Privatizing Aboriginal Reserves


Cannuck
#91
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

Simply because you know you were wrong, but lack the fortitude to admit it.

So now you are saying I was wrong. Being wrong isn't a synonym for lying. Maybe it would help if you didn't keep switching your story.
 
CDNBear
#92
Quote: Originally Posted by CannuckView Post

So now you are saying I was wrong. Being wrong isn't a synonym for lying. Maybe it would help if you didn't keep switching your story.

We already know you don't think lying is wrong. Hence the song and dance, and lack of fortitude on your part.

Carry on.
 
Cannuck
#93
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

We already know you don't think lying is wrong.

Yes, if I lied then it could be considered wrong but as of yet, you haven't established that. Carry on.
 
CDNBear
#94
Quote: Originally Posted by CannuckView Post

Yes, if I lied then it could be considered wrong but as of yet, you haven't established that.

You're the only one that says that. I would have said "thinks so". But you know you lied. Hence the dance.

Quote:

Carry on.

No worries about that, I love pointing out the lies and hypocrisy of self proclaimed hypocrisy hunting problem solvers.
 
L Gilbert
+2
#95
Quote: Originally Posted by talloolaView Post

hi gil, so glad to see you here again, I don't usually come into this thread, but enjoy reading how Bear
posts on this subject, very intelligent, knowledgeable, and tough, makes my day.

don't be a stranger now.

HAPPY NEW YEAR.

Hey, Hon, Thanks. And may your year be a healthy, happy, and prosperous one, too.
Oh, judging by what I've seen here, I'll be here for a while to come. lol

Quote: Originally Posted by CannuckView Post

Silly claims are not the same as lies. Nice try though. Surely you can do better than that.

Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

And continue to do so.

It's OK cannuck. You don't have to address them. That says far more about them and you, than I can.

Quote: Originally Posted by CannuckView Post

I have said repeatedly that I am prepared to address them if you ever bother to point them out. All you've ever done is provide links to your own threads where you repeat your accusations. It's nice that you find something to keep you busy.

Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

I hate to sound like a broken record, but with people who are artful at dodging and dancing around, like yourself, it's sometimes a hazard.



And will continue to do so.

Simply because you know you were wrong, but lack the fortitude to admit it.

It's OK cannuck, you seem to be the only person under the impression you have any credibility, are not a hypocrite, and have shown, or will show anything resembling integrity.

Carry on, your posts simply prove my point.

Quote: Originally Posted by CannuckView Post

So now you are saying I was wrong. Being wrong isn't a synonym for lying. Maybe it would help if you didn't keep switching your story.

Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

We already know you don't think lying is wrong. Hence the song and dance, and lack of fortitude on your part.

Carry on.

Quote: Originally Posted by CannuckView Post

Yes, if I lied then it could be considered wrong but as of yet, you haven't established that. Carry on.

Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

You're the only one that says that. I would have said "thinks so". But you know you lied. Hence the dance.

No worries about that, I love pointing out the lies and hypocrisy of self proclaimed hypocrisy hunting problem solvers.

I get a laugh out of some things that never seem to change. lol You two sound exactly the same as you did before I left.
 
Cannuck
#96
Quote: Originally Posted by L GilbertView Post

You two sound exactly the same as you did before I left.

Ain't it the truth
 
CDNBear
+1
#97
Quote: Originally Posted by L GilbertView Post

You two sound exactly the same as you did before I left.

That's only because cannuck is incapable of growth.

Quote: Originally Posted by CannuckView Post

Ain't it the truth

Now that you admit that, you really should work on it.
 
L Gilbert
#98
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

That's only because cannuck is incapable of growth.

And you seem to prefer goading him into this non-growth. lol Not that I mind. It's quite funny at times.
 
CDNBear
+1
#99
Quote: Originally Posted by L GilbertView Post

And you seem to prefer goading him into this non-growth. lol Not that I mind. It's quite funny at times.

I had nothing to do with his inability to learn. All there is to do with people like him, who lie and use generalizations to smear entire groups of people, is go for the haha's.
 
Cannuck
#100
Quote: Originally Posted by L GilbertView Post

And you seem to prefer goading him into this non-growth. lol Not that I mind. It's quite funny at times.

This is the wrong place to be if one is looking for growth.
 
CDNBear
#101
Quote: Originally Posted by CannuckView Post

This is the wrong place to be if one is looking for growth.

True, thanks to people like you who lie and use generalizations. There's no mental nutrition in the crap you peddle.

Wow though, you finally got something right!
 
ironsides
#102
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

The influence of tree huggers with an agenda, on the perspectives of some FN's people, is part of the reason many reserves lose out on lucrative deals.

Given full Canadian citizenship? Many have no need of it. Some have even created Warrior societies to prevent it!

I know, some here did that also and could not get a passport. I think they got one eventually.
 
dumpthemonarchy
#103
There is nothing to pay Indians for anything, there is no need any longer. Canada is a sovereign nation and no longer has any power realations like with any aboriginal people in Canada. Canada pays money, aboriginals take it. The flow of benefits is all one way. There is no need to make "payments" of any sort any longer by the Canadian taxpayers. Reform is needed here.

The "technical" issue of whether Canada is "really" aboriginal land is a non--issue, and it requires closure in the near future. There is no chance, zero, of aboriginals getting Canada back, Canadians going back to Europe, and going back to a pre-Columbian era. Zero. the current corrupt system feeds too many at an increasing public cost, with fewer benefits each year.
 
gerryh
+1
#104
Canada has legal obligations. If you don't like it, you can always fu ck off and go live somewhere else.
 
dumpthemonarchy
#105
Legal obligations, bore me. Over time, legal obligations and the cash will vanish.

I'm not going anywhere, I'm here forever.
 
ironsides
#106
No there is no need to give them anything, declare them sovereign nations within Canada. By doing that you also five them to all mineral, oil rights as well as anything else found on their lands. If necessary charge them some form of tax for keeping Canada's military umbrella over them. Show them how to run a country and turn them loose.
 
SLM
+2
#107
Quote: Originally Posted by dumpthemonarchyView Post

Legal obligations, bore me. Over time, legal obligations and the cash will vanish.

Pity the individual who ever signs a contract with you then.

Quote:

I'm not going anywhere, I'm here forever.

And neither are First Nations and treaties. So there you have it.
 
gerryh
#108
Quote: Originally Posted by ironsidesView Post

No there is no need to give them anything, declare them sovereign nations within Canada. By doing that you also five them to all mineral, oil rights as well as anything else found on their lands. If necessary charge them some form of tax for keeping Canada's military umbrella over them. Show them how to run a country and turn them loose.


Really, and we just stop making the treaty payments for the land that they "sold" to us. Is that right?
 
dumpthemonarchy
#109
Quote: Originally Posted by SLMView Post

Pity the individual who ever signs a contract with you then.

And neither are First Nations and treaties. So there you have it.

Nothing is eternal. There is no such thing as sacred, blessed by an invisible bogus creator. When circumstances change, like now. The British are gone, if any one has noticed, time to take another look at what was done in the 18th and 19th centuries. Are you one of those Mulroney "seemless web" types of the Charlottetown Accord? Oooh, don't touch our special handiwork.

Now women can legally sign contracts, thtey could not do so in the 18th and 19th centuries because women were the property of men. Women obeyed what their husbands and fathers told them, when the women were adults. That age is now gone. Who's for going back to that?
 
gerryh
+2
#110
Quote: Originally Posted by dumpthemonarchyView Post

Nothing is eternal. There is no such thing as sacred, blessed by an invisible bogus creator. When circumstances change, like now. The British are gone, if any one has noticed, time to take another look at what was done in the 18th and 19th centuries. Are you one of those Mulroney "seemless web" types of the Charlottetown Accord? Oooh, don't touch our special handiwork.

Now women can legally sign contracts, thtey could not do so in the 18th and 19th centuries because women were the property of men. Women obeyed what their husbands and fathers told them, when the women were adults. That age is now gone. Who's for going back to that?


The treaty contracts are eternal. Read them. Canada has legal obligations to First Nations. You want to end treaty payments, then renegotiate a fixed sum buy out, but don't figure on that number being any where near small.
 
SLM
+2
#111
Quote: Originally Posted by dumpthemonarchyView Post

Nothing is eternal. There is no such thing as sacred, blessed by an invisible bogus creator. When circumstances change, like now. The British are gone, if any one has noticed, time to take another look at what was done in the 18th and 19th centuries. Are you one of those Mulroney "seemless web" types of the Charlottetown Accord? Oooh, don't touch our special handiwork.

Now women can legally sign contracts, thtey could not do so in the 18th and 19th centuries because women were the property of men. Women obeyed what their husbands and fathers told them, when the women were adults. That age is now gone. Who's for going back to that?

What difference would a woman signing a contract mean to you? Legal obligations bore you, remember?

And Mulroney was a dick.
 
oleoleolanda
#112
Quote: Originally Posted by dumpthemonarchyView Post

So-called spirituality should be private, and lawyers use this as part of a legal argument. Nonsense.
There are plenty of Canadians who believe people who live in Canada should be Canadians, they shouldn't consider themselves visitors to Canada. And silly boy, you don't need to be white to be Canadian. What we are getting constantly getting is people thinking they can live outside the system but are willing to enjoy the spoils of it. I see no logic in that and little good for the country. Tribal mentalities don't believe in equality and democracy, you need masses and millions for that, and it's called a nation state.
If you believe in the concept of citizen, like I do, you cannot be a white supremecist. Duh.
PC crowd here, anyone who disagrees with them get mud hurled at them, that's you Cliffy. Want immigration reduced from historic highs? RACIST!!!!!!! some say. No, just an intolerant representative of the PC crowd losing their marbles and wanting to limit discussion. Name callers are allowed, but they have to be called on their intolerance.
So, how much legal title do aboriginals get? Where does it end? It is not in my interest to never see an endgame here. Every year aboriginal issues cost more and seem less solveable. As a Canadian, I see a problem of endless process here. I don't like that.

Quote has been trimmed, See full post: View Post
We have provincial and national parks in Canada because to some extent we all have a connection to the land, really. We protect that land for that reason. So if you think about that, it can help you understand what the aboriginal connection to the land is. But if you've ever spoken with an aboriginal Canadian and listened, you'll realize it's far deeper than that and it is a very spiritual connection to the lands. Do you know there's research now that is finding people actually need nature, that spiritual connection, for mental health and well being? There's something we can learn here, rather than dismiss it. From what I understand, when they're making a decision that will affect the land, aboriginal's people think about its impaict on the next seven generations. I'm no environmentalist, but I think that's a pretty responsible and long term type of thinking that we can also learn from.

I don't think aboriginal issues are not solvable. There's a lot of entrepreneurship right now among aboriginals, there's a growing determination to achieve self sufficiency. There's a long way to go but I think before we can get into criticisms and disagreements, we have to also show some respect for where respect is due. The wisom of aboriginal spiritual connection to the land is one area that we should respect--and learn from.
 
taxslave
#113
Quote: Originally Posted by oleoleolandaView Post

We have provincial and national parks in Canada because to some extent we all have a connection to the land, really. We protect that land for that reason. So if you think about that, it can help you understand what the aboriginal connection to the land is. But if you've ever spoken with an aboriginal Canadian and listened, you'll realize it's far deeper than that and it is a very spiritual connection to the lands. Do you know there's research now that is finding people actually need nature, that spiritual connection, for mental health and well being? There's something we can learn here, rather than dismiss it. From what I understand, when they're making a decision that will affect the land, aboriginal's people think about its impaict on the next seven generations. I'm no environmentalist, but I think that's a pretty responsible and long term type of thinking that we can also learn from.
I don't think aboriginal issues are not solvable. There's a lot of entrepreneurship right now among aboriginals, there's a growing determination to achieve self sufficiency. There's a long way to go but I think before we can get into criticisms and disagreements, we have to also show some respect for where respect is due. The wisom of aboriginal spiritual connection to the land is one area that we should respect--and learn from.

Quote has been trimmed, See full post: View Post
More correctly they are connected to the money harvesting the resources brings in. Just like everyone else. Only difference is that they don't have to get environmental certificates before starting a development or export permits for logs like the rest of us.
 
oleoleolanda
+2
#114
Quote: Originally Posted by dumpthemonarchyView Post

Most of us just yawn at the suicides because it natives don't care, no one else will. They are poor country people left to languish as rich govts and a rich country surrounds them. They are cultural prisoners living in squalor, yet they are surrounded by wealth. They are brainwashed into thinking that the white people will one day "get off our land and paradise will return." Yet their lawyer leaders keep pushing lush land claims that ensure they always have clean water, education and jobs. Pursuing legalities, but not justice. This patient will be on the operating table forever, always inches away from death. But clinically dead.

The money should concern us a bit, it's about ten billion per year from the federal govt. Let's see The $10 billion the feds spend on Indians does not include EI. Then there are welfare and medical costs from provincial govts.

$10,000,000,000 / 33,000,000 = $300 cost per Canadian per year in taxes for Indians
$10,000,000,000 / 1,200,000 = $8300 taxes to one Indian per year

Most of us care about high suicide rates among fellow human beings. I don't think I've ever met anyone before who would yawn about suicide of others just because he doesn't see them as part of his ethnic group.
 
ironsides
#115
Theoretically that could start up the aboriginal wars again. If the treaties were re-negotiated, would it be like two partners working out their living conditions or more like Big Brother telling little brother this is how it will be done, get used to it.
 
dumpthemonarchy
#116
Quote: Originally Posted by oleoleolandaView Post

We have provincial and national parks in Canada because to some extent we all have a connection to the land, really. We protect that land for that reason. So if you think about that, it can help you understand what the aboriginal connection to the land is. But if you've ever spoken with an aboriginal Canadian and listened, you'll realize it's far deeper than that and it is a very spiritual connection to the lands. Do you know there's research now that is finding people actually need nature, that spiritual connection, for mental health and well being? There's something we can learn here, rather than dismiss it. From what I understand, when they're making a decision that will affect the land, aboriginal's people think about its impaict on the next seven generations. I'm no environmentalist, but I think that's a pretty responsible and long term type of thinking that we can also learn from.
I don't think aboriginal issues are not solvable. There's a lot of entrepreneurship right now among aboriginals, there's a growing determination to achieve self sufficiency. There's a long way to go but I think before we can get into criticisms and disagreements, we have to also show some respect for where respect is due. The wisom of aboriginal spiritual connection to the land is one area that we should respect--and learn from.

Quote has been trimmed, See full post: View Post
Because aboriginals have lived in what is now called Canada for a long time, they may have something to say about the country. It is an old pre-Confederation story too. But no one knows it, we don't care as a country what they have to say because they don't call themselves Canadians. That's big thing nowadays. If you're in Canada and you don't call yourself a Canadian, you get far less attention and respect.

And there are a lot of people these days into spiritualism but aboriginals get little traction on this topic as far as I can see.
 
CDNBear
+3
#117
Quote: Originally Posted by dumpthemonarchyView Post

There is nothing to pay Indians for anything, there is no need any longer.

Are you still living in Canada?

Quote:

Canada is a sovereign nation and no longer has any power realations like with any aboriginal people in Canada.

By contract, Canada does.

Quote:

The flow of benefits is all one way.

Except the resources being used.

Quote:

The "technical" issue of whether Canada is "really" aboriginal land is a non--issue, and it requires closure in the near future.

There's land claims, but for the most part, the payments you keep crying about, are for the land and resource benefits Canada enjoys.

Quote:

There is no chance, zero, of aboriginals getting Canada back, Canadians going back to Europe, and going back to a pre-Columbian era. Zero.

True. But there is a very good chance of violence, if anyone like you ever got into power.

Quote: Originally Posted by dumpthemonarchyView Post

Legal obligations, bore me.

Because they clearly confuse the hell out of you.

Quote:

Over time, legal obligations and the cash will vanish.

I doubt you'll live long enough to see it.

Quote:

I'm not going anywhere, I'm here forever.

Pity that.

Quote: Originally Posted by dumpthemonarchyView Post

Nothing is eternal. There is no such thing as sacred, blessed by an invisible bogus creator.

What does that have to do with legally binding contracts?

Quote:

When circumstances change, like now. The British are gone, if any one has noticed, time to take another look at what was done in the 18th and 19th centuries.

Actually, that's a bad idea. You'll end up paying far more.

Quote:

Now women can legally sign contracts, thtey could not do so in the 18th and 19th centuries because women were the property of men. Women obeyed what their husbands and fathers told them, when the women were adults.

That's European thinking. Here, in the new world, many First Nations women were the leaders, the title holders, the ones that chose who would and would not lead.

If you had a degree in history, you'd already know that.

Quote: Originally Posted by dumpthemonarchyView Post

But no one knows it, we don't care as a country what they have to say because they don't call themselves Canadians.

Correction, you don't know it and because of that, you don't care.

Quote:

That's big thing nowadays. If you're in Canada and you don't call yourself a Canadian, you get far less attention and respect.

And I've asked you this before, which Nations claim sovereignty and which don't?

Quote:

And there are a lot of people these days into spiritualism but aboriginals get little traction on this topic as far as I can see.

You've made it perfectly clear, you're near sighted.
Last edited by CDNBear; Jan 12th, 2012 at 06:14 PM..
 
dumpthemonarchy
#118
It's perfectly normal to think a piece of paper like a treaty is forever if it gives like Santa Claus. Those who do the paying and giving though begin to wonder where are the benefits in return? What benefits go off-reserve? Any products or ideas? Lately, mostly horror stories.

Treaties are now illusions like the crown, the PM doesn't care much about the crown when he gives orders. He's the boss and others listen because he is elected and that is where his legitimacy and power come from. The PM would still the PM without the concept of the crown. Take away the crown and the machinery of govt would grind on. The concepts treaties were built on are now an afterthought that no longer mean or deliver what they once did. The legitimacy of treaties is looking shaky in the 21st century.
 
CDNBear
+4
#119
Quote: Originally Posted by dumpthemonarchyView Post

It's perfectly normal to think a piece of paper like a treaty is forever if it gives like Santa Claus.

Santa Claus takes your house for payment for the gifts he leaves?

Quote:

Those who do the paying and giving though begin to wonder where are the benefits in return? What benefits go off-reserve? Any products or ideas?

Or oil, timber, gold, silver, copper, zink, nickel, potash.

Quote:

Lately, mostly horror stories.

Like I said, lets not revisit the 1800's.

Quote:

Treaties are now illusions like the crown, the PM doesn't care much about the crown when he gives orders.

I can't wait to tell my bank that my mortgage is an illusion, and ask Harper why he's putting the Crown back in the titles, since he doesn't care about the Crown anymore.

Quote:

He's the boss and others listen because he is elected and that is where his legitimacy and power come from. The PM would still the PM without the concept of the crown. Take away the crown and the machinery of govt would grind on.

This is true, and treaties would still be binding.

Quote:

The concepts treaties were built on are now an afterthought that no longer mean or deliver what they once did.

Contractual law is an afterthought and no longer means or delivers what they once did?

Really?

Your fantasy world is weird.

Quote:

The legitimacy of treaties is looking shaky in the 21st century.

LOL, only to delusional people like you.
 
L Gilbert
+2
#120
Quote: Originally Posted by oleoleolandaView Post

So if you think about that, it can help you understand what the aboriginal connection to the land is. But if you've ever spoken with an aboriginal Canadian and listened, you'll realize it's far deeper than that and it is a very spiritual connection to the lands.

Actually, the connection to a lot of native's surroundings is nothing but spiritual. Entire religions, traditions, customs, etc. for natives were built upon their being a part of their environment, not just having a connection to it.

Quote: Originally Posted by taxslaveView Post

More correctly they are connected to the money harvesting the resources brings in. Just like everyone else. Only difference is that they don't have to get environmental certificates before starting a development or export permits for logs like the rest of us.

And even more correctly than that, some are and some aren't. But we are just as much at fault for this situation as they are.

Quote: Originally Posted by dumpthemonarchyView Post

Because aboriginals have lived in what is now called Canada for a long time, they may have something to say about the country. It is an old pre-Confederation story too. But no one knows it, we don't care as a country what they have to say because they don't call themselves Canadians. That's big thing nowadays. If you're in Canada and you don't call yourself a Canadian, you get far less attention and respect.

At least from SOME people. But then that's the nature of bigotry.

Quote:

And there are a lot of people these days into spiritualism but aboriginals get little traction on this topic as far as I can see.

because most of the rest of the population just don't understand that kind of spirituality. If the rest of the population has any inkling of spirituality at all, it's mostly deism and theism based upon a totally human-oriented philosophy. Native spirituality is based upon the entire planet as a whole, not just the human part of it.

Quote: Originally Posted by dumpthemonarchyView Post

It's perfectly normal to think a piece of paper like a treaty is forever if it gives like Santa Claus. Those who do the paying and giving though begin to wonder where are the benefits in return? What benefits go off-reserve? Any products or ideas? Lately, mostly horror stories.

Treaties are now illusions like the crown, the PM doesn't care much about the crown when he gives orders. He's the boss and others listen because he is elected and that is where his legitimacy and power come from. The PM would still the PM without the concept of the crown. Take away the crown and the machinery of govt would grind on. The concepts treaties were built on are now an afterthought that no longer mean or deliver what they once did. The legitimacy of treaties is looking shaky in the 21st century.

I wonder if the bank you got your mortgage from knows you think so little of treaties.
 

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