Call for a Peaceful End to Zionism

[earth_as_one]

Zionism:

Movement founded by the Viennese Jewish journalist Theodor Herzl, who argued in his 1896 book Der Judenstaat (The Jewish State) that the best way of avoiding anti-Semitism in Europe was to create an independent Jewish state in Palestine. Zionism was named after Mount Zion in Jerusalem, a symbol of the Jewish homeland in Palestine since the Babylonian captivity in the 6th century BC. The movement culminated in the birth of the state of Israel in 1948.
www.channel4.com/history/microsites/H/history/browse/glossary.html
[SIZE=-1]The movement dedicated to establishing a Jewish homeland in Palestine.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]www.pbs.org/daringtoresist/tgglossary.html[/SIZE]

The problem with Zionsim is that it doesn't take into account the people who lived in and around Palestine. These people lived here for thousands of years. Not only do these people precede the Zionsist state of Israel, some share the same ancestors as Jews. Likely some of these people descend directly from people which lived in Palesatine before Judaism existed. These people were never consulted, yet they paid the full price for the creation of a Zionist state which treats them differently because they are not Jewish.

Israel was imposed on them over their objections. Before Israel was created, terrorists had already begun ethnically cleansing Palestine. They tortured, raped and murdered innocent civilians both inside and outside areas reserved by the UN for a Jewish state. When Israel declared independance, these terrorists became Israel's leaders. The post 1948 war border/ceasefire attempted to legitimize the reality of a new hostile regime in the region.

It can't be a coincidence that Holocaust Day and Deir Yassin Day are the same day...

Quote:
Tuesday is Holocaust Day in Israel: and the anniversary of a 1948 massacre that triggered the Palestinian refugee crisis at the heart of today's conflict. Robert Fisk meets an Auschwitz survivor living at the site of the atrocity.
Quote:

Auschwitz -- "I will show you my museum," Josef Kleinman says, and scampers into a back room. He returns with a faded old khaki knapsack. "This is the shirt the Americans gave me after I was freed from Landsberg on 27 April 1945." It is a crumpled, cheap check shirt whose label is now illegible. Then he takes out a smock of blue and white stripes and a hat with the same stripes running front to back. "This is my uniform as a prisoner of Dachau."...
http://www.fromoccupiedpalestine.org/node/125

From a Palestinian's perception, thanks to outside intervention, terrorists moved in and started a war which continues to this day. Zionism has only increased anti-Semitism, not protected Jews from violence.

The horrors of The Holocaust accelerated the Zionist movement. Zionism may have been a solution for people fleeing Nazi Europe. But it created a new problem in Palestine. The architects of a Zionist state in Palestine failed to take into account the longterm implication on millions of non-Jews already living in Palestine. These people were never consulted, yet paid the full price. They lost everything.... property, a future, hope and their lives... Palestinians became the new Jews.

Each time Israel's Zionist leaders slaughter more innocent civilians, Arab/Muslim unity accelerates.

Palestinians will continue to fight for freedom and justice for as long as they suffer oppression and injustice. The Zionist solution is to impose harsher oppression and commit worse injustices. That only makes the problem worse.

In order for the Zionist state of Israel to exist, it must continually defeat its adversaries. In order for Zionist adversaries to win, they need only win once. Each time the Zionist state of Israel defeats its adversaries, its adversaries grow stronger. Over time, collapse is inevitable.

My concern isn't for the Zionist state of Israel, but the people of Israel. I don't believe in collective punishment. Most Israelis have not committed war crimes and do not want Palestinians to suffer. When the Zionist state of Israel falls, most Israelis should be allowed to stay without suffering oppression or injustice. People should not be awarded rights based on race/religion.

A fair and just society can only exist were each person has the same rights regardless of race or religion. Zionsim is a system where rights are based on race/religion system.

Quote:
"They say it is not possible to have a world without the United States and Zionism. But you know that this is a possible goal and slogan.
Quote:

Let's take a step back. We had a hostile regime in this country which was undemocratic, armed to the teeth and, with SAVAK, its security apparatus of SAVAK [the intelligence bureau of the Shah of Iran's government] watched everyone. An environment of terror existed.

When our dear Imam [Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, the founder of the Iranian revolution] said that the regime must be removed, many of those who claimed to be politically well-informed said it was not possible. All the corrupt governments were in support of the regime when Imam Khomeini started his movement. All the Western and Eastern countries supported the regime even after the massacre of September 7 [1978] and said the removal of the regime was not possible. But our people resisted and it is 27 years now that we have survived without a regime dependent on the United States.

The tyranny of the East and the West over the world should have to end, but weak people who can see only what lies in front of them cannot believe this. Who would believe that one day we could witness the collapse of the Eastern Empire? But we could watch its fall in our lifetime. And it collapsed in a way that we have to refer to libraries because no trace of it is left.

Imam [Khomeini] said Saddam must go and he said he would grow weaker than anyone could imagine. Now you see the man who spoke with such arrogance ten years ago that one would have thought he was immortal, is being tried in his own country in handcuffs and shackles by those who he believed supported him and with whose backing he committed his crimes.

Our dear Imam said that the occupying regime must be wiped off the map and this was a very wise statement. We cannot compromise over the issue of Palestine. Is it possible to create a new front in the heart of an old front. This would be a defeat and whoever accepts the legitimacy of this regime [Israel] has in fact, signed the defeat of the Islamic world.

Our dear Imam targeted the heart of the world oppressor in his struggle, meaning the occupying regime. I have no doubt that the new wave that has started in Palestine, and we witness it in the Islamic world too, will eliminate this disgraceful stain from the Islamic world."

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article12790.htm [/quote]

The above is the infamous quote by Ahmadinejad to "wipe (Israel) off the map". Most of us never read his entire speech and know only five words quoted out of context.

Ahmadinejad isn't calling for genocide, but for the collapse of a regime based on race and ethnic cleansing.

Ahmadinejad's demand for an end to Zionism is similar to demands to end South Africa Apartheid. When that regime fell, white South Africans didn't suffer genocide or discrimination. A call for an end to Zionism isn't a call for genocide but to rights based on race/religion. Its a call for an end race/religion based oppression and injustice.

All people, regardless of race/religion must have equality or war will continue.

The only solution which will lead to peace is for Israel to end Zionism and like the end of Apartheid will lead to peace in South Africa.

Ending Zionism means allowing four million displaced people the right to return to home and granting everyone the same rights (full Israeli citizenship). That would be freedom. Establishing a truth commission would be justice.

Given a choice between status quo "oppression and injustice", "national suicide" or "going down guns ablazing", ending Zionism is the least destructive, most just, path to peace.

 

[Zzarchov]

Uh huh, read a history book seriously.

I mean, seriously. Read some history books , to test if they are valid, make sure they do not reference the elder scrolls of Zion.

Do that and maybe you would see what is so wrong with this statement.




I mean seriously, that people can have such strong convictions with such faulty education really scares me sometimes.

But then again, I suppose you can't say anything positive about Israel from Iran so It is posisble you know your full of bunk but aren't allowed to do much about it.

 

[CDNBear]

Movement founded by the Viennese Jewish journalist Theodor Herzl, who argued in his 1896 book Der Judenstaat (The Jewish State) that the best way of avoiding anti-Semitism in Europe was to create an independent Jewish state in Palestine. Zionism was named after Mount Zion in Jerusalem, a symbol of the Jewish homeland in Palestine since the Babylonian captivity in the 6th century BC. The movement culminated in the birth of the state of Israel in 1948.
www.channel4.com/history/microsites/H/history/browse/glossary.html
[SIZE=-1]The movement dedicated to establishing a Jewish homeland in Palestine.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]www.pbs.org/daringtoresist/tgglossary.html[/SIZE]

I just love it when earth posts proof that Israel is where it should be, always was and should for ever more.

Then I read your post Zzarchov, and realize why he posts that way. lol. Good call Zzarchov.

 

[I think not]

If you believe this historical garbage EAO, I suggest you start packing. On your way out, make sure you ask the indigenous population of the "Village" for their forgiveness.

 

[CDNBear]

If you believe this historical garbage EAO, I suggest you start packing. On your way out, make sure you ask the indigenous population of the "Village" for their forgiveness.

I've made that point many times, only to have it dismissed or have it referred to as poppycock. Personaly, I see all these North American apogists as hypocrits. They squat on land that was either swindled, coerced or out right stolen from the indigenous peoples of North America, then point their collective boney fingures at Israel, as if Israel's acts are completely foriegn to them.

Anyone living in North America, that casts a vile view of Israel over their rightful lnad claim, is a hypocrit. Plain and simple.

I've even convinced several Native friends of mine of the same thing. They were of the impression, as our friend earth is here, that Israel was in the wrong. When in fact, if you do the most minute amount of historical research, you will find they have a legitimate claim to the land, as do the First Nations to North America. The word is spreading around our circles. Hopefully it won't be long before you see no more Six nations flags at Palestinian/Lebonese rallies.

 

[CDNBear]

Seeing as earth loves the cut and paste...



WHO ARE THE PALESTINIANS?
WHAT & WHERE is PALESTINE?
Please Note: The terms B.C. (Before Christ or Before the Christian Era) and A.D.("Anno Domini" Latin for "In the Year of Our Lord") have been replaced with B.C.E (Before the Common Era, or Christian, Era) and C.E. (the Common Era) so as to respect all visitors to this site. The terms are interchangeable and both are based upon the Gregorian Calendar.
These and other questions will be addressed more fully as you go through this website. However, there is a preliminary historical fact that must be established now. There has never been a civilization or a nation referred to as "Palestine" and the very notion of a "Palestinian Arab nation" having ancient attachments to the Holy Land going back to time immemorial is one of the biggest hoaxes ever perpetrated upon the world! There is not, nor has there ever been, a distinct "Palestinian" culture or language. Further, there has never been a Palestinian state governed BY Arab Palestinians in history, nor was there ever a serious Arab-Palestinian national movement until 1964... three years BEFORE the Arabs of "Palestine" lost the West Bank [Judea and Samaria] and Gaza as a result of the 1967 Six-Day War (which the Arabs started). Even the so-called leader of the "Palestinian" people, Yasser Arafat, is EGYPTIAN! In short, the so-called Arab "Palestinians" are a manufactured people...a people with no history and no authenticity... whose sole purpose for existence is to destroy the Jewish State!

Israel first became a nation in 1312 B.C.E., two thousand years before the rise of Islam! Seven hundred and twenty-six years later in 586 B.C.E. these first ancient Jews in the Land of Israel [Judea] were overrun and Israel's First Jewish Temple (on Jerusalem's Old City Temple Mount) was destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar, king of ancient Babylon. Many of the Jews were killed or expelled; however many were allowed to remain. These Jews along with their progeny and other Jews who would resettle over the next 500 years, rebuilt the Nation of Israel and also a Second Temple in Jerusalem upon the Temple Mount. Thus the claim that Jews suddenly appeared fifty years ago right after the Holocaust and drove out the Arabs is preposterous! ​

Then in 70 C.E. (nearly 2000 years ago), it was the Roman Empire's turn to march through ancient Israel and destroy the SECOND Jewish Temple, slaughtering or driving out much of its Jewish population. Many Jews left on their own because conditions for life were made unbearable in many respects... yet thousands upon thousands stayed and rebelled on for centuries in order to once again rebuild a Jewish Nation in this Holy Land.
Over 3250 years, various Peoples, Religions and Empires marched through Jerusalem, Israel's ancient capital. The region was successively ruled by the Hebrews [Jews], Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Greeks, Maccabeans, Romans, Byzantines, Arabs, Egyptians, the Crusaders, Mamelukes, the Turks (who indifferently governed the backward, neglected territory from the 16th century until the British drove them out during World War I) and then once again by the Jews in 1948. None bothered, nor were they in the least bit inclined, to build a Nation of their own... EXCEPT the Jews!
It must be noted that in 636 C.E., when the Arabs marauders came to the land and uprooted even more of its Jews, they did not form any Arab nation there... and certainly not a "Palestinian" nation. They were simply "Arabs" who, as did others before them, moved into a geo-political area called "Palestine!" And remember this one fact... it was not the Jews who "usurped" (a favorite word from the Arab propagandists) the land from the Arabs. If anything, it was the Arabs in 636 C.E. who overran and stole it from the Jews!
No nation, other than the ancient nation of Israel and later again in 1948 with the rebirth of the 2nd Nation of Israel, has ever ruled as a sovereign national entity on this land. A mighty Jewish empire extended over this entire area before the Arabs --- and their Islam --- were even born! The Jewish People have one of the most legitimate Birth Certificates of any nations in the world. Every time there is an archaeological dig in Israel, it does nothing but support the fact that the Jewish People have had a presence there for well over 3,000 years. The national coins, the pottery, the cities, the ancient Hebrew texts... all support this claim. Yes, other peoples have passed through, but there is no mistaking the fact that Jews have always had a continual presence in that land for over 3,000 years. This predates and certain dwarfs any claims that other peoples in the regions may have. The ancient Philistines are extinct. Many other ancient peoples are extinct. They do not have the unbroken line to this date that the Jews have. And if you want to talk religion, fine. G-d GAVE the Land of Israel to the Jewish People. And G-d does nothing by accident!​

ANCIENT MAPS
The Kingdom of David and Solomon - 1077 - 997 BCE
Kingdom of Herod- 30 BCE to 70 CE
Jewish Communities in the Land of Israel -7th-11th Centuries​

http://www.masada2000.org/

​

 

[CDNBear]

Oh boy more historic accuracy...

"PALESTINE?"

The term "Palestine" came from the name that the conquering Roman Empire gave the ancient Land of Israel in an attempt to obliterate and de-legitimize the Jewish presence in the Holy Land. The name "Palestine" was invented in the year 135 C.E. Before it was known as Judea, which was the southern kingdom of ancient Israel. The Roman Procurator in charge of the Judean-Israel territories was so angry at the Jews for revolting that he called for his historians and asked them who were the worst enemies of the Jews in their past history. The scribes said, "the Philistines." Thus, the Procurator declared that Land of Israel would from then forward be called "Philistia" [further bastardized into "Palaistina"] to dishonor the Jews and obliterate their history. Hence the name "Palestine."
One more thing. Very often one hears the revisionists and propagandists finding ancient historical links between the "Philistines" ("Invaders" in Hebrew) and the Arab "Palestinians." There is no truth to this claim! The Philistines were one of a number of Sea Peoples who reached the eastern Mediterranean region approximately 1250-1100 B.C.E. They were actually an amalgamation of various ethnic groups, primarily of Aegean and south-east European origin [Greece, Crete and Western Turkey] and they died out over 2500 years ago! Those Philistines were not Arab... and neither was Goliath! The Arabs of "Palestine" are just that... Arabs! And these Arabs of "Palestine" have about as much historical roots to the ancient Philistines as Yasser Arafat has to the Eskimos!
The ancient, indigenous inhabitants of Palestine are long perished from the earth. Canaanites, Phoencians, and then Philistines, all were dominated by the Israelites before 1060 B.C.E. Most of these cultural identities dissolved completely by the neo-Babylonian age, or, the 6th century B.C.E. Arabs weren’t even in Palestine until the mid-7th century C.E., over a thousand years later, after Palestine’s 1,300-year Jewish history. Arabs later living in Palestine never developed themselves or the land, but remained nomadic and quasi-primitive.
Even the word "Palestine" has no meaning in Arabic - every word in Arabic has some meaning deriving from the Koran, but the word "Palestine" does not. Even the term "Palestinian people" is rather ironic since the letter "P" is non-existent in the Arab language. If anything, the name "Palestine" was associated with Jews. In the years leading up to the rebirth of Israel in 1948, those who spoke of "Palestinians" were nearly always referring to the region's Jewish residents. For example, the "Palestine Post" [forerunner of today's Jerusalem Post] newspaper and the Palestine Symphony Orchestra were all-Jewish. The "Palestine Brigade Regiment" was composed exclusively of Jewish volunteers in the British World War II Army. In fact, Arab leaders rejected the notion of a unique "Palestinian Arab" identity, insisting that Palestine was merely a part of "Greater Syria."

http://www.masada2000.org/​

 

[CDNBear]

What you thought I was finished...

THE RETURN TO ZION
A return through both time and space to their ancestral homeland

The Land of Israel was never devoid of Jews, although at times she numbered only in the tens of thousands. This was because the land was virtually uninhabitable when the Jews once again began their God-given right AND duty to return en masse to the land of their forefathers (the Zionist Movement) in the 1880s. The silly rhetoric about a massive Arab presence being overrun by "invading Jews" is quickly dispelled by Mark Twain, who visited the area in 1867. From his book, "The Innocents Abroad"... "A desolate country whose soil is rich enough, but is given over wholly to weeds... a silent mournful expanse.... a desolation.... we never saw a human being on the whole route.... hardly a tree or shrub anywhere. Even the olive tree and the cactus, those fast friends of a worthless soil, had almost deserted the country."
The Jews did not displace anyone, because very few of the people who were there actually owned the land. Most were absentee owners residing elsewhere. Another fact hardly mentioned by the "new historians" is that the arriving Jews never threw anyone off any land. All land was purchased legally from the original owners... whether they be from "Palestine" itself or elsewhere. Furthermore, top dollar was paid for this land which, in many cases, was uninhabited and hardly more than swamp land and rocky terrain. Only about 120,000 Arabs resided in an area that now comprises the State of Israel, Jordan and the so-called "West Bank" [Judea and Samaria] in between. By 1890, the number of Jews who had settled in Palestine reached 50,000 and, by 1907, numbered 100,000. In Jerusalem alone the Jews numbered more than 25,000, out of a total population in the city of only 40,000 Jews, Christians and Arabs. The Arabs did, however, constitute a majority over the sparsely populated countryside abutting Jerusalem.​

1880's
For more remarkable early photos of the Holy Land click Here​

From 1888 until 1915 there were about six locust plagues that made the land nearly uninhabitable. In the 1915 locust plague alone some 40,000 people died and large numbers of Jews and Arabs left the land. Those that returned did not do so until about 1922 when the Zionist money to reclaim the land started coming in and a pipe line was laid. Then both Arabs and Jews started to come in in large numbers.
Palestine's early Jewish Zionists were idealistic pioneers who arrived in pre-state Israel with every intention of living in peace alongside their Arab neighbors and upgrading the quality of life for all of the land's inhabitants. These pre-Israel Zionists (and later, Israelis) had tried to develop peacefully for the dual benefit of Jews and Arabs in the land. But the Arab leadership always, starting in the earliest days, took the low road of insisting that the only solution was for the Jews to get out, even if that meant continued poverty and stagnation. When Arab demands were not met, they always resorted to violence.
The vast majority of Arabs came to the area after these early Zionist pioneers began draining the malaria-infested swamps (above photo) and plowing the land! In doing so, these Jews created the economic opportunities and medical availabilities which attracted Arabs from both surrounding territories and far-away lands! In fact, over 90% of the Arabs migrated there within the last one hundred years. Most of the Arabs in "Palestine" were interlopers and squatters originating from Syria, Jordan, Egypt, Iraq and other lands who simply took possession of pieces of land. So much for their unfounded claims that they have been there since "time immemorial!" These Arabs came from disorganized collections of tribes with a tradition of constantly terrorizing each other and trying to seize land from their neighbors. Many of them were social outcasts and criminals who could not find jobs in their own countries so they searched for their luck elsewhere. Unfortunately, those Arab immigrants imported into the Holy Land their age-old culture of terrorizing neighbors in order to seize land. In fact, today's Arab "Palestinians", let by Arafat and his PLO (sanitized to the PA, or Palestinian Authority...which is nothing more than A Network of Murderers Masquerading As Government!) are still nothing more than street thugs, bullies and 'Little Saddams' found elsewhere throughout most of the most Arab world.
Yet while the returning Jews were highly motivated to restore the land, the Arabs seethed with envy and hatred for they lacked both the leadership to inspire and motivate them for they were, in fact, historical strangers to this land! Unlike the Jews, those Arabs who immigrated there had no ancient attachments to or historical memories of this homeland ... this ancient Land of the JEWS!
The real problem facing those Arabs today is not the lack of a homeland. The historical root-cause of their problem and frustration is the fact that the countries they came from have not agreed to accept them back in. This is why so many of them live, up until today, in refugee camps, in neighboring Arab countries, lacking fundamental civil rights. In their frustration they feel that the only hope and choice they have is to try and steal someone else's country!

http://www.masada2000.org/​

 

[CDNBear]

OK, I'm almost done...

In Conclusion:

There was no "Arab Palestinian" history before the Arabs manufactured one shortly after 1948, and then especially after the June 1967 Arab-Israeli War! In an interview with the Dutch newspaper "Trau" (March 31, 1977), PLO executive committee member Zahir Muhsein said, "The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct 'Palestinian people' to oppose Zionism. It is also been a "conceptual" war for ownership of the term "Palestinian" which has been transferred over to the Arabs whereas, before 1967, "Palestine" has always been synonymous with Eretz Israel and the Land of Israel.
Archeological sites to this very day continue to yield artifacts with Hebrew writing, not some fictitious "Palestinian" or Arabic text! The so-called "Palestinian" Arabs were simply then, as they are now, Arabs no different culturally, historically or ethnically from other Arabs living in any of the 24 Arab countries from which they emigrated. The suggestion that the "Palestinians" are some sub-group of Arabs with their own unique identity is pure fiction! Great propaganda... but still pure fiction! And had not the Arabs continued to brainwash generation upon generation into believing this HISTORICAL HOGWASH about some ancient "Arab Palestinian" ties to the Holy Land, most could have gotten themselves a real life by now with much less bloodshed and suffering for everyone concerned!
Click Here for more on the myth of a "Palestinian People."
Click Here for Audio! ​

Remember: When we use their language (i.e. "West Bank" instead of Judea-Samaria, "occupied territory" instead of liberated Jewish lands, "settlements" instead of Jewish communities, "Palestinian" instead of Arab, "Haram esh Sharif" instead of the Temple Mount, etc.), we are allowing the enemies of Israel to define the issues, create or distort history and control the debate.​

http://www.masada2000.org/

 

[CDNBear]

Now we're gettin' somewhere...

GREED, PRIDE, ENVY!

The Arabs and/or Muslims of today control 22 nations... 99½ percent of the ENTIRE Middle East land mass while Israel occupies only a 1/2

of 1 percent speck on this same map. But that's still too much land for the Arabs to spare. They want it all. How often have we heard their familiar cry, "We will fight to our last drop of blood for for every last grain of sand!" And that is ultimately what all the fighting is about today. And no matter how many land concessions the Israelis might make for "peace," it will never be enough! Any peace treaty between Israel and the Arab world are ultimately meaningless. The most recent 1993 "Oslo Peace Accord" has brought nothing but homicidal bombers into Israel. Even the Israeli-Egyptian and Israeli-Jordanian peace treaties are holding on by a single thread and, if you were to read their government-controlled newspapers, you'd think they were still at war with Israel!

http://www.masada2000.org/​

 

[CDNBear]

This is not the end...

PEACE IS IMPOSSIBLE!There's No More "Middle" in the Middle East ​

From the moment the Jewish People re-established sovereignty in their ancient homeland, they sought genuine peace with all of their neighbors. Unfortunately, their neighbors did not wish to share a peaceful existence with them. They, like Bin Ladin today, felt that they had a religious obligation to destroy the non-Arab/Muslim Jewish State (and, for that matter, ALL non-Arab/Moslem governments in the world). The Arab campaign against Israel is rooted not in any negotiable grievances but in a basic opposition to the very existence of Jewish sovereignty in what they perceive as THEIR Middle East! The ultimate intent of the Arabs is to separate out a Jewish history from "Palestine"... and then to separate Israel from the face of the Earth.
When the Palestine Liberation Organization's (PLO) was formed in 1964, its primary goal was to destroy Israel. After the 1967 Arab-Israeli war, their goal became two-tracked: Either (1) destroy Israel outright (the same pre-1967 goal) or (2) the creation of an Arab-Palestinian state to be used as a launching pad from which to destroy Israel. Different strategies - same ultimate goal... a state not along side Israel, but IN PLACE OF Israel. It's really that simple!​

For More Regarding "Palestine" and "Palestinian People"

"Palestinian" People Do Not Exist
The History and Meaning of "Palestine" & "Palestinians
The History & Meaning of "Palestine" & "Palestinian"
Then take this Quiz
​

 

[CDNBear]

Neither is this...

The Question of Jerusalem
And the Temple Mount
Click Here for Maps and Photos of
East and West Jerusalem and the Old City ​

For over 3,300 years of history, Jerusalem has been a capital city for only the Jewish People. Jews have always lived in Jerusalem, except when they were massacred or driven out. There has, however, been a nearly unbroken Jewish presence in Jerusalem for the past 1,600 years. And since the early 1800's, the population of Jerusalem has been predominantly Jewish. Even when the Jordanians captured and occupied Jerusalem from 1948-67, they (the Jordanians) never sought to change it to their capital (replacing Amman) nor make it the capital of all Arab-"Palestinian" people. Even during the 19 years Jordan "occupied" most of Jerusalem, Arab leaders from other Arab countries hardly ever bothered to visit this city! Only to the Jews has Jerusalem ever held special meaning! The reality is that Jerusalem was never an Arab capital and that it never was, until the Jews revitalized it, a dusty provincial city that hardly played and economic, social or political role.
Another myth deals with the issue of Jerusalem and its Temple Mount. The myth is that Jerusalem is really an Arab city and that it is a central focus of Islam. The truth is that the Arabs expressed very limited interest in the Temple Mount before 1967 after the Six-Day War. Besides, Mecca and Medina (both in Saudi Arabia) are Islam's holiest cities!
Islam's Holy(?) Koran mentions Mecca 2 or 3 (implied, but not actually written) times. It mentions Medina 5 times. It never mentions Jerusalem and with good reason. There is no historical evidence to suggest Mohammad ever visited Jerusalem! And if he did visit Jerusalem, it could not have been until 6 years after his death. Therefore, the notion that Mohammed ascended to Heaven from a rock in Jerusalem (today's Dome of the Rock) is even more ridiculous!
One more thing about Jerusalem in general and its Temple Mount in particular. Jerusalem appears in the Jewish Bible 669 times and Zion (which usually means Jerusalem, sometimes the Land of Israel) 154 times, or 823 times in all. The Christian Bible mentions Jerusalem 154 times and Zion 7 times. All told, in the Old Testament (the Hebrew Bible) and the New Testament, the terms "Judah" or "Judea" appear 877 times, and "Samaria" is used on 123 occasions.
Hold on to your hats, everybody. It gets even better. Upon closer look at their Holy Koran, we have uncovered something quite amazing. These Muslims may actually be more Jewish than Muslim! Get this... the Koran mentions "Israel" [or "Israelites"] 47 times, "Jew" or "Jewish" 26 times! Even "Christian" or "Christians" gets 15 mentions!
OK, so maybe Mohammed just forget to mention "Jerusalem". Maybe he also forgot to mention the Haram-esh-Sharif, their name for Judaism's Temple Mount. Perhaps it was an honest oversight. That desert heat can do strange things to one's brain. But surely "Palestine" is mentioned all through the Koran. After all, the poo' poo' ancient "Palestinians" go way back, right? WRONG. "Palestine" and "Palestinian" are nowhere to be found. Perhaps that's because these so-called Arab "Palestinians" have ancient historical roots going ALL THE WAY back to June 1967! So much for the Arab, Muslim or "Palestinian" ancient religious or physical connections to a single ounce of turf in the so-called "occupied" territories!
From 1948 to 1967, when East Jerusalem and the Temple Mount were "occupied" by Jordanian Forces following the 1948-9 Arab-Israeli War, Jerusalem itself was ignored by the Arab world. No Arab leader ever paid a visit, not even to pray at the al-Aqsa Mosque or the Dome of the Rock (both located on the JEWISH Temple Mount). Also noteworthy during this 19 year period of Jordanian occupation' no Jews were allowed there... not that there was much for them to see since the Arabs destroyed 58 of Jerusalem's Jewish synagogues! Even the Arabs of "Palestine" placed so low a priority on Jerusalem that the PLO's founding charter, the 1964 Palestinian National Covenant, made no reference whatsoever to it. Only when the Jews recaptured it after the 1967 "Six Day War" (initiated by the Arabs) did the Arab world SUDDENLY grow very passionate about Jerusalem!
Can any Muslim in the world produce any credible evidence for their connection to this holy site, other than Mohammed's dream? Believe it or not, the one and only source for the Muslim's claim to Jerusalem and the site of the Holy Temple, is a mention in the Koran of a dream that Mohammed had about an unknown "place far away". Perhaps this "place far away" is the site of the White House in Washington DC or a Nevada "chicken ranch?"
In truth, the Dome of the Rock and the Al-Aqsa mosques are just but two of hundreds of thousands of Muslim mosques around the world. Except for these two minor mosques, Jerusalem itself has no major Islamic significance. In fact, far more Christian shrines are in Jerusalem than Muslim ones!
When a Jew prays from anywhere in the world, he faces the Temple Mount in Jerusalem. When a Moslem prays, even while IN Jerusalem, he faces Mecca, Saudi Arabia (1,300 miles away due east!). So in many cases, even when a Moslem is in Jerusalem, his "hind quarters" are facing these two Jerusalem mosques! What does THIS tell you! And when Islamic suicide bombers try to take apart Jerusalem piece by piece, what does THAT tell you! ​

Click Here for More on the Temple Mount
Click Here for an Aerial Fly-Over [MySpace.com]​

 

[CDNBear]

But this is...

WHAT IT ALL BOILS DOWN TO:
In order to have a "New" Middle East,
There needs to be new Arabs! ​

"There are some violent conflicts in the world that simply do not lend themselves to resolution by either signatures or handshakes. The Arab-Israeli conflict is one of them. That is because there are no tangible, realistic exchanges that can be made between the two sides that would guarantee lasting peace. No exchange of territory, no compensation to refugees, no guarantee of statehood will quell the insistent [Arab-] "Palestinian" demand for Israel's extinction."
Avi Davis WorldNetDaily Article

"You can’t teach a monkey to speak and you can’t teach an Arab to be democratic. You’re dealing with a culture of thieves and robbers. Muhammad, their prophet, was a robber and a killer and a liar. The Arab destroys everything he touches!"
Moshe Feiglin

"Today, most of the Arab/Islamic world focuses its genocidal hatred on the Jewish State exactly as Europe once focused this same hatred on the individual Jew. There is now no greater Jewish responsibility than to prevent a second Holocaust... and it is nothing short of a Holocaust that the Arab/Islamic world now wishes and plans for Israel."Louis Rene Beres 9/9/04 Lecture to the Dawn R. Schuman Institute

http://www.masada2000.org/​

 

[Zzarchov]

Ug, thats not much better than the the first post.


In the end, Israel did alot of things which were wrong in its founding. And I would support those who came over at or prior to 1948 as adults being tried and punished. I would support the return of people born in Palestine and were booted out.

I would not support the children, grand-children and great grand children of those Israelis who commited a crime, being punished for something they didn't do. Israel is the land they were born on, and it doesn't matter where their parents came from. They had no control over the actions of their parents and deserve no blame for their actions.

I would not support the immigration of people not born in Israel to Israel under the so called "Right of return". You cannot return to where you have never been.

Maybe the exhile made you impoverished. Tough, lots of people are born into poverty. Whether its because your parents were drug users or they were exhiled is irrelevant.

You deserve no rights based upon things before your birth and you deserve no punishment for things from before you were born.

 

[earth_as_one]

Z, our opinions aren't that far apart. I also do not support holding descendants responsible for the crimes of their ancestors either. Anyone who has tried to peacefully coexist with their neighbors should be left alone. Jewish Israelis who want to live peacefully with their neighbors should not be harmed.

CDNBear is also correct in that most North Americans are beneficiaries of injustices perpetratrated by immigrants on the indigenious peoples. I count myself among the beneficiaries. But I am a fourth generation Canadian. I personally have done no harm to the descendant of people who lived in North America before its was discovered by Europeans. In fact I worked for NavCanada for 18 years anbd during that time, I served many northern communities. These communities benefit from air travel directly resulting from my personal efforts. As far as canada's First Nations are concerned, I feel I no guilt. In fact I am still pissed off over senseless vandalism I have had to repair. Local idiots who had no idea of my purpose in their towns often treated me poorly. I don't care about ignorance but what really bothered me was vandalization of the Air Navigation systems I maintained. Once, a medevac flight couldn't land because of bad weather and a vandalized navigation beacon antenna. That bothered me.

The entire story about the Temple Mount and related religious prophecies is a crock of $hit. No religion or belief system should overrule another or be used to treat people differently. What matters is justice and freedom, not ancient fairytales.

A sytem of rights based on race/religion will always lead to oppression and injustice. Its human nature to resist oppression and injustice and struggle for freedom and justice. Nothing anyone posts here can change this simple truth.

Eventually Zionsim will join other false 19th century ideas like Communism and Eugenics. There is no master race. Only people trying to survive...

 

[CDNBear]

Z, our opinions aren't that far apart. I also do not support holding descendants responsible for the crimes of their ancestors either. Anyone who has tried to peacefully coexist with their neighbors should be left alone. Jewish Israelis who want to live peacefully with their neighbors should not be harmed.

CDNBear is also correct in that most North Americans are beneficiaries of injustices perpetratrated by immigrants on the indigenious peoples. I count myself among the beneficiaries. But I am a fourth generation Canadian. I personally have done no harm to the descendant of people who lived in North America before its was discovered by Europeans. In fact I worked for NavCanada for 18 years anbd during that time, I served many northern communities. These communities benefit from air travel directly resulting from my personal efforts. As far as canada's First Nations are concerned, I feel I no guilt. In fact I am still pissed off over senseless vandalism I have had to repair. Local idiots who had no idea of my purpose in their towns often treated me poorly. I don't care about ignorance but what really bothered me was vandalization of the Air Navigation systems I maintained. Once, a medevac flight couldn't land because of bad weather and a vandalized navigation beacon antenna. That bothered me.

The entire story about the Temple Mount and related religious prophecies is a crock of $hit. No religion or belief system should overrule another or be used to treat people differently. What matters is justice and freedom, not ancient fairytales.

A sytem of rights based on race/religion will always lead to oppression and injustice. Its human nature to resist oppression and injustice and struggle for freedom and justice. Nothing anyone posts here can change this simple truth.

Eventually Zionsim will join other false 19th century ideas like Communism and Eugenics. There is no master race. Only people trying to survive...

Of course it's a crock, it is the exact opposite of your position. An extreme turn in the opposite direction.

But if you analys it and give it some thought, you see, that somewhere in between your paste continuim and the material I pasted, is the truth. Yours is no less shyte then mine. Get over it.

Your position that Zionism is the cause of all the woes, is the most ridiculous arguement. I have conceded, that the IDF could use better judgement in its targetting practices. But you fail to recognize the faults in the Palestinian or Lebonese claims and actions. How hypocritical. I will agree that Zionism is crap, but I think you blindly use the word, to describe something you can not phathom, survival at all costs. You pin that label on the Jews of Israel easily, but ignore the history and rise of the Islamic nazi party and its ties to Hitler. A fact I have displayed more then once. The family tree, branches right out and in to the heart of palestine and Lebonon. This genocidal hate was present before 48, it was born in 33, when Amin Al Husseini, brought what was given to him, back to the ME and spread it like a virus. Thus any support for the Hezbollah or Hamas is defacto support for the desendence of the nazi regime.

I will not relent in my quest to rid my community of its sponsorship of the plight of terrorists. Nor my consistant posting of the othersides view and history here. It is a matter of balance. You post your lopsided view, I counter with an opposing view.

Zzarchov...

If the injustice is as monumental as the history of the Jews, then who shall pay for the sins of our Fathers. Do I not pay for the sins of my Fathers, when I have to confront the stereotypes such as those posted by mod and member alike here at CC? Do I not have to prove I am not my Fathers son, when I put forth a plan that requests governemnt funding, to establish a program for the betterment of my people?

Who is to decide, who pays the debts left to us by our Fathers and who does not?

Will the great great grand children of todays IDF Soldiers, be paying reperations to the Palistinians and Lebonese, because of the sins of their Fathers?

 

[Logic 7]

Zionism:



The problem with Zionsim is that it doesn't take into account the people who lived in and around Palestine. These people lived here for thousands of years. Not only do these people precede the Zionsist state of Israel, some share the same ancestors as Jews. Likely some of these people descend directly from people which lived in Palesatine before Judaism existed. These people were never consulted, yet they paid the full price for the creation of a Zionist state which treats them differently because they are not Jewish.
[/COLOR]

Zionist definition.

Zionist is a new version of the word "vermin", they have no sympatie, they are a reckless idiots who are ready to give the rest of the world a hell time, for their own selfish interest.

 

[CDNBear]

Zionist definition.

Zionist is a new version of the word "vermin", they have no sympatie, they are a reckless idiots who are ready to give the rest of the world a hell time, for their own selfish interest.

Jeeze, didn't the nazi's call the Jews "vermin"?

Careful Logic, you swastika's showing.

Hey have you seen the thread I started on the real stats of how the Natives voted "Non" in the last referendum?

I blew your position of, they are the separatists biggest supporters out of the water.

 

[Logic 7]

But this is...

lol, when you scroll down the bottom of the page, and you have that kind of retarded statement, you don't have to dig very far, to prove what you just posted is a fairy tail



"The land of Israel belongs to God, and He has decided to give it to the Jewish nation,
in accordance with the covenant sealed on Mount Sinai, a covenant that no other nation
was willing to undertake. After a long exile, we've returned home. We bear no malice toward anyone
and seek no harm to anyone. But we will not surrender any portion of our land to foreign powers,
and if foreigners rise up against us to destroy us, we will fight against them and,
with God's help, we will destroy them." Martin Wasserman



So please get your crap and keep it for you only.

 

[CDNBear]

lol, when you scroll down the bottom of the page, and you have that kind of retarded statement, you don't have to dig very far, to prove what you just posted is a fairy tail



"The land of Israel belongs to God, and He has decided to give it to the Jewish nation,
in accordance with the covenant sealed on Mount Sinai, a covenant that no other nation
was willing to undertake. After a long exile, we've returned home. We bear no malice toward anyone
and seek no harm to anyone. But we will not surrender any portion of our land to foreign powers,
and if foreigners rise up against us to destroy us, we will fight against them and,
with God's help, we will destroy them." Martin Wasserman



So please get your crap and keep it for you only.

We ALL beg of you to do the same. At least the crap I dig up, has some form of formulative though, you have not posted one shread of counter evidence, just name calling and your typical rhetoric.

Grow up and post some proof. You can't, you have not the ablity to find anything, even surrounded by such deep thoughts, as the library you hide in would provide. Try reading a book or expanding your mind, with something other then the cocktail perscribed by a Doctor, who's skills are somwhat lacking, evident im you inablity to post anything other then tripe.