Does Israel have a right to exist?
- Thread starter Crusader
- Start date
I think they have a legal right to the land...all the land that was given and all they land they took when they were attacked.
As far as the bible is concerned....we have to remember that most of the Israelites were take abroad....but they are still Israel.
As far as the bible is concerned....we have to remember that most of the Israelites were take abroad....but they are still Israel.
Open the gates, so the righteous nation, keeper of the faith, may enter!
Isiah 26:1
For thus said my Lord Hashem/Elohim, the Holy One of Israel: In stillness and peacefulness will you be saved, in quiet and in confidence will be tour might,' but you did not consent
Isaiah 30:15
בOn that day, you will not be ashamed of all your deeds by which you have wantonly sinned against Me. For then I will remove from your midst those who exult in your arrogance, and you will no longer continue to be haughty on My holy mountain. And I will leave in your midst a humble and destitute people, and they will take shelter in the Name of Hashem. The remnant of Israel will not commit corruption , they willnot speak falsehood, and a deceitful tongue will not be found in their mouth; for they will graze and lie down with none to make them afraid.
Zephaniah 3:11
הStrengthen weak hands and give support to failing knees Say to those of impatient heart, 'Be strong; do not fear. Behold, your God will come with revenge, with Divine retribution; He will come and save you. Then the eyes of the blind will be opened and the ears of the deaf will be unstopped.
Isaiah 35:3
For there is yet another vision about the appointed time; it will speak of the End and it will not deceive. Though it may tarry, await it, for it will surely come; it will not delay.
Habakkuk 3:3
Therefore, wait for Me - the word of Hashem - for the day when I will arise to plunder. For My judgment will be to assemble nations, to gather kingdoms, to pour My fury upon them, all My burning wrath; for with the fire of My jealousy the entire earth will be consumed. For then I will change the nations a pure language, so that they all will proclaim the Name of Hashem; to worship Him with a united resolve.
Zephaniah 3:8
etc. etc. etc. need I say more.
Isiah 26:1
For thus said my Lord Hashem/Elohim, the Holy One of Israel: In stillness and peacefulness will you be saved, in quiet and in confidence will be tour might,' but you did not consent
Isaiah 30:15
בOn that day, you will not be ashamed of all your deeds by which you have wantonly sinned against Me. For then I will remove from your midst those who exult in your arrogance, and you will no longer continue to be haughty on My holy mountain. And I will leave in your midst a humble and destitute people, and they will take shelter in the Name of Hashem. The remnant of Israel will not commit corruption , they willnot speak falsehood, and a deceitful tongue will not be found in their mouth; for they will graze and lie down with none to make them afraid.
Zephaniah 3:11
הStrengthen weak hands and give support to failing knees Say to those of impatient heart, 'Be strong; do not fear. Behold, your God will come with revenge, with Divine retribution; He will come and save you. Then the eyes of the blind will be opened and the ears of the deaf will be unstopped.
Isaiah 35:3
For there is yet another vision about the appointed time; it will speak of the End and it will not deceive. Though it may tarry, await it, for it will surely come; it will not delay.
Habakkuk 3:3
Therefore, wait for Me - the word of Hashem - for the day when I will arise to plunder. For My judgment will be to assemble nations, to gather kingdoms, to pour My fury upon them, all My burning wrath; for with the fire of My jealousy the entire earth will be consumed. For then I will change the nations a pure language, so that they all will proclaim the Name of Hashem; to worship Him with a united resolve.
Zephaniah 3:8
etc. etc. etc. need I say more.
Re: Right to Exist
Crusader, good afternoon.
With due respect, of course, I don't think that it would be appropriate to ajudge the right of a nation to exist based on whatever representations may be made in the Holy Bible — notwithstanding whether or not the return of the LORD would be assessed as having occured or not. I would suggest that whatever may happen to be depicted in the Bible should not have any appreciable role for the State of Israel, in terms of its right to exist.
Yes, I do think that Israel should have the right to exist.
Crusader, good afternoon.
With due respect, of course, I don't think that it would be appropriate to ajudge the right of a nation to exist based on whatever representations may be made in the Holy Bible — notwithstanding whether or not the return of the LORD would be assessed as having occured or not. I would suggest that whatever may happen to be depicted in the Bible should not have any appreciable role for the State of Israel, in terms of its right to exist.
Yes, I do think that Israel should have the right to exist.
Re: Right to Exist
[quote="FiveParadox"Crusader, good afternoon.
With due respect, of course, I don't think that it would be appropriate to ajudge the right of a nation to exist based on whatever representations may be made in the Holy Bible — notwithstanding whether or not the return of the LORD would be assessed as having occured or not. I would suggest that whatever may happen to be depicted in the Bible should not have any appreciable role for the State of Israel, in terms of its right to exist.
Yes, I do think that Israel should have the right to exist.
Then we'll have to agree to disagree, friend. However, I will concede one point to the Zionists. According to the pre-1844 Millerite Movement, the rapture was supposed to have occurred in 1844. Needless to say, that interpretation had to change after that fateful day, and so the Adventist movement (which arose from the Millerite movement), concluded that the "sanctuary" referred to in the Bible did not refer to earth specifically but rather a spiritual one. Coincidently, the Ottoman Empire did grant Jews the right of return that same year. And seeing that prophecy clearly indicates that the Jews would return AFTER the return of the LORD, then perhaps there has been a misunderstanding of the definition of the return of the LORD, and that He did in fact, in some way not yet understood, return in some sense of the word in 1844. So I will concede that I could be wrong here.
[quote="FiveParadox"Crusader, good afternoon.
With due respect, of course, I don't think that it would be appropriate to ajudge the right of a nation to exist based on whatever representations may be made in the Holy Bible — notwithstanding whether or not the return of the LORD would be assessed as having occured or not. I would suggest that whatever may happen to be depicted in the Bible should not have any appreciable role for the State of Israel, in terms of its right to exist.
Yes, I do think that Israel should have the right to exist.
Then we'll have to agree to disagree, friend. However, I will concede one point to the Zionists. According to the pre-1844 Millerite Movement, the rapture was supposed to have occurred in 1844. Needless to say, that interpretation had to change after that fateful day, and so the Adventist movement (which arose from the Millerite movement), concluded that the "sanctuary" referred to in the Bible did not refer to earth specifically but rather a spiritual one. Coincidently, the Ottoman Empire did grant Jews the right of return that same year. And seeing that prophecy clearly indicates that the Jews would return AFTER the return of the LORD, then perhaps there has been a misunderstanding of the definition of the return of the LORD, and that He did in fact, in some way not yet understood, return in some sense of the word in 1844. So I will concede that I could be wrong here.
The strongest argument, in my view, that supports isreals right to exist--
is the viscious, perseqution of the jewish people, by mostly europeans---
obviously-- the nazis, but also others--
i try not to take sides in the isreali-palestinian conflict--- i see both sides as victims
isreal has a right to exist
but so does palestine
is the viscious, perseqution of the jewish people, by mostly europeans---
obviously-- the nazis, but also others--
i try not to take sides in the isreali-palestinian conflict--- i see both sides as victims
isreal has a right to exist
but so does palestine
Re: RE: Does Israel have a right to exist?
Wait a minute. If the argument for a Jewish state is that the Jews were persecuted by Germans, then would it not have been more logical to have given the Jews a part of German territory to build their state, rather than to involve the Palestinians who had nothing to do with it?cortezzz said:
RE: Does Israel have a ri
Yes chocolate has a right to exist, but only if abides by UN resolutions.
Yes chocolate has a right to exist, but only if abides by UN resolutions.
Re: RE: Does Israel have a right to exist?
agreed
but that wasnt going to happen
in fact no one wanted those jewish refugees
the argument was
that history would repeat itself
ie jews persequted
flee to other host nation
which is initaily tolerant
but then--perhaps several generations later
becomes intolerant of them
then forced to flee again
etc
Crusader said:
agreed
but that wasnt going to happen
in fact no one wanted those jewish refugees
the argument was
that history would repeat itself
ie jews persequted
flee to other host nation
which is initaily tolerant
but then--perhaps several generations later
becomes intolerant of them
then forced to flee again
etc
Hmmmmmmmmm
I guess Jews aren't included in "hate speech" in Canada?
Or bigotry is ok when it concerns the hated Jews?
I guess Jews aren't included in "hate speech" in Canada?
Or bigotry is ok when it concerns the hated Jews?
amazing how Europe now sticks up for the jewish people when we murdered them the whole time they were in Europe from the middle ages on. When you also take into consideration that most Jewish people in Isreal are Zionists as well, White Northern Europeans who claim to be Jewish, but look nothing like someone from the middle east. When you also consider they get all there support from people who look like them, North America and Europe, you kind to have to wonder if this isn't just some sort of new European imperialism on the region. Arab Jewish people lived in peace and harmoney in that area of Palistine before the creation of Isreal and the arrival of Northern European pasty white peoples who brought the violance to the region to set up a homeland in somebody elses homeland. Of course this is going to make conflic, xp when the leaders of this state arn't really the Jewish people of the middle east but those of Northern Europe and later Eastern Europe.
Does Isreal have the right to exist, yes and so does Palistine. Can they live together in peace.... No because they claime the same land and neither side are willing to give up much of it. While Isreal trys to make it look as if they are trying they are not. They give so little and use a heavy hand in dealings with the Palistinians as well as treating them as if they have no rights to the land as well. Of course Palistine is not a nation of angles and there support for terrorism has eruded their support from much of the west and the left across the world and really have shoot themselves in the foot countless of times.
As soon as both sides and even outsiders who are evolved in this conflic relieze the facts behind Isreal and Palistine, then perhaps we can move forward, but if we are going to blindly, or at least be colour blind in our dealings here and to the fact of history and the creation of Isreal and Palistine I do not think we stand much of a chance.
Does Isreal have the right to exist, yes and so does Palistine. Can they live together in peace.... No because they claime the same land and neither side are willing to give up much of it. While Isreal trys to make it look as if they are trying they are not. They give so little and use a heavy hand in dealings with the Palistinians as well as treating them as if they have no rights to the land as well. Of course Palistine is not a nation of angles and there support for terrorism has eruded their support from much of the west and the left across the world and really have shoot themselves in the foot countless of times.
As soon as both sides and even outsiders who are evolved in this conflic relieze the facts behind Isreal and Palistine, then perhaps we can move forward, but if we are going to blindly, or at least be colour blind in our dealings here and to the fact of history and the creation of Isreal and Palistine I do not think we stand much of a chance.