Michael Moore's 'Giving Ways'

[Curiosity]

Michael Moore's Giving Ways
I received this in the past week and kept it to share - interesting comparisons given here

Look at the earnings from Michael Moore's 'documentaries' and his comments about his audience to understand his motivations. In his films, Moore condemns the automotive, energy, healthcare, and other industries, claiming their intense greed compromises their ethics.

In contrast to the small to negative profit margins of the targets of his critiques, Moore the 'philanthropist' on the other hand, enjoys a 94% margin from his films, earning $292 million:

Roger and Me - $8 million
Bowling for Columbine $54 million
Fahrenheit 9-11 $216 million
Sicko $14 million (to date on $216 million in ticket sales)
Source: Box Office Mojo

And while portraying himself as a modern day savior for the downtrodden, Moore characterizes the audiences who enriched him as 'possibly the dumbest people on the planet', glibly noting that 'there is a gullible side to the American people. They can be easily misled.'

(He used these audience traits to captialize on tendering misinformation.)

Contrasting Moore's personal windfall from Sicko are laudable efforts for people to take note of such as those of the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation which funds a multitude of world health projects, including a recent $42 million grant to develop a malaria cure cheap enough to be given away to all the poor nations in the world.

Which will most benefit the heal of the population of our world?

A profiteer selling inflammatory half-truths
or
A sincere business group quietly funding decisive action?

Another self-enriching movie
or
Financing development of a cure for the 300 - 500 million people who will be newly infected with malaria just this year?

I think even the least of those who are 'easily led in ignorance' can comprehend the difference.

 

[s_lone]

Michael Moore certainly is no saint and his docs certainly aren't shining examples of neutral objectivity.

But whether he has good morals or not, he at least has the capacity to bring essential questions to the forefront...

like...

Why can't the US, one of the so-called most prosperous and succesful nations in the world, offer universal health care to its citizens while many other nations can? Why does it choose not to? Why is basic education viewed as something everyone should have access to and not something as basic as HEALTH?

 

[wallyj]

Basic health care is available in the U.S. You may not get the same quality as those with insurance,but they do not throw you out on the streets bleeding from gunshot wounds or dying of a heart attack. Watch any of the many trauma shows and you will see young gangbangers wheeled into emergency wards and their lives being saved.Do you think these guys have insurance or actually pay their bills?

 

[s_lone]

Basic health care is available in the U.S. You may not get the same quality as those with insurance,but they do not throw you out on the streets bleeding from gunshot wounds or dying of a heart attack. Watch any of the many trauma shows and you will see young gangbangers wheeled into emergency wards and their lives being saved.Do you think these guys have insurance or actually pay their bills?

But the question is... Why are they charged at all?

 

[YoungJoonKim]

Basic health care is available in the U.S. You may not get the same quality as those with insurance,but they do not throw you out on the streets bleeding from gunshot wounds or dying of a heart attack. Watch any of the many trauma shows and you will see young gangbangers wheeled into emergency wards and their lives being saved.Do you think these guys have insurance or actually pay their bills?

That is because the "law" prevents to do so..
They will treat people alright!
But I'm sure they will die of heart attack after they see the medical bill.

 

[YoungJoonKim]

I must ask..
so what if Michael Moore makes money?

Misled?
Misled to what?
What are we misled to believe?
The fact that people get denied because either they are too fat or too skinny?
THE FACT that it is widely known for us that so called donations they make to the world don't insure 40 million uninsured people?

 

[YoungJoonKim]

Does social justice include GIVE AWAY MONEY ROAR?
Does it must include charities and its loving and compassionate ways?
I don't think so.

 

[Curiosity]

Does social justice include GIVE AWAY MONEY ROAR?
Does it must include charities and its loving and compassionate ways?
I don't think so.

YoungJoonKim

Because Moore's thrust of his mockumentaries is equal services, jobs and rights for all - yet he cannot part with any of his own funds.... whereas Gates, Buffet and many other millionaires/billionaires fund many charitable works. He is the antithesis of his preaching..... here is an old article which describes him well... The author had him pegged way back in 2003 - and he has lived up to her predictions...
the Pied Piper of Whiners.

http://www.city-journal.org/html/13_3_michael_moore.html

I especially liked this quotation:

Moore’s moral stupidity, so ratcheted up by September 11, is likely to drive his next film, a documentary about the “twin errant sons of different oilmen”—George W. Bush and Usama bin Ladin. The filmmaker is hoping to release the movie, called Fahrenheit 9/11, a few months before the presidential election, to “make sure that Bush isn’t returned.” All signs point to his usual techniques—facts stripped of context and detail, dark insinuations, and outright lies, all leavened by pop music and Strangelovian irony.

Regarding your sarcastic and ignorant remark about medical care in the U.S.

I have been here nineteen years and have yet to be informed of anyone being refused medical care necessary to sustain life - be they insured, uninsured, rich man, poor man, begger, thief or undocumented immigrant.

Do your homework and stop pushing around untruths.

 

[s_lone]

I have been here nineteen years and have yet to be informed of anyone being refused medical care necessary to sustain life - be they insured, uninsured, rich man, poor man, begger, thief or undocumented immigrant.

Do your homework and stop pushing around untruths.

I know Canadian health care isn't free. We pay for it through our taxes... But I'd rather put my trust in a national health care insurance common to all citizens than in a health insurance company that's in it just for the profit.

What I'd like to know is why Americans feel it would be a bad thing to have universal health care common to all citzens?

 

[Curiosity]

I know Canadian health care isn't free. We pay for it through our taxes... But I'd rather put my trust in a national health care insurance common to all citizens than in a health insurance company that's in it just for the profit.

What I'd like to know is why Americans feel it would be a bad thing to have universal health care common to all citzens?

S_Lone

I doubt 'Americans' feel it would be a bad thing (it would be difficult to get 300 million people to agree totally on anything), but it would be expensive and if the government were to operate it, it would be yet another clustermess.

While we do not have 'universal healthcare' as you keep pointing out, I repeat, all people even undocumented people have access to health care in the U.S. It costs a great deal paying the bills for those who do not have coverage at all. If we have private or self-paying insurance, we are taking care of ourselves and a few others who cannot pay.
And yet you criticize.

That said, if the U.S. didn't have so many offshore commitments such as wars, giving AID to other nations in need, being expected to act as the military force for the United Nations in so many of their little experiments, it would be a slam dunk.

I am all for isolation to start with - pull everyone home, sort out individual needs, pay for education, healthcare, senior care, child care, all the social programs for which people qualified and were in need, that all the politicians have the same health programs as the general population are expected to have - and if they wish increased coverage, they would pay extra for it....it should be a choice ....

The U.S. is far too busy spending money elsewhere in unwinnable situations. An example I often use is the fifty plus years the military has been patrolling the DMZ between the two Koreas.... we could use that funding at home. This latest war is just a drop in the bucket compared with the international 'firefighting' the U.S. is automatically expected to supply.

 

[YoungJoonKim]

Regarding your sarcastic and ignorant remark about medical care in the U.S.

Thanks, its not ignorant and its not sarcastic.
Its based upon facts, not lies.
As long as facts do persist to exist, it is certainly a good idea to explore it.
Simply because you're community doesn't face the problem other "Individuals" face, doesn't mean it does NOT exist.
It exist whether you believe it or not.
It persist whether you wish to live in fairy land or not.

 

[YoungJoonKim]

I have simple question.
Are you denying the facts simply because you never experienced before or is it just simply being overly ignorant?

 

[Cosmo]

YoungJoonKim

Because Moore's thrust of his mockumentaries is equal services, jobs and rights for all - yet he cannot part with any of his own funds.... whereas Gates, Buffet and many other millionaires/billionaires fund many charitable works. He is the antithesis of his preaching..... here is an old article which describes him well... The author had him pegged way back in 2003 - and he has lived up to her predictions...
the Pied Piper of Whiners.

http://www.city-journal.org/html/13_3_michael_moore.html

Regarding your sarcastic and ignorant remark about medical care in the U.S.

I have been here nineteen years and have yet to be informed of anyone being refused medical care necessary to sustain life - be they insured, uninsured, rich man, poor man, begger, thief or undocumented immigrant.

Do your homework and stop pushing around untruths.

Curio ... It's rare that you and I debate an issue. I actually enjoy it when we do since we seem able to disagree without going psycho on each other.

I am a Michael Moore fan. I think the man is both brave and crazy to stand up to an organization as enormous and as corrupt as the government. (Any government ... I don't trust any of them, but Bush is really waaay up there on my sh*t list.)

I don't agree with Moore's stand on everything. I'm a supporter of the right to bear arms. His stand on gun control is not one I can get behind. He has good points, but because I am willing to do my own research and able to apply the knowledge to myself, my life, my community, my country, I have come to the conclusion his views are not right for me. If I lived in downtown Detroit or the projects of New York or the bad part of L.A., my opinion may be quite different. I've never seen a drive-by shooting so it's not really relevant to me.

Ok, Sicko ... I think Moore did an outstanding job of highlighting some serious problems. His point about the 9/11 workers really pissed me off. There are a million stories, all heart breaking. If you doubt that, drop "9-11 workers" into a Google search engine and see what comes up. I only bothered to check the first 8 pages of hits before deciding the top stories were about 9-11 workers having serious health issues that are not being addressed or aided by the government.

How can Moore be wrong about his stand on that? I can't come up with a single argument to dispute Moore's claims. Can you? These are our heros (Canada too ... there were a lot of Canadians there and dammit, it was right next door!) and they are being treated as though they did nothing out of the ordinary. They are being treated worse than Gitmo Bay detainees! And don't even get me started on Gitmo Bay ...:angryfire:

One thing I did notice is your source is very, very right wing. Every publication (and person) unfailingly marshals the facts to fit their own truths and the article about Moore is no exception. I had a peek through some of their other articles. Yi. Seriously right wing. It is not a fair and unbiased look at Moore's movie, Sicko, so quotes from the article are suspect. To me, at least.

You did say that Moore makes a ton of loot from his movies. Good for him! We're all trying to do that. Your comment that he doesn't give back, however, is erroneous. Even if he didn't choose to contribute monetarily, what Moore has given society is invaluable. He makes people question issues, gets them talking (we're proof), and makes people more socially aware, whichever side of the issue they are on. I think that's a good thing. The more attention people pay, the more accountable the rule makers must be.

Moore does at least influence people with money ... the Weinstein Company (which produced Sicko) is donating a big chunk of change to the cause:

8/11 for 9/11: On 8/11/07 The Weinstein Company will donate 11% of their profits from 'SiCKO' to the 9/11 rescue workers who are not receiving the care that they should get. Remember, if we had universal health care, the 9/11 rescue workers wouldn't be going through this struggle right now.

Whether Moore gives from the bank account or the heart, I think the guy is doing good things. He didn't always make big bucks but he's always dedicated his life to his beliefs. I find that admirable whatever his bank balance.

As for backing up his facts, I won't bother to get into a point by point discussion. Folks can Google it and get more info than they can use. ~shrug~ I did, however, find the page at Moore's site interesting ... 'SiCKO' Factual Backup. He didn't pull it out of thin air.

I found the interview with Wolf Blitzer (where Moore handed Blitzer his butt) was pretty telling. You can view it here.

Canada's health care isn't perfect, but dang, we are lucky up here in the frozen north! I wouldn't want to break a leg or have a baby in the U.S.

Moore is abrasive but the man does "ask the hard questions" and doesn't allow politicians and media to wiggle out from under.

 

[s_lone]

S_Lone

I doubt 'Americans' feel it would be a bad thing (it would be difficult to get 300 million people to agree totally on anything), but it would be expensive and if the government were to operate it, it would be yet another clustermess.

Of course, it would imply raising the taxes... It would only be a clustermess with a clustermess of a government.

While we do not have 'universal healthcare' as you keep pointing out, I repeat, all people even undocumented people have access to health care in the U.S. It costs a great deal paying the bills for those who do not have coverage at all. If we have private or self-paying insurance, we are taking care of ourselves and a few others who cannot pay.
And yet you criticize.

I'm trying to understand the mentality that is all. Of course, I was born in Canada and take health care for granted. I just find it's amazing to know everybody is looking after everybody by contributing to the national health care. I guess that makes me a socialist...

That doesn't change the fact that our own health care is a mess... A LOT of work needs to be done to improve its efficiency.

That said, if the U.S. didn't have so many offshore commitments such as wars, giving AID to other nations in need, being expected to act as the military force for the United Nations in so many of their little experiments, it would be a slam dunk.

I am all for isolation to start with - pull everyone home, sort out individual needs, pay for education, healthcare, senior care, child care, all the social programs for which people qualified and were in need, that all the politicians have the same health programs as the general population are expected to have - and if they wish increased coverage, they would pay extra for it....it should be a choice ....

The U.S. is far too busy spending money elsewhere in unwinnable situations. An example I often use is the fifty plus years the military has been patrolling the DMZ between the two Koreas.... we could use that funding at home. This latest war is just a drop in the bucket compared with the international 'firefighting' the U.S. is automatically expected to supply.

I get your point about the US putting so much effort and money in the rest of the world... But that's a whole other debate...

 

[YoungJoonKim]

I found the interview with Wolf Blitzer (where Moore handed Blitzer his butt) was pretty telling. You can view it here.

To be honest, I think Michael just went mad there because of CNN inefficiency. Well, he had all the reason to be mad anyways...who wouldn't be mad if institutions are bashing him for speaking out?

But anyways..I think CNN and pharmaceutical companies (sponsors of CNN...speaking of witch) made mistake by letting this guy on their*** channel. I feel sorry for them..

 

[Cosmo]

YoungJoonKim ... I just wonder whether Wolf will have Moore on again in 3 years and have to apologize for the crap being slung at Sicko. I agree that having Moore on their show was not in their favour. Makes me wonder what pressure was brought to bear for that to happen?

Moore does ask the questions that CNN ducks and spins around. I find CNN not a reliable source for details of anything important. They do cover events in a timely manner but they certainly are adept at spin.

 

[YoungJoonKim]

CNN do, in fact, cover some issues that questions U.S. government.
And when they do, I feel SO skeptical with *sponsors* they have and the fact the they have to get permission from U.S. government to present something in their news.

p.s.
Those charities which is made by the companies/corporation is profit from YOURRE Money.
Just let you know since I find it funny.

 

[Cosmo]

p.s.
Those charities which is made by the companies/corporation is profit from YOURRE Money.
Just let you know since I find it funny.

Ya, but once they got it in their pockets it's up to them what they do with it.

 

[YoungJoonKim]

Ya, but once they got it in their pockets it's up to them what they do with it.

Hey wait!
Isn't that what capitalists are fighting?!!
Only difference is that corporation are using some nice tricks such as exploitation and dropping wages so low for low income families, they keep their profit high high high!
Government, however, are actually being honest and asking for $$ in FRONT of their faces, in return, for some social funding...if that government is morally right on track*.
Final difference is, people can control the funding in the government...and we can't control corporations because they are persons and they have freedom and liberty???!!!
OHH wonderful

 

[wallyj]

First off,youngjoon kim ,you picked moore as the hollywood personality you would most like to bed. That is bad,bad, bad no matter gay or not. That is just really,really bad,try to pick someone that knows basic hygiene. Curiousity,I was a fan of moore's for years. I grew up in Windsor,Ont. and did four years on the line. He was my hero after 'Roger and me',I lived through that era. I was a fan of Alien Nation,I have read all of his books,up till 'Stupid white Men'. As an aside , there is a book called "Rivethead" that was written by a worker on the line that is a very good read,promoted by moore.That promotion was probably his last altruistic act. Mikey is sapping an uneducated America to line his pockets. It is sad,but it is the truth. Moore has convinced many people to never vote Republican with his lies and America and the world will bear the brunt of his lies.