Big Brother's watching: The secret CCTV bunker that monitors our every move

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
48,429
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Here's a fact: Britain has 20% - yes, 20% - of all the world's CCTV cameras.

This may seem like Big Brother, the British are quite happy with it....


Big Brother's watching: The secret CCTV bunker that monitors our every move

1st June 2007
Daily Mail

In a bunker beneath the bustling streets of central London, guards monitor a grid of closed-circuit television.

The centre, at a secret location, is run by a private company in association with the police and local council.

Polls show broad public acceptance, even if the cameras more often capture a couple in loving embrace than a terrorist about to wreak havoc.



Police say the average Briton is on as many as 300 cameras every day, usually unaware. One-fifth of the world's CCTV cameras are in Britain.


Britain has more than 4 million closed-circuit security cameras, more than any other Western democracy.

Police say the average Briton is on as many as 300 cameras every day, usually unaware.

The density of surveillance is significantly higher than in any other Western democracy, says Jen Corlew, spokeswoman for Liberty, a London-based human rights group.


Britain has more than 4 million closed-circuit security cameras - and the British people are happy


"We are sleepwalking towards a Big Brother society, not in one fell swoop but by stages," warns The Spectator, a conservative magazine.

"There is no boot stamping on a face: just an ever more insistent foot in the door."

But the vast majority of 4,000 people surveyed in 2005 said they believed that tapping phones, opening mail and following terror suspects were a price worth paying to stay safe, according to British Social Attitudes Report - an annual survey released in January.



In the UK there is roughly 1 camera for every 14 people


Some 81 percent thought tapping telephones and opening mail were prices worth paying. For terrorism suspects, 80 percent supported electronic tagging.

The British seem to have rallied around the idea that some long-accepted freedoms may have to be curbed in the face of a common enemy - in much the way an earlier generation of the British made sacrifices during World War II.

"When it comes to people's safety, I don't think they can go too far," said Jonathon Walkes, 29, a London lawyer.

"For the most part, we just go about our lives knowing that people are watching. I'm still rowdy after a night at the pub."

British authorities say people shouldn't worry about the close surveillance - unless they're doing something wrong.

"We appreciate that the cameras and some of the other measures are seen as invasive, but only people who really have something to worry about should be concerned," David Morgan, a Metropolitan Police Chief Superintendent, said on a tour of the bunker.

As he spoke, a series of seemingly private moments unfolded - ranging from a young couple stepping into the shadows for a kiss to a driver sneaking into a restricted bus lane.

dailymail.co.uk
 

s243a

Council Member
Mar 9, 2007
1,352
15
38
Calgary
Someone told me if you are roller blading in Britian the cops will be there righ away. How insane? I guess they like living in a police state.
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
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Ottawa, ON
Actually surveillance cameras don't bother me in the least as long as they are filming public and not private property. What's the difference between a police officer watching me bare-eyes and one watching me on a TV screen? With cameras police can keep an eye on many places at once, which makes their work more efficient. And like I said, they're filming public property anyway, so if I'm necking on public property, then tough for me if they catch me on camera. If I don't like it, then go home where the cameras are off-limits.

As for opening mail, however, and tapping telephones and such, now that does bother me since it digs into my private life. If they want to open my mail, it must be because I'm a bad person. If that's the case, then please show the courage to take me to court. If you can't do that, then leave my personal stuff alone.
 

Johnny Utah

Council Member
Mar 11, 2006
1,434
1
38
If I lived in Britain with the history of Terrorist Attacks by the IRA and the recent 7/7 Terrorist Attack in which CCTV was used to back track the Terrorists movemnts I wouldn't have a problem with it. Those who don't live in Britain and call it a "Police State" because of CCTV know nothing..
 

DaSleeper

Trolling Hypocrites
May 27, 2007
33,676
1,665
113
Northern Ontario,
Cameras with people holding them are everywhere these days. What is the difference if they are mounted on a post or a building somewhere. People probably shouted invasion of privacy when they were first installed in Banks and cash machines, but they do catch crooks and thatis what they are meant to do. And if they are used for anything else....it's a case for the courts to handle
 

Unforgiven

Force majeure
May 28, 2007
6,770
137
63
A camera in a public place is in and of itself not the problem. It's the invasion of privacy that is. I think everyone now knows that once you are out in public you are fair game. I can walk up and just start recording you and there is nothing you can do about it other than leave and go somewhere private. Your car isn't private either. Nor your backyard.

Where things get crazy is in your own home. Should you expect to have privacy in your own home or no? While I can't enter your home I can from off the property aim cameras at windows. Use other technology such as FLIR (Forward Looking Infrared) imaging to look at hotspots in your home and "backscatter" imaging now used at airports and who knows where else.
 

GreenFish66

House Member
Apr 16, 2008
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CTV News | Tories to introduce new child pornography laws

What is public , what is Private...In the end ,when all is said and done ..Does it matter on serious issues such as ...Child porn ..

Bill to change child porn laws to allow invasion of privacy?

Child porn is Up 900% ! WOW...Where do those numbers come from?That's scary ..Something Canadians shouldn"t be proud of.

However ,

Let's wait to see the details of the bill the conservatives "Plan to introduce"..

Child porn , although mostly viewed by curious children/teens,on their parents computers , is a sick and twisted perversion, and should definetly be confronted and curbed !

My concern is security and a Grey, shady conservative government using a "child porn " issue to infrindge on the rights, and personal freedoms of the majority/anyone, because of the twisted fantasies of a few. Knowing their will be no opposition..Sad but true ..

I feel security and government regulators know little on such issues...Hot Legal teens look better than milfs..Mostly..It's a fact of life...Censorship is not the cure...
Reality - 3minutes alone online, may stop perves from going any further on such fantasies..

"What else can we do ?.." one news pundent says

- Shut down the child porn sites.Take the pics of concern off line..If you know child porn is up 900% ..You already know where the problem lies.

How far do we go?...

Perhaps we should not allow any child programming on TV after 8 ..Adults only..!
If there is proof the law is being broken ..Arrest the perps/pervs.The Laws are already there.

Having said that.In the world of Porn ..It's not always that easy to determine legal or illegal..Consent from abuse..

Therefore
...It's a Slippery slope to allow" thought police" to start monitoring all internet traffic without restraint,without proper proof..On suspicion..Without ones knowledge..

Who regulates the regulator.?.!..What are qualifications /requirements to be part of the "thought police "?

Pray that your point and click finger doesn't accidently pulse on the wrong pic.. Trouble and a lot of irreversible embarassment could erupt..
.....and Everyone knows" IT" causes blindness..

Although noone will probably read this article or post because to type such fowel terms ,such as "child porn "into the search engine could be illegal and lead to you being monitored,without your knowledge and arrested for your interest in such perverted issues..!Will ruin your life..

In prison ..No one likes a pedifile but buba!

Bottom line - Next time your thinkin you should take things into your own hands ..It might be a deterrent just to think .."Big Brother is watching " ;) .Let's Hope watching others in the act , isn't a fetish of his(hers?)

I just finished watching 1984 again the other day....More true now than ever before...
 

Goober

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 23, 2009
24,691
116
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Moving
So you don't mind them seeing who you go home with every night?

There was quite a heated discussion going on in Britain a few years ago regarding the high number of surveillance cameras, invasion of privacy etc -

Guess what -

The London Bombings occurred - The CCTV provided important information that led to the identity of the bombers and others that were involved - including the later attempt to blow up other buses - they were caught as well.

Guess what

The discussion ended.
 

AnnaG

Hall of Fame Member
Jul 5, 2009
17,507
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CTV News | Tories to introduce new child pornography laws

What is public , what is Private...In the end ,when all is said and done ..Does it matter on serious issues such as ...Child porn ..
IMO, anything to do with those issues matters. Crimes are things that society has decided it can do without. Society developed a system to catch people who commit crimes. Society has issued rules governing how the system catches and deals with criminals. In public, IMO, any sort of investigation is fine. In private, society has rules about how far investigations can infringe upon personal freedoms. If some computer cop discovers something leading to a person having child porn on the computer, I think the cop should be able to stick his/her nose into the person's computer and look, or tap his phone or whatever to see if the person is sharing said child porn.

Bill to change child porn laws to allow invasion of privacy?

Child porn is Up 900% ! WOW...Where do those numbers come from?That's scary ..Something Canadians shouldn"t be proud of.
I would think those numbers come from the investigations.

However ,

Let's wait to see the details of the bill the conservatives "Plan to introduce"..

Child porn , although mostly viewed by curious children/teens,on their parents computers , is a sick and twisted perversion, and should definetly be confronted and curbed !

My concern is security and a Grey, shady conservative government using a "child porn " issue to infrindge on the rights, and personal freedoms of the majority/anyone, because of the twisted fantasies of a few. Knowing their will be no opposition..Sad but true ..
Any "true" evidence that this is the reason the government wants child porn laws?

I feel security and government regulators know little on such issues...Hot Legal teens look better than milfs..Mostly..It's a fact of life...Censorship is not the cure...
Laws against child porn aren't censorship. They define criminal behavior.
Reality - 3minutes alone online, may stop perves from going any further on such fantasies..
Huh?

"What else can we do ?.." one news pundent says

- Shut down the child porn sites.Take the pics of concern off line..If you know child porn is up 900% ..You already know where the problem lies.
Yeah. That'll be successful. Probably just as successful as the "war on drugs".

How far do we go?...
As far as the public wants to keep itself safe.

Perhaps we should not allow any child programming on TV after 8 ..Adults only..!
Now that's censorship.
If there is proof the law is being broken ..Arrest the perps/pervs.The Laws are already there.
What if the law only suspects there's a crime? They should let it go unchecked and only investigate the crimes?

Having said that.In the world of Porn ..It's not always that easy to determine legal or illegal..
No, but that's why we hire people trained to know the difference.
Consent from abuse..
Huh?

Therefore
...It's a Slippery slope to allow" thought police" to start monitoring all internet traffic without restraint,without proper proof..On suspicion..Without ones knowledge..
Thought police? How can someone police a thought?
Did anyone suggest that any police should monitor all internet action? I'd think it'd be an impossible task anyway, simply because of encryptions.

Who regulates the regulator.?.!..
The government that the people elect regulates and the people regulate the regulator. Where have you been?
What are qualifications /requirements to be part of the "thought police "?
I would think that would be up to whoever trains them. The government that we elect, for instance. How tough can it be to tell a 8 year old from an 18 year old?


Pray that your point and click finger doesn't accidently pulse on the wrong pic.. Trouble and a lot of irreversible embarassment could erupt..
.....and Everyone knows" IT" causes blindness..
Canada has a limit of 18 years old. Any porn producer follows that or it's dead in the water and it happens quickly. ISPs are pretty careful about what people use them for. So it's really tough to "accidently pulse" on the wrong pic.

Although noone will probably read this article or post because to type such fowel terms ,such as "child porn "into the search engine could be illegal
It is not illegal.
and lead to you being monitored,without your knowledge and arrested for your interest in such perverted issues..!Will ruin your life..
Not necessarily.

Watch this; I typed "child" and "porn" into google and hit the search button:

Child porn - Google Search



In prison ..No one likes a pedifile but buba!
Wrong. Most prisoners don't like pedophiles either. Pedophiles have to be segregated from the regular prison population to keep them safe.

Bottom line - Next time your thinkin you should take things into your own hands ..It might be a deterrent just to think .."Big Brother is watching " ;) .Let's Hope watching others in the act , isn't a fetish of his(hers?)

I just finished watching 1984 again the other day....More true now than ever before...
Phobic?
 

AnnaG

Hall of Fame Member
Jul 5, 2009
17,507
117
63
Anyway, back on topic;

I don't care if there's 20 cams at every half a block (except for the cost factor). In public it's fine. In private life, as long as the gov't keeps limiting surveillance to the suspects, I am fine with it. And that's because I follow the rules.
 

GreenFish66

House Member
Apr 16, 2008
2,717
10
38
www.myspace.com
CTV News | Tories to introduce new child pornography laws

What is public , what is Private...In the end ,when all is said and done ..Does it matter on serious issues such as ...Child porn ..

Bill to change child porn laws to allow invasion of privacy?

Child porn is Up 900% ! WOW...Where do those numbers come from?That's scary ..Something Canadians shouldn"t be proud of.

However ,

Let's wait to see the details of the bill the conservatives "Plan to introduce"..

Child porn , although mostly viewed by curious children/teens,on their parents computers , is a sick and twisted perversion, and should definetly be confronted and curbed !

My concern is security and a Grey, shady conservative government using a "child porn " issue to infrindge on the rights, and personal freedoms of the majority/anyone, because of the twisted fantasies of a few. Knowing their will be no opposition..Sad but true ..

I feel security and government regulators know little on such issues...Hot Legal teens look better than milfs..Mostly..It's a fact of life...Censorship is not the cure...
Reality - 3minutes alone online, may stop perves from going any further on such fantasies..

"What else can we do ?.." one news pundent says

- Shut down the child porn sites.Take the pics of concern off line..If you know child porn is up 900% ..You already know where the problem lies.

How far do we go?...

Perhaps we should not allow any child programming on TV after 8 ..Adults only..!
If there is proof the law is being broken ..Arrest the perps/pervs.The Laws are already there.

Having said that.In the world of Porn ..It's not always that easy to determine legal or illegal..Consent from abuse..

Therefore
...It's a Slippery slope to allow" thought police" to start monitoring all internet traffic without restraint,without proper proof..On suspicion..Without ones knowledge..

Who regulates the regulator.?.!..What are qualifications /requirements to be part of the "thought police "?

Pray that your point and click finger doesn't accidently pulse on the wrong pic.. Trouble and a lot of irreversible embarassment could erupt..
.....and Everyone knows" IT" causes blindness..

Although noone will probably read this article or post because to type such fowel terms ,such as "child porn "into the search engine could be illegal and lead to you being monitored,without your knowledge and arrested for your interest in such perverted issues..!Will ruin your life..

In prison ..No one likes a pedifile but buba!

Bottom line - Next time your thinkin you should take things into your own hands ..It might be a deterrent just to think .."Big Brother is watching " ;) .Let's Hope watching others in the act , isn't a fetish of his(hers?)

I just finished watching 1984 again the other day....More true now than ever before...


C -58 - Children protection act..
This is a good Bill dealing with a terrible reality..
I see no sneaky legaleeze, or ulterior motives in this bill that would raise any invasion of privacy issues for the general ,law abiding ,innocent internet user..see above post
This bill works best as a deterrent . Enforcing this bill, may raise some questions of concern, in the future...
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
109,396
11,449
113
Low Earth Orbit
What I wanna know is how many arrests of people scratching their taint have been made since inception of the program?
 

GreenFish66

House Member
Apr 16, 2008
2,717
10
38
www.myspace.com
Google Maps: An Invasion of Privacy? - TIME

EPIC - Facebook Privacy

Law Times

http://www.elcnetwork.ca/ebusiness/pwt_internet_privacy.pdf

Governor Charlie Crist Accidentally Sends Callers To Sex Hotline

Supreme Court case to test 'Internet luring' law


Watch who your talking to online !..If they're Underage.You could be monitored and throttled by "Big Brother"..."They".."Them".."Officer Himher"
 
 
So Who is Talking to our kids online.?..
 
 
Really...Hmmm .Ummmm .Let's see .....Parents,Aunt Mary ,Cousin John ,Long distance Friends,Bloggers ,Artists, Teachers, Doctors,Scientists, Anonymous others in RPG game rooms ...Strangers in Virtual shopping malls ..M.J. (Still)through lyrics on his myspace page......Who's really talkin to the kids?
 
..Do new internet laws/regulations expand into marketing ?.Freedom of information..?That amateur video .E-Book,E-Mail..Music/Lyrics...Britney Spears/Lady Gaga's advertising agency ..Anyone Marketing their product or giving "Questionable" information to anonymous teenagers?...A Twitter's Tweet to an unknown follower Blocked? ..A blog/ website holding unsavory information about someone that ,that "someone" ..doesn't/didn't like?..
Shut it down?...
 
How far should the long arm of the law be able to reach into our P.C.'s/Lap tops/Cell phones.Personal converstions... etc..?.
 
Where does Censorship /Security/ law enforcement become invasive ?..Cross the line into invasion of privacy?Intrude on /Interfere with the General Publics Rights and Freedoms/ An Individuals Personal Rights and Freedoms..?
 
The more I read all the new internet laws and regulations comin into force through older laws.........The More I begin to see Big biz and ,"out of Touch" Ignorant Governments throttling the individuals internet without fully understanding how the internet works..Without fully grasping all the great possiblities and potential a "free" Global internet has to offer .....
 
The internet and computer was designed for ; Gathering ,Calculating,Processessing,Storing and Sharing Information..
 
Most of all. .. "THEY" don't seem to fully understand what the long term effects of their Broad/over reaching laws will have, on the future success, of cyberspace, and its dedicated/loyal /Fee paying explorers.
They recklessly rush around, as if intentionally looking for any law or regulation they can find and subtly change , bend, toward some alternative ,hidden agenda.Anything that will stomp on the general publics freedoms .Even if it includes using alterior language and motives. Shady contraversial practices under "Contraversial ,Exploitive , suggestive " headings.
Too often legalese is misused and altered to serve other, "Broad spanning" interests/"far reaching" purposes. Crafters of such legal documents usually end up personally benefiting from the newly added vagueness , foreign ,incomprehensible legal jargon,tongue twisting words,and mind boggling phrases..Only to succeed in creating and exposing even more gapping loop holes and Grey areas to be filled ,sent through loops,confused to contraversy , tied up into knots , by other clever apprentices of literacy , word witchs and wizards......Knowing few will ever dare, care to question , or explore any further, all the underlying implications , within the documents mystifying contents .. 8O
 
In the end , all these changes never seem to accomplish or ammount to anything substantial, in the area it was originally proposed and designed for..Loosing its real genuine reason, true/ honest sense of good purpose .Always seems to have its roots based in Money ,Power ,Control .Steming out to enforce /impose it's will, upon its Slave drones . To abuse its newly aquired, ultimate, unbridled force over the general public and the whole of Cyberspace ...
 
There are many laws that protect/prevent people from becoming victums of criminal acts..It's when these laws themselves are exploited by Law makers /security /gov /big biz inorder to pass new ,shady ,( would normally be) contraversial internet regulations that infridge on everyones freedoms.All Under the banner/label " Contraversial ,Exploitive , suggestive ,Lurring Predator,terrorist.crisis .War On..Fear ..Panick...."..
 
Google?...Wonder if Google will have to change their name because it's suggestive..HMMM....
Let's see ....Say your...Googling someone on twitter and bringin them back to your.."myspace" page to show them somethin'..Listen to a song.........Could this be defined as lurring ?!..Sure, why not ?.... ..If ."Sargent Security " Thinks so ..."THEY'll " shut ya down!..Throttled!.Kicked Offline ..Fine is in the mail...For talkin to An Undesirable..... and because that song sucks! !....
Or
 
Let's just say your Leadin and Showin some" New Unknown" user Around "You Tube "...showin them various Vids ....and BAM!!...That's Unacceptable material ...Shut down..! ,cut off line and monitored regularly by " Big Brother"..."THEM".."THE WATCHERS!"...:)...
 
Or ...What if .
..Say ..I dont know.....You go to A friends "face book "page to check out there threads and wares...?..What if you find out they have just "Unfriended"... you..Is that UNACCEPTABLE PREDATORY BEHAVIOR!!....TRESPASSING!...
Busted !...By the 3rd man down from the currently Acting ,Head of Internet security, in Buckton ,Texas.... ..IP Daily , Blasts You...."Hey ..What' you doin' there..!?...Hidin' somethin there?.What have you got to hide?....Paranoid?..Why ya Twitchin.?...Where're your hands.!..LET ME SEE YOUR HANDS!,..Place them on the keyboard, where I can see them !..I've been Googlin you all day .Checkin you out...And I've decided ..You don't look right to me ....and... I don't like what your watching .....or where I think your headin......So That's it !...Cut off line!..Shut Down..Disconnected..!..Get outta here.!.Don't come round these parts no more..Hear?!"
 
Better keep an eye out for "THEY".."THEM"..."THE WATCHERS"..."BIG BROTHER.." the " OVER SEE'ERS!...CUZ THEY could be WATCHIN'!..Followin' your every move.. If they feel whatever you are doing is "Unacceptable".."Slanderous".."Predatory"."Insulting"..."Invasive"..."Just Plain Crazy"".Lurring." "Spelt wrong "..."Trepassing" :..Or Perhaps , you and your Damned, Dirty Rotten computer are just .."Out of date ..Too Slow .With nothing good to say about anything ....".....They'll throttle you, shut ya down, Kick ya offline.They'll come to your home,take your computer.Throw it on the ground ...Kick you when your down..!.Take your computer back to the lab and let everyone in the office check out your personal stuff...While your sitting there Handcuffed to the chair..Watching as everyone Laughs, at you ,as they Scold you ,before throwin ya in jail .......".HA.HA ..What have ya got to say for yourself now..Smart guy.?."........
 
Until they find you rightfully innocent in a court of law..!...(With the proper defense..)
 
"Ooops..Sorry bout that ...Your free to go ...By the Way ..I like the pic of you and your mom..Nice lookin wife and family .Givem my best would ya . ....And ..oh by the way ...Here's your computer back..." Legal advisor/Attorney at law/prosecutor/evidence handler /public relations representative , Hue "Styles"Bitchly ,Coldly apologizes ,Stone faced...
 
Ok ...Ok .Might be stretchin it a little ..Gettin off track ...I apologize ...
 
But ..
 
It's when The laws become so broad and far reaching ,enforcers begin to make victums out of the innocent .That's when laws become ineffective ..That's when the whole System Crashs !

 
 
Laws that genuinely work towards preventing true crime and the exploitation of vulnerable ,innocent victums is always welcome ..Justice must be enforced...As long as .. New Rules /Regulations/Laws/ Bills are clearly labelled and used for what they were originally intended for ..and no more. Or the diluted document's true purpose will be mostly ineffective , proven delusive ... Next to impossible to enforce..Counter productive and would lead to the demise ,and to the ultimate end of a great/useful information gathering and sharing tool..The internet..
 
 
I hope Freedom fighters and Privacy advocates are watching "The watchers" closely ,and will not be forced to silence / Censored from giving their opposing input on any contraversial issues concerning the peoples, hard fought, Rights and Personal Freedoms...!
 
OK ...I'm done now...;:)
Thanks for readin my rant..
 
 
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countryboy

Traditionally Progressive
Nov 30, 2009
3,686
39
48
BC
Google Maps: An Invasion of Privacy? - TIME


... 
OK ...I'm done now...;:)
Thanks for readin my rant..
 
 
-----------------------------------------

...And a pretty good rant it was! Totally agree with you on the stupidity of trying to pass laws like this. And you can bet it will cost us all lots of money too...I can just see it now - an Internet tax to cover the cost of monitoring devices. Pleeez! Wrong way to attack the problem.

The fight against child porn needs to start at home...and stay there.
 

AnnaG

Hall of Fame Member
Jul 5, 2009
17,507
117
63
I don't really give a hoot who watches me or sees what I have in my pc. I don't do illegal things (outside of speeding a little sometimes) and I don't have anything illegal in my pc or laptop. And I wander around nude in the summer in my gardens and have anti gov't cartoons and comments in my pc.