#1Oct 17th, 2005
interesting. Will this make everyone "happy" now??
Stem Cells with ethics.
#2
RE: Stem Cells with ethic
Oct 17th, 2005
It's really a non-issue, Ocena. If the US wants to lag behind the rest of the world on scientific research because they elected a president who thinks everybody should follow his peculiar religious beliefs, then let them lag behind.
#3
Re: RE: Stem Cells with ethic
Oct 17th, 2005Quote: Originally Posted by Reverend Blair
It's really a non-issue, Ocena. If the US wants to lag behind the rest of the world on scientific research because they elected a president who thinks everybody should follow his peculiar religious beliefs, then let them lag behind.
agree.!!--------as long as they keep it (their lagging and religiosity ) within their own borders. Plus keep their big yaps shut about how other nations are doing things...
#4
Re: Stem Cells with ethics.
Oct 17th, 2005Quote:
Unfortunately it doesn't look like they intend to keep their religiosity within there own borders OR refrain from complaining about how other nations are doing things.agree.!!--------as long as they keep it (their lagging and religiosity ) within their own borders. Plus keep their big yaps shut about how other nations are doing things...
#5
Re: Stem Cells with ethics.
Oct 17th, 2005Quote: Originally Posted by Andygal
Quote:Unfortunately it doesn't look like they intend to keep their religiosity within there own borders OR refrain from complaining about how other nations are doing things.agree.!!--------as long as they keep it (their lagging and religiosity ) within their own borders. Plus keep their big yaps shut about how other nations are doing things...
indeed. "they" are determined to drag everyone down their neo con cesspool with them.----if they have to KILL them to do it.
It boggles that they are getting away with as much as they are!! (or are they??)Maybe (hopefully) soon more countries will start to stand up to them.
Anyhow......hope the Stem cell research proves productive for some of the more troubling/devestating health problems soon.
just imagine ......IF all that money spent on warring (USR) had been spent on MEDICAL RESEARCH..........and EDUCATION. (and poverty aleviation......within the US for starters )
#6
RE: Stem Cells with ethic
Oct 17th, 2005
If Canada stands with the EU on this issue, the US will be left behind. The fact is that they are being told to piss off more and more. Brazil did it over AIDS funding restrictions, Venezuela does it over pretty much everything. If those two countries can do it, then so can Canada.
#7
Re: RE: Stem Cells with ethic
Oct 17th, 2005Quote: Originally Posted by Reverend Blair
absolutely! rev. If Canada stands with the EU on this issue, the US will be left behind. The fact is that they are being told to piss off more and more. Brazil did it over AIDS funding restrictions, Venezuela does it over pretty much everything. If those two countries can do it, then so can Canada.
just hope Martin has the cajones to do it. ......and I think if pressed , he does.
the most constructive thing that can happen is give the US what is wants. Isolation. Form new aliances. A closer CA-European relationship is a very good idea. Canada was built by people from Europe. Remembering and relishing the roots is important too. Otherwise it becomes a synthetic society.
#8
Re: RE: Stem Cells with ethic
Oct 17th, 2005Quote: Originally Posted by Ocean Breeze
Glad my designation isn't cojones-presser. . . . just hope Martin has the cajones ...... if pressed , he does.
. . . Form new aliances. A closer CA-European relationship is a very good idea. . .
Another recent developement is the investigation into opening the Port of Churchill, Manitoba, in Hudson's Bay to year-round trade with Murmansk, Russia, on the Barents Sea.
#9
Re: RE: Stem Cells with ethic
Oct 17th, 2005Quote: Originally Posted by Reverend Blair
Particular religious beliefs? What does harvesting unborn children to proform reaserch on them have to do with religion? It's murdur. And I think we can all agree that murdur is wrong.It's really a non-issue, Ocena. If the US wants to lag behind the rest of the world on scientific research because they elected a president who thinks everybody should follow his peculiar religious beliefs, then let them lag behind.
#10
Re: RE: Stem Cells with ethic
Oct 17th, 2005Quote: Originally Posted by p106_peppy
Illiterate, too?. . . Particular religious beliefs?. . .
Rev wrote peculiar
Anyone who holds back scientific research on what most believe will affect possible cures for many debilitating diseases, because his God said not to kill, but failed to issue stays of execution for 131 people while it was in his power, then lied to start a war that killed many thousands, including a couple thousand of the lives it was his job to protect . . .
Yep! I'd call them peculiar religion beliefs, too.
Particularly peculiar religion beliefs, even.
#11
Re: RE: Stem Cells with ethic
Oct 17th, 2005Quote: Originally Posted by GL Schmitt
Oh please, nit picking about small, trivial, details does not give your flawed argument more weight or legitamacy.Quote: Originally Posted by p106_peppyIlliterate, too?. . . Particular religious beliefs?. . .
Rev wrote peculiar
Anyone who holds back scientific research on what most believe will affect possible cures for many debilitating diseases, because his God said not to kill, but failed to issue stays of execution for 131 people while it was in his power, then lied to start a war that killed many thousands, including a couple thousand of the lives it was his job to protect . . .
Yep! I'd call them peculiar religion beliefs, too.
Particularly peculiar religion beliefs, even.
So what you're saying is that it's right to kill millions of children to lengthen or slightly improve the quality of the lives of a handful of people? I'm sorry, but your opinion is wrong. Killing is never justified.
#12
Re: RE: Stem Cells with ethic
Oct 17th, 2005Quote: Originally Posted by p106_peppy
And starting a war is akin to setting up an Amway dealership, right?. . . Killing is never justified.
How . . . peculair.
#13
Re: RE: Stem Cells with ethic
Oct 17th, 2005Quote: Originally Posted by GL Schmitt
Quote: Originally Posted by p106_peppyIlliterate, too?. . . Particular religious beliefs?. . .
Rev wrote peculiar
Never mind that - what the Heck is "murdur" ? ? ?
#14
RE: Stem Cells with ethics.
Oct 17th, 2005
Are you so single minded that you cant differentiate two different issues? Starting a war was not Christian. Protecting the rights of the unborn is. Just because one thing someone does is wrong doesn't mean everything else they do has to be wrong too.
It's not right to wage war on an innocent country. Neither is it right to take the life of an innocent child. Although the jury is still out on whether or not Iraq was innocent, and probably will be forever, no one can argue that an unborn child deserves to die.
It's not right to wage war on an innocent country. Neither is it right to take the life of an innocent child. Although the jury is still out on whether or not Iraq was innocent, and probably will be forever, no one can argue that an unborn child deserves to die.
#15
Re: RE: Stem Cells with ethic
Oct 17th, 2005Quote: Originally Posted by Ten Packs
grow upQuote: Originally Posted by GL SchmittQuote: Originally Posted by p106_peppyIlliterate, too?. . . Particular religious beliefs?. . .
Rev wrote peculiar
Never mind that - what the Heck is "murdur" ? ? ?
#16
Re: RE: Stem Cells with ethic
Oct 17th, 2005Quote: Originally Posted by p106_peppy
Quote: Originally Posted by GL SchmittOh please, nit picking about small, trivial, details does not give your flawed argument more weight or legitamacy.Quote: Originally Posted by p106_peppyIlliterate, too?. . . Particular religious beliefs?. . .
Rev wrote peculiar
Anyone who holds back scientific research on what most believe will affect possible cures for many debilitating diseases, because his God said not to kill, but failed to issue stays of execution for 131 people while it was in his power, then lied to start a war that killed many thousands, including a couple thousand of the lives it was his job to protect . . .
Yep! I'd call them peculiar religion beliefs, too.
Particularly peculiar religion beliefs, even.
So what you're saying is that it's right to kill millions of children to lengthen or slightly improve the quality of the lives of a handful of people? I'm sorry, but your opinion is wrong. Killing is never justified.
"killing is never justified"..............hmmm. A rather all inclusive , non definative statement. Does this include killing animals for food??? Does this include killing rodents for sanitation and good hygiene/health??? Does this include the "sport" of fishing?? does this include the thousands of LIVING people that bush's wars have killed.??? All of the above??? time to invest in some critical thinking and into the scientific mode..........IF mankind is to progess in critical areas of health improvement, etc. Religion has NO part in politics and it has NO part in Scientific research. Ethics and an ethical standard does.
Maybe "religion" should be privatized. as it is the biggest hindrence to mankind's progress.
#17
Re: RE: Stem Cells with ethic
Oct 17th, 2005Quote: Originally Posted by GL Schmitt
Quote: Originally Posted by Ocean BreezeGlad my designation isn't cojones-presser.. . . just hope Martin has the cajones ...... if pressed , he does.
. . . Form new aliances. A closer CA-European relationship is a very good idea. . .
Another recent developement is the investigation into opening the Port of Churchill, Manitoba, in Hudson's Bay to year-round trade with Murmansk, Russia, on the Barents Sea.
sorry GL.........that did not read as intended....
#18
RE: Stem Cells with ethics.
Oct 17th, 2005
killing humans. you know what I ment. Don't you have any real arguments? or can you just point out trivial details?
Quote:
there are no ethics without religion.Religion has NO part in politics and it has NO part in Scientific research. Ethics and an ethical standard does.
#19
Re: Stem Cells with ethics.
Oct 17th, 2005
I Am A Stem Cell and I’m Mad As Hell
By James Boyne
OpEdNews.Com
I am a stem cell and I’m mad as hell.
Since when did I give up my right to speak and be heard, to President Bush and the conservative, right wing, Republicans? Since when did I, a living, breathing (almost), thinking (almost), fully functioning stem cell give President Bush the right to speak for me and determine my fate. Never.
I am a stem cell and I’m mad as hell.
I may only be two or three cells or so but I have a mind of my own and I can think for myself. I certainly don’t need politics to have to worry about. I have enough problems. I’m a stem cell.
My fate is MY fate. If I can help someone out by sacrificing my existence, that’s my business. If someone needs to perform research on me for the benefit of mankind, I can’t think of a higher calling. If I can be of help to the sick, the injured, the old, the dying, then I will gladly help in any way I can. That’s what I am here for. I don’t need politicians to step in and interfere with God’s plan. God’s plan was for humans to discover the miracle of stem cells so they could help solve the world’s problems.
I am a stem cell and I am mad as hell.
I have the potential to rid mankind of almost every disease known to mankind. Alzheimer’s. Parkinson’s. Cerebral Palsy. AIDS. Paralysis. Depression.
I was sent here to help, like Jesus Christ himself. I am here to sacrifice for the benefit of all mankind, but you people are trying my patience now that I have been discovered. I’m mad as hell.
I may only be two or three cells, barely an embryo. Yes, left alone I might develop into a fully functioning human being. Big deal. Sixty million fully functioning human beings were killed, murdered and incinerated in your World War II. What the hell are you worried about me for? I am only a few cells big. You claim that you are concerned about the sanctity of life when 100 million people have been killed in wars since the year 1900. I’m just a damn stem cell. I was sent here to help you. Use me. Don’t you get it?
I’m a stem cell. Stem cells aren’t suppose to get mad but I am mad as hell. I’m here to change the course of human history and you people won’t even let me help. If I talk to God about you people and HE finds out that you people aren’t using me for science and research to cure the world of sickness, disease, and despair, HE is going to be royally pissed off.
Where does President Bush and his so called right wing, conservative, “Christian” coalition get off interfering with God’s plan. Don’t you people realize that God doesn’t care about your continual bickering about pro life/ pro choice; cloning, and yes, now, stem cells. He wants to know that the hell happened to the 100 million killed in wars since 1900.
What are you people worried about? Is your pharmaceutical and health insurance industry worried that I may cure so many diseases, injuries, and human maladies that they would virtually go out of business? Is this all about money? Or morality? Don’t you people get it?
I’m a stem cell and I’m just sitting around here waiting to solve problems for you. Big problems. You finally discovered me. Maybe, just in the nick of time. Now, use me. It’s no big thing. I’m only a few cells into humanness, so to speak. I’m not even as big as a midget, ha, ha. Yes, I have a sense of humor, not like some of you “wet blankets”. Hey, I am even the key to solving dwarfism, blindness, deafness, multiple sclerosis, brain damage, the regeneration of limbs, unrelenting physical pain, and old age itself.
I am a stem cell but I am getting mad as hell.
What are you worried about? You kill each other by the millions. You slaughter my animal friends by the hundreds of millions for food and fur. And you claim you are concerned about me, a little old stem cell, just a few cells into life. Give me a break! What a bunch of hypocrites.
What are you worried about, that you will actually solve all these problems that I can help you with? I am only a few cells big. Yes, I am life. So is every cell in your entire body. So is every molecule. So is every atom. How far do you want to carry this logic? I’m here to help you. And I am just one stem cell. There are millions of us stem cells just sitting around who wouldn’t make it anyway, just waiting to help you out.
Most of the other stem cells I know kind of “go with the flow”, so to speak. They know that sooner or later you people will catch on. I’m going to get in trouble for even speaking out like this. But……..
I’m a stem cell and I’m mad as hell.
hehehehehe...gotta love this part :P
James Boyne is a satirical, political freelance writer and has five other articles published on --. He has previously been a diehard, staunch, conservative Republican who has voted for Goldwater, Nixon, Ford, Reagan, Bush I and Bush II, and now has made a 180 degree turnabout and supports the candidacy of Congressman Dennis Kucinich (D-Ohio), who appears to have the most integrity, honesty, common sense, straightforwardness, enthusiasm, optimism, and “fire in the belly” to be possibly the best President in recent memory. He is a progressive, populist, liberal, Democrat and is a man of principal, intelligence and experience. Mr. Kucinich comes from a humble background and clearly spells out his positions on issues on his web site -- so there is no question where he stands on issues
By James Boyne
OpEdNews.Com
I am a stem cell and I’m mad as hell.
Since when did I give up my right to speak and be heard, to President Bush and the conservative, right wing, Republicans? Since when did I, a living, breathing (almost), thinking (almost), fully functioning stem cell give President Bush the right to speak for me and determine my fate. Never.
I am a stem cell and I’m mad as hell.
I may only be two or three cells or so but I have a mind of my own and I can think for myself. I certainly don’t need politics to have to worry about. I have enough problems. I’m a stem cell.
My fate is MY fate. If I can help someone out by sacrificing my existence, that’s my business. If someone needs to perform research on me for the benefit of mankind, I can’t think of a higher calling. If I can be of help to the sick, the injured, the old, the dying, then I will gladly help in any way I can. That’s what I am here for. I don’t need politicians to step in and interfere with God’s plan. God’s plan was for humans to discover the miracle of stem cells so they could help solve the world’s problems.
I am a stem cell and I am mad as hell.
I have the potential to rid mankind of almost every disease known to mankind. Alzheimer’s. Parkinson’s. Cerebral Palsy. AIDS. Paralysis. Depression.
I was sent here to help, like Jesus Christ himself. I am here to sacrifice for the benefit of all mankind, but you people are trying my patience now that I have been discovered. I’m mad as hell.
I may only be two or three cells, barely an embryo. Yes, left alone I might develop into a fully functioning human being. Big deal. Sixty million fully functioning human beings were killed, murdered and incinerated in your World War II. What the hell are you worried about me for? I am only a few cells big. You claim that you are concerned about the sanctity of life when 100 million people have been killed in wars since the year 1900. I’m just a damn stem cell. I was sent here to help you. Use me. Don’t you get it?
I’m a stem cell. Stem cells aren’t suppose to get mad but I am mad as hell. I’m here to change the course of human history and you people won’t even let me help. If I talk to God about you people and HE finds out that you people aren’t using me for science and research to cure the world of sickness, disease, and despair, HE is going to be royally pissed off.
Where does President Bush and his so called right wing, conservative, “Christian” coalition get off interfering with God’s plan. Don’t you people realize that God doesn’t care about your continual bickering about pro life/ pro choice; cloning, and yes, now, stem cells. He wants to know that the hell happened to the 100 million killed in wars since 1900.
What are you people worried about? Is your pharmaceutical and health insurance industry worried that I may cure so many diseases, injuries, and human maladies that they would virtually go out of business? Is this all about money? Or morality? Don’t you people get it?
I’m a stem cell and I’m just sitting around here waiting to solve problems for you. Big problems. You finally discovered me. Maybe, just in the nick of time. Now, use me. It’s no big thing. I’m only a few cells into humanness, so to speak. I’m not even as big as a midget, ha, ha. Yes, I have a sense of humor, not like some of you “wet blankets”. Hey, I am even the key to solving dwarfism, blindness, deafness, multiple sclerosis, brain damage, the regeneration of limbs, unrelenting physical pain, and old age itself.
I am a stem cell but I am getting mad as hell.
What are you worried about? You kill each other by the millions. You slaughter my animal friends by the hundreds of millions for food and fur. And you claim you are concerned about me, a little old stem cell, just a few cells into life. Give me a break! What a bunch of hypocrites.
What are you worried about, that you will actually solve all these problems that I can help you with? I am only a few cells big. Yes, I am life. So is every cell in your entire body. So is every molecule. So is every atom. How far do you want to carry this logic? I’m here to help you. And I am just one stem cell. There are millions of us stem cells just sitting around who wouldn’t make it anyway, just waiting to help you out.
Most of the other stem cells I know kind of “go with the flow”, so to speak. They know that sooner or later you people will catch on. I’m going to get in trouble for even speaking out like this. But……..
I’m a stem cell and I’m mad as hell.
hehehehehe...gotta love this part :P
James Boyne is a satirical, political freelance writer and has five other articles published on --. He has previously been a diehard, staunch, conservative Republican who has voted for Goldwater, Nixon, Ford, Reagan, Bush I and Bush II, and now has made a 180 degree turnabout and supports the candidacy of Congressman Dennis Kucinich (D-Ohio), who appears to have the most integrity, honesty, common sense, straightforwardness, enthusiasm, optimism, and “fire in the belly” to be possibly the best President in recent memory. He is a progressive, populist, liberal, Democrat and is a man of principal, intelligence and experience. Mr. Kucinich comes from a humble background and clearly spells out his positions on issues on his web site -- so there is no question where he stands on issues
#20
Re: Stem Cells with ethics.
Oct 17th, 2005
[quotethere are no ethics without religion.][/quote]
WRONG.
.......but that is another topic entirely.
How do you reconcile a small group of CELLS.......as a human being or baby.??? Can a small group of CELLS sustain independant human life??? Sheesh.
look .......you got your "religious " based views......and that is fine........ as long as you live by them. But there is one very important rule about any "religion" and its group of
BELIEFS......... and it goes along the lines of Do not foist one's BELIEFS on anyone else. Not everyone buys into the same belief system and nor should they. Now, if one wants to talk rational, reason and science..........fine. But "religion" has no place in the laboratory.
WRONG.
.......but that is another topic entirely.How do you reconcile a small group of CELLS.......as a human being or baby.??? Can a small group of CELLS sustain independant human life??? Sheesh.
look .......you got your "religious " based views......and that is fine........ as long as you live by them. But there is one very important rule about any "religion" and its group of
BELIEFS......... and it goes along the lines of Do not foist one's BELIEFS on anyone else. Not everyone buys into the same belief system and nor should they. Now, if one wants to talk rational, reason and science..........fine. But "religion" has no place in the laboratory.
#22
RE: Stem Cells with ethics.
Oct 17th, 2005
Stem cells are a human life because that's what they will become if left alone.
There are stem cells from other sources, such as baby teeth, and harvesting them is not murder, because they're just a body part, they cannot become a human by their own devices. But the initial cluster is human. If you say they're not human, then when do they become human? At birth? But fetuses have life signs and brain waves before their born, so when then? The one moment when life begins, can only be defined as contraception.
There are stem cells from other sources, such as baby teeth, and harvesting them is not murder, because they're just a body part, they cannot become a human by their own devices. But the initial cluster is human. If you say they're not human, then when do they become human? At birth? But fetuses have life signs and brain waves before their born, so when then? The one moment when life begins, can only be defined as contraception.
#23
Re: RE: Stem Cells with ethics.
Oct 17th, 2005Quote: Originally Posted by p106_peppy
the operative question in all this is VIABLE self sustainable life.(or even with medical assistance) ....... and that does not happen until about the three month period of gestation. Get a good book on Obstetrics (Professional version) and the data is there.Stem cells are a human life because that's what they will become if left alone.
There are stem cells from other sources, such as baby teeth, and harvesting them is not murder, because they're just a body part, they cannot become a human by their own devices. But the initial cluster is human. If you say they're not human, then when do they become human? At birth? But fetuses have life signs and brain waves before their born, so when then? The one moment when life begins, can only be defined as contraception.
(
Stem cells are a human life because that's what they will become if left alone. "
wrong. these stem cells have to be nourished in order to develope and go through the stages of gestation.
#24
Re: RE: Stem Cells with ethic
Oct 17th, 2005Quote: Originally Posted by p106_peppy
Go back to school...Quote: Originally Posted by Ten Packsgrow upQuote: Originally Posted by GL SchmittQuote: Originally Posted by p106_peppyIlliterate, too?. . . Particular religious beliefs?. . .
Rev wrote peculiar
Never mind that - what the Heck is "murdur" ? ? ?
#25
Re: RE: Stem Cells with ethics.
Oct 17th, 2005Quote: Originally Posted by Ocean Breeze
What about a handycaped person with a feeding tube? are they not alive? This person would be human, even though they need assistance to survive, as is a cluster of stem cells, which needs assistance from its mothers womb. Give it the right conditions and it will grow. Just because circumstances take away these conditions, does not make it less of a human.Quote: Originally Posted by p106_peppythe operative question in all this is VIABLE self sustainable life.(or even with medical assistance) ....... and that does not happen until about the three month period of gestation. Get a good book on Obstetrics (Professional version) and the data is there.Stem cells are a human life because that's what they will become if left alone.
There are stem cells from other sources, such as baby teeth, and harvesting them is not murder, because they're just a body part, they cannot become a human by their own devices. But the initial cluster is human. If you say they're not human, then when do they become human? At birth? But fetuses have life signs and brain waves before their born, so when then? The one moment when life begins, can only be defined as contraception.
Quote:
So is a child not a person if it cannot nourish itself? I believe there is another post on this board about a kid who died because his parents starved him. So was that death jusified because the kid couldent look after himself?(
Stem cells are a human life because that's what they will become if left alone. "
wrong. these stem cells have to be nourished in order to develope and go through the stages of gestation.
In the natural conditions, the womb, or conditions that mimic this, a cluster of cells will grow into a recognizable human.
#26
Re: RE: Stem Cells with ethic
Oct 17th, 2005Quote: Originally Posted by Ten Packs
I'm still in school. What's your excuse?Quote: Originally Posted by p106_peppyGo back to school...Quote: Originally Posted by Ten Packsgrow upQuote: Originally Posted by GL SchmittQuote: Originally Posted by p106_peppyIlliterate, too?. . . Particular religious beliefs?. . .
Rev wrote peculiar
Never mind that - what the Heck is "murdur" ? ? ?
#27
Re: Stem Cells with ethics.
Oct 17th, 2005Quote:
How is grade 6?I'm still in school. What's your excuse?
#28
Re: Stem Cells with ethics.
Oct 17th, 2005Quote: Originally Posted by Reverend Blair
This time. Quote:How is grade 6?I'm still in school. What's your excuse?
#29
Re: Stem Cells with ethics.
Oct 17th, 2005Quote: Originally Posted by GL Schmitt
Quote: Originally Posted by Reverend BlairThis time.Quote:How is grade 6?I'm still in school. What's your excuse?
( love your cat GL.
#30
RE: Stem Cells with ethics.
Oct 18th, 2005
I don't quite understand why certain of you have issues with this. Did anyone even read the article? Scientists, it seems, have found a way to obtain the exact same benefits that embryonic stem cells yield while at the same time appeasing individuals who have moral, ethical or religious objections to it.
To me it seems like progress in science. Why is this discussion degenerating into random attacks on Christianity and excuses for people to announce their dislike of Bush?
To me it seems like progress in science. Why is this discussion degenerating into random attacks on Christianity and excuses for people to announce their dislike of Bush?
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