Nation may lose £3.5m Shakespeare first edition


Blackleaf
#1
The Sunday Times July 09, 2006


Nation may lose £3.5m Shakespeare first edition
Richard Brooks, Arts Editor




A RARE first edition of Shakespeare’s complete plays is expected to sell for more than £3.5m at auction this week but could end up leaving Britain.

The compendium of 36 plays is being sold at Sotheby’s by Dr Williams’s Library in central London to raise funds to secure its future.

Few potential buyers in Britain are likely to be able to afford the book, printed in 1623 and one of the most complete copies of the first folio still in existence. Sotheby’s, the auctioneer, expects it to sell for between £3.5m and £5m.

“The frontrunners are the Japanese,” said Jonathan Bate, professor of Shakespeare studies at Warwick University. “Maybe an institution there or possibly an individual. But there’s really nobody who can afford it in Britain.”

Although 750 copies of the folio were originally printed in 1623, seven years after Shakespeare’s death, only about 220 survive and many of them are incomplete.

Eighteen of the plays in the folio had never before been printed. They include Macbeth, Twelfth Night, Antony and Cleopatra, The Tempest, and As You Like It.

Shakespeare himself never authorised the publication or printing of any of his plays. They were sold by the playwright to his acting company, the Lord Chamberlain’s Men, later called the King’s Men, who then released them.

The number of first folios in Britain is fewer than 30. The British Library has five and the Bodleian Library in Oxford has one. Others are owned by the Royal Shakespeare Company, the Shakespeare Birthplace Trust and the family of the late Sir John Paul Getty. He bought it in 2003 from Oriel College, Oxford, for £3.5m just six weeks before his death. The billionaire Paul Allen, co-founder of Microsoft, is also a recent buyer of a first folio.

Several folios contain handwritten comments by readers. “They tell us what people knew about Shakespeare and his reputation at the time,” said Kate McLuskie, director of the Shakespeare Institute.

The folio on sale this week retains its mid-17th-century binding of plain brown calf-skin. It is even more important because of its extensive markings and annotations by readers of the era. “The markings and the selection of the text that they signal are a major addition to this first folio,” said Peter Beal, an expert in English manuscripts.

Dr Williams’s Library, the leading research library for English Protestant dissent, has owned the first folio from at least 1716, the longest uninterrupted library ownership of any surviving example.

The Rev Dr Daniel Williams, a Protestant dissenting minister, bought the book as part of the library of Dr William Bates, another nonconformist cleric, for £500.

Dr Bates’s interest in the folio may have been influenced by the Puritan regime’s ban on all stage performances from 1642 until the Restoration of the Monarchy in 1660, a unique occurrence in the theatre.

The last comparable first folio was sold by Christie’s in New York in 2001 for a hammer price of $5.6m, about £3m at current exchange rates.

timesonline.co.uk
 
Finder
#2
Capitalism is bitter sweat. Sweat when you profit or your nation does, like removing eygption and Greek ancient history but bitter when you lose your own.
 
Daz_Hockey
#3
Quote: Originally Posted by Finder

Capitalism is bitter sweat. Sweat when you profit or your nation does, like removing eygption and Greek ancient history but bitter when you lose your own.

never was there a more blaitent but vailed reference to the ill's of the british empire lol
 
Finder
#4
history bites.


Anyhow I personally believe (yeah I know whatever), that something like this should be a national treasure for the UK.
 
I think not
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by Finder

history bites.


Anyhow I personally believe (yeah I know whatever), that something like this should be a national treasure for the UK.

The British Museum is full of other nations treasures, and I assure you, they weren't a gift.

I'd call it poetic justice, or as Shakespeare said, "Good night, good night! Parting is such sweet sorrow"
 
Finder
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by I think not

Quote: Originally Posted by Finder

history bites.


Anyhow I personally believe (yeah I know whatever), that something like this should be a national treasure for the UK.

The British Museum is full of other nations treasures, and I assure you, they weren't a gift.

I'd call it poetic justice, or as Shakespeare said, "Good night, good night! Parting is such sweet sorrow"

Thats what I was eluding too in my first post ITN, but thanks for pointing it out. But with saying that, an eye for an eye leaves everyone blind as the saying goes. Losing history really bites and that goes for anyone be it Greek or British. How can you really put a price on something this historic and widly read?

It would be like someone selling the American Liberty bell! Our the decleration of indp
 
I think not
#7
That'll never happen, we don't have thousands of years of history, but the little that we have, we cherish.

Actually, I'm quite shocked the Brits are even allowing something like this to happen.

And forgive me for being blunt, but I have been to the British Museum and have seen what treasures are there, it's amazing they call it the "British" museum, the only thing "British" in there is the smugness. A "token" compensation was never even on their radar screen, they stole everything.

And fine, history is history, you cannot possibly condemn a people for prior generation ****ups, what's the excuse today? They actually think they've earned it?
 
Daz_Hockey
#8
Have any of you actually been to any of the free Museum's in Washington?. I have, and I'm pretty sure a fair bit of that wasn't originally from the US, or bought from other countries...but in fact simply "removed".

Take the National Museum of art in DC, it's got originals of Romulous and Remus sucking at a wolf's teet coming from Italy circa 1943....now your not telling me THAT wasnt liberated too?.

All I'm saying is we all do it, every country in the world, and actually, for example, the US Army "liberated" lots of Art from the Nazi's who inturn "liberated" it from the jews and so on and so on.....doesnt make it right, but it just shows everyone does it.

If Britain loses this Shakespeare it will be no-one's fault but Britain, and if you look at the context for which half the antiques in most of the worlds museums come from it's basically the same.
 
I think not
#9
Yes I have, I have also been to the Met and other museums that have treasures from other countries. But again, as usual, you missed the point. Under the British Empire it was encouraged to "relocate" artifacts under the guise of "protecting them from "incapable" populations, I hope the racism didn't go over your head, or was that British smugness?

Looters have sold artifacts all over the world, nobody is denying this, and the museums buy it, but, perhaps the tide has turned? I wonder what the British Museum has to say?

Here's an article I think you will find interesting.

Met to Return Disputed Art to Italy (external - login to view)
 
athabaska
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by Finder

Capitalism is bitter sweat. Sweat when you profit or your nation does, like removing eygption and Greek ancient history but bitter when you lose your own.

Also my first reaction. Next thing you know the Brits will be complaining about immigrants not integrating into the British culture...unlike all those English who governed India, all learned Hindi, had theirwives wear Saris, converted to Hindu , became vegetarians and gave up cricket, polo and other English culture my. oh, my...all those 'foreigners' come to England and have the nerve to be more Indian than English.
 
Daz_Hockey
#11
indeed, but seriously?..."british smugness"?, while in a hostel in NY, me and a few Aussie mates were sat down listerning to a teacher explain to his pupil's about "the british", Dan, and Aussie politely pointed out to him "British?, whats that then?, English, Scottish, Welsh or Irish?"...and he replied "oh well, british, it's all the same to use".....lovely, the aussies wernt impressed.

My point is that, that is also smugness, american smugness and ignorance coming from an american English teacher....works both ways see.

But I agree, the british empire did take artifacts from the people they believed were incapable of protecting them, but so did the french and americans in their day, how about all the Egyption stuff in the Louve?.....Once again, if the orginal country it belonged to requested it back, sure Britain or whoever else should give it back, without question.

All I am saying is that 1. Britain wasnt the only government sponsored looters. 2. It goes back to the old arguement of what was acceptable then and what is now.
 
Daz_Hockey
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by athabaska

Quote: Originally Posted by Finder

Capitalism is bitter sweat. Sweat when you profit or your nation does, like removing eygption and Greek ancient history but bitter when you lose your own.

Also my first reaction. Next thing you know the Brits will be complaining about immigrants not integrating into the British culture...unlike all those English who governed India, all learned Hindi, had theirwives wear Saris, converted to Hindu , became vegetarians and gave up cricket, polo and other English culture my. oh, my...all those 'foreigners' come to England and have the nerve to be more Indian than English.

I will treat that with the contempt it deserves, Britain has never suggested removing it's ethnic minorities like certain other coutries, Britain is actually one of the softest most PC nations on the planet, were the 9/11 bombers all born in the US? NO, Britain ALLOWED them to preach their Hatred and it was that hatred that killed a friend of mine so please keep your pissin stupid ideas of british non-integration to yourself.

Britain is an integrated society...not a melting pot
 
fuflans
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by I think not

And forgive me for being blunt, but I have been to the British Museum and have seen what treasures are there, it's amazing they call it the "British" museum, the only thing "British" in there is the smugness. A "token" compensation was never even on their radar screen, they stole everything

It's too bad that most people only associate the British Museum with its the Greek/Roman/Egyptian etc. collections. Their 'British' (or whatever you want to call it) collection is also very large and impressive. Maybe not as interesting to the average tourist, though.

Having said that, you're of course correct that the way many of the world's museums acquired their prize artifacts was 'shady' to say the least.

If you're interested in the Met scandal, you should read The Medici Conspiracy by Peter Watson and Cecilia Todeschini.

By the way, once I achieve my career goal of becoming an eccentric millionaire, buying a Shakespeare folio is on my list of things to do (along with buying all the tea in China and challenging somebody to a race around the world in old time-y hot air balloons)
 
I think not
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by Daz_Hockey

Britain is an integrated society...not a melting pot

They are both the same, and no you aren't. Just like we fully aren't, but you are much much better than anything in Europe.
 
I think not
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by fuflans

It's too bad that most people only associate the British Museum with its the Greek/Roman/Egyptian etc. collections. Their 'British' (or whatever you want to call it) collection is also very large and impressive. Maybe not as interesting to the average tourist, though.

Well I stand guilty as charged on that, I really found nothing interesting in the British section, although believe it or not I found the museum of Tea and Coffee intersting lol.
 
Daz_Hockey
#16
indeed, I still think were more integrated or rather more PC than most of north america too. But as I say, I dont know how activly these museums should seek to return the objects of questionable origins, but if asked they should certainly return them.

Sorry that was a sore point with me, it being 3 days since the year anniversary of my friend's death in London, and to suggest that indians or asians are not welcome or allowed to keep their culture in england or britain is wrong, you've been there, it's sometimes more like Mumbai in places than say london
 
I think not
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by Daz_Hockey

indeed, but seriously?..."british smugness"?, while in a hostel in NY, me and a few Aussie mates were sat down listerning to a teacher explain to his pupil's about "the british", Dan, and Aussie politely pointed out to him "British?, whats that then?, English, Scottish, Welsh or Irish?"...and he replied "oh well, british, it's all the same to use".....lovely, the aussies wernt impressed.

My point is that, that is also smugness, american smugness and ignorance coming from an american English teacher....works both ways see.

But I agree, the british empire did take artifacts from the people they believed were incapable of protecting them, but so did the french and americans in their day, how about all the Egyption stuff in the Louve?.....Once again, if the orginal country it belonged to requested it back, sure Britain or whoever else should give it back, without question.

All I am saying is that 1. Britain wasnt the only government sponsored looters. 2. It goes back to the old arguement of what was acceptable then and what is now.

Daz I know you hate the word Brits, but lets face it, you weren't called the British Empire for nothing, and I only speak in terms of history, no slant intended on todays people in Britain.

Just dump you monarchy
 
Daz_Hockey
#18
I found the Wellsley paintings next to Napoleon Bonaparte in the national art gallery in DC rather funny........Bonney or th iron duke would turn in their graves
 
athabaska
#19
I liked the Maritime Museum. Especially the part of how th British travelled around the world and were 'welcomed' by the various heathens who were eager to be dominated and enslaved for their own good via White man's burden.
 
Daz_Hockey
#20
yeah cus britain was the worst at that one, perhaps you should ask an american soldier who served in Vietnam if they could eleborate on all the french guiloteans found in use until the mid '60's.

Every country was the same in that age, some were much worse, some were a little better, but frankly the British were one of the "better" one's...ask the Algeria or perhaps french indo china
 
I think not
#21
Shhh, don't say French when Blakleaf is around. He'll never shut up.
 
Daz_Hockey
#22
But you know what I mean, keeping on about the british empire and the way they treated other countries is fine and well...but you have to look at it in the context and time it was in.

I'm not ashamed to say my country once had the biggest empire the world has ever known, not entirely built on slavery or the threat of WMD's....I just simply get touchy when people bang on about how bad they were...ok the other way too...i.e. Master Blackleaf, but I refuse to accept people like my great-grand parents were evil wicked colonialists because they were british in the zenith of the british empire...it simply wasnt like being german during the second world war.

you know what I mean right?
 
I think not
#23
Yes Daz I know what you mean, but you complain about this, and I have to sit here reading peoples crap about the US in 1776 (hell even before that, for some) through today and what f.uckups the US has in store for us in the future.

It's as if change of govenrments and people never happen, it's just a string of endless corruption, greed and interests.

Yes I know exactly what you mean.
 
Daz_Hockey
#24
very true.....

I think it's maybe a clash of cultures

I agree, I just think that there is a side of history that seems somewhat in the closet, the british view of the independence war for example, I mean, your taught about it, it's something historians over here shy away from, although I think they shouldnt, for example how each succesive british prime-minister was against the war and how our King was on the same powertrip we tried to stop in the magna carta.

Did you know the british school system has only JUST allowed for the teaching of the british empire?, I think why people like myself and blackleaf bang on about this nonsense is that it's a bit of a taboo subject here.

as I say, sorry about that...........Although, here's something local to me that might interest you, my town, southampton, until recently had a HUGE memorial errected where the Mayflower and the pilgrims left for the new world from the west quay docks in southampton...it's just been destroyed to make way for a shopping complex on the quay........thats a decent example of greed and self interest....shameful really, I just hope they dont do the same to the titanic or Benny Hill memorials!!!
 
I think not
#25
No, I had no idea they tore down the memorial, I do remember reading about it though. We have a titanic memorial in Manhattan also, about 60 feet high, if I remember correctly.

It's funny you mentioned the Mayflower, I just bought a book on it.
 
Daz_Hockey
#26
yep here it is....or was:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:S...erMemorial.jpg

Our Titanic Memorial has 2 sailors who look like they are trying to lock some sort of gates with 2 lists of the dead next to em.

yeah people in my town get a bit frustrated when people state that the mayflower sailed from playmouth, when in fact it only stopped at plymouth for repairs.

I am pleased theyve finally got round to erecting a statue of old Benny Hill though.....perhaps they shouldnt bother with the craig David or Drummer from Coldplay though lol
 
Blackleaf
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by Daz_Hockey

very true.....

I think it's maybe a clash of cultures

I agree, I just think that there is a side of history that seems somewhat in the closet, the british view of the independence war for example, I mean, your taught about it,

No, they aren't. The Yankee Doodle Dandies are taught the War of Independence with an American bias - such as how they were the heroes fighting against "oppression" (when they lived better than we did) and how they won every single battle during the war (when, in fact, the Americans lost around two thirds of the battles fought against the mightiest and richest power on Earth).
 
Blackleaf
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by I think not

Quote: Originally Posted by Finder

history bites.


Anyhow I personally believe (yeah I know whatever), that something like this should be a national treasure for the UK.

The British Museum is full of other nations treasures, and I assure you, they weren't a gift.

You're a fine one to talk.

Are people trying to say that there are NO artefacts in any museum in the WHOLE of North America (which is quite a large area) that doesn't have any treasures of Ancient Egypt, Rome, Greece or any other place outside of North America? If that's the case, I'd better not visit your museums, otherwise the only items of "history" that we'd see on display are objects dating from the 1920s.

Is Britain the only place whose museums have artefacts from outside our country?
 
Blackleaf
#29
Shakespeare first edition sells for £2.8m
13th July 2006





A historic First Folio edition of Shakespeare's plays was today snapped up by a book dealer for £2.8 million at auction.

The "remarkably untouched" 17th Century volume, which probably cost just 20 shillings when printed in 1623, went under the hammer at Sotheby's in London.

A Sotheby's spokeswoman said the lot was bought by a "London book dealer" and added that the sale price of £2,808,000 had included the buyer's premium.

About 750 copies of the First Folio - which has been described as the most important book in English literature - were originally printed.

However, only about a third of them have survived to the present day and most of those are incomplete.

The First Folio, published just seven years after the Bard's death, contains 36 plays, 18 of which had never previously been printed.

Experts believe those 18 plays - including Macbeth, Twelfth Night and Julius Caesar - may have been "lost to posterity" were it not for their appearance in the First Folio.

The copy on sale today was described as one of the "two finest" to appear at auction in London since the Second World War.

It was sold alongside other lots at Sotheby's sale of English literature and history in New Bond Street.

dailymail.co.uk
 
Blackleaf
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by Daz_Hockey




yeah people in my town get a bit frustrated when people state that the mayflower sailed from playmouth, when in fact it only stopped at plymouth for repairs.

The Mayflower sailed from Plymouth, as you should have been taught in school. That's why the colony that it created in Massachussetts became known as Plymouth.

As it says in Wikipedia -


The Mayflower was the ship that transported the Pilgrims from Plymouth, England, to Plymouth Colony, Massachusetts, in what would become the United States, in 1620. It left Plymouth on September 6 and dropped anchor near Cape Cod on November 11 (both dates according to the Old Style, the Julian Calendar). This voyage was inspired by the successful establishment of the first permanent English settlement, Jamestown (named after King James I), by the London Company of Virginia in 1607.



The Mayflower is also the emblem of the football team Plymouth Argyle, whose nickname is "The Pilgrims."
 

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