Iran - Sanctions - Blockades - War - Treaties - to name a few possibilities


CDNBear
+2
#181
Quote: Originally Posted by MHzView Post

They don't hunt their own kind.

Riiight, I've never found baby Perch in adult Perch stomachs.

I've never pulled small Lake Trout out of large Lake trout.
 
L Gilbert
+1
#182
Quote: Originally Posted by MHzView Post

They don't hunt their own kind.

You really think that? You need to get out more. I can think of several species of fish that eat their own; shark, barracuda, grouper, dolly varden, northern pike, etc.
 
MHz
#183
I was thinking along the lines of a large schools of similar fish, even a rabbit will eat a rabbit if it is starving.
 
L Gilbert
#184
Quote: Originally Posted by MHzView Post

I was thinking along the lines of a large schools of similar fish, even a rabbit will eat a rabbit if it is starving.

Wut?

Regardless, fish do not have a motive for ruling anything. They have a motive for self-defense and eating to survive. And they do violence to do that surviving. And your comment said, "Rule by force is as old as violence itself,".
Last edited by L Gilbert; Feb 26th, 2012 at 05:50 PM..
 
MHz
#185
Fish follow migration patterns. Rather than examinje each fish death over past eons in great detail perhaps I can say that they had less to fear from their own kind than from other species. It was man's eye that forst though croc mothers were eating their offspring rather than giving them a place of safety in times of trouble. What we come up with first might be correct in a gut-reaction situation, detailed studt migh show the initial conclusion to be in error once all the 'details' have been examined. If we were smart we would be training whales to be the the cowboys of the seas.

Quote: Originally Posted by L GilbertView Post

Wut?

Regardless, fish do not have a motive for ruling anything. They have a motive for self-defense and eating to survive. And they do violence to do that surviving. And your comment said, "Rule by force is as old as violence itself,".

Spiecies have to battle other species all the time. it is a prey/predator/prey situation.
 
MHz
+1
#186
How smart is it to admit you are acting as terrorists in other lands, looks like Israel is rubbing it in the face of the West and Iran and getting away with it. I can understand Iran keeping to their borders but the US is only showing how two faced they are as are some on this forum.

httpwwwyoutubecomwatchvNLvedlayerembedded



blog.alexanderhiggins.com/201...rorists-87662/ (external - login to view)
 
Ocean Breeze
-1
#187
Quote:

- Sanctions - Blockades - War - Treaties - to name a few possibilities6 minutes ago

How smart is it to admit you are acting as terrorists in other lands

at least that is the TRUTH. The US has been a "terrorist" to many nations. Usually starting with THREATS. making false claims so as to make the population (US) see the object nation as an "enemy" , and of course elective invasions of choice. Wars are the ultimate terrorist act. The Afghans , Iraqis and others in history have been terrorized until it was decided that the US got what it came for via the wars.

The hypocracy that surrounds most of this (along with the lies) is shameful and transparent.
 
MHz
+1
#188
and ongoing with no end in sight. I thought one of the big bragging points of living in the West is that the Gov was a servant of the people in the specific Nation, obviously more bull**** right from the top.
 
Goober
#189
Quote: Originally Posted by MHzView Post

and ongoing with no end in sight. I thought one of the big bragging points of living in the West is that the Gov was a servant of the people in the specific Nation, obviously more bull**** right from the top.

Iran regime promotes siege mentality to bolster support leading up to election | News | National Post

DUBAI — As international pressure mounts on Iran over its disputed nuclear program, the leadership is seeking to bolster support with rousing revolutionary rhetoric.

State-run newspapers, websites and television channels talk incessantly of plots by Iran’s “foreign enemies” to bring the Islamic Republic crashing to its knees.

Official media is doing its best to get people behind Friday’s parliamentary election — a ballot from which mosMuch scorn is poured on the United States, an enemy of Iranian revolutionaries since a 1953 coup ushered in the U.S-backed Shah’s rule, which ended in 1979.

“U.S. dreads turnout in the elections,” said a headline on Press TV, an English-language state television channel and website.

State broadcaster IRIB has shown old footage of young conscripts fighting in the 1980-88 Iran-Iraq war. The pictures were followed by an interview with a patriotic Iranian urging people to vote.

“Any vote cast at the ballot boxes is a punch in the eye of the enemy,” he says.

The enemy in general is a mixed bag of the United States, Israel, European powers, and Gulf-led Arab states opposed to Tehran.

The main dispute at present is over Iran’s nuclear program and whether its purpose is to develop a source of energy, as Tehran says, or an atomic bomb, as its foes believe.

The United States and the European Union have imposed sanctions on Iran to force it to abandon its nuclear activities. The United States and Israel have also hinted they may be prepared to take military action.

Iran’s Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei called on the nation to defuse “enemies” plots by voting on Friday.

“The Iranian nation will slap the arrogant powers in the face harder than ever by their high turnout,” Khamenei told a gathering on Wednesday.

“We should resist and make the enemies more envious of our will and
t pro-Western reformist parties have been banned.
 
Ocean Breeze
#190
Quote: Originally Posted by MHzView Post

and ongoing with no end in sight. I thought one of the big bragging points of living in the West is that the Gov was a servant of the people in the specific Nation, obviously more bull**** right from the top.

a gov't a servant of the people??? That is a myth that has been perpetuated by the propaganda machine. People bought into it "freely"

Seems most of the bragging points are being torn down as truths emerge.

No end in sight........INDEED. If anything......there will be more tentacles spreading world wide in the name of control and under the excuse of "terrorists" Capitlzing on the terrorist issue as the USG has done , has left the US population even more threatened and fearful. Bouts of backlash are bound to happen.

How can anyone say that Iran is not being terrorized by the US /west???? The constant barrage of threats and denouncing the political leaders there . just goes on and on.

NO nation has the right to terrorize another. No nation has the right to do regime changes (electively, violently and via war) in another. But that does not phase the USG. It is (in its grandiose mind) above the law. The same laws that apply to everyone else ....

It is total INSANITY to make aggressive threats with all options on the table to a nation on the basis of what it "might" be doing or might do.

Just imagine what the USG "might do " .........and yet the double standard is in full force.
 
MHz
+2
#191
The US still takes it's marching orders from the World Bank, unlimited debt as long as they do what they are told. If the US (and us) crash the problem isn't solved as the next 'super power' is still under their thumb.
 
Goober
#192
Quote: Originally Posted by Ocean BreezeView Post

a gov't a servant of the people??? That is a myth that has been perpetuated by the propaganda machine. People bought into it "freely"

Seems most of the bragging points are being torn down as truths emerge.

No end in sight........INDEED. If anything......there will be more tentacles spreading world wide in the name of control and under the excuse of "terrorists" Capitlzing on the terrorist issue as the USG has done , has left the US population even more threatened and fearful. Bouts of backlash are bound to happen.

How can anyone say that Iran is not being terrorized by the US /west???? The constant barrage of threats and denouncing the political leaders there . just goes on and on.

NO nation has the right to terrorize another. No nation has the right to do regime changes (electively, violently and via war) in another. But that does not phase the USG. It is (in its grandiose mind) above the law. The same laws that apply to everyone else ....

Couple of questions
Do you believe the US is planning to attack Iran?

If Iran goes Nuk will others do so - Saudi - Turkey and so on?

Has Iran been cooperating with the IAEA?
 
Ocean Breeze
#193
Quote: Originally Posted by MHzView Post

The US still takes it's marching orders from the World Bank, unlimited debt as long as they do what they are told. If the US (and us) crash the problem isn't solved as the next 'super power' is still under their thumb.

Makes one wonder why they even bother to have "elections"....No matter who is "elected"......what is determined is by who holds the debts. Meanwhile the debt just keeps increasing. another "no end in sight".

Little wonder the whole planet is going through a major cataclysm financially.

WE can't forget the war and profit factor in all this too.
 
MHz
#194
Yes, as payback for events going back as far as 1979.
Moot question as Iran isn't seeking 'the bomb'. Defense contracts has Turkey and Saudi being protected from attack by nations that do have n-weapons.
Yes, the IAEA should be somewhat suspicious of 'gifts' that are handed to them that only support Israel's and the US position. The IAEA is a lap dog of the nuclear industry, it does what it's told

Now some questions for you.

What was the date of the last time Iran invaded a sovereign Nation?

If Iran was given a new form of power from Israel and the US would the war-mongering from those two places stop entirely and for good?

Has Israel been cooperating with the IAEA? (in that without inspections it is illiegal for the US to sell or gift them any weapons at all)

"Iran’s Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei called on the nation to defuse “enemies” plots by voting on Friday."

This is your idea of a 'terrorist'? ROFLMAO
 
Goober
+1
#195
Quote: Originally Posted by MHzView Post

Yes, as payback for events going back as far as 1979.
Moot question as Iran isn't seeking 'the bomb'. Defense contracts has Turkey and Saudi being protected from attack by nations that do have n-weapons.
Yes, the IAEA should be somewhat suspicious of 'gifts' that are handed to them that only support Israel's and the US position. The IAEA is a lap dog of the nuclear industry, it does what it's told

Now some questions for you.

What was the date of the last time Iran invaded a sovereign Nation?

If Iran was given a new form of power from Israel and the US would the war-mongering from those two places stop entirely and for good?

Has Israel been cooperating with the IAEA? (in that without inspections it is illiegal for the US to sell or gift them any weapons at all)

"Iran’s Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei called on the nation to defuse “enemies” plots by voting on Friday."

This is your idea of a 'terrorist'? ROFLMAO


Iran has not invaded a country we know that. But Iran has territorial claims that are still outstanding.

Israel is not a member of the NPT - Iran is.

My questions
When did Iran stop killing Iranian dissidents both inside Iran and in many other countries

When did Iran stop funding Proxies - from Hamas to the Taliban to the Shia in Iraq to Hezbollah in Lebanon?

The hardliners are out on both sides - does that tell you anything about a split within the ruling Thugocracy.

Reformers are boycotting the election - Tell me why?
 
MHz
#196
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

Israel is not a member of the NPT - Iran is.

There is something like the 'simmons agreement' (still looking for the right spelling) that forbids the US to sell any weapons to a nuclear power that does not allow inspections, plain and simple and not followed. Clean up their own act before demanding others fix something that is already in order legally.
 
Goober
#197
Quote: Originally Posted by MHzView Post

There is something like the 'simmons agreement' (still looking for the right spelling) that forbids the US to sell any weapons to a nuclear power that does not allow inspections, plain and simple and not followed. Clean up their own act before demanding others fix something that is already in order legally.

Still waiting on my questions.
 
MHz
#198
Finish answering mine first, you skipped one.
 
Goober
#199
Quote: Originally Posted by MHzView Post

Finish answering mine first, you skipped one.



If Iran was given a new form of power from Israel and the US would the war-mongering from those two places stop entirely and for good?
No it would not.Iran would then cause more problems.

Has Israel been cooperating with the IAEA? (in that without inspections it is illiegal for the US to sell or gift them any weapons at all)

Isreal has not signed the NPT - Along with India, Pakistan and Nkorea withdrew
 
MHz
#200
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

Iran has not invaded a country we know that. But Iran has territorial claims that are still outstanding.

Israel is not a member of the NPT - Iran is.

My questions
When did Iran stop killing Iranian dissidents both inside Iran and in many other countries

When did Iran stop funding Proxies - from Hamas to the Taliban to the Shia in Iraq to Hezbollah in Lebanon?

The hardliners are out on both sides - does that tell you anything about a split within the ruling Thugocracy.

Reformers are boycotting the election - Tell me why?

What claims are outstanding?

Political speaker of political activist who uses explosives to get their point across. Perhaps Moosehaed should send it's people to speak to the public via a TV station with phone in calls instead of using some proxy that has no real support from the citizens of Iran.
Believe it or not Hamas is allowed to carry weapons, they are the elected Gov and they operate the Police. Hezubullah is the elected Government of Lebanon, they have the right to buy arms from anybody they wish.

If both parties hate the US who the **** can blame them, look at the unjustified persecution since '79. Talk about a 3yr old type tantrum, they should grow up, but first the people who support their current madness have to grow-up. If that includes you, so be it.
 
Goober
#201
Quote: Originally Posted by MHzView Post

What claims are outstanding?

Political speaker of political activist who uses explosives to get their point across. Perhaps Moosehaed should send it's people to speak to the public via a TV station with phone in calls instead of using some proxy that has no real support from the citizens of Iran.
Believe it or not Hamas is allowed to carry weapons, they are the elected Gov and they operate the Police. Hezubullah is the elected Government of Lebanon, they have the right to buy arms from anybody they wish.

If both parties hate the US who the **** can blame them, look at the unjustified persecution since '79. Talk about a 3yr old type tantrum, they should grow up, but first the people who support their current madness have to grow-up. If that includes you, so be it.

Here is one claim
Iran (external - login to view)


Please answer the questions i asked clearly- Only way to chat.
 
MHz
#202
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

If Iran was given a new form of power from Israel and the US would the war-mongering from those two places stop entirely and for good?
No it would not.Iran would then cause more problems.

Has Israel been cooperating with the IAEA? (in that without inspections it is illiegal for the US to sell or gift them any weapons at all)

Isreal has not signed the NPT - Along with India, Pakistan and Nkorea withdrew

Iran hasn't been causing any problem, if the US had no objection when Iran applied for the power stations, crying over spilled milk is all they are presently doing.

Indai and Pak still allowed inspection, only Israel has been inspection free, that means the law on the US books is being broken, nobody cares about that but all hot and bothered over a Nation 'that got away' and is living within the agreements she signed, that does not include the (spy ridden() IAEA to wander around Military bases when she is threaten with pre-emptive war by the two powers that the IAEA is know to be sub-servant to. Wher is all their bitching and complaining about being denied acces to Israels N sites.

Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

Here is one claim
Iran (external - login to view)


Please answer the questions i asked clearly- Only way to chat.

"Bahrain, linked to Saudi Arabia by the King Fahd Causeway, plays an important role in the Saudi political—and moral— economy. In essence, it functions as a playground for well-off residents of the kingdom, a place where people can engage in activities proscribed at home."
The same Bahrain that saw Saudi tanks come in to kill protesters? Sounds like Cuba before Castro cleaned the place up, illegal at home so a quick trip and all your vices become legal, how convient for the rich and how sad for the natives of Bahrain, more a naval base for the US that a Nation separate from all other nations in the area. Looks like it is a thing that allows the Saudi Govt to fully support the West's military machine while making it appear that they are 'outside' that sort of influence. The only ones being fooled are the citizens of Saudi and I doubt many of them are as deceived as most people in the West.

"Such claims were pushed hard (external - login to view) in 1906 and again in 1927, and were temporarily reactivated after the Islamic Revolution of 1979."
3 mentions in more than 100 years, not what you would call 'relentless aggression'. Not one shot fired in all that time either, what an epic fail that article is as far as making point for you accusations.

The Brits did **** like that whenever they left an area, it was designed to create hostilities, same as the 'disputed' area between India and Pakistan. Perhaps you should lay the blame at the right place, Britain and the way she divided the area up. Better yet, perhaps the 4 Nations mentioned shoud realize the facts and shun any dealings with Britain or her friends in that it was intentional rather than accidental.
 
Goober
#203
On the sidelines of Iran's election - By Geneive Abdo | The Middle East Channel (external - login to view)

Former President Mohammad Khatami made a statement last December about the upcoming parliamentary elections in Iran, "When all the signs indicate that we should not participate in the elections, participation will be meaningless."

Now, just hours before the polls open on March 2, Khatami and many other Iranians for the first time since the 1979 Islamic Revolution will stage a boycott. This is the only election in which a major political faction will remain on the sidelines. All the "signs," as Khatami put it, are there -- the only candidates allowed to compete are largely from three conservative factions among the regime's shrinking cast of political elites. All others were banned from running candidates.

But what is more significant than the rigged vetting process is what the election sadly reveals for many -- a changed Iran. Gone is the euphoria that energized millions of Iranians before past presidential elections in 1997 and 2009 and parliamentary elections in 2000. Instead, this week's elections will take place under the watchful eyes of 50,000 election "monitors" nationwide, thousands of basij fighters designated just for Tehran, and the heaviest police presence since after the disputed presidential election of 2009.

The regime is taking no chances the election will turn into a standoff between the opposition and the security forces or become a national expression of all the pressures Iranians face from the state's economic mismanagement to sanctions and the looming threat of war with Israel. Security officials have repeatedly warned the population ahead of the election that no protests will be tolerated.

The scripted election also illustrates a political realignment that has occurred since 2009 and the consolidation of power around Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. In addition to ensuring the reformists' -- and even quasi-reformists, such as Hashemi Rafsanjani -- departure from politics, Khamenei's loyalists have also paved the way for the demise of the "deviant" faction, as it is called, which represents President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

Khamenei wants to cleanse the next parliament of Ahmadinejad supporters who have fought on the president's behalf over the last two years in a fierce battle between Ahmadinejad and Khamenei -- one in which the president lost out. Ending this faction's political career will also guarantee that no Ahmadinejad loyalist will have enough support inside the regime to run in the next presidential election in 2013.

After this election, assuming Khamenei will succeed in eliminating Ahmadinejad's faction, only two political trends will remain relevant inside the political system. One is the conservative traditionalists who are members of the old guard, such as Parliamentary Speaker Ali Larijani. The other is the far right, comprised of hardliners, grouped around Ayatollah Mesbah Yazdi, an aging revolutionary figure who proclaims to be committed to the ideological purity of the Islamic republic, at last as he interprets it.

In order to achieve a complete electoral victory, the regime faces a significant challenge the morning after. There is likely to be a low voter turnout, particularly in large cities such as Tehran. And even if the voter turnout is significantly higher in rural areas, as is often the case, it is urban public opinion that gives the regime a seal of approval in the eyes of the West. Historically, the regime has tried to convince the world and its domestic audience at home that large participation in elections demonstrates Iranians' belief in the system and the legitimacy of the regime. Proving the worthiness to govern is more important to Khamenei now than ever as Western nations continue to impose sanctions on Iran and place it in the category of a rogue state.

With the reformists' boycotting and a general malaise hovering over the country, it appears likely the regime will have to figure out how to deal with a poor showing at the polls. If officials try to inflate the voter turnout, they could face humiliation. No doubt the untruths will be played out on opposition websites and social networking sites.
 
MHz
#204
"Former President Mohammad Khatami made a statement last December about the upcoming parliamentary elections in Iran, "When all the signs indicate that we should not participate in the elections, participation will be meaningless."

Now, just hours before the polls open on March 2, Khatami and many other Iranians for the first time since the 1979 Islamic Revolution will stage a boycott. This is the only election in which a major political faction will remain on the sidelines. All the "signs," as Khatami put it, are there -- the only candidates allowed to compete are largely from three conservative factions among the regime's shrinking cast of political elites. All others were banned from running candidates."

What better person to interview for an unbiased opinion that 'the loser' in the last election. No complaints in 30 years and suddenly now the US and Israel need one whop better to approach than a loser with an axe to grind. lol talk about scraping the bottom of the barrel.
 
Goober
#205
Quote: Originally Posted by MHzView Post

"Former President Mohammad Khatami made a statement last December about the upcoming parliamentary elections in Iran, "When all the signs indicate that we should not participate in the elections, participation will be meaningless."

Now, just hours before the polls open on March 2, Khatami and many other Iranians for the first time since the 1979 Islamic Revolution will stage a boycott. This is the only election in which a major political faction will remain on the sidelines. All the "signs," as Khatami put it, are there -- the only candidates allowed to compete are largely from three conservative factions among the regime's shrinking cast of political elites. All others were banned from running candidates."

What better person to interview for an unbiased opinion that 'the loser' in the last election. No complaints in 30 years and suddenly now the US and Israel need one whop better to approach than a loser with an axe to grind. lol talk about scraping the bottom of the barrel.

What is ocurring is how it was done in Communist countries - Purges, more purges and more purges - All farther than the last. You try to put a spin on it. Fine with me, but do you really believe what you wrote?
 
MHz
#206
Don't you mean similar to the death squads the US trained to '[help the Government' in South America? That is the very same way the US ran the place, got any complaints from that era or is this just a new thing with no history tied to it, as usual. How many in Iran would remember those days, some of the same people could be viewing to take back that power they lost 3 decades ago, after all, who else could stomach being in cahoots with the US in particular and the West in general.

I believe everything I write, I am also quite capable of updating my knowledge base as more info becomes available, too bad you can't say the same thing and mean it.

blog.alexanderhiggins.com/201...an-gulf-87912/ (external - login to view)
Last edited by MHz; Feb 29th, 2012 at 09:24 PM..
 
Goober
#207
Quote: Originally Posted by MHzView Post

Don't you mean similar to the death squads the US trained to '[help the Government' in South America? That is the very same way the US ran the place, got any complaints from that era or is this just a new thing with no history tied to it, as usual. How many in Iran would remember those days, some of the same people could be viewing to take back that power they lost 3 decades ago, after all, who else could stomach being in cahoots with the US in particular and the West in general.

I believe everything I write, I am also quite capable of updating my knowledge base as more info becomes available, too bad you can't say the same thing and mean it.

Nasty surprises await warmongers in Persian Gulf (external - login to view)

But I can.
 
MHz
#208
Have I ever witnessed it in action?
 
Goober
#209
Asia Times Online :: What's at stake in Iran's elections (external - login to view)

Parliamentary elections this Friday in Iran are far from being free and fair. Well, at least that's a step beyond those paragons of democracy - the election-free Persian Gulf monarchies.

In Iran, this time the problem is there's no opposition; it's cons (conservatives) against neo-cons.

The Green Movement leaders, Mir Hossein Mousavi and his wife, Dr Zahra Rahnavard, as well as Mehdi Karroubi, have been under house arrest for over a year now; echoing Myanmar's Aung Suu Kyi, but more vocally, they have repeatedly stressed they will not "repent".

Virtually all key opposition leaders, including university activists, almost 1,000 people, are in jail; not because they're criminals but THE ROVING EYE

Parliamentary elections this Friday in Iran are far from being free and fair. Well, at least that's a step beyond those paragons of democracy - the election-free Persian Gulf monarchies.

In Iran, this time the problem is there's no opposition; it's cons (conservatives) against neo-cons.

The Green Movement leaders, Mir Hossein Mousavi and his wife, Dr Zahra Rahnavard, as well as Mehdi Karroubi, have been under house arrest for over a year now; echoing Myanmar's Aung Suu Kyi, but more vocally, they have repeatedly stressed they will not "repent".

Virtually all key opposition leaders, including university activists, almost 1,000 people, are in jail; not because they're criminals but because they're very canny organizers of popular anger.

The most influential opposition groups have in fact been outlawed - and that even includes groups of clerics and the Islamically correct Association of Teachers and Scholars in the holy city of Qom. No fewer than 42 influential journalists are also in jail.

The absolute majority of the reformist press has been shut down. Non-government organizations such as the Center for the Defense of Human Rights, founded by Nobel Prize winner Shirin Ebadi, have been outlawed.

A short definition of these elections would be something like this; a byzantine scheme of power sharing between political groups representing a very small elite, while large swathes of the population - and their representatives - are totally sidelined.

Essentially, this will be a fierce battle between Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khamenei and President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. So why do these elections matter so much?

Welcome to the Islamic UFC
Khamenei-Ahmadinejad is now a cage match
. Stripped to the bone, it's the fight between the ayatollah and the man with a halo over his head that will set the stage for the next presidential election, in June 2013 - when in the best of possible worlds there will be an Obama II, and the specter of war might have been averted.
 
MHz
#210
You hit you own head recently doing a face-palm thing, if so you may have hurt something. Look at the quote below, the bolded words would describe Iran during the time the US was running the show in the 25 years preceding 1979.

Do you even acknowledge the horror the citizens experiences under the installed regime?

"Parliamentary elections this Friday in Iran are far from being free and fair. Well, at least that's a step beyond those paragons of democracy - the election-free Persian Gulf monarchies."

I pointed out to you not long ago that the present Government of Iran is more democratic on a local and international level than the 'real hardliners' that actually get funding from covert operation done by both the CIA and MOSSAD. (It's going to come as a real shock to those partners to know their lives are only useful until a certain point, there will be no new Shaw of Iran, there will be international corporation and the citizens will be no better off than the worst of the worst in Saudi Arabia. No wonder the people shudder when the West comers calling.

BTW you should read what you link to, if you did read it you editing is far worse than anything I have ever posted. Re-raed the 6 paragraphs after my quoted portion. A stutter perhaps
 

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