What do you think of this guy?
http://www.newtopiamagazine.net/mod...le=article&sid=47&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0
http://www.newtopiamagazine.net/mod...le=article&sid=47&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0
David Ray Griffin and 911
- Thread starter mrmom2
- Start date
The silence on this thread from our US friends speaks volumes to what Griffin has to say about 911.
RE: David Ray Griffin and
Well The truth hurts, I guess. I did like this though.
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbors’ oil.
Thou shalt not murder thy neighbors in order to steal their oil.
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbors, accusing them of illicitly harboring weapons of mass destruction, in order to justify killing them in order to steal their oil.
Thank mrmom2 for another great read.
Well The truth hurts, I guess. I did like this though.
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbors’ oil.
Thou shalt not murder thy neighbors in order to steal their oil.
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbors, accusing them of illicitly harboring weapons of mass destruction, in order to justify killing them in order to steal their oil.
Thank mrmom2 for another great read.
RE: David Ray Griffin and
I am really amazed at the silence. I thought it was a well written article and articulated the points nicely.
I am really amazed at the silence. I thought it was a well written article and articulated the points nicely.
He gave a presentation on Cspan in front of some commitee in the US No1.I don't know why these guys won't talk about it :? Its maybe they don't want to face the truth because it throws everthing they believed in their govermental system out the window so much for freedom 
You presume too much that "us" Americans don't respond.
What is it exactly do you want me to say?
That I was on the roof of 30 West Broadway and saw a remote controlled aircraft fly into the North Tower?
That the people jumping to their deaths were manikins?
That they blew up the towers with explosives?
That tower 7 was blown up in the afternoon while some of us tried to help rescue teams?
Or that the US government planned the whole dam thing in advance?
Let me tell you all something, to presume you know more about this than those of us that lived through it, irritates me. It irritates me not because you have a need to know, it irritates me because you assume we are all idiots and believe what we are told.
For those of us who were running away from the ash and dust cloud, I'll tell you this, for every action there is a reaction and for every cause there is an effect.
So you can all say as you wish and believe what you want, there is no flexibility on any discussions here.
I have repeatedly challenged anyone to post anything they wish about the morning of September 11th. And none of you have done so other than post conspiracy theory sites. Theories are great but thats all they are. There is not a shread of evidence to support any of this. Its all about connecting dots and pieces of a puzzle that do not exist.
So if you want to "debate" something, I'm all ears. Just remember this; How can a government so overtly inept as many claim to be, be so competent covertly.
What is it exactly do you want me to say?
That I was on the roof of 30 West Broadway and saw a remote controlled aircraft fly into the North Tower?
That the people jumping to their deaths were manikins?
That they blew up the towers with explosives?
That tower 7 was blown up in the afternoon while some of us tried to help rescue teams?
Or that the US government planned the whole dam thing in advance?
Let me tell you all something, to presume you know more about this than those of us that lived through it, irritates me. It irritates me not because you have a need to know, it irritates me because you assume we are all idiots and believe what we are told.
For those of us who were running away from the ash and dust cloud, I'll tell you this, for every action there is a reaction and for every cause there is an effect.
So you can all say as you wish and believe what you want, there is no flexibility on any discussions here.
I have repeatedly challenged anyone to post anything they wish about the morning of September 11th. And none of you have done so other than post conspiracy theory sites. Theories are great but thats all they are. There is not a shread of evidence to support any of this. Its all about connecting dots and pieces of a puzzle that do not exist.
So if you want to "debate" something, I'm all ears. Just remember this; How can a government so overtly inept as many claim to be, be so competent covertly.
Now thats what I wanted to hear a real honest opinion about what happend .Thanks ITN thats very interresting :wink: By the way my cousin left for ground zero a couple of days latter and helped out .He's a Vancouver fireman and he told me about his expirence it was not pleasant
mrmom2 said:
Well tell your cousin many thanks from a New Yorker. He's always welcomed to the city that never sleeps.
Conspiracy theories lie in the realms of improbability, they are generated by lack of trust or logic.
Ask me if those towers were blown up or not. I've been in construction most of my life, even when a building implodes you have to EXPLODE the columns.
And every year since I go to those grounds and think not just of those people that died on that day, but all who have perished around the world for some sick twisted purpose.
"A hundred times every day I remind myself that my inner and outer life depends on the labors of other men, living and dead, and that I must exert myself in order to give in the measure as I have received and am still receiving." -- Albert Einstein
ITN I'm sorry if I brought up some bad memorys for you that was not my intent at all and if was thinking I probably shoudn't have asked This whole 911 thing has changed the way I look at the powers that be and I could'nt help myself sorry man :wink:
This whole 911 thing has changed the way I look at the powers that be and I could'nt help myself sorry man :wink:
mrmom2 said:ITN I'm sorry if I brought up some bad memorys for you that was not my intent at all and if was thinking I probably shoudn't have asked
There is no reason to be sorry, I cant really blame people for thinking the way they do, hell I never trusted my government or any government for that matter.
And its quite alright, we need to be reminded not only of this (ok maybe I am a little sensitive because I lived through it) there is so much more, Bali bombing, Madrid Bombing and even the Iraq war.
When tragedies such as 911 happen we all seek to find a reason why, its human nature.
I like it ITN but haven't they already decide on those glass towers with the water streaming down the outsides :?
Yeah they have, but Donald Trump (a very wealthy developer) spent his own money and is lobbying to put the WTC back the way it was. He made a goo dpoint and is gaining support from many New Yorkers, including myself. If they had slammed the plane into the Statue of Liberty would we want to erect another structure in its place? No!
This is a rather sensitive issue for New Yorkers, as we see a blank spot every morning where the towers used to be. If you notice the lines run horizontal instead of vertical in the new WTC Tower design. Hopefully it will pass. No New Yorker cares about a 1776 foot tower, we want our skyline back.
This is a rather sensitive issue for New Yorkers, as we see a blank spot every morning where the towers used to be. If you notice the lines run horizontal instead of vertical in the new WTC Tower design. Hopefully it will pass. No New Yorker cares about a 1776 foot tower, we want our skyline back.
I think not said:
I'm sorry, were you talking to me?
Thanks for introducing us to DRG mr.mom, I just finished watching the CSpan presentation...I've heard of DRG before, and I've been meaning to pick up The New Pearl Harbour for some time now...he mentioned a few other names that I'm familiar with, specifically Michael Ruppert whose site www.fromthewilderness.com is very informative...
I thought his presentation was quite well thought out in its four point approach, and he did a good job of legitimizing most of what we 'conspiracy theorists' already surmised...he also referenced Paul Thompson and the timeline I've posted above...
In reading through the 9/11 Timeline, keep in mind that all sources he references are from mainstream media...
Oh those whacky conspiracy theories...
Very interesting Vanni, and actually, I wasn't really talking to you, since I believe you know better, hence my surprise.
Here's the problem I am facing:
1) You are set in your views and any attempt I make to debunk any of this, you will just disregard as right wing lies.
2) I'm not quite sure where to start, since there are so many issues in your mind surrounding 9/11 it will turn into a very long discussion so I suggest we approach each issue one at a time and see what your responses will be.
Let's begin first with the most interesting one in my view: Our Air Force was ordered to Stand Down on 9/11 or do nothing.
If you would read a little further than the usual conspiracy theory sites you may discover some more information you are not aware of and the authors of those conspiracy theory sites may also not be aware of--or choose to disregard.
First of all let me just remind you, the person in charge of NORAD that morning was Canadian Lt. General Rick "Eric" Findley. So to purport this was all a coverup would imply that the Canadian government was behind this also, its possible :wink: , they didn't tell you about Canadas involvement in Iraq. But I digress.
"On 9/11 there were only 14 fighter jets on alert in the contiguous 48 states. No computer network or alarm automatically alerted the North American Air Defense Command (NORAD) of missing planes. "They [civilian Air Traffic Control, or ATC] had to pick up the phone and literally dial us," says Maj. Douglas Martin, public affairs officer for NORAD. Boston Center, one of 22 Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) regional ATC facilities, called NORAD's Northeast Air Defense Sector (NEADS) three times: at 8:37 am EST to inform NEADS that Flight 11 was hijacked; at 9:21 am to inform the agency, mistakenly, that Flight 11 was headed for Washington (the plane had hit the North Tower 35 minutes earlier); and at 9:41 am to (erroneously) identify Delta Air Lines Flight 1989 from Boston as a possible hijacking. The New York ATC called NEADS at 9:03 am to report that United Flight 175 had been hijacked--the same time the plane slammed into the South Tower. Within minutes of that first call from Boston Center, NEADS scrambled two F-15s from Otis Air Force Base in Falmouth, Mass., and three F-16s from Langley Air National Guard Base in Hampton, Va. None of the fighters got anywhere near the pirated planes.
Why couldn't ATC find the hijacked flights? When the hijackers turned off the planes' transponders, which broadcast identifying signals, ATC had to search 4500 identical radar blips crisscrossing some of the country's busiest air corridors. And NORAD's sophisticated radar? It ringed the continent, looking outward for threats, not inward. "It was like a doughnut," Martin says. "There was no coverage in the middle." Pre-9/11, flights originating in the States were not seen as threats and NORAD wasn't prepared to track them."
Your turn
Here's the problem I am facing:
1) You are set in your views and any attempt I make to debunk any of this, you will just disregard as right wing lies.
2) I'm not quite sure where to start, since there are so many issues in your mind surrounding 9/11 it will turn into a very long discussion so I suggest we approach each issue one at a time and see what your responses will be.
Let's begin first with the most interesting one in my view: Our Air Force was ordered to Stand Down on 9/11 or do nothing.
If you would read a little further than the usual conspiracy theory sites you may discover some more information you are not aware of and the authors of those conspiracy theory sites may also not be aware of--or choose to disregard.
First of all let me just remind you, the person in charge of NORAD that morning was Canadian Lt. General Rick "Eric" Findley. So to purport this was all a coverup would imply that the Canadian government was behind this also, its possible :wink: , they didn't tell you about Canadas involvement in Iraq. But I digress.
"On 9/11 there were only 14 fighter jets on alert in the contiguous 48 states. No computer network or alarm automatically alerted the North American Air Defense Command (NORAD) of missing planes. "They [civilian Air Traffic Control, or ATC] had to pick up the phone and literally dial us," says Maj. Douglas Martin, public affairs officer for NORAD. Boston Center, one of 22 Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) regional ATC facilities, called NORAD's Northeast Air Defense Sector (NEADS) three times: at 8:37 am EST to inform NEADS that Flight 11 was hijacked; at 9:21 am to inform the agency, mistakenly, that Flight 11 was headed for Washington (the plane had hit the North Tower 35 minutes earlier); and at 9:41 am to (erroneously) identify Delta Air Lines Flight 1989 from Boston as a possible hijacking. The New York ATC called NEADS at 9:03 am to report that United Flight 175 had been hijacked--the same time the plane slammed into the South Tower. Within minutes of that first call from Boston Center, NEADS scrambled two F-15s from Otis Air Force Base in Falmouth, Mass., and three F-16s from Langley Air National Guard Base in Hampton, Va. None of the fighters got anywhere near the pirated planes.
Why couldn't ATC find the hijacked flights? When the hijackers turned off the planes' transponders, which broadcast identifying signals, ATC had to search 4500 identical radar blips crisscrossing some of the country's busiest air corridors. And NORAD's sophisticated radar? It ringed the continent, looking outward for threats, not inward. "It was like a doughnut," Martin says. "There was no coverage in the middle." Pre-9/11, flights originating in the States were not seen as threats and NORAD wasn't prepared to track them."
Your turn
I've been reading some of your posts, I think not. I'm not sure what to make of you except that you seem to really dislike Canada. I thought I should point out that you are wrong though. Not only were Canadians aware that they mave have troops peripherally involved in the Iraq Attack, but the New Democratic Party asked questions about it several times in question period.
Now back to the neverending examples of how the Bush government allowed 9-11 to happen.