Iran - Sanctions - Blockades - War - Treaties - to name a few possibilities


Goober
#1
Iran - Sanctions - Blockades - War - Treaties - to name a few possibilities
Iran - Many in the West believe that Iran is well on their way to building a Nuclear Weapon or having the ability to assemble such weapons quickly. With only a few options on the table a peaceful agreement could be made-

Failure to prevent Iran from having the ability to build and or assemble a Nuclear Weapon will guarantee a Nuclear Arms Race in the Mid East. Any one who thinks otherwise is like Chamberlain - A fool that will lead to an eventual War worse than if Iran has their Nuke Site taken out.

Bomb the facilities - Provides cover for the Iranian Thugocracy to blame traitors - other wise people known to not support the Govt - The Govt will arrest these so called traitors - and have numerous show trials, confessions obtained by torture and then large scale executions. A complete Purge would be the result of all that disagree with the Govt.
A complete shut down of any dissent will ensue - That along with increasing Govt support - As would occur in any country attacked.

The Iranian Thugocracy is rotting from the inside - unemployment - Rapid inflation - shortages and massive corruption by the ruling elites - And I mean even those that are against the Govt still made millions if not billions when they were with the Govt.

Sanctions
Under International law - a Blockade is a Causis Belli as I understand it - Which means the justification as an Act of War if War had not been declared.
Sanction do appear to be working in many cases but the Iranian Govt is still planning many enrichment facilities - well beyond what would be required for peaceful purposes. Unemployment is high - Inflation as well - many in Iran do not want a confrontation with the West.

Sanctions should be increased dramatically - If Russia and China Veto than NATO & Arab Countries should enforce them. No letting Arab countries off the hook - They are terrified of a Nuclear Iran. So it is useless to let them slip off quietly to condemn from the sidelines. Time to man up and pick where you stand.

Should the UN and if the UN fails by NATO including the Arab Countries - No hiding for them. Impose Stronger Sanctions including a Blockade by Land, Air, Sea if required - exceptions would be food, medicine, parts for water treatment and other critical infrastructure to prevent illness / disease, medical equipment and other such items so as to not cause needless deaths from disease, hunger etc.

Iran to be offered a number of high priorities for them. Listed below

On the other side of that coin firm conditions would have to be met by the West and Iran/Israel. In particular for Iran itself. Iran as a friend more than outweighs the problems that Iran causes /can cause as an enemy.

Security Guarantees for Iran and Israel. Including All Mid East countries to recognize the legitimacy Right of Existence of Israel as a Jewish Homeland and Palestine and that present Borders are Guaranteed. That would be clarified after Israel/Palestine have a peace Agreement

Iran & all Mid East Countries to cease all support of Hezbollah and Hamas - Any support for Palestine would go thru the UN and the UNHCR - Complete cooperation with Iran on upgrading their Infrastructure and the carrot of a Trade Agreement / Technology Transfers with the EU and North America. Based upon firm agreements & benchmarks that are met by both sides.

Israel would retain the Nuclear Weapons - Israel would never give those up - A Non Starter.

A settlement on the 2 States of Israel & Palestine - Imposed if required on Israel and that would probably be the case as Israel are the ones that are stalling and throwing up roadblocks- Palestine must be a viable and self contained State - It cannot be divided up piecemeal as Israel has done so far with the West Bank.

Israel to become part of NATO - 2nd Tier agreements equally applicable & open to all Countries in the Mid East that decide to join.

West Bank - A large number of settlements are illegal- They would have to be returned to the State of Palestine.

Golan Heights returned to Syria - Then the area becomes a permanent DMZ where Syria cannot station any Armed Military /Equipment including Air Defense /Artillery / Missile Sites - Armored Units / Infantry could but at a much reduced level - and cease support of Hamas /Hezbollah - Police and Border Guards would be permitted.

All Iranian Nuclear sites to be monitored on site by IAEA Staff - Permanent -

Time Line -3 months for an agreement on Nukes with Iran - Complete & Unrestricted access by IAEA Officials -
No agreement after 3 months Blockade 30 Days No agreement after 30 days Bomb their Oil gas facilities.

After another 30 Days No agreement Bomb their Nuke Facilities.

2 Sets of Negotiations as outlined below

Iranian Officials to be briefed that if negotiations fail - War will be the result - NATO will attack Nuclear & Military Sites & Bases. This stance Not to be made public - Position is West doing and offering basically what Iranian officials have stated they wanted for the past 30 years. Guarantees of Security from US attack Same as Cuba has.

Israeli Officials to be briefed that if Peace Negotiations with Palestinian fail due to Israel's intransigence - Europe - North America will impose immediate and complete Sanctions off all goods and cease all Trade and commerce with Israel.

Countries & UN Orgs participating in Negotiations would be - Russia - China - US - France -Germany - Turkey -Swiss - Denmark - Saudi Arabia - UAE - Qatar - UN Orgs -UNHCR & IAEA

www.nytimes.com/2011/11/10/op...ml?ref=opinion (external - login to view)

Map of Iran
map of iran - Google Maps (external - login to view)

Iran Military & Nuclear Sites
Iran - Middle East Maps (external - login to view)

IAEA Reports on Iran
http://www.iaea.org/Publications/Doc...gov2010-62.pdf

Strategic Targets in Iran
US Plan of Attack for Iran (external - login to view)

Underground facilities - Impossible to destroy.
Iran Shielding Its Nuclear Efforts in Maze of Tunnels - NYTimes.com (external - login to view)

Below are a number of links - some for - some against - some with what blowback can be expected. Hopefully you will read these as there are clear reasons for bombing and for not starting another War.

Jonathan Kay: Imagining an Iranian ICBM | Full Comment | National Post

Jonathan Kay: The case against bombing Iran | Full Comment | National Post

Who Wants to Bomb Iran? | Foreign Policy (external - login to view)

Pentagon Officials on Consequences of Bombing Iran LobeLog.com (external - login to view)
Read the links within this link above

Across the Aisle: The PSA Blog Are We Ready: The Consequences of ‘Bomb Iran’ (external - login to view)

Across the Aisle: The PSA Blog Are We Ready: The Consequences of ‘Bomb Iran’ (external - login to view)

War game shows how attacking Iran could backfire | McClatchy (external - login to view)

Iran Attack May Backfire: War Games Show Unintended Consequences (external - login to view)

Why bombing Iran would be a disaster | Prospect Magazine (external - login to view)

Foundation For Defense of Democracies Washington Forum (external - login to view)
 
Cliffy
+5 / -1
#2  Top Rated Post
More right wing hate propaganda. You are starting to sound like a broken record - like Breezy.
 
Just the Facts
+3
#3
Yeah but it's legitimate hate!
 
Ocean Breeze
#4
Good post, Goober. Covers the various options available , even if the war cloud continues to build. Whether for political effect and basic manipulative maneuvering, or for real.......it sure is taking up space on the news .

What is concerning is that this might be the last major Imperial "intervention".......as the world is getting more concerned about the flamboyant attitude the empire has to war and destruction. there is a carelessness about how such a horror is even discussed now .....as if if it just all in a days work......when in reality it is horrendous on so many levels.

IF the empire is looking to start WW3....it is going about it the right way. All the signs are there. IF this is just drum beating for the sake of poliics ......it is a cruel way to deal with another nation. as it comes down to psychological warfare ( psychological terrorism through constant threats and fear mongering )

Quote: Originally Posted by Just the FactsView Post

Yeah but it's legitimate hate!

Indeed and justifiable. THAT is what concerns the RW gang. as on some level even they can grasp that their beliefs , words and actions are tinged with fanaticism and outdated.
 
Cannuck
+2
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

More right wing hate propaganda. You are starting to sound like a broken record - like Breezy.

You are absolutely right. It is hate. I for one am proud to say I hate Amadickiyam.

thinkexist.com/quotes/mahmoud_ahmadinejad/ (external - login to view)

While I think the west bears a large portion of the blame for the current situation, that in no way means that we should not act.
 
Ocean Breeze
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by CannuckView Post

You are absolutely right. It is hate. I for one am proud to say I hate Amadickiyam.

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad quotes (external - login to view)

While I think the west bears a large portion of the blame for the current situation, that in no way means that we should not act.

ACT??? What kind of action do you suggest.?? And what is your motive for suggesting "action".

So the Iranian leadership is idiotic. Wonder how much of their bluster is just a defensive reaction to all the threats and ugly comments coming from the west .

Aggression is not the answer. Look at the results in Iraq.....and read the fine print of how things really are. Look at afganistan.....and again read the fine print where they are doing barbaric things and not even being discreet about it. Look at Libya ..another place that is now volatile. and it goes on and on.

Between these aggressions and the economic crisis...........the prescription for world size horrors is being written.

Why do you hate him??
 
darkbeaver
#7
Zionists are Nazis with nukes. Lots of nukes. There may well be one buried in your capital city. It makes for nice compliant western quizzlings. That and the blackmail. Amadinejad is a very good man that's why zionist scum hate him. Zionists despise the good.
 
Cliffy
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

More right wing hate propaganda. You are starting to sound like a broken record - like Breezy.

Thanks for the negative rep Breezy, just as expected. Why don't you grow up?
 
petros
#9
I can think of other reasons to pile on Iran that aren't religious or nuke based and goes far far beyond Tehran.
 
Cliffy
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

I can think of other reasons to pile on Iran that aren't religious or nuke based and goes far far beyond Tehran.

I know you like to keep us dangling, but why don't you just spill the beans, eh?
 
darkbeaver
#11
Could be Islamic banking beans, that after all just got Kadafie murdered and uncle Saddam before him. Oil for anything other than dollars contributes to death and destruction as well.
 
Cliffy
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaverView Post

Could be Islamic banking beans, that after all just got Kadafie murdered.

Oh, do the rest of them, especially those that lend to the west, not charge interest on their loans, like Gaddafi did?
 
darkbeaver
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

Oh, do the rest of them, especially those that lend to the west, not charge interest on their loans, like Gaddafi did?

Internally no. On international markets yes. But just because of the gun to their heads. Nothing ****s up the planet like usury. In Canada loans to public institutions used to be interest free. That was when the bank of Canada still functioned as mandated. Now we rent money from thieves and liars at exorbitant interest when once it was interest free when we were still allowed to operate a national bank.
 
gore0bsessed
#14
..More like right-wing fear-mongering, common amongst the ignorant.
 
Cliffy
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by darkbeaverView Post

Internally no. On international markets yes. But just because of the gun to their heads. Nothing ****s up the planet like usury. In Canada loans to public institutions used to be interest free. That was when the bank of Canada still functioned as mandated. Now we rent money from thieves and liars at exorbitant interest when once it was interest free when we were still allowed to operate a national bank.

I would like to know who held the gun to our head and forced us to borrow from the private banks and put our national bank on the back burner, under whose leadership did it happen and why were we never consulted or even told about it?

I think we should default on the pricks and reinstate our sovereignty.
 
petros
#16
Quote:

know who held the gun to our head and forced us to borrow from the private
banks and put our national bank on the back burner....

Take a "wild" guess at what was used for collateral and how we ended up with "world parks" under UNESCO.

They've become Nature Malls.
 
darkbeaver
#17
COMER The Committee on Monetary and Economic Reform (external - login to view)

it's in there some where Cliffy

Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

I would like to know who held the gun to our head and forced us to borrow from the private banks and put our national bank on the back burner, under whose leadership did it happen and why were we never consulted or even told about it?

I think we should default on the pricks and reinstate our sovereignty.

We agree but we are not Canada any longer we are a semi autonamouse region within the North American Union. We could petition the old city of London, but that as like as not will get us put down pronto. Literally that's what happens to those who think they will be free.

I wonder who owns Nova Scotia these days?
 
Goober
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by Ocean BreezeView Post

Good post, Goober. Covers the various options available , even if the war cloud continues to build. Whether for political effect and basic manipulative maneuvering, or for real.......it sure is taking up space on the news .

What is concerning is that this might be the last major Imperial "intervention".......as the world is getting more concerned about the flamboyant attitude the empire has to war and destruction. there is a carelessness about how such a horror is even discussed now .....as if if it just all in a days work......when in reality it is horrendous on so many levels.

IF the empire is looking to start WW3....it is going about it the right way. All the signs are there. IF this is just drum beating for the sake of poliics ......it is a cruel way to deal with another nation. as it comes down to psychological warfare ( psychological terrorism through constant threats and fear mongering )

Indeed and justifiable. THAT is what concerns the RW gang. as on some level even they can grasp that their beliefs , words and actions are tinged with fanaticism and outdated.

A Nuclear Weapon capability Iran will lead to war in the Mid East - Iran wants certain things - as does the West - It is time to negotiate an end to Nuke Weapkns for Iran - Not Nuke power - that along with Isreal - 2 states - Security guarantees etc for Iran is very important to Iran
 
gerryh
+1
#19
I'm curious as to the reasoning for allowing Israel to keep it's nuclear weapons and wanting to ensure that no other country in the ME has the same capability?
 
Goober
+1
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

I'm curious as to the reasoning for allowing Israel to keep it's nuclear weapons and wanting to ensure that no other country in the ME has the same capability?

Survival -
 
gerryh
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

Survival -

Why does it need nukes? Israel has managed, using conventional forces only, to not only stay alive, but also to expand it's borders from the original 1948 borders. So why does it need nukes to survive?
 
Goober
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

Why does it need nukes? Israel has managed, using conventional forces only, to not only stay alive, but also to expand it's borders from the original 1948 borders. So why does it need nukes to survive?

Israel will not give them up - That is fact - You know it as well as i - But they can be reduced in number.

Consider that the Arab World if they ever got the skill sets - professional Military they could overrun Israel. That is another fact.
 
gerryh
+2
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

Israel will not give them up - That is fact -


and neither will Britain, China, France, India, Pakistan, Russia, United States, or North Korea. Yet, like hypocrites, we all expect that no one else acquire the same weaponry that we "enjoy".

It works both ways, you want everyone else to stay out of the nuclear weapon game, then everyone should get out of it. Period.
 
Goober
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

and neither will Britain, China, France, India, Pakistan, Russia, United States, or North Korea. Yet, like hypocrites, we all expect that no one else acquire the same weaponry that we "enjoy".

It works both ways, you want everyone else to stay out of the nuclear weapon game, then everyone should get out of it. Period.

Well N Korea is ruled by wackos - not as bad as Iran though. Justify it what ever way you want but having an Iran with a Nuke weapons capability scares the shxt out of many of its neighbors - and yes they also are Sunni - Western Europe to name a few.
 
Ocean Breeze
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

Well N Korea is ruled by wackos - not as bad as Iran though. Justify it what ever way you want but having an Iran with a Nuke weapons capability scares the shxt out of many of its neighbors - and yes they also are Sunni - Western Europe to name a few.

Maybe there are more wackos in leadership positions than we want to examine. How often does N Korea or Iran do regime changes via invasion and occupation on the planet.?? Sure they bluster.......and we should note their bluster.......but why do we have to inflame it with even more threats ???

One has to wonder just how valid a threat Iran is in reality. We are so inundated with war talk , aggressive , threatening talk and lies about other places........particularly those that the empire has an interest in ....that one is hard pressed to know what the reality is.

It all comes down to who benefits from these aggressive actions and words?? It certainly is NOT the populations of the target or of the one doing the targetting.

One would have thought that in this era the thirst for bloody wars would have subsided and reason would have taken hold.

We are certainly at the stage of who controls the natural resources , controls the planet. And we all know who wants that control.
 
Goober
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by Ocean BreezeView Post

Maybe there are more wackos in leadership positions than we want to examine. How often does N Korea or Iran do regime changes via invasion and occupation on the planet.?? Sure they bluster.......and we should note their bluster.......but why do we have to inflame it with even more threats ???

One has to wonder just how valid a threat Iran is in reality. We are so inundated with war talk , aggressive , threatening talk and lies about other places........particularly those that the west has an interest in ....that one is hard pressed to know what the reality is.

It all comes down to who benefits from these aggressive actions and words?? It certainly is NOT the populations of the target or of the one doing the targetting.

One would have thought that in this era the thirst for bloody wars would have subsided and reason would have taken hold.

I explained in my OP is what Iran wants - The only thing not mentioned is Respect and Influence - This would provide both.
 
Ocean Breeze
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

Israel will not give them up - That is fact - You know it as well as i - But they can be reduced in number.

Consider that the Arab World if they ever got the skill sets - professional Military they could overrun Israel. That is another fact.

a lot of what ifs. Is that what the objective of the Arab world??? Who are you including in the "Arab world"??

Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

I explained in my OP is what Iran wants - The only thing not mentioned is Respect and Influence - This would provide both.

Will Iran perceive it as such?? We are dealing with a different culture completely and as such a different / unique mindset.
 
Goober
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by Ocean BreezeView Post

a lot of what ifs. Is that what the objective of the Arab world??? Who are you including in the "Arab world"??



Will Iran perceive it as such?? We are dealing with a different culture completely and as such a different / unique mindset.

Iran with Nukes will lead to more Nukes in the Mid East - and what does that mean - the hair trigger moves up to a level and mistakes can be made. Then we have a Nuclear War.
 
Ocean Breeze
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

Iran with Nukes will lead to more Nukes in the Mid East - and what does that mean - the hair trigger moves up to a level and mistakes can be made. Then we have a Nuclear War.

So it's ok for the Empire to be loaded with nukes?? (as well as a few other countries?? ) Either everyone is treated equally when it comes to self defense with NUKES...(which is an idiotic joke) or NO ONE has them??

IF they want them they will get them. Just as others have done. Bombing them to oblivion is the perfect example of why NO one should have such lethal weapons.

Note: only ONE country has used such devestation. and yet it is the one nation that wants no one else to have them. Israel can have what ever it wants under the cover of the empire. ... Is THAT fair??

How does that foster mutual trust and respect??
 
Goober
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by Ocean BreezeView Post

So it's OK for the Empire to be loaded with nukes?? (as well as a few other countries?? ) Either everyone is treated equally when it comes to self defense with NUKES...(which is an idiotic joke) or NO ONE has them??

IF they want them they will get them. Just as others have done. Bombing them to oblivion is the perfect example of why NO one should have such lethal weapons.

Note: only ONE country has used such devestation. and yet it is the one nation that wants no one else to have them. Israel can have what ever it wants under the cover of the empire. ... Is THAT fair??

How does that foster mutual trust and respect??

Your answer is BS - 1 million was rhe estimated casualties for invading Japan- Unacceptable - Do you think that a Nuclear Iran is a positive or a negative based upon the political realities of that area.

Now I am off to bed - So God Bless and kepp well.
 

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