Australian Court Grants 12 yr old Girl Right to Transition

karrie

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Judge gives girl, 12, go-ahead to change sex

By Nick Squires in Sydney
Last Updated: 12:22AM BST 26/05/2008
A judge has provoked controversy in Australia by ruling that a 12-year-old girl could begin the first phase of a sex change.

The unnamed girl has begun hormone treatment to block puberty after a judge accepted an application from her mother for her to begin to reassign her gender.
A family court judgment said it was important to act quickly to prevent the onset of puberty as the girl dreaded the prospect of menstruation and developing breasts, and had threatened self-harm.
It was reported yesterday that during a hearing in December, the court heard that the girl from Victoria had thought of herself as a boy since the age of four. Several medical experts, including a psychiatrist, backed her application for a sex change.


full article
 

karrie

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Transgendered people are notoriously at high risk of self injury due to being trapped in a body they don't like. She's not unique in that.

I wonder if her parents understand how lucky they are that she can express that, rather than just following through with it without ever saying anything like so many suicides and self injury cases.
 

MikeyDB

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Since every newborn human being presents as female until the third trimester, it seems entirely possible that people not experiencing the expression of the necessary hormone and amino acid precursors that determine gender would have a terribly difficult time coming to terms with their "gender role" when at a subconscious level, their phisiological gender-condition is questionable. I have no idea what it would feel like to experience the bombardment of estrogen that a female human being feels and I'm open to the possibility that an ostensibly "female" child would be similarly confused and frightened by the influences and feelings that would develop in this child when testosterone produced effects throw the body into imbalance and anger..... That a child threatens to hurt her/himself is serious in and of itself, but if the evidence available suggests that the vulnerable emotional and cognitive condition of the child is attributable to hormone and neuropeptide imbalances as expression of confused gender development, it comes as no surprise.
 

Praxius

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Dec 18, 2007
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Transgendered people are notoriously at high risk of self injury due to being trapped in a body they don't like. She's not unique in that.

I wonder if her parents understand how lucky they are that she can express that, rather than just following through with it without ever saying anything like so many suicides and self injury cases.

I know, I was just kinda pointing out how it was worded.... just didn't sound right.

Other then that I ain't got a beef in this article... doing it before puberty is a wise idea, although that opens up another big mess of a debate which I won't get into at this point in time.
 

hermanntrude

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Jun 23, 2006
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i havent read the full article, but it is entirely possible that this girl is one of the many people born with indeterminate gender and quickly surgically altered to fit one gender or the other. Usually this means that they're "made" into females, since that's the easier process. It often results in a male mind with female parts.

I wonder, though... it's possible to be indeterminate in actual physical sex... but is it possible to have a mind which isn't obviously male or female?
 

Praxius

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Dec 18, 2007
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Since every newborn human being presents as female until the third trimester,

That one part I have to disagree with. Every fetus's genitals up until the 3rd appear to be both male and female, as the scrotum/labia and clitoris/penis stay in their neutral positions.... the scrotum/labia appears to be too tucked into the body to look like a scrotum, yet bulges out too much to be claimed a labia, and the penis/clitoris is too stout to be considdered as much as a penis, but extends too far out to be identified exactly as a clitoris.

If anything, our genitals up to a certain stage of development are more a combination of the two, rather then appearing as just one or the other. Testicles can become ovaries, and ovaries can become testicles.... what happens to the mind in between these processes remains a question.

it seems entirely possible that people not experiencing the expression of the necessary hormone and amino acid precursors that determine gender would have a terribly difficult time coming to terms with their "gender role" when at a subconscious level, their phisiological gender-condition is questionable. I have no idea what it would feel like to experience the bombardment of estrogen that a female human being feels and I'm open to the possibility that an ostensibly "female" child would be similarly confused and frightened by the influences and feelings that would develop in this child when testosterone produced effects throw the body into imbalance and anger..... That a child threatens to hurt her/himself is serious in and of itself, but if the evidence available suggests that the vulnerable emotional and cognitive condition of the child is attributable to hormone and neuropeptide imbalances as expression of confused gender development, it comes as no surprise.

Although I agree with most of that, one thing I picked up on and I would like to point out is that although the child in question maybe threatening to do harm to themselves unless they get this treatment, do they realize just how much more work is going to be needed throughout their lives after they go through with this? There is no guarantee that this operation/proceedure will actually help the child mentally, and I am pretty sure there's very little chance of reversing the treatments after they have been made.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is in relation to the chances that this procedure might not make them better and might actually make them worse. I know most who get the procedure done are usually adults who are of some sound mind and know what it takes to commit to something. As the child, is this individual prepared for the regaular hormone therapies, the scarring, and other drastic changes they will need to go through throughout (probably) the rest of their lives? Does the child understand that this operation isn't an absolute and technically you're still not exactly the gender you wish to be?

In both ways the decisions may go, the consequences are equally serious. Many people who feel they're the wrong gender claim that they are willing to make those sacrafices in order to come that much close to the person they feel they are..... but what about a child? Do they understand the consequences they are about to have thrown at them for this decision? Sure they may make the exact same decision when they are older and an adult.... but the complications, the medications, the pain and scarring that occurs during this type of procedure... are they actually prepared for this, and would that alone cause them to have the same thoughts of harming themselves as it would not getting the procedure?

What I'm getting at is that I am hoping this operation isn't being done mainly because the child is threatening to harm him/herself, as many other aspects in life could still make them feel like they want to harm themselfs regardless..... such as dealing with the above mentioned, dealing with classmates who know of what occured to you, etc....
 

karrie

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This whole thing is beyond sick. It's criminal.. By people who have lost all sense of a natural law and order of things.

nature screws things up all the time, and humanity has to fix it. There is an actual biological, hormonal basis during the fetal stage, to the vast majority of transgendered cases. Nature did that. Now man is just fixing what nature wrought.
 

I think not

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nature screws things up all the time, and humanity has to fix it. There is an actual biological, hormonal basis during the fetal stage, to the vast majority of transgendered cases. Nature did that. Now man is just fixing what nature wrought.

Sort of like climate change, or is that the other way around? ;-)

On a more serious note, I have a hard time swallowing pshyco analysis on a 12 year old kid. Considering the age of this kid and the years of procedures and therapy involved, shouldn't this wait a little more?
 

karrie

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Sort of like climate change, or is that the other way around? ;-)

On a more serious note, I have a hard time swallowing pshyco analysis on a 12 year old kid. Considering the age of this kid and the years of procedures and therapy involved, shouldn't this wait a little more?

Considering the young age at which most transgendered individuals can attest to knowing they were different, and the lack of psychiatry's ability to 'fix' them into straight people, I don't think it's early at all for the irreversible aspects. The court ruled no surgeries until she is 18. I think it's a reasonable path to take in light of her terror.
 

Risus

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May 24, 2006
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Considering the young age at which most transgendered individuals can attest to knowing they were different, and the lack of psychiatry's ability to 'fix' them into straight people, I don't think it's early at all for the irreversible aspects. The court ruled no surgeries until she is 18. I think it's a reasonable path to take in light of her terror.

Her terror?? What terror? Give me a break! It all sounds like BS to me.
 

coldstream

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Oct 19, 2005
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nature screws things up all the time, and humanity has to fix it. There is an actual biological, hormonal basis during the fetal stage, to the vast majority of transgendered cases. Nature did that. Now man is just fixing what nature wrought.

Although it now politically incorrect to quote anything except the gospel of secular humanism. i'll post this
Genesis 1:27 - So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Nature gets things screwed up occaisionally, as do all of us creatures, but God doesn't.Careful on whose Feet you are tredding.:smile:
 

karrie

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Jan 6, 2007
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Although it now politically incorrect to quote anything except the gospel of secular humanism. i'll post this
Genesis 1:27 - So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Nature gets things screwed up occaisionally, as do all of us creatures, but God doesn't.Careful on whose Feet you are tredding.:smile:

Why would that be treading on God's feet coldstream? Male and Female, He created them. Why would correcting a natural mistake be treading on his feet, if each was created by Him? Each gender is equal. Each is as blessed. Why would it be treading on His feet to return a soul to a state of calm and peace and wholeness? God may build a soul, but a body is born of nature, thus our capacity for sin. As you agreed, nature messes up sometimes. Why should we ignore that given the tools we have at hand?
 

Zzarchov

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Aug 28, 2006
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I should hope correcting physical flaws isn't a sin, my wife is awful fond of her glasses, then again...if she couldn't see as clearly I could really let myself go...
 

lone wolf

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Although it now politically incorrect to quote anything except the gospel of secular humanism. i'll post this
Genesis 1:27 - So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Nature gets things screwed up occaisionally, as do all of us creatures, but God doesn't.Careful on whose Feet you are tredding.:smile:


Whose God?

Woof!