Australia's Differences with Canada

Curiosity

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http://www.westernstandard.ca/website/index.cfm?page=article&article_id=1945
September 11, 2006

Mar Steyn (registration required - whole article posted)
Western Standard
Of the two senior dominions, Australia's a fraction of our size with double the global influence. Where did Canada go wrong?

Obviously foreign countries are the easiest to write about: "Through the haze, I could see camel caravans crossing the Niger river," etc. That's Joseph C. Wilson IV's famous New York Times editorial about whether or not Saddam was trying to acquire uranium from Niger--a bad travelogue that nevertheless catapulted him to the world's longest 15 minutes of fame.

But countries that are apparently just like your own are much harder to get into the real rhythm of. On the face of it, Australia is much like Canada: the streets have the same names (Wellington, Grosvenor, and so on), and there's usually a statue of Queen Victoria and/or a bunch of buildings bearing her moniker. Canada and Australia are, as we used to say, the two senior dominions--though their respective confederations (1867, 1901) are separated by a third of a century and very different political climates within the Empire. Still, I didn't really start thinking about the big differences between the two until my fourth or fifth day down under, when, at a conference in Queensland, the governor general strolled over to say hello.

I hasten to add that's not the big difference. True, I find it hard to imagine the governor general of Canada seeking me out with such enthusiasm. But I'm reluctant to measure a nation solely by its deference to one's own eminence, mindful that that's pretty much why Arthur Miller, Harold Pinter et al. loved the Soviet Union. Rather, what struck me was the startling character of the viceregal personage. He was (a) white; (b) male; and (c) a retired major-general.

What happened? A freak computer virus? To the best of my knowledge, there's no de jure constitutional prohibition against a white male with a military background serving as Canada's governor general, but, if it hasn't been formally read into the Charter of Rights by Madame L'Heureux-Dubé, it might just as well have been. If you've got a name like Gord MacKinnon, don't hold your breath waiting for the nod to pack for Rideau Hall. And Major-General Michael Jeffery isn't just some blue-helmeted peacekeepy type. He led the Australian SAS--i.e., special forces, the toughest hombres on the squad. He won the Military Cross in Vietnam and still believes that that war was the right thing to do. He headed Australia's national counter-terrorism strategy team.

In other words, if you wanted to devise the precise opposite of Michaëlle Jean, this is what he'd look like. He has never introduced pro-Castro documentaries on public television. He is not married to a cocktail revolutionary. To the best of my knowledge, he did not explain his appointment by saying that the prime minister "gave it to me because I'm hot." The night before His Excellency and I shared our little chat, I'd seen him up on stage presenting a couple of awards, a tall man of martial bearing, checked shirt and blazer, a bluff confident off-the-cuff speaker with a bonhomous jest about the Royal Australian Air Force bombers for a fellow veteran and some splendid remarks about the virtues of clarity in writing for a journalistic recipient. It would have been an unremarkable viceregal performance in Canada, say, 40 years ago, when our own major-general GG, Georges Vanier, was in residence, or 60 years ago, when Viscount Alexander was at Rideau Hall. But to the subjects of Trudeaupian Canada it would have seemed as alien in tone as if the Marquess of Dufferin had returned from the grave.

To those who regard Canada's highest office as a self-parodying affirmative action program, bumping implausibly from the country's first female Asian Canadian immigrant anglophone host of left-wing CBC shows to the country's first female black Canadian immigrant francophone host of even more left-wing CBC shows, critics might riposte that our gal is cooler than some squaresville Legion type. Which may be true, if you define cool as a laboured accumulation of desperate multiculti brownie points. But it's also revealing, I'd say, about how our respective nations see themselves.

A couple of days later, an unnamed very senior mega-important super-duper government official (as The New York Times says when it's leaking details of U.S. national security programs) told me that, after untold meetings during the Chrétien-Martin years, he'd concluded that Canada, like New Zealand, saw itself not as a country but as an NGO. That's not just a very funny but also a very shrewd characterization, perfectly encapsulating the Trudeaupian state's abasement before transnational pieties--to the point where we regard it as entirely natural that Canadian foreign policy has nothing to do with national interest (assuming we still have one) or even basic morality. The last time I can recall hearing about Lloyd Axworthy was just before the fall of the Taliban, when he turned up in Pakistan to protest that American military action risked jeopardizing relief supplies.

He seemed to be enjoying being part of an actual NGO operation rather than a pseudo one. Once again, the difference between Mme Jean and Major-General Jeffery seems instructive: Axworthy's Canada had attitudes rather than policies, and the fierceness of its attitude was as a general rule inversely proportional to the likelihood of it ever acting upon it--Kyoto being only the most shameless example. Australia, on the other hand, is an old-fashioned nation state: it has responsibilities rather than attitudes. A few days into my trip to the Antipodes, I'd heard so often the line that Canada to America is like New Zealand to Australia, that I began proposing an alternative: Canada to America is like Indonesia to Australia--crazy joint to the north where half the people are jumping up and down shouting, "Death to the Great Satan!" But, after mulling it over, I decided this was unfair to the Indonesians. The world's largest Muslim nation is a fragile democracy, to be sure, but it seems, for the moment, to be doing quite a good job holding down the Islamists.

It was in Canberra that I first heard the phrase "Australia's sphere of influence." Obviously, it's a little difficult for us to have a "sphere of influence," as Canada itself is in America's sphere of influence. But, on the other hand, these days France and Germany and so on don't have much of a sphere of influence either. The Aussies have no choice. They live in a tough neighbourhood. I don't just mean Indonesia and China, but East Timor, Australia's former colony of Papua New Guinea, and a string of islands hastily decolonized by Britain in the eighties--the Solomons, Vanuatu, Tuvalu, Nauru, and the rest of the so-called "arc of instability." China and Taiwan have been competing to buy up local pols and both parties have plenty of walking-around money, so Canberra has responded with a forceful if not quite publicly stated doctrine of conditional sovereignty. In failed and failing states, John Howard's government installs, according to need, troops and/or cops and/or Aussie judges, police commissioners and other bureaucrats, the principal aim being to provide an environment inimical to corruption. By comparison with Washington, they're honest about and comfortable with this qualified neo-imperialism, and the Americans could learn a lot both from the policy and from the Aussies' ease with it.ÊBut in Canadian terms you're struck yet again by the difference embodied in our respective viceregal potentates, by the difference between attitude and action. Canada has a hard and honourable mission in Afghanistan, but it's acting in support of larger powers, whether the U.S. or NATO. We're all but incapable of projecting force on our own. Australia plays a similar role in Afghanistan and Iraq, but in its backyard, in East Timor and the Solomons, it shoulders the burden itself and just gets on with it.

Is this just the reality of geography? That a nation without America next door can't be so smugly self-indulgent of every multiculti fatuity? Up to a point.

But it wasn't always like that. Until 60 years ago, we were an important second-rank power with a profile in the world that extended beyond the shadow of the colossus. Today, we have a population 50 per cent bigger than Australia's (at the moment, that is: our fertility rates are lower than theirs, and our society is aging faster) but we have a global influence a good 50 per cent less. Stephen Harper has managed to restore our reputation in small and mainly symbolic ways, but, from the viceregal office down, the props of the Trudeaupian state remain in place. There was another phrase I heard a lot around the Oz foreign affairs corridors: a "busted arse" country, which is certainly a livelier term than "failed state." Posterior-wise, ours is sagging rather than busted, but, if we want to avoid joining that category, we could do a lot worse than learn from the admirable Aussies.
 

tamarin

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Australia like Canada is a third rate western wannabe. Australia has no global influence. Neither does Canada. The latter likes to spend big money internationally that it doesn't have and suck up but it ain't on the radar. And that can be a good thing.
Canada has a long way to go. As with the recent Int Aids Conference here and the deluge of reps now claiming refugee status, it's obvious our nation's a mark. We're immature. We don't know when people are using us. We're a kid.
So is Australia.
 

#juan

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Yet another BS put down of Canada by Mark Steyn

The article is spam.

Canada is doing just fine. her economy is as strong as, if not better than the rest of the countries in the G - 8 Canada's position on the globe is obviously different from Australia. Canada is still paying for not joining the almighty cock-up in Iraq and Steyn, in his sleazy way, will keep finding ways to attack Canada for it. Australia did sent soldiers to Iraq. They just took them out of Afghanistan. Canada is still in Afghanistan, contributing more than her share.
 

elevennevele

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Wednesday'sChild said:
http://www.westernstandard.ca/website/index.cfm?page=article&article_id=1945
September 11, 2006

Mar Steyn (registration required - whole article posted)
Western Standard
Of the two senior dominions, Australia's a fraction of our size with double the global influence. Where did Canada go wrong?


I know the problem with your post. One is how you try to define global importance, and the other problem is you’ve referenced The Western Standard.

I could never understand how right wing rags seem very good at looking down on aspects of our country while on the flip side really try to play up the patriotic card. It’s a good way of fooling with people’s heads.
 

athabaska

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My sister lives in Canberra. She would prefer to live in Canada and will return when the last of her children have fledged the nest. She does, however, see Canada as a country with an inferiority complex compared to Australia. Australians are comfortable with their identities but Canadians have this constant need for approval a la 'did you know that actor 'x' is a Canadian? Did you know that singer 'x' is actually a Canadian?'..ad nauseum. Canadian nationalism and identity is 'forced' compared to that of Australia.
 

tamarin

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I'm a proud member of Old Canada. We knew who we were and still do. I've always viewed Australia as slightly weird with its fixation on convict family trees and memorabilia. Yes, a lot of Canucks under 40 are embarrassing. They're glued to celebrity tv and the latest issue of rags like US and People. But who takes anyone under 40 seriously anyway?
 

#juan

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Re: RE: Australia's Differences with Canada

athabaska said:
My sister lives in Canberra. She would prefer to live in Canada and will return when the last of her children have fledged the nest. She does, however, see Canada as a country with an inferiority complex compared to Australia. Australians are comfortable with their identities but Canadians have this constant need for approval a la 'did you know that actor 'x' is a Canadian? Did you know that singer 'x' is actually a Canadian?'..ad nauseum. Canadian nationalism and identity is 'forced' compared to that of Australia.

Some Canadians are proud of actors working in the U.S.. I don't care one way or another. If they are decent actors, fine, if not, well, everybody wants to make a living.

I don't have an identity problem. I would far rather raise my kids in Canada than Australia. All their uncles and aunts are in North America. I have nothing against Australia.
 

iARTthere4iam

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Jul 23, 2006
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Canada may well be more like Australia if we were more on our own (not next to the massively influential US) but there is no way to change that.
What we can do is to figure out what we want, and decide what, and how to do it and just damn-well get down to it.

Stop using the US as an excuse for everything. Stop the blame. Take responsibility for ourselves. If we fancy ourselves sovereign we also need to accept the responsibility.
 

Daz_Hockey

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RE: Australia's Differenc

oh what miserable offspring you have, mother empire, mother Britain, what's that old joke that Americans like to tell?

"you know what, with the biggest empire the world has ever seen, you brits are shocking, with all that, you still end up on that miserable little island" - well I think I've found the answer to that little riddle!!!!.


- Answer....nah they took their misery's and their inferiority complexes with em!!!
 

Blackleaf

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Re: RE: Australia's Differences with Canada

tamarin said:
Australia like Canada is a third rate western wannabe. .
So is Australia.

Rubbish. Australia, along with Britain, is the closest ally to the United States. Australia last year signed a treaty with the US - that was also signed by Britain many years ago - that enables Australia to work closely with the US on many secret projects and, like Britain, would send troops to certain regions to help the US out if necessary. Canada hasn't signed this treaty.

Australia is, in effect, the third-most powerful country in the world after the US and Britain because, like Britain, it has allied itself more closely to the US than any other nation has.

Also, the Aussies are a tough people. And, even though Australia is slightly smaller than Canada, it is more known in Britain than Canada is. Us British know far more about Australia than we do about Canada. We hear more Australian music and see more Australian TV shows on our TV everyday, such as "Home and Away" and "Neighbours". Australia just seems to be more influential in the world than Canada.

Not to mention that the Aussies' favourite sports are proper men's sports - those Aussie men aren't girlies - and they are pretty good at rugby and cricket, both sports in which they have won the World Cup many times. Again, Canadians, because they play ice hockey and basketball (two sports less popular and less well-known in the world) don't have the opportunity to be as hugely successful in world sport as the Aussies are.
 

Just the Facts

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Re: RE: Australia's Differences with Canada

Blackleaf said:
Also, the Aussies are a tough people.

We may be nauseatingly polite, but don't mistake that for a lack of toughness. I know that wasn't your intent, but I just thought I would clarify, anyway. 8)
 

Blackleaf

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I think not said:
Basketball is less popular than cricket? :lol:

Yeah. Cricket is the national sport of India - population of 1 billion - and it's the national sport of of Pakistan. It's the number 2 sport in Britain, behind soccer and ahead of rugby, and it's very popular in Australia, New Zealand and South Africa.
 

Toro

Senate Member
RE: Australia's Differenc

You've been eating too much haggis spiked with Scotch Blackleaf. Take your kilt off your head.

Nobody cares about cricket. Who plays cricket? Australia, England, South Africa, the West Indies, India, Pakistan. That's about it. It takes 5 days to play. Who has time to watch that.

Real man's sport? :lol Its a game for the upper class twits who didn't have to work for a living. Who the hell else can afford 5 days off to play a game in which they break for tea. Yeah, "real man's sport" that.

Basketball is much more popular than cricket. Perhaps China doesn't exist in Blackleaf's atlas. Or Brazil. Or Europe. Or Russia.
 

Zzarchov

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Sorry Blackleaf..by your own logic (ie, being an american lapdog makes you powerful..in the same way the coffee clerk is the second most powerful person in starbucks next to the CEO)

Ice Hockey and Basketball are more manly sports because they are sports America plays.

No body in America would give two shakes about Cricket and Soccer, which by North Americans (Ie, the all powerful America) are sports for toddlers (soccer) and the Elderly (cricket) when they can't play REAL sports.

And while Britain may know more about Australia..again by your own logic,

the country that matters (America) knows more about Canada (though still not alot) than Britain and Australia combined.



So...following your own convulted logic through...Canada is more powerful than Britain and Australia combined ;P
 

Curiosity

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Blackleaf....your words earlier...

Australia is, in effect, the third-most powerful country in the world after the US and Britain because, like Britain, it has allied itself more closely to the US than any other nation has.

I agree - Britain and Australia are wonderful friends to the U.S. who lacks friends the world over - and these two countries have put their reputations on the line for standing beside the U.S.

This will never be forgotten I assure you.
 

I think not

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Blackleaf said:
I think not said:
Basketball is less popular than cricket? :lol:

Yeah. Cricket is the national sport of India - population of 1 billion - and it's the national sport of of Pakistan. It's the number 2 sport in Britain, behind soccer and ahead of rugby, and it's very popular in Australia, New Zealand and South Africa.

They have you locked up in the London Tower and have forgotten about you haven't they? Poor chap.
 

Daz_Hockey

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RE: Australia's Differenc

I would like to point out that, being a person who's travelled a fair bit in india, I think I can honestly say Blackleaf is right, India is CRAZY, and I mean stark raving bonkers about Cricket, Mumbai has a HUGE numerous cricket park area with a about 15 ovals in it alone, they play it everywhere......I never once saw a game of basketball being played.

Also, it's HUGE in most asian countries, India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka...it's huge in Africa too, Zimbabwe, South Africa etc, Australia, NZ.....nope, he's right CRICKET is MUCH bigger around the world than Basketball.
 

Blackleaf

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Here's an article about a Frenchwomen's reaction to Australia sending troops to Iraq alongside Britain and America -



A VISITOR from France is heading my way, and I hope she arrives before she is obliged to sign up to Australian values. I haven't met her but my girlfriend in Paris has emailed me a description that makes me rather nervous.

Gorgeous, sophisticated, intelligent, 18, the daughter of well-known filmmakers, the granddaughter of a renowned actress … I know she will want me to explain these Australian values.

I am familiar with these multilingual European sophisticates from previous encounters. If you live where I do, not far from a tourist attraction, they are always wanting to usher you into a cafe and, after extolling the winter sunshine and Sydney rock oysters, quiz you in the politest possible manner on some aspect of Australian life that puzzles them. Up to now it has usually been our foreign policy.

It is never easy to explain to the French, even when they wipe the smirk off their face, why Australia is involved in the Iraq quagmire. Australians strike them as an irreverent lot. So why, the French ask in that earnest manner born of too many years at university, does Australia act like America's … ? They wave their hands about, in that Gallic style, seeking a word they never learnt at the lycee.

"Lap-dog," I offer helpfully. And, over wattle-seed pavlova that I press on them, I embark on a long-winded explanation of our sycophancy towards the US.

The ANZUS treaty, our fear of the Japanese, Chinese, and Indonesians, and of course the terrorists, all get a guernsey. We need the US on side just in case …

You know how superior the French can sound. "Perhaps if you were not so close to America, you would have less to fear," a young French house-guest once suggested. He was a chef, so explaining our foreign policy to him was a piece of cake compared with having to cook him a meal.

But then again it is easier to cook for a French chef, I have found, than it is to explain why Australians in the 1999 referendum rejected a republic and opted to stick with the Queen of England. I well remember a lunch with two French journalists - I had urged on them the char-grilled kangaroo sirloin with the wattle-seed fritters, against their better judgement. Having listened to my tortuous justification of the result - this model, that model - they raised their eyebrows. The French, they said in that delicious accented English that makes you wish we sounded like that, had so despised King Louis XVI, they had cut off his head even though he was a local.

I am dreading the conversations my visitor is bound to start on the matter of Australian values. She is young, gorgeous. She will meet young Australians.

And over wattle-seed muffins - she is an adventurer, no? - I will tell her that young Australians above all value drinking. Whether alco-pops, wine, or beer, it matters not what is drunk, its provenance, or the year in which it was bottled. What is valued here is how much you can drink of it.

She has travelled widely, but not, I believe, in Anglo countries. So in case she is under the misapprehension that drinking a lot means two glasses of beaujolais I will expand. Young Australians value drinking to get drunk, drinking the boys under the table, and drinking till you spew, comprends-tu?

She is from a cultured family. So I must break the news gently - perhaps on the Manly ferry - about the value Australians place on sport. Her arrival coincides with the AFL final, the NRL final (RUGBY!!!!!), and the A League (SOCCER!!!!!)in full swing. And Australians are already getting feverish about the upcoming Ashes Tests (THE CRICKET AGAINST OLD ENEMY ENGLAND!!!!!).

If she is in the habit of discussing Derrida or Foucault, or those other poncy French thinkers, she will have to desist. Big, bad Barry Hall is the sort of bloke we honour here, I'll tell her, and Danny Buderus is another we value highly, no matter the spear tackle.

And on the subject of heroes, I'll warn her about the Melbourne Cup, and how she must honour the horses. It is disrespectful of Australian values to fail to watch the race, place a bet, or participate in an office sweep should she be employed by then. She wouldn't want her Aussie friends to think she's a European intellectual.

On the subject of employment, I will tell her that in Australia, contrary to mythology, we honour hard work. We elect a government dedicated to making us work harder. So if she thinks we are impressed by France's 35-hour week, and its cafe society, she is wrong. Latte-drinker, I will tell her, is a term of abuse in (tough) Australia.

She is a Parisian so she will lack the due respect for property ownership that is a core Australian value. Doubtless she lives with her family in a rented apartment the size of an average Australian kitchen. Once she has navigated the house, I will tell her that most middle-class Australian families so value property ownership they have not one, but two, houses. How do you say "negative gearing" in French?

If she's a fun-loving girl at heart, she will fall in love with Australia - as the French invariably do - and embrace what we hold dear. But if she spies the worm at the heart of our values, I am ready. When the questions start about Villawood, Baxter, Nauru and Australia's unique approach to asylum seekers, I will tell her: "Yes, we may lock up our Muslims, but at least in Australia, they are free to wear their head scarves."

www.smh.com.au . . .

* * *

So is the bimbo going to Australia to look for a job because she can't find one in France, or not? I don't suppose it's anything as simple as fleeing France's overwhelming Muslim problem.