Regarding my "islamic terrorist buddies"

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
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If, and it is a big if you post anything critical of your islamic terrorist buddies I will believe you are not a jew hater.

You and many other people here on this forum may have a mistaken belief that I do not criticize Palestinian militants for their violations of international law and war crimes. (...more likely you are just deliberately inventing stuff about me to discredit me).

Unlike my critiques who only condemn Palestinian war crimes, I have condemned both Israel and Palestinian violations of international repeatedly in previous posts and if you don't believe me, see the referenced posts at the end of this post.

I admit I tend to focus on Israeli war crimes, but that's because unlike Palestinian war crimes, Israeli war crimes aren't reported in the MSM nearly as much as Palestinian war crimes and Canada's current government unshakably supports Israel despite their criminal activity, and is silent regarding Israeli war crimes and crimes against humanity. All Canadians should have a problem with the position of our government regarding this conflict. Unfortunately, most Canadians are ignorant of Israel's criminal activity, which is why I tend to focus on filling that void with relevant verifiable information from reliable sources.

Since I am repeatedly accused of having "islamist terrorist buddies" and "supporting terrorism", I am making this post to end once and for all any question that I never condemn Palestinian war criminals. But to be fair and balanced, I'm going to list all the war crimes in this conflict and I challenge my critics to equally condemn both Israeli and Palestinian war crimes and crimes against humanity as I have...

For the record here is a list of illegal activities from this conflict that I condemn equally:

A) Palestinian war crimes and violations of international law.

1) Gilad Shalit is a soldier who belongs to the Israeli armed forces and was captured during an enemy incursion into Israel. Gilad Shalit meets the requirements for prisoner-of-war status under the Third Geneva Convention. As such, he should be protected, treated humanely and be allowed external communication as appropriate according to that Convention. ICRC should be allowed to visit him without delay. Information about his condition should also be provided promptly to his family.

2) Palestinian armed groups fail to distinguish between military targets and the civilian population and civilian objects in southern Israel. Since the launching of rockets and mortars which cannot be aimed with sufficient precisions at military targets breaches the fundamental principle of distinction. Where there is no intended military target and the rockets and mortars are launched into civilian areas, they constitute a deliberate attack against the civilian population. These actions would constitute war crimes and may amount to crimes against humanity.

3) Gaza authorities (Hamas) carried out extrajudicial executions, arbitrary arrests, detentions and ill-treatment of people, in particular political opponents, which constitute serious violations of the human rights to life, to liberty and security of the person, to freedom from torture or cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment, to be protected against arbitrary arrest and detention, to a fair and impartial legal proceeding; and to freedom of opinion and expression, including freedom to hold opinions without interference.

4) The Palestinian Authority’s (Fatah) actions against political opponents (primarily Hamas) in the West Bank violate international human rights law and Palestinian Law. Detentions on political grounds violate the rights to liberty and security of person, to a fair trial and the right not to be discriminated against on the basis of one’s political opinion, which are all part of customary international law. Also I am against torture and other forms of ill-treatment during arrest and detention and of death in detention in violation of Palestinian and international law.

B) Israeli war crimes, crimes against humanity and violations of international law:

1)Israel does not take feasible precautions required by customary law reflected in article 57 (2) (a) (ii) of Additional Protocol I to avoid or minimize incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians and damage to civilian objects. I refer to the IDF's indiscriminate use of white phosphorus, high explosive artillery and flechettes in densely populated urban areas and specifically on or adjacent to UN facilities, bomb shelters, hospitals, schools/universities and fire stations which violated articles 18 and 19 of the Fourth Geneva Convention because their use in these areas predictably caused excessive damage to civilians and civilian infrastructure. Israel had more precise weapons in their arsenal which could have accomplished the same military objectives without causing extensive civilian collateral damage.

2) Israel's deliberate attacks on civilians and civilian objects (individuals, whole families, houses, mosques) in violation of the fundamental international humanitarian law principle of distinction, resulting in deaths and serious injuries. These deliberate attacks in clear violation of customary law reflected in article 51 (2) and 75 of Additional Protocol I, article 27 of the Fourth Geneva Convention and articles 6 and 7 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights. In some cases, these attacks clearly had no military purpose and were for the sole purpose of spreading terror among the civilian population. IN one attack, the IDF herded about 100 civilians into a building and then deliberately shelled it with high explosives, killing 35 people, the majority of whom were women and children.

3) Israel's deliberate attacks on ambulances and their deliberate targeting of medics and ambulance drivers are war crimes. Also, Israel's armed forces blocked the access of humanitarian organizations to evacuate the wounded and provide medical relief, in violation of customary international law reflected in article 10 (2) of Additional Protocol I.

4) Israel deliberately attacked police stations killing large numbers of policemen during the first minutes of the military operations. In one case, Israel bombed a police cadet graduation ceremony, killing most of the cadets as well as elementary school children who were just queuing up for class across the street. Israel's failure to respect the principle of proportionality between the military advantage anticipated by killing some policemen who might have
been members of Palestinian armed groups and the loss of civilian life (the majority of policemen and members of the public in the police stations at the time of the attack (parents and families of the cadets) and school children nearby.

5) Israeli armed forces extensive use of Palestinian civilians including young children as human shields. I refer to the common IDF practice of abducting civilians at gunpoint and forcing them to enter houses which might be booby-trapped or harbour enemy combatants (aka the “neighbour procedure”, or “Johnnie procedure”) during the military operations. This cowardly use of human shields is prohibited by international humanitarian law and is a war crime.

6) Israel's abduction of civilians, threats of violence and death, detention without cause, torture and summary execution of civilians are war crimes. Israel's use of severe beatings, constant humiliating and degrading treatment and detention in foul conditions under the control of the Israeli armed forces and in detention in Israel, constitute a failure to treat protected persons humanely in violation of article 27 of the Fourth Geneva Convention, as well as violations of articles 7 and 10 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights regarding torture and the treatment of persons in detention, and of its article 14 with regard to due process guarantees. The treatment of women during detention was contrary to the special respect for women required under customary law as reflected in the article 76 of Additional Protocol I. During Operation Cast Lead, the IDF rounded-up of large groups of civilians and their prolonged detention under the above circumstances constitute a collective penalty on those persons in violation of article 33 of the Fourth Geneva Convention and article 50 of the Hague Regulations. Such treatment amounts to measures
of intimidation or terror prohibited by article 33 of the Fourth Geneva Convention.

7) Deliberate demolitions of civilian infrastructure are war crimes. IDF attacks against the Palestinian Legislative Council building and the main prison in Gaza constituted deliberate attacks on civilian objects in violation of the rule of customary international humanitarian law whereby attacks must be strictly limited to military objectives. The Israeli armed forces also unlawfully and wantonly demolished without military necessity food production, food processing facilities (including mills, farm land, barns, farm animals and greenhouses), drinking-water installations, farms and animals in violation of the principle of distinction. This destruction was carried out with the purpose of denying sustenance to the civilian population, in violation of customary law reflected in article 54 (2) of the First Additional Protocol. Israeli armed forces carried out widespread destruction of private residential houses, water wells and water tanks unlawfully and wantonly. In addition to being violations of international humanitarian law, these extensive wanton acts of destruction amount to violations of Israel’s duties to respect the right to an adequate standard of living of the people in the Gaza Strip, which includes the rights to food, water and housing, as well as the right to the highest attainable standard of health, protected under articles 11 and 12 of the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights.

8 ) Israel's humanitarian aid blockade which limits food an medical aid for four years which has artificially caused 1.5 million people to suffer disease and malnutrition is a crime against humanity. The blockade policies implemented by Israel against the Gaza Strip, in particular the closure of or restrictions imposed on border crossings in the immediate period before the military operations, subjected the local population to extreme hardship and deprivations that amounted to a violation of Israel’s obligations as an occupying Power under the Fourth Geneva Convention. These measures led to a severe deterioration and regression in the levels of realization of economic and social rights of Palestinians in the Gaza Strip and weakened its social and economic fabric, leaving health, education, sanitation and other essential services in a very vulnerable position to cope with the immediate effects of the military operations. Israel has essentially violated its obligation to allow free passage of all consignments of medical and hospital objects, food and clothing that were needed to meet the urgent humanitarian needs of the civilian population in the context of the military operations, which is in violation of article 23 of the Fourth Geneva Convention. The conditions resulting from deliberate actions of the Israeli armed forces and the declared policies of the Government with regard to the Gaza Strip before, during and after the military operation cumulatively indicate the intention to inflict collective punishment on the people of the Gaza Strip and a clear violation of the provisions of article 33 of the Fourth Geneva Convention.

9) Treatment of Palestinians in the West Bank by Israeli security forces, included the use of excessive or lethal force during demonstrations. Israel has failed to fulfill its international obligations to protect the Palestinians from violence by private individuals (Israeli settler violence against Palestinians in the West Bank) under both international human rights law and international humanitarian law. In some instances security forces acquiesced to the acts of violence in violation of the prohibition against cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment. When this acquiescence occurs only in respect of violence against Palestinians by settlers and not vice versa, it would amount to discrimination on the basis of national origin, prohibited under ICCPR. Israel also violated a series of human rights by unlawfully repressing peaceful public demonstrations and using excessive force against demonstrators. The use of firearms, including live ammunition, and the use of snipers resulting in the death of demonstrators are a violation of article 6 of ICCPR as an arbitrary deprivation of life and indicate an intention or at least a recklessness towards causing harm to civilians which may amount to wilful killing. Israel's excessive use of force that resulted in injury rather than death constitutes violations of a number of standards, including articles 7 and 9 of ICCPR. These violations are compounded by the seemingly discriminatory “open fire regulations” for security forces dealing with demonstrations, based on the presence of persons with a particular nationality, violating the principle of non-discrimination in ICCPR (art. 2) as well as under article 27 of the Fourth Geneva Convention. Israel has failed to investigate, and when appropriate prosecute, acts by its agents or by third parties involving serious violations of international humanitarian law and human rights law. Israel's inaction of hold criminals accountable for assaulting and murdering Palestinians has created a culture of impunity where Israeli settlers and security forces can commit murder with little fear of criminal prosecution and as a result the level of settler and security force violence against Palestinians and their property has increased to the point where Palestinians cannot leave their homes without fear of being attacked and killed.


10) Israel's detention of political prisoners violates the right not to be arbitrarily detained, as protected by article 9of ICCPR. Israel has detained members of the Palestinian Legislative and members of their family based on their political affiliation and prevents those members from participating in the conduct of public affairs. Insofar as their detention is unrelated to their individual behavior, it constitutes collective punishment, prohibited by article 33 of the Fourth Geneva Convention. Information on the detention of large numbers of children and their treatment by Israeli security forces point to violations of their rights under ICCPR and the Convention on the Rights of the Child.


11) Israel's extensive restrictions on the movement and access of Palestinians in the West Bank are disproportionate to any legitimate objective served and in violation of article 27 of the Fourth Geneva Convention and article 12 of ICCPR, guaranteeing freedom of movement. Where checkpoints become a site of humiliation of the protected population by military or civilian operators, this may entail a violation of the customary law rule reflected in article 75 (2) (b) of Additional Protocol I.

12) Israel's continued construction of settlements in occupied territory constitutes a violation of article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention. The extensive destruction and appropriation of property, including land confiscation and house demolitions in the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, not justified by military necessity and carried out unlawfully and wantonly, amounts to a grave breach under article 147 of the Fourth Geneva Convention. Insofar as movement and access restrictions, the settlements and their infrastructure, demographic policies vis-à-vis Jerusalem and “Area C” of the West Bank, as well as the separation of Gaza from the West Bank, prevent a viable, contiguous and sovereign Palestinian State from arising, they are in violation of the jus cogens right to self determination.

reference
http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/docs/12session/A-HRC-12-48.pdf

>>>>>>>

I'm against all violence. I've never stated support for anyone but innocent civilians.Whether its a bus load of people attacked by a suicide bomber, a rocket fired in the direction of a city, a precision bomb which takes out a neighborhood or chemical weapons which sear human flesh to the bone. Its all terrorism and I'm against all of it. If I was in Israel, I'd be watching the people queuing up for the bus. If I was in Iran, I'd be watching the guy parking his motorcycle.; I report suspicious activity to the authorities regardless of which country I was in. In both cases, I'd like to see justice.
http://forums.canadiancontent.net/i...farting-around-iran-nukes-32.html#post1361026

Israel complains to UN that recent rockets and mortars fired into Israel contain White Phosphorus:
Israel complains to UN over rocket fire - Israel News, Ynetnews

If I understand Israel's viewpoint, they can legally use WP against Palestinians, but its a crime when Palestinians use it against them.
Israel admits using white phosphorous in attacks on Gaza - Times Online

IMO, using WP to scorch human bodies and melt flesh to the bone is a war crime regardless of who is on the giving or receiving end. But if Israel truly believes WP is a legitimate weapon, then why are they complaining when its used against them?

Hypocrisy: the state of pretending to have beliefs, opinions, virtues, feelings, qualities, or standards that one does not actually have. Hypocrisy involves the deception of others...

Palestinian rocket and mortar attacks against civilian targets are war crimes. The people responsible should be brought to justice.

Barraging densely populated civilian areas with heavy artillery and chemical weapons are war crimes. The people responsible should be brought to justice....
http://forums.canadiancontent.net/i...onal-report-operation-cast-4.html#post1349332

and so on.....
 
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lone wolf

Grossly Underrated
Nov 25, 2006
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I'm inclined to believe that yes people just can't (or can't be bothered to) understand that criticism is generally reserved for they with some redemptive qualities.
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
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It's kind of pathetic that you were forced to make this thread. Now we will be seeing all kinds of unwarranted equivocations.
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
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Ah Yes.....Israeli War Crimes....one at a time.

1. Bull****.
Obviously Israel takes every possible precaution, as is clear by the evidence that civilian to military casualties in the Cast Lead operation were on a ratio of 1:1 , as admitted by HAMAS. The usual ratio civilian:military is 10:1, and Israel is operating in the most densely populared area on earth.

2. Bull****.
Considering the low number of civilian casualties as quoted in (1), this is highly unlikely. Especially considering that you are talking about infantry moving the civilians, then artillery shelling the building. IF this even happened, it was in all probability an accident.

3. Bull****.
First of all, HAMAS and Hezbollah both have a history of using ambulances to transport fighters and weapons. That makes ambulances fair game. Secondly, you need to prove that Israel's policy was to prevent aid from reaching casualties without reason.

4. Bull****.
You keep posting this crap despite the fact you have been shown HAMAS's minister counting the Gazan police among the militants killed. Do you REALLY think anyone in Gaza is armed that is NOT HaMAS????? Legitimate target, by Hamas's own admission.

5. Somewhat Bull****.
Prove "extensive". And, BTW, if Israel has prosecuted and punished soldiers for the crime, it is NOT an Israeli war crime.......but, I do believe Israelis do this, and it is not right. Now, is it policy (a crime) or the act of individuals in combat?

So, in the first 5 you get 4 comple BS, and one partial BS.....you are running at 10%.

FAIL!

Gotta go, deal with the rest latter.
 

Unforgiven

Force majeure
May 28, 2007
6,770
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It's like this Eao, imagine if you will two guys. One a UFC fighter well equipped to handle himself in a physical confrontation, and this drunk guy who watched some Bruce Lee movies and is all hyped up. Now they both are set upon the same area and the UFC guy is setting up his exercise equipment all over the place, none too tidy when it comes to laundry and is a bit obnoxious about things but mainly he keeps to himself and adds to society in a positive way.

Now drunk guy doesn't like the crap all over the place, doesn't want a stupid gym in his livingroom and thinks obnoxious guys need their ass kicked. And since he's all hyper from watching the movie, he's going to take matters into his own hands and calls a couple of the boys over to tcb.

UFC dude after some pointless negotiation, tells the lot to go pound sand and the fight starts. Drunk guy gets his ass kicked and his friends get the living **** beat out of them. As they are backing up to leave, UFC guy tells them this is what they will get any time they want to fight him or screw with his gear. Drunk guy goes to his room and silks a bit, have a few more drinks, watches another Bruce Lee movies and comes out to get UFC guy to take all his junk and leave. UFC guys just says no and keeps on working out. Tosses a stinky sweaty towel over Drunk Guy and continues with what he is doing. Drunk Guy gets so made he rushes UFC guy and gets pummelled.

We watch as time and time again Drunk guy get beat down by UFC guy. No one likes to see it but UFC guy didn't start it. Drunk guy did and there is no consoling Drunk guy. All he can say is that he's going to kick UFC guys ass, which everyone knows isn't going to happen and when he is finally in the mood to talk things over, things settle down a little. Problem is he gets drinking and then he wants to fight, he brings up all the beatings he has received from UFC guy, how UFC guy is a trained fighter and how unfair it all is.

So the house is divided and though they argue about who gets what, a plan is sort of made for the two to live if not in peace, at least not at war with each other. Only problem is, every time there is a glimmer of hope that these two can get along, the Drunk guys friends come over and get loaded and talk some ****. Before you know it, the Bruce Lee movies are on, everyone is doing the Jeet Kun Do all over the house and inevitably Drunk guy take another crack at UFC guy. UFC guy has had enough of this and really starts to do some permanent damage to Drunk guy. One eye doesn't work right any more, walks with a limp now, has to sit to pee. Everyone else starts in on UFC guy and tells him he doesn't have to hurt Drunk guy that much, but in the middle of that, he comes Drunk guy, hammered again, hyped up again and taking yet another run at UFC guy.

Every time anyone stands up for Drunk guy, he gets sloshed and goes starting yet another fight. He always loses the fight, but each time, he gives UFC guy a little scar here and there. Bug Drunk guy is looking pretty bad. One day UFC guy tells everyone that he's had enough. Drunk guy is locked in his bedroom and only allowed out at certain times to do his stuff. Every time Drunk guy is let out, he's smashed and wanting to fight. It just gets worse for him every time he does this but he won't listen to reason, doesn't want to live with UFC guy but won't move out to another place where he can live in peace.

And so we have Israel and the Jews and the Palestinians. It could be a nice place and parts of it are, but Drunk guy still carries the grudge, though he's too old to really do much to UFC guy. UFC guy is always ready to talk about peace, willing to work toward it but we all know now what will happen. Drunk guy gets drunk, wants to fight and gets the **** kicked out of him every few months.

Now mostly no one who can make things better cares any more. UFC guy breaks some rules but Drunk guy breaks plenty more.

The Palestinians could use negotiation to bring about a better life for all Palestinians but they won't. They want to fight Israel and lose to the point that it's something they aspire to. Teach the kids to go get themselves killed for a lost cause that isn't going to get resolved that way.

Israel, like North Korea can at any time get it's leash yanked and correction given to come to heel. But not until they are safe from attacks. Sooner or later they are going to run out a Palestinians and the problem will be solved.
No one wants that except it seems the Palestinians. Cause when they are all gone, boy oh boy we'll all be sorry and miss them like crazy. Sad this is, once they are gone, it's just one less problem.
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
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EAO: Sorry dude but you discredit yourself. Just give the whole middle east thing a break. Nothing much will change in the next 100 years anyway.
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
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Colpy: Ah Yes.....Israeli War Crimes....one at a time.

1. Bull****.
Obviously Israel takes every possible precaution, as is clear by the evidence that civilian to military casualties in the Cast Lead operation were on a ratio of 1:1 , as admitted by HAMAS. The usual ratio civilian:military is 10:1, and Israel is operating in the most densely populared area on earth.

Dropping a 1 ton bomb on an apartment building in the middle of a densely populated urban area to assassinate a single person of interest. About a dozen people killed and many more injured.










IDF firebombs a UN warehouse full of food and medicine.

Israel opens investigation into white phosphorus use - Telegraph


The Israel Defense Forces fired at least three white phosphorus shells above this UN-run school in Beit Lahiya on January 17, 2009, killing 2 and wounding 14. The school was housing about 1,600 displaced persons at the time.


Israel: Military Investigations Fail Gaza War Victims | Human Rights Watch








2. Bull****.
Considering the low number of civilian casualties as quoted in (1), this is highly unlikely. Especially considering that you are talking about infantry moving the civilians, then artillery shelling the building. IF this even happened, it was in all probability an accident.




Israeli bombing of Gaza University


The initial attack by Israeli warplanes took place at 11am Gaza time on December 27, just as Palestinian children were breaking from school. The planes hit more than 40 target areas, killing more than 200 people in 15 minutes. Initial reports in the Israeli and international corporate media carried the Israeli government line that its military had targeted Hamas security compounds and sought to blame Hamas for the civilian deaths, saying that Hamas was using the civilian population as human shields by locating security compounds in civilian areas. The reality, however, is that many of the targets were Palestinian police stations and police training compounds, which like practically all police stations around the world, are located in civilian areas.

Live From Occupied Palestine: Why Israel commits war crimes


3. Bull****.
First of all, HAMAS and Hezbollah both have a history of using ambulances to transport fighters and weapons. That makes ambulances fair game. Secondly, you need to prove that Israel's policy was to prevent aid from reaching casualties without reason.

36....The Mission did not find any evidence to support the allegations that hospital
facilities were used by the Gaza authorities or by Palestinian armed groups to shield military
activities or that ambulances were used to transport combatants or for other military purposes...

43...In the majority of these incidents, the consequences of the Israeli attacks against civilians
were aggravated by their subsequent refusal to allow the evacuation of the wounded or to
permit access to ambulances...

68...Hospitals and ambulances were targeted by Israeli attacks...

471. The Mission investigated cases in which ambulances were denied access to wounded
Palestinians. Three cases in particular are described in chapter XI: the attempts of the Palestinian
Red Crescent Society (PRCS) to evacuate the wounded from the al-Samouni neighbourhood
south of Gaza City after the attack on the house of Ateya al-Samouni and after the shelling of the
house of Wa’el al-Samouni; the attempt of an ambulance driver to rescue the daughters of Khalid
and Kawthar Abd Rabbo in Izbat Abd Rabbo; and the attempt of an ambulance driver to
evacuate Rouhiyah al-Najjar after she had been hit by an Israeli sniper. In all three cases the
Mission found, on the facts it gathered, that the Israeli armed forces must have known that there
were no combatants among the people to be rescued or in the immediate vicinity.

623. In the light of all these considerations, the Mission finds that there are reasonable grounds
to believe that the hospital and the ambulance depot, as well as the ambulances themselves, were
the object of a direct attack by the Israeli armed forces in the area at the time and that the
hospital could not be described in any respect at that time as a military objective.

718. As soon as the first evacuees from the al-Samouni family arrived in Gaza City on
5 January, PRCS and ICRC requested permission from the Israeli armed forces to go into the
al Samouni neighbourhood to evacuate the wounded. These requests were denied. On 6 January
around 6.45 p.m., one ICRC car and four PRCS ambulances drove towards the al-Samouni area
in spite of the lack of coordination with the Israeli armed forces, but were not allowed to enter
the area and evacuate the wounded.

719. On 7 January 2009, the Israeli armed forces finally authorized ICRC and PRCS to go to
the al-Samouni area during the “temporary ceasefire” declared from 1 to 4 p.m. on that day.404
Three PRCS ambulances, an ICRC car and another car used to transport bodies drove down
Salah ad-Din Street from Gaza City until, 1.5 km north of the al-Samouni area, they found it
closed by sand mounds. ICRC tried to coordinate with the Israeli armed forces to have the road
opened, but they refused and asked the ambulance staff to walk the remaining 1.5 km.
720. Once in the al-Samouni neighbourhood, PRCS looked for survivors in the houses. An
ambulance driver who was part of the team told the Mission that in Wa’el al-Samouni’s house
they found 15 dead bodies and two seriously injured children.405 One of the children had a deep
wound in the shoulder, which was infected and giving off a foul odour. The children were
dehydrated and scared of the PRCS staff member. In a house close by, they found 11 persons in
one room, including a dead woman.

721. The rescue teams had only three hours for the entire operation and the evacuees were
physically weak and emotionally very unstable. The road had been damaged by the impact of
shells and the movement of Israeli armed forces, including tanks and bulldozers. The rescuers
put all the elderly on a cart and pulled it themselves for 1.5 kilometres to the place where they
had been forced to leave the ambulances. The dead bodies lying in the street or under the rubble,
among them women and children, as well as the dead they had found in the houses had to be left
behind. On the way back to the cars, PRCS staff entered one house where they found a man with
two broken legs. While they were carrying the man out of the house, the Israeli armed forces
started firing at the house, probably to warn that the three-hour “temporary ceasefire” were about
to expire. PRCS was not able to return to the area until 18 January.



4. Bull****.
You keep posting this crap despite the fact you have been shown HAMAS's minister counting the Gazan police among the militants killed. Do you REALLY think anyone in Gaza is armed that is NOT HaMAS????? Legitimate target, by Hamas's own admission.

32. The Israeli armed forces launched numerous attacks against buildings and persons of the
Gaza authorities. As far as attacks on buildings are concerned, the Mission examined the Israeli
strikes against the Palestinian Legislative Council building and the Gaza main prison (chap. VII).
Both buildings were destroyed and can no longer be used. Statements by Israeli Government and
armed forces representatives justified the attacks arguing that political and administrative
institutions in Gaza are part of the “Hamas terrorist infrastructure”. The Mission rejects this
position. It finds that there is no evidence that the Legislative Council building and the Gaza
main prison made an effective contribution to military action. On the information available to it,
the Mission finds that the attacks on these buildings constituted deliberate attacks on civilian
objects in violation of the rule of customary international humanitarian law whereby attacks must
be strictly limited to military objectives. These facts further indicate the commission of the grave
breach of extensive destruction of property, not justified by military necessity and carried out
unlawfully and wantonly.

33. The Mission examined the attacks against six police facilities, four of them during the first
minutes of the military operations on 27 December 2008, resulting in the death of 99 policemen
and nine members of the public. Overall, the approximately 240 policemen killed by Israeli
forces constitute more than one sixth of the Palestinian casualties.

34. To examine whether the attacks against the police were compatible with the principle of
distinction between civilian and military objects and persons, the Mission analysed the
institutional development of the Gaza police since Hamas took complete control of Gaza in July
2007 and merged the Gaza police with the “Executive Force” it had created after its election
victory. The Mission finds that, while a great number of the Gaza policemen were recruited
among Hamas supporters or members of Palestinian armed groups, the Gaza police were a
civilian law-enforcement agency. The Mission also concludes that the policemen killed on 27
December 2008 cannot be said to have been taking a direct part in hostilities and thus did not
lose their civilian immunity from direct attack as civilians on this basis. The Mission accepts that
there may be individual members of the Gaza police that were at the same time members of
Palestinian armed groups and thus combatants. It concludes, however, that the attacks against the
police facilities on the first day of the armed operations failed to strike an acceptable balance
between the direct military advantage anticipated (i.e. the killing of those policemen who may
have been members of Palestinian armed groups) and the loss of civilian life (i.e. the other
policemen killed and members of the public who would inevitably have been present or in the
vicinity), and therefore violated international humanitarian law.



5. Somewhat Bull****.
Prove "extensive". And, BTW, if Israel has prosecuted and punished soldiers for the crime, it is NOT an Israeli war crime.......but, I do believe Israelis do this, and it is not right. Now, is it policy (a crime) or the act of individuals in combat?

55. The Mission investigated four incidents in which the Israeli armed forces coerced
Palestinian civilian men at gunpoint to take part in house searches during the military operations
(chap. XIV). The men were blindfolded and handcuffed as they were forced to enter houses
ahead of the Israeli soldiers. In one of the incidents, Israeli soldiers repeatedly forced a man to
enter a house in which Palestinian combatants were hiding. Published testimonies of Israeli
soldiers who took part in the military operations confirm the continuation of this practice, despite
clear orders from Israel’s High Court to the armed forces to put an end to it and repeated public
assurances from the armed forces that the practice had been discontinued. The Mission
concludes that this practice amounts to the use of Palestinian civilians as human shields and is
therefore prohibited by international humanitarian law. It puts the right to life of the civilians at
risk in an arbitrary and unlawful manner and constitutes cruel and inhuman treatment. The use of
human shields also is a war crime. The Palestinian men used as human shields were questioned
under threat of death or injury to extract information about Hamas, Palestinian combatants and
tunnels. This constitutes a further violation of international humanitarian law.

1088. On the second day of detention, the Israeli armed forces began to use a number of the
detainees as human shields. At this point the detainees had been without food and without sleep
for a day. There were constant death threats and insults. To carry out house searches, the Israelis
took off AD/03’s blindfold but he remained handcuffed. He was forced to walk in front of the
soldiers and told that, if he saw someone in the house but failed to tell the Israeli soldiers, he
would be killed. He was instructed to search each room in each house cupboard by cupboard.
After one house was completed, he was taken to another house with a gun pressed against his
head and told to carry out the same search there. He was punched, slapped and insulted
throughout the process. AD/03 indicates that he was forced to do this twice while the group was
held in this house for eight days. Others were also required to do it. On the first occasion he was
forced to carry out searches in three houses and on the second occasion in four houses.

1090. The Mission found the foregoing witnesses to be credible and reliable. It has no reason to
doubt the veracity of their accounts and found that the different stories serve to support the
allegation that Palestinians were used as human shields.

Or you can read about the "Johnnie Procedure" here in the words of an IDF soldier:

Breaking the Silence
Soldier Testimonies from Operation Cast Lead


...We were there for a week, not doing too much – basically holding our positions,
being on the lookout, sending out an occasional search, taking another house
over to search it. At some point our officer decided he'd hold a grenade-launching
practice because we hadn't managed that before we entered. So we went to a
house next door, took an inner room, and each person came along and threw a
grenade inside. The house was totally devastated. At some point a grenade flew
out a window and hit a gas pipe, gas started leaking and we stopped the practice.
Went back. Occasionally some civilians would show up. Another force searched
a house nearby and found civilians inside. They assembled them, I don't know
what they did with them. One day some refugees, civilians, came in and were
searched and taken away, or assembled in the house next door. I think they had
been there the whole time. There was not much control over this. They were
used as ‘Johnnies’ (at a different point in the interview the witness described the
‘Johnnie’ procedure, using Palestinian civilians as human shields during house
searches), and then released, and we’re finding them in later searches.
http://www.shovrimshtika.org/UserFiles/File/ENGLISH_oferet.pdf


Good and Dedicated Fighters – Who Use Children As Human Shields by Abby Zimet

Though the Goldstone Report cited them for committing war crimes, two Israeli soldiers who used a nine-year-old Palestinian boy as a human shield - forcing him to open bags they thought held explosives during the assault on Gaza - each got three-month suspended sentences today, and slight demotions. Even so, Israeli lawmakers promptly appealed for a pardon. The practice is said to be common, and Israel has again lost all decent sense of itself. Noted the boy, Majed Rabah, now 11, "If an Israeli child was exposed to the same thing, the whole world would have turned against us. But when it's a Palestinian child, nothing happens."
Good and Dedicated Fighters ? Who Use Children As Human Shields | CommonDreams.org



So, in the first 5 you get 4 comple BS, and one partial BS.....you are running at 10%.

FAIL!

Gotta go, deal with the rest latter.

If, and it is a big if you post anything critical of your islamic terrorist buddies I will believe you are not a jew hater.

EAO: Sorry dude but you discredit yourself. Just give the whole middle east thing a break. Nothing much will change in the next 100 years anyway.
I agree that if Israel is allowed to continue committing war crimes and crimes against humanity with the unshakable support of Canada and most Western nations, then not much will change. Which is why I'm trying my best to make people face the ugly truth. Its about time Canada held Israeli war criminals to the same standard as Palestinians.

Also, I listed all Palestinian war crimes and condemned them. I noticed you didn't keep your word.
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
36,362
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Also, I listed all Palestinian war crimes and condemned them. I noticed you didn't keep your word.


Dude you didn't even begin to list islamic war crimes against Israel. Or don't you consider sending suicide bombers into schools and on busses war crimes?
 

damngrumpy

Executive Branch Member
Mar 16, 2005
9,949
21
38
kelowna bc
The Israelis and their Arab cousins and that is what they are, have been fighting for thousands of years
and no amount of peace will disrupt that. I wonder sometimes sitting over here in North America, why
they just don't go at it in a total war and finish the bloody thing off winner take all and everyone else sit
back and supply both sides until its done.
Crazy? Not really, we talk about war crimes and all those fancy phrases like the combatants even care.
During WWII there was all out total war between Germany and the Allies. Dresden, Coventry Berlin, and
London, all bombed to hell, no one cared about civilians then and really aside from lip service no one
cares about civilians now.
All these people who believe there is some kind of structure and rules for war. That is propaganda
consumption for the folks back home. My father used to laugh, saying anytime he was on duty at night
along the front, and he heard someone coming in he shot first and then asked who lies there. The
reason, when a patrol goes out, they come in somewhere else, there is a plan, and the only people that
would be coming in were enemy.
The same applies here, neither side cares about war crimes because they intend to win and will never
answer for them anyway. I watch these debates with amazement to think people still believe there is or
has been rules of war. The first rule is, there ain't no rules. The problem in many cases comes down to
being overly concerned about public opinion in time of war. Do you think Hamas or or the other groups
care about public opinion, or international rules of war? No they don't. But then neither does Israel. On
both sides all the alleged war criminals on both sides will be dead and gone before the war is resolved.
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
7,933
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Also, I listed all Palestinian war crimes and condemned them. I noticed you didn't keep your word.


Dude you didn't even begin to list islamic war crimes against Israel. Or don't you consider sending suicide bombers into schools and on busses war crimes?

See my first post:
I'm against all violence. I've never stated support for anyone but innocent civilians.Whether its a bus load of people attacked by a suicide bomber, a rocket fired in the direction of a city, a precision bomb which takes out a neighborhood or chemical weapons which sear human flesh to the bone. Its all terrorism and I'm against all of it. If I was in Israel, I'd be watching the people queuing up for the bus. If I was in Iran, I'd be watching the guy parking his motorcycle.; I report suspicious activity to the authorities regardless of which country I was in. In both cases, I'd like to see justice.​
But again for the record, I condemn the Palestinian use of suicide bombers against Israeli civilians.

Any other war crimes you'd like me to condemn?

I've noticed that none of my critics, including you, can condemn a single Israeli war crime.

DamnGrumpy,

You claim Arab and Jews have been fighting for thousands of years. I disagree. Muslims discriminated against non-Muslims since its founding, but in general, Muslims treated Jews and Christians equally badly.

The current conflict has it roots in the Zionist movement, which started in the late 19th century. Palestine was more or less peaceful until it was over run by Jewish refugees in the 1930's. This war started in earnest in 1947, when heavily armed Zionists and Jewish refugees began an ethnic cleansing campaign to rid Palestine of non-Jews. By the time the Zionists declared independence in 1948, hundreds of thousands of Arabs had already been cleansed from the new nation called Israel.

This war could have been settled back in 1949 if the World held Israel to the agreed conditions for UN recognition:
Israel violates the conditions for admittance into UN

Instead, most of the world including Canada has looked the other way as Israel violated international laws and treaties. This war won't end until Palestinians have freedom and justice.

But if you believe this conflict goes back thousands of years, then please list the battles and wars fought between Arabs and Jews in Palestine before the 1936 Arab revolt.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine
 
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CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
207
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Ontario
It's kind of pathetic that you made this thread.
FIFY.

Now we will be seeing all kinds of unwarranted equivocations.
It's quite warranted. EAO's words betray his claims of being a simple pacifist. His actions and own commentary prove he's lying.

I made claims as to the things he's stated about known terrorist groups, and he said I was making it up. I challenged him to state that clearly, he had never called the Hezbollah "freedom fighters". That Hamas was more honest then Israel. And a few others.

He chose to ignore that challenge.

You know why MF?

Because he has said it.

That betrays his claim of being a pacifist, who simply wants peace and safety for Palestinians.

EAO is simply out to demonize Israel, in the hopes of delegitimizing it. That way, it will be easier to destroy.

I've noticed that none of my critics, including you, can condemn a single Israeli war crime.
I can cite at minimum.6 posts in which, not only do I recognize the fact that Israel has committed war crimes, but even specified what ones "I" believe are war crimes.

This is just another fine example of you lying, simply because you wish to discredit your opponent.

Every claim I've made about you, I have and can prove, with your own words.

You can not say the same thing.

That is what separates you from a real critic, and an anti semite.
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
39,794
460
83
So, basically, both of you admit war crimes on either side but are still fighting?? why??

I'm just baffled why there is still any conflict if the argument is logically resolved.
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
7,933
53
48
CB, I try to ignore obnoxious trolls. You can safely assume that my posts are not in response to anything you wrote unless I name you specifically, as in this post.

I doubt I ever referred to Hezbollah as "freedom fighters". You are going to have to quote me.

Yes I believe I did write that Hamas's leaders have been more honest than Israel's leaders, but that's hardly high praise (considering the level of Israeli leader deceit: ****** Israel's War of Deceit, Lies and Propaganda******* : Information Clearing House - ICH ), let alone a statement of support for Hamas. Let me give you an example.

When Hamas said they would respect the terms of the 2008 ceasefire, their actions indicate they were truthful.
When Israel's leaders said they would allow the free flow of humanitarian aid in response, their actions indicate they were deceitful.

The truth is laid bare in this three page report:
http://www.cartercenter.org/resources/pdfs/peace/conflict_resolution/Gaza_movement_and_fatalities_report%20FINAL%201%2022%2009.pdf

It's like this Eao, imagine if you will two guys. One a UFC fighter well equipped to handle himself in a physical confrontation, and this drunk guy who watched some Bruce Lee movies and is all hyped up. Now they both are set upon the same area and the UFC guy is setting up his exercise equipment all over the place, none too tidy when it comes to laundry and is a bit obnoxious about things but mainly he keeps to himself and adds to society in a positive way.

Now drunk guy doesn't like the crap all over the place, doesn't want a stupid gym in his livingroom and thinks obnoxious guys need their ass kicked. And since he's all hyper from watching the movie, he's going to take matters into his own hands and calls a couple of the boys over to tcb.

UFC dude after some pointless negotiation, tells the lot to go pound sand and the fight starts. Drunk guy gets his ass kicked and his friends get the living **** beat out of them. As they are backing up to leave, UFC guy tells them this is what they will get any time they want to fight him or screw with his gear. Drunk guy goes to his room and silks a bit, have a few more drinks, watches another Bruce Lee movies and comes out to get UFC guy to take all his junk and leave. UFC guys just says no and keeps on working out. Tosses a stinky sweaty towel over Drunk Guy and continues with what he is doing. Drunk Guy gets so made he rushes UFC guy and gets pummelled.

We watch as time and time again Drunk guy get beat down by UFC guy. No one likes to see it but UFC guy didn't start it. Drunk guy did and there is no consoling Drunk guy. All he can say is that he's going to kick UFC guys ass, which everyone knows isn't going to happen and when he is finally in the mood to talk things over, things settle down a little. Problem is he gets drinking and then he wants to fight, he brings up all the beatings he has received from UFC guy, how UFC guy is a trained fighter and how unfair it all is.

So the house is divided and though they argue about who gets what, a plan is sort of made for the two to live if not in peace, at least not at war with each other. Only problem is, every time there is a glimmer of hope that these two can get along, the Drunk guys friends come over and get loaded and talk some ****. Before you know it, the Bruce Lee movies are on, everyone is doing the Jeet Kun Do all over the house and inevitably Drunk guy take another crack at UFC guy. UFC guy has had enough of this and really starts to do some permanent damage to Drunk guy. One eye doesn't work right any more, walks with a limp now, has to sit to pee. Everyone else starts in on UFC guy and tells him he doesn't have to hurt Drunk guy that much, but in the middle of that, he comes Drunk guy, hammered again, hyped up again and taking yet another run at UFC guy.

Every time anyone stands up for Drunk guy, he gets sloshed and goes starting yet another fight. He always loses the fight, but each time, he gives UFC guy a little scar here and there. Bug Drunk guy is looking pretty bad. One day UFC guy tells everyone that he's had enough. Drunk guy is locked in his bedroom and only allowed out at certain times to do his stuff. Every time Drunk guy is let out, he's smashed and wanting to fight. It just gets worse for him every time he does this but he won't listen to reason, doesn't want to live with UFC guy but won't move out to another place where he can live in peace.

And so we have Israel and the Jews and the Palestinians. It could be a nice place and parts of it are, but Drunk guy still carries the grudge, though he's too old to really do much to UFC guy. UFC guy is always ready to talk about peace, willing to work toward it but we all know now what will happen. Drunk guy gets drunk, wants to fight and gets the **** kicked out of him every few months.

Now mostly no one who can make things better cares any more. UFC guy breaks some rules but Drunk guy breaks plenty more.

The Palestinians could use negotiation to bring about a better life for all Palestinians but they won't. They want to fight Israel and lose to the point that it's something they aspire to. Teach the kids to go get themselves killed for a lost cause that isn't going to get resolved that way.

Israel, like North Korea can at any time get it's leash yanked and correction given to come to heel. But not until they are safe from attacks. Sooner or later they are going to run out a Palestinians and the problem will be solved.
No one wants that except it seems the Palestinians. Cause when they are all gone, boy oh boy we'll all be sorry and miss them like crazy. Sad this is, once they are gone, it's just one less problem.
Yet another person who can't condemn Israeli war crimes and crimes against humanity. I would have thought forcing children at gunpoint to act as human shields would have crossed a line for everyone, but judging from the lack of condemnation, it appears most people here on this forum support this activity.

Now if I understand your post correctly Unforgiven, you believe that at the current rate Israel is killing Palestinians, eventually they will run out of Palestinians to kill.
...Sooner or later they are going to run out a Palestinians and the problem will be solved.
No one wants that except it seems the Palestinians. Cause when they are all gone, boy oh boy we'll all be sorry and miss them like crazy. Sad this is, once they are gone, it's just one less problem.
Since the Palestinian birth rate exceeds the Israeli kill rate, that's not going to happen unless the Israelis increase their kill rate or decrease the Palestinian birth rate.

Perhaps you can recommend ways that Israelis exterminate Palestinians more efficiently.

I doubt shooting them one at a time would be sufficient.


Israel would have to exterminate millions of Palestinians to solve this problem.

I'm not sure it could be done, since similar mass exterminations have been attempted in the past, yet none ever succeeded completely.

Mass sterilization has also been attempted in the past too, but its its far less expensive to kill people than perform surgery.

So how do you propose Israel accomplish a "Final Solution" to the Palestinian "Problem"?
 

Unforgiven

Force majeure
May 28, 2007
6,770
137
63
Yet another person who can't condemn Israeli war crimes and crimes against humanity. I would have thought forcing children at gunpoint to act as human shields would have crossed a line for everyone, but judging from the lack of condemnation, it appears most people here on this forum support this activity.

Normal people pull their children off the streets and hide them away when violence breaks out. Palestinians send them out to throw rocks and provide fodder of tragic pictures they then use as propaganda. If they want their children killed so badly why is it a surprise that their enemies accept that position? No one here supports that but if that is how the Palestinians are going to fight, then blame them.

Now if I understand your post correctly Unforgiven, you believe that at the current rate Israel is killing Palestinians, eventually they will run out of Palestinians to kill.
Since the Palestinian birth rate exceeds the Israeli kill rate, that's not going to happen unless the Israelis increase their kill rate or decrease the Palestinian birth rate.

Nature will take it's course.

Perhaps you can recommend ways that Israelis exterminate Palestinians more efficiently.

Palestinians do it themselves. Suicide by cop doesn't make anyone feel bad for the idiot who commits suicide by cop.

I doubt shooting them one at a time would be sufficient.

Again, sending your children out to fight soldiers isn't parenting. Hell it's not even human.

Israel would have to exterminate millions of Palestinians to solve this problem.

So you say that Israel has to kill millions of Palestinians to solve this problem?

I'm not sure it could be done, since similar mass exterminations have been attempted in the past, yet none ever succeeded completely.

I don't think it's the goal for Israel to commit genocide on Palestinians. Getting killed by IDF has become the alternative of choice by Palestinians to making something of themselves and building a future.

Mass sterilization has also been attempted in the past too, but its its far less expensive to kill people than perform surgery.

In general, most people with atleast a modicum of intelligence will desist in creating babies if at all possible. Who would want to willingly bring a child into a war zone? Palestinians have made a meal out of making martyrs out of children rather than seeking a way to live in peace. I won't lose any sleep over it.

So how do you propose Israel accomplish a "Final Solution" to the Palestinian "Problem"?

Typical anti-semetic remark coming from a out of the closet Jew hater. The Israelis have done a fine job so far. Very tolerant of Palestinian aggression and only acting to protect Israelis from rocket attacks and suicide bombers. Israel is growing and progressing as a society and culture inspite of Palestinian and dare I say Arab backwardness and hatred. Until Palestinians choose to work toward peace and building a sustainable future living along side Israelis, they doom themselves to this sort of suffering. The Israelis can help solve the Palestinian problem by protecting themselves and when the Palestinian people choose to move forward, be as willing to facilitate that as ever. Palestinians can harm themselves and their culture all they want, the rest of the world has nothing but time.
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
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Saint John, N.B.
Normal people pull their children off the streets and hide them away when violence breaks out. Palestinians send them out to throw rocks and provide fodder of tragic pictures they then use as propaganda. If they want their children killed so badly why is it a surprise that their enemies accept that position? No one here supports that but if that is how the Palestinians are going to fight, then blame them.

.

Exactly, couldn't have said it better myself...

And, of course, Israeli police, being Jews, are expected to line up peacefully to have their heads bashed in with rocks.

Yes I believe I did write that Hamas's leaders have been more honest than Israel's leaders, but that's hardly high praise (considering the level of Israeli leader deceit: ****** Israel's War of Deceit, Lies and Propaganda******* : Information Clearing House - ICH ), let alone a statement of support for Hamas. Let me give you an example.



The truth is laid bare in this three page report:
http://www.cartercenter.org/resourc...ement_and_fatalities_report FINAL 1 22 09.pdf


Yet another person who can't condemn Israeli war crimes and crimes against humanity. I would have thought forcing children at gunpoint to act as human shields would have crossed a line for everyone, but judging from the lack of condemnation, it appears most people here on this forum support this activity.

Now if I understand your post correctly Unforgiven, you believe that at the current rate Israel is killing Palestinians, eventually they will run out of Palestinians to kill.
Since the Palestinian birth rate exceeds the Israeli kill rate, that's not going to happen unless the Israelis increase their kill rate or decrease the Palestinian birth rate.

Perhaps you can recommend ways that Israelis exterminate Palestinians more efficiently.

I doubt shooting them one at a time would be sufficient.


Israel would have to exterminate millions of Palestinians to solve this problem.

I'm not sure it could be done, since similar mass exterminations have been attempted in the past, yet none ever succeeded completely.

Mass sterilization has also been attempted in the past too, but its its far less expensive to kill people than perform surgery.

So how do you propose Israel accomplish a "Final Solution" to the Palestinian "Problem"?

Oh, and pic one? The Israeli with the M-16? I LOVE that one!

A wonderful pic to encourage emotional response from ignorant hand-wringers..."Look at that monster about to shoot that innocent child!!!"

Except......

1. Although the angle of the photograph makes it somewhat appear that the weapon is pointed at the child, it is not at all clear on close examination that is the case.....look closely at his left arm....it is not extended, on close examination it is clear he is holding the weapon across his chest, it is not pointed anywhere near the child, it is only the chance camera angle that makes it appear that way.

2. The weapon is NOT shouldered in the firing position. Look at his right shoulder, you can clearly see the butt is not against his shoulder.....it is across it, as the weapon is being held across his chest.

3. The Israeli's trigger finger is in the proper position, straight out along the frame of the weapon, NOT inside the trigger guard, much less on the trigger.

He is not ready to fire the weapon, nor is he pointing it at anyone..

You should really quit drinking the purple kool-aid of Islamist propaganda......

And, considering their history, the accusation of genocide against Israelis is particularly distasteful.......it clearly flies in the face of all the facts and the demographics, and the fact you continue to put it forward is absolute proof of your Jew-hatred...........
 
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earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
7,933
53
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Unforgiven,
Perhaps you can explain what you meant when you wrote:

"...Sooner or later they are going to run out a Palestinians and the problem will be solved.
No one wants that except it seems the Palestinians. Cause when they are all gone, boy oh boy we'll all be sorry and miss them like crazy. Sad this is, once they are gone, it's just one less problem...."

This sure sounds like support for exterminating Palestinians in order to solve the Palestinian problem.

BTW, I noticed that you still haven't condemn a single Israeli war crime or crime against humanity. Your post seems mostly focused on justifying killing Palestinian children. Apparently you believe that Palestinian parents aren't human like us, since they send their children out onto the streets to die, rather than love them like normal human parents.

You should watch this video from Israel, since it completely contradicts your statements.
YouTube - Gaza doctor's tragedy caught on Israeli TV - 17 Jan 09
Do you believe this Palestinian doctor wanted the IDF to kill his daughters for propaganda purposes?

I'm hoping the video might convince you that most Palestinians are human and most Palestinian parents love their children, just like the rest of us. But based on you lack of condemnation of Israeli war crimes and crimes against humanity and your apparent belief that the Palestinian people are a problem that can be solved by killing all of them, I doubt I will convince you that Palestinians are human beings.

Your last paragraph where you denounce me as Jew Hater is just the standard fall back defense of Israeli war crimes and crimes against humanity apologists. I'm agnostic, but I would never criticize anyone's belief system, let alone hate an entire religious group. Judaism is a cultural and religious identity. Zionism is a political movement. They aren't the same thing, despite claims by Zionists. Criticism of the state of Israel, its policies, or the idea of a Jewish state does not by itself constitute anti-Semitism. Dismissing critics of Israel or of Zionism as "anti-Semitic" is just a means of stifling debate and change the topic.

For the record I support the the goals of these Jewish groups:

Welcome to Jews for a Just Peace
Not In Our Name (NION): Jewish Voices Opposing Zionism
Jews Against the Occupation
Neturei Karta - Orthodox Jews United Against Zionism
Jewish Voice for Peace
 

lone wolf

Grossly Underrated
Nov 25, 2006
32,493
210
63
In the bush near Sudbury
That's okay.... When Israel runs out of Palestinians, there are Lebanese, Syrians, Turks, Arabs. It seems pretty obvious they don't want to get along with anyone anyhow.

ATTENTION YES PEOPLE: "They" is two-sided thing
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
Benevolent exercise of the upper hand is a rare thing indeed.Puking hate filled inanities about the moral superiority of the barbaric flexing of Israels overwhelming upper hand is common, the basest vitriol from the very bottom of human expression and experience.This is the way of total war, there are no exceptions, except exceptional deceit. So anyone fooled by pleading for the false paradise of peaceful Zionist coexistence are their victims in waiting or their garbage spewing minions grasping for the top of the heap. That's all there is to it, Zionist liars versus human beings. Do you want a planet called Israel or will you defend earth and love? Strip away the religion, strip away the race, strip away the words, look only at the fruit of the actions.
 

Unforgiven

Force majeure
May 28, 2007
6,770
137
63
Unforgiven,
Perhaps you can explain what you meant when you wrote:

"...Sooner or later they are going to run out a Palestinians and the problem will be solved.
No one wants that except it seems the Palestinians. Cause when they are all gone, boy oh boy we'll all be sorry and miss them like crazy. Sad this is, once they are gone, it's just one less problem...."

This sure sounds like support for exterminating Palestinians in order to solve the Palestinian problem.

I don't know why you fail to understand this, as it's a very simple concept. The Palestinians can't even come close to matching the Israelis militarily. The Israelis are by far the superior force. Right? You don't dispute that point do you? So by continuing to fight against the IDF in that manner is a lost cause because, the Palestinians will never best them militarily. To understand that and change tactics shows intelligence and a strategy that will eventually win. The Palestinians choose not to change tactics. They choose to run to the slaughter and provoke it, glory in it. Every nation in the world that wants peace has told them to stop and change to negotiation as a mean to settle their differences and come to peaceful coexistence. This is ignored and more violence is chosen.

They can grow in numbers until there is no way to support them and fall to epidemic illness, nature finds a way to cull the herd eventually. Whether it's Israeli bullets, a virus, some natural disaster, sooner or later, without working toward peace with the Israelis, something tragic will happen and there will be no infrastructure to support rescue and stability. It's brought upon themselves by their violent and unbalanced obsession with driving the Jews into the ocean.

I don't support exterminating Palestinians in order to solve the Palestinian problem, I just don't care about what happens to them any more. If they want to die that bad, then they can go right ahead and die.

BTW, I noticed that you still haven't condemn a single Israeli war crime or crime against humanity. Your post seems mostly focused on justifying killing Palestinian children. Apparently you believe that Palestinian parents aren't human like us, since they send their children out onto the streets to die, rather than love them like normal human parents.

When you play with fire, eventually you get your fingers burnt. Normal people don't send little children to fight soldiers with rocks. Anyone who would do that is a monster, not a human like me. If Palestinians want to use children as shields then they should accept that children are going to die along with those who try to kill Israeli children. If they want their children to die that bad, I have no problem with someone helping them out with it.

You should watch this video from Israel, since it completely contradicts your statements.
YouTube - Gaza doctor's tragedy caught on Israeli TV - 17 Jan 09
Do you believe this Palestinian doctor wanted the IDF to kill his daughters for propaganda purposes?

I did watch it. They blew up his house because a sniper was shooting from it. If the good doctor didn't want his house blown up and as it happens, his daughters, he wouldn't allow a sniper to shoot from it. What I don't understand is why you refuse to even acknowledge this concept. If there was no sniper then there would be no blown up house or children.

I'm hoping the video might convince you that most Palestinians are human and most Palestinian parents love their children, just like the rest of us. But based on you lack of condemnation of Israeli war crimes and crimes against humanity and your apparent belief that the Palestinian people are a problem that can be solved by killing all of them, I doubt I will convince you that Palestinians are human beings.

I know a few Palestinians that live near me and they are fine upstanding people. We get along great and share food at a monthly pot luck in my community. Never once have they allowed a sniper to shoot from their apartment. When there is a problem outside, and there have been a few, they never send their children out to throw rocks at the police. You're video didn't convince me of anything except what I already know is fact. Bad things happen to people who keep their kids in a sniper position. Just because people are stupid doesn't mean they deserve sympathy.

Your last paragraph where you denounce me as Jew Hater is just the standard fall back defense of Israeli war crimes and crimes against humanity apologists. I'm agnostic, but I would never criticize anyone's belief system, let alone hate an entire religious group. Judaism is a cultural and religious identity. Zionism is a political movement. They aren't the same thing, despite claims by Zionists. Criticism of the state of Israel, its policies, or the idea of a Jewish state does not by itself constitute anti-Semitism. Dismissing critics of Israel or of Zionism as "anti-Semitic" is just a means of stifling debate and change the topic.

Well it ain't the Catholics that are moving to Israel. I understand and support anyone who promotes peace and denounces violence. But you aren't doing that here. You're supporting Palestinians regardless of the violence they inflict on Jews and choose to over look the fact that terrorism is ripe in the Palestinian culture and they choose no other way of resolving the issues they have living with Jews. Criticism in context is just fine in my book but once it is taken out of context and used as a weapon to demoralize and spread propaganda, just like that video you liked to and a number of pictures you posted then you are no longer offering up an honest criticism but instead using a stick to beat another culture with.


Well good for you, what ever they are. I'm not about to go to half a dozen websites and spend my day wading through pages of fine print just to make the point that has already been made time and time again here.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
Benevolent exercise of the upper hand is a rare thing indeed.Puking hate filled inanities about the moral superiority of the barbaric flexing of Israels overwhelming upper hand is common, the basest vitriol from the very bottom of human expression and experience.This is the way of total war, there are no exceptions, except exceptional deceit. So anyone fooled by pleading for the false paradise of peaceful Zionist coexistence are their victims in waiting or their garbage spewing minions grasping for the top of the heap. That's all there is to it, Zionist liars versus human beings. Do you want a planet called Israel or will you defend earth and love? Strip away the religion, strip away the race, strip away the words, look only at the fruit of the actions.