Canada exports death in asbestos

mt_pockets1000

Council Member
Jun 22, 2006
1,292
29
48
Edmonton
Canada and a handful of other countries managed to keep chrysotile asbestos off the list of toxic substances at the Parties to the Rotterdam Convention, an international treaty governing trade in toxic substances.

Why does Canada still support the mining, export and foreign usage of this carcinogenic material when tests show how lethal asbestos fibres are to the human body? I'll tell you why. Quebec is a major producer of asbestos fibre and the industry is powerful enough to convince politicians in this country to oppose the addition of chrysotile asbestos to the list. It's a ploy by our politicians to buy votes in Quebec. Interestingly, asbestos use in Canada has declined dramatically since the early '80's. If the industry believes their product is so safe why are we not using it here in Canada?

Estimates put the number of people who die every year from asbestos related diseases at 90,000. My father-in-law was one of them. I knew a number of other miners who also suffered the same fate after working for years in a mine on the Baie Verte peninsula in NF.
Right now there's a registry set up in NF to track the health of some 2000 workers who worked the BV mine over the years. The cancer rate on the BV peninsula is well above the national average. A report on Thetford Mines in Quebec last year showed soil, air and dust samples to be 'severely contaminated'. Kids are actually using the tailing mounds as off-road sites, carving trails up and down the sides and spewing the toxic dust into the air and into their lungs. Yet we still allow the mining to go on.

Our governments should be pressured to bring in laws to cease the mining and export of chrysotile asbestos, get this substance onto the Rotterdam Convention list and bring some honour back to the country on this front.
 
  • Like
Reactions: EagleSmack

Scott Free

House Member
May 9, 2007
3,893
46
48
BC
Maybe people in other countries aren't children and they have a use for it?

Do we really have to treat everybody like retarded little monkeys?

It's bad enough we treat ourselves that way.
 

tanyaacatherine

New Member
Oct 21, 2008
2
0
1
Asbestos is a problem of politeness.Oh, it’s funny to be from a country that’s internationally renowned for being polite. Around here, if I accidentally bump into someone, we both apologize. So I don’t quite get why Canada, despite serious and angry international pressure, continues to defend asbestos.
------------------------
Moderator's Edit: Spam removed
 
Last edited by a moderator:

mt_pockets1000

Council Member
Jun 22, 2006
1,292
29
48
Edmonton
Maybe people in other countries aren't children and they have a use for it?

I would hope that some people in other countries are children. And some people in other countries are adults as well. And yes I'm sure they have a use for the product. After all it is a great fire retardant. But there are other products on the market that work just as well, and will not kill you in the process.

Do we really have to treat everybody like retarded little monkeys?

Question: would you let your kid drive his ATV up and down the side of an asbestos tailings site? Just curious, George....because only a retarded little monkey would allow such a thing.

It's bad enough we treat ourselves that way.

Speak for yourself man. Thankfully, there are still some of us out there who still have some pride in this land. This might seem trivial to you but in the eyes of the world Canada is not looking so good on this one.
 

Scott Free

House Member
May 9, 2007
3,893
46
48
BC
I would hope that some people in other countries are children. And some people in other countries are adults as well. And yes I'm sure they have a use for the product. After all it is a great fire retardant. But there are other products on the market that work just as well, and will not kill you in the process.

Why not let them decide what is safe or not for themselves? It's called freedom. You need to get your lips off of Oprah's @$$.


Question: would you let your kid drive his ATV up and down the side of an asbestos tailings site? Just curious, George....because only a retarded little monkey would allow such a thing.


What does that have to do with anything? Put the crack pipe down and back away

Speak for yourself man. Thankfully, there are still some of us out there who still have some pride in this land. This might seem trivial to you but in the eyes of the world Canada is not looking so good on this one.

We sell all kinds of things that aren't good for people if they don't use them right.!!!!!! Uranium, weapons, pesticide etc...

Stop letting the media set the agenda - try thinking for yourself.
 

mt_pockets1000

Council Member
Jun 22, 2006
1,292
29
48
Edmonton
Scott, you make as much sense as a 10 year old kid. Crack pipe? Oprah? Haha. Don't let the facts cloud your demented mind. Now go off and debate your religious topics or your state of the universe crap.
 

scratch

Senate Member
May 20, 2008
5,658
22
38
Scott, you make as much sense as a 10 year old kid. Crack pipe? Oprah? Haha. Don't let the facts cloud your demented mind. Now go off and debate your religious topics or your state of the universe crap.

IMO,

That's pretty heavy.
 

mt_pockets1000

Council Member
Jun 22, 2006
1,292
29
48
Edmonton
Sorry, I'm at work here and can't keep monitoring this one closely. I don't intend to let it die because the topic doesn't suit the normal psychobabble on CC.

Scott, you pointed out that Canada exports lots of things that aren't good for people like uranium, weapons, etc., especially if people don't use them right. These are all good points but I believe in tackling one problem at a time. And right now asbestos is in the spotlight. We'll deal with the other issues in due time. By the sounds of your argument you support the use of asbestos. Do you have a vested interest in the industry? Why defend it so vigorously? I've seen first hand the devastation this industry causes. I don't need Oprah or any media outlet to tell me otherwise. I will, however, listen to the advise of people who know what's going on. For those who care to read, take a look at this.
 

lone wolf

Grossly Underrated
Nov 25, 2006
32,493
210
63
In the bush near Sudbury
We have similar situations where workers are developing job-related cancers in the steel industry, nickel smelting, copper refining. We have people getting black lung from coal mining ... silicosis in the aggregates and concrete industries. Should these industries be closed down? What are people in Thetford going to do for work if the pits close? There comes a time when you have to weigh cost against benefit. Coat the tailings heaps with a stabilizer or vegetation. Wear air packs on the job. Life is a gamble. There's a market for the stuff among consumers who can't afford ten times the cost for synthetics. My guess is they have their own costs to weigh....
 

Twila

Nanah Potato
Mar 26, 2003
14,698
73
48
Most Americans don't know that asbestos remains a legal ingredient in more than 3000 products in the United States . Tens of thousands of tons of asbestos are unknowingly consumed in household products each year. No governmental labeling is required, notwithstanding the lethal nature of the product.

hmmm, seems its still legal in north america to, forget about it being only an export commodity.

here are over 3,000 known products that may contain asbestos. The following list identifies some of the commercially available products that may contain asbestos.

Adhesives

Appliance components

Automotive products
*Brake linings
*Brake pads
*Clutch plates

Ceilings Products
*Acoustical plaster
*Ceiling panels
*Ceiling texture (Popcorn texture)
*Ceiling tiles
*Ceiling tile mastic

Cement-asbestos board (Transite) products
*Chimney flue lining
*Ducts
*Pipes
*Shingles
*Siding
*Wall panels

Chalkboards

Electrical products
*Cloth wire insulation
*Electrical breakers
*Electrical panel arc chutes
*Electrical panel partitions
*Electrical panels
*Insulating cloth

Fire protection products
*Fire blankets
*Fire curtains
*Fire doors
*Spray-on fireproofing

More from:

http://www.health.state.mn.us/.../index.html
Wow!
 

Twila

Nanah Potato
Mar 26, 2003
14,698
73
48
Wanna know something else equally outrageous?

fire retardant used all over North America containes carcinogenic properties. PBDE's. Scary stuff.

How about those cleaning products you use in your home, air fresheners you spray around. bad bad bad.
 

Scott Free

House Member
May 9, 2007
3,893
46
48
BC
Scott, you pointed out that Canada exports lots of things that aren't good for people like uranium, weapons, etc., especially if people don't use them right. These are all good points but I believe in tackling one problem at a time. And right now asbestos is in the spotlight.

They are only in the spotlight because they do not have a large enough lobby or some reporter is trying to create a narrative wherein the uncaring titans of industry don't care how their poison is being used.

Do you even have any evidence it is being misused or that the producers don't care how it is being used?

We'll deal with the other issues in due time.

I really wish that were true but I see no evidence for your claim. The Canadian public allows the elite to set the agenda and control the conversation through the media. No topic can be a topic in Canada unless the media participates (and thereby the elite). That is just a fact.

By the sounds of your argument you support the use of asbestos.

No, by my argument I don't think I have the right to dictate to other people how they should live. Especially people in other countries!!! How arrogant that would be!

Do you have a vested interest in the industry? Why defend it so vigorously?

I have a vested interest in freedom. Everyday the media and political monstrosity we call government work together and that symbioses restricts what we can do. Everyday they create more and more useless laws based on panic, fear, stupidity and arrogant self indulgent righteousness (something Canada has far too much of).

I've seen first hand the devastation this industry causes.

Anything can be bad for you if you don't use it properly - so what? Why not say we can't export trees, milk, bullets, petroleum, oil, fish, wheat, pesticides, guns, electronics, alcohol etc... absolutely everything is dangerous in the wrong hands.

I don't need Oprah or any media outlet to tell me otherwise. I will, however, listen to the advise of people who know what's going on. For those who care to read, take a look at this.

But listening to advice isn't what your advocating. Your arrogently saying that your oppinion should be forced on people in other nations.

If you really mean what your saying then any product we ship out of Canada should have a warning sheet, a writeup on how the item can be missused, and I would agree with you.

That isn't what your saying however, your talking about destroying an industry because you can't think your way out of a wet paper bag. That you have bought into the narrative that all people need to be protected from themselves. That is a slippery slope with absolutely no end in sight.

What's next? Ban salt? Fat? no more exporting rocks because some people throw them? A knife registry?

Seriously buddy, turn Oprah off while you still can.
 

mt_pockets1000

Council Member
Jun 22, 2006
1,292
29
48
Edmonton
We have similar situations where workers are developing job-related cancers in the steel industry, nickel smelting, copper refining. We have people getting black lung from coal mining ... silicosis in the aggregates and concrete industries. Should these industries be closed down? What are people in Thetford going to do for work if the pits close? There comes a time when you have to weigh cost against benefit. Coat the tailings heaps with a stabilizer or vegetation. Wear air packs on the job. Life is a gamble. There's a market for the stuff among consumers who can't afford ten times the cost for synthetics. My guess is they have their own costs to weigh....

Yes LW, and each one of these examples you give are alarming enough in themselves. Does that mean we sit back and let the companies expose our miners to dangerous working conditions without bringing it to the forefront?

Well lets see...how should we handle the people in Thetford if the mine closes. How about they move along just like the people in Baie Verte did when the mine closed there? It's expected that if an atlantic canadian loses his job he moves on to Alberta. What's good for the goose....yadayadayada. I'm being sarcastic of course. I would never wish anyone to have to pull up roots and leave family and friends behind. The cost of human lives against the benefit to a companies bottom line? These days the company wins out I'm afraid.

As for coating the tailings, yeah perhaps the feds or some governmental agency or the mine owners can coat the tailings, perhaps fence it off to keep kids out. The tailings in Baie Verte are very close to the highway where people come and go regularly. The winds whip the tailings dust up constantly. The trees in a wide radius around the mine site are stunted and dead. The lakes are dead or greatly depleted of fish and plant life.

Life is a gamble for sure but why lessen the odds by putting yourself in harms way.
 

mt_pockets1000

Council Member
Jun 22, 2006
1,292
29
48
Edmonton
Scott, how can I debate with a mind that is so jaded and suspicious of everything around them? You are obviously set in your mind about this issue and that's all well and good. Is it too much to ask that you refrain from the name calling? The hackles on the back of my neck need to lay down and rest.

The whole world knows the dangers of asbestos. Try doing renovations on a building that contains asbestos in the ceiling or walls. Before anything can be done on that building the ministry of the environment has to send in a team to clean up the material. This team is dressed head to toe in body gear and respirators. Only when the last fragment of asbestos is removed and the air is clean of dust can the contractor go in and finish the renovations. This stuff is treated like toxic waste and that's exactly what it is. This industry is already dead, along with it's victims. Canada just refuses to let it rest in peace.

By the way, I find Oprah hot...and she's rich. I just don't watch her show.
 

lone wolf

Grossly Underrated
Nov 25, 2006
32,493
210
63
In the bush near Sudbury
Yes LW, and each one of these examples you give are alarming enough in themselves. Does that mean we sit back and let the companies expose our miners to dangerous working conditions without bringing it to the forefront?

Well lets see...how should we handle the people in Thetford if the mine closes. How about they move along just like the people in Baie Verte did when the mine closed there? It's expected that if an atlantic canadian loses his job he moves on to Alberta. What's good for the goose....yadayadayada. I'm being sarcastic of course. I would never wish anyone to have to pull up roots and leave family and friends behind. The cost of human lives against the benefit to a companies bottom line? These days the company wins out I'm afraid.

As for coating the tailings, yeah perhaps the feds or some governmental agency or the mine owners can coat the tailings, perhaps fence it off to keep kids out. The tailings in Baie Verte are very close to the highway where people come and go regularly. The winds whip the tailings dust up constantly. The trees in a wide radius around the mine site are stunted and dead. The lakes are dead or greatly depleted of fish and plant life.

Life is a gamble for sure but why lessen the odds by putting yourself in harms way.

It looked like the surface of the moon around here... what with sulphur dioxide and nickel oxide emissions from four or five different smelting operations around Sudbury. It was even said the Apollo astronauts trained here before their missions because of the appearance. The fact is it was to learn how to spot occlusions in a meteor crater. 40 years, tons of limestone and many hours of tree planting later, Sudbury is greening. We still have the legacies of cancer and lung ailments. People aren't going to stop using nickel any time soon. I don't know enough about asbestos to suggest the same can be done there - but it's worth studying. You're not going to make it any less the carcinogen, but as long as there is a market, someone is supply the need and someone is going to make money from it. They're the ones who should be kicking in on health care and land reclamation ... just like Inco and Falconbridge (Vale Inco and Xtrada now) do here.
 
Last edited:

Scott Free

House Member
May 9, 2007
3,893
46
48
BC
Scott, how can I debate with a mind that is so jaded and suspicious of everything around them?

To the gullible that is how I look - yes, it's true, I admit it.

You are obviously set in your mind about this issue and that's all well and good.

I'm not actually. I'm hoping for a solid argument from you. I'm always looking for a good argument.

Is it too much to ask that you refrain from the name calling? The hackles on the back of my neck need to lay down and rest.

Um... I can try but if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck... it's probably a ... well you get the idea. ;-)

The whole world knows the dangers of asbestos. Try doing renovations on a building that contains asbestos in the ceiling or walls. Before anything can be done on that building the ministry of the environment has to send in a team to clean up the material. This team is dressed head to toe in body gear and respirators. Only when the last fragment of asbestos is removed and the air is clean of dust can the contractor go in and finish the renovations. This stuff is treated like toxic waste and that's exactly what it is. This industry is already dead, along with it's victims. Canada just refuses to let it rest in peace.

Canada has always been about creating industries. The building codes your talking about are meant to create jobs. They have little or nothing to do with safety except in very specific circumstances that shouldn't be arbitrarily applied except to create industry. The asbestos panic was milked to create new jobs and it worked.

No I don't mean the stuff is safe either... :roll:

By the way, I find Oprah hot...and she's rich. I just don't watch her show.

But you buy into her liberal humanist faminazi agenda.
 

mt_pockets1000

Council Member
Jun 22, 2006
1,292
29
48
Edmonton
How do you bring it to the forefront when it seems there are people with the power to deny?

http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/news/story.html?id=7dcab081-6589-4eca-ad1c-25231934dc7e

A quick scour around the internet and you'll find plenty of similar news articles from around the world. The mayor of Thetford may claim there's no risk but people are waking up to the reality of asbestos and it's harmful effects.

By the way, how can we cry foul when China exports melamine laden milk products or tainted dog food to our shores when we turn around and send a cacinogenic product like asbestos to far flung regions of the earth?