper!!! lol !!!!
Is it a Viable or Valuable living being before it takes its first "breath of life" as so many call it? No, Why?
In the sixth month it can be extracted and force fed oxygen. Does it only then become viable then valuable? It after all was "living" breathing, quite well -All Along- before that withdrawl, on its mothers oxygen. Was it valuable or valuable then? Hmmm.
If mother sustains injury to her womb or uterus in the eight or nineth month after it can "safely" be extracted. Is it only living then, outside its womb viable, and upon that "magic first breath" valuable? No Why? If it was not "in danger" or "deemed safe, alive" would these terms would be necessary? Viable or Valuable? when?
When is it then Viable or Valuable?
To your points:
Quickly. You would argue that sperm is a living life, because it is the living purveyor of genetics from a man? Respectfully no sir. It is a part of man, his fertile seed -with only a potential for human life, only after a union- conception. We agree!
It is the intertwining of male AND female that cause the process to begin. Before that each, the sperm and the egg, were a mere "living" ejaculate of each- too often strewn recklessly on the ground. We agree.
No brother. Outside "that circle of potential nesting" when they each struggle, if delivered alone inside, life is futile. It is "deadly" -for both die, become "not living". We agree again!
For then the uterus rids itself of the Unnecessary "Unliving matter". Even her own once living egg, that now is futile is cast off in menstruation without the presence of a viable ejaculate and fertility! We agree!
Yet, Now wait. Think on this... When... If... there is that unique "individual" union of the two... and no "unliving" result becomes cast off... what? It is living! AT the time of conception!! Or naturally, it would be cast off!
You see it already has all it needs genetically it is unique, "individual" and is already innocent by definition. Brother it is only nurtured in the womb... by its mother until it becomes independent. It is "already" an individual by genetics. It is life, not yet viable but very very valuable.
an amazing word. A special protective process that nourishes and nurtures life from the beginning, from the union!
even if that union was started in a cold OR warm petri dish by man, it will NOT survive. It has all the components genetically- it just requires "nurturing". Right? If it does not receive nurturing, It won't survive? That itself means that once unified it was and therefore is already alive "unique, individual" -genetically- and truly innocent! Alive... A-life.
Regards when life should be recognized:
We have established that only UNION actives that unique genetic individual innocent life". It is only then that the precious New, "sacred life" has been established, blessed by God.
Hence, the scripture that says "I knew you since BEFORE you were in your mothers womb!" Again, Praise God!! Brother.
Consider this, He made his decision for You... Your small toes your small fingers your small beating heart... he knew who you were, where you were and how you are, today! He also knows where you are going.
You ...SirJosephPorter! The Lord be Praised!