Super Genius
Posts: 1,103 
June 29th, 2004, 11:31 AM
Quoting
Exactly WHAT 'poisionus lies'?
I did. More of your poisionus lies written by people like you who can not think for themselves. I read and I analyze. I see and I ask, I hear and I inquire. Bottom line it is you that have to analyze the truth and be fed to you with a spoon.
Super Genius
Posts: 1,103
June 29th, 2004, 11:37 AM
Many of the 'facts' presented don't hold up to scrutiny.
Just off the top of my head, Joseph Wilson, of Valerie Plume fame, has no ADMITTED there was an attempt to buy nuclear material. There is no evidence to backup the claim that Plumes 'outing' was by the WH.
Youre Enron analogy eludes me.
Anyway, if youll be around later, I can address the rest of your post-- gotta go into a meeting soon.
Many of the 'facts' presented don't hold up to scrutiny.
Just off the top of my head, Joseph Wilson, of Valerie Plume fame, has no ADMITTED there was an attempt to buy nuclear material. There is no evidence to backup the claim that Plumes 'outing' was by the WH.
Youre Enron analogy eludes me.
Anyway, if youll be around later, I can address the rest of your post-- gotta go into a meeting soon.
Super Genius
Posts: 1,103
June 29th, 2004, 11:39 AM
Nevertheless, there has not been one instance where UN intervention (by itself) has worked.
That's why Darfur remains a frightening prospect
Quoting
Thats a good argument, actually, not one I disagree with.
I never said anything about getting rid of suddam was bad. I said the way he dealt with it, Thats why we have the UN you know, because he starting to remind me of Hitler when he didn't listen to the Leauge of Nations.
Nevertheless, there has not been one instance where UN intervention (by itself) has worked.
That's why Darfur remains a frightening prospect
Super Genius
Posts: 1,320
Location: Winnipeg
Location: Winnipeg
June 30th, 2004, 05:45 AM
There is evidence of White House spin in the outing of Valerie Plame as well. Somebody in the White House leaked information to a reporter known to be friendly to the Bush administration. That's White House involvement right there. Bush did all he could to not investigate that leak even though he has gone after other leaks doggedly. Whoever leaked the information broke US federal law about revealing the identity of CIA agents.
I'm going to have to ask for a direct link to whatever you have saying that Wilson admits to Saddam buying nuclear material, Researchok. It better be about yellowcake from Nigeria too because that's what he investigated, what he found to be a hoax, and what the Bush White House chose to lie about.
Quote:
Hitchens has never been left. Even when he was at the Nation, most considered him the token Conservative. Not sure what you're trying to spin here.
See below, Christpher Hitchens-- about as left as left can get.
There is evidence of White House spin in the outing of Valerie Plame as well. Somebody in the White House leaked information to a reporter known to be friendly to the Bush administration. That's White House involvement right there. Bush did all he could to not investigate that leak even though he has gone after other leaks doggedly. Whoever leaked the information broke US federal law about revealing the identity of CIA agents.
I'm going to have to ask for a direct link to whatever you have saying that Wilson admits to Saddam buying nuclear material, Researchok. It better be about yellowcake from Nigeria too because that's what he investigated, what he found to be a hoax, and what the Bush White House chose to lie about.
Super Genius
Posts: 1,103
June 30th, 2004, 07:52 AM
You mean you won't take my word for it? That seems to work a lot around here!
Just kidding. Here's a quote and a few links.
"It was Saddam Hussein's information minister, Mohammed Saeed Sahhaf, often referred to in the Western press as "Baghdad Bob," who approached an official of the African nation of Niger in 1999 to discuss trade -- an overture the official saw as a possible effort to buy uranium.
That's according to a new book Joseph C. Wilson IV, a former ambassador who was sent to Niger by the CIA in 2002 to investigate reports that Iraq had been trying to buy enriched "yellowcake" uranium. Wilson wrote that he did not learn the identity of the Iraqi official until this January, when he talked again with his Niger source."
Here's a site with further links, WP etc.
http://www.porphyrogenitus.net/archives/cat_iraq.html
I'm not crazy about his politics. but he's usually pretty solid on his research.
As for Hitchens, he was ALWAYS a lefty before 9/11. Yes he was idiosyncratic but he was a lefty.
http://archive.salon.com/news/featur...0/29/hitchens/
Also, Bush DID go after white House leaks the WP has a couple of archived stories on that. There were JD interviews as I recall. As for characterizing a WH leaker as WH 'involvement', wouldn't that same standard then apply to Hillary Clinton's Rose Law firm records found in her study, FBI files, Kathleen Willey, etc etc? By your logic, that too, would imply WH involvement and thus WH culpability. My point is, the misdeeds of an individual in the WH doesnt NECESSARILY mean WH involvement.
I do wish though, that Bob Novak WOULD come clean on who the leaker was. It's been too much of a distraction. Of there was WH involvement, lets get to the bottom of it-- if not, let it go.
Quoting
There is evidence of White House spin in the outing of Valerie Plame as well. Somebody in the White House leaked information to a reporter known to be friendly to the Bush administration. That's White House involvement right there. Bush did all he could to not investigate that leak even though he has gone after other leaks doggedly. Whoever leaked the information broke US federal law about revealing the identity of CIA agents.
I'm going to have to ask for a direct link to whatever you have saying that Wilson admits to Saddam buying nuclear material, Researchok. It better be about yellowcake from Nigeria too because that's what he investigated, what he found to be a hoax, and what the Bush White House chose to lie about.
Quote:
Hitchens has never been left. Even when he was at the Nation, most considered him the token Conservative. Not sure what you're trying to spin here.
See below, Christpher Hitchens-- about as left as left can get.
There is evidence of White House spin in the outing of Valerie Plame as well. Somebody in the White House leaked information to a reporter known to be friendly to the Bush administration. That's White House involvement right there. Bush did all he could to not investigate that leak even though he has gone after other leaks doggedly. Whoever leaked the information broke US federal law about revealing the identity of CIA agents.
I'm going to have to ask for a direct link to whatever you have saying that Wilson admits to Saddam buying nuclear material, Researchok. It better be about yellowcake from Nigeria too because that's what he investigated, what he found to be a hoax, and what the Bush White House chose to lie about.
You mean you won't take my word for it? That seems to work a lot around here!
Just kidding. Here's a quote and a few links.
"It was Saddam Hussein's information minister, Mohammed Saeed Sahhaf, often referred to in the Western press as "Baghdad Bob," who approached an official of the African nation of Niger in 1999 to discuss trade -- an overture the official saw as a possible effort to buy uranium.
That's according to a new book Joseph C. Wilson IV, a former ambassador who was sent to Niger by the CIA in 2002 to investigate reports that Iraq had been trying to buy enriched "yellowcake" uranium. Wilson wrote that he did not learn the identity of the Iraqi official until this January, when he talked again with his Niger source."
Here's a site with further links, WP etc.
http://www.porphyrogenitus.net/archives/cat_iraq.html
I'm not crazy about his politics. but he's usually pretty solid on his research.
As for Hitchens, he was ALWAYS a lefty before 9/11. Yes he was idiosyncratic but he was a lefty.
http://archive.salon.com/news/featur...0/29/hitchens/
Also, Bush DID go after white House leaks the WP has a couple of archived stories on that. There were JD interviews as I recall. As for characterizing a WH leaker as WH 'involvement', wouldn't that same standard then apply to Hillary Clinton's Rose Law firm records found in her study, FBI files, Kathleen Willey, etc etc? By your logic, that too, would imply WH involvement and thus WH culpability. My point is, the misdeeds of an individual in the WH doesnt NECESSARILY mean WH involvement.
I do wish though, that Bob Novak WOULD come clean on who the leaker was. It's been too much of a distraction. Of there was WH involvement, lets get to the bottom of it-- if not, let it go.
Super Genius
Posts: 1,320
Location: Winnipeg
Location: Winnipeg
June 30th, 2004, 08:03 AM
Wilson never said that Bush lied about Saddam trying to get uranium, he said that Bush lied about the documentation regarding the yellowcake. Lets not mince words here...Bush lied.
I'm pretty familiar with Hitchen's work. I'm a fan of his and have been for a few years. Calling him leftist is like calling Paul Martin a communist...it doesn't stand up to scrutiny. He was considered the token conservative at the Nation, but really he was more of a centrist there. When he moved to Salon he slowly began moving more and more right. His hack-job on Moore is his coming out as a full-bore Bu****e.
Quote:
Not exactly a smoking gun and what was presented as a smoking was still a lie, one that Wilson told the White House about and one that the White House chose to try to use anyway.
an overture the official saw as a possible effort to buy uranium.
Wilson never said that Bush lied about Saddam trying to get uranium, he said that Bush lied about the documentation regarding the yellowcake. Lets not mince words here...Bush lied.
I'm pretty familiar with Hitchen's work. I'm a fan of his and have been for a few years. Calling him leftist is like calling Paul Martin a communist...it doesn't stand up to scrutiny. He was considered the token conservative at the Nation, but really he was more of a centrist there. When he moved to Salon he slowly began moving more and more right. His hack-job on Moore is his coming out as a full-bore Bu****e.
Super Genius
Posts: 1,103
June 30th, 2004, 08:15 AM
In the end, the WH was mislead. Im all for the public excoriation of the entire IC, INCLUDING the NSC, Condi Rice in charge notwithstanding.
So lets not mince words, as you say. The same info was presented to Clinton numerous times and he accepted it as fact as well.
Off topic now and no hatchets, please!-- did you really think his slate piece was a hatchet job? I thought there was some pretty fair critique there.
In the end, the WH was mislead. Im all for the public excoriation of the entire IC, INCLUDING the NSC, Condi Rice in charge notwithstanding.
So lets not mince words, as you say. The same info was presented to Clinton numerous times and he accepted it as fact as well.
Off topic now and no hatchets, please!-- did you really think his slate piece was a hatchet job? I thought there was some pretty fair critique there.
Super Genius
Posts: 1,103
June 30th, 2004, 12:41 PM
Rev, acme across this. Makes for an intersting read, from the FT.
http://medienkritik.typepad.com/blog/ you can link from there
"Intelligence backs claim Iraq tried to buy uranium
Illicit sales of uranium from Niger were being negotiated with five states including Iraq at least three years before the US-led invasion, senior European intelligence officials have told the Financial Times.
Intelligence officers learned between 1999 and 2001 that uranium smugglers planned to sell illicitly mined Nigerien uranium ore, or refined ore called yellow cake, to Iran, Libya, China, North Korea and Iraq.
These claims support the assertion made in the British government dossier on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction programme in September 2002 that Iraq had sought to buy uranium from an African country, confirmed later as Niger. George W. Bush, US president, referred to the issue in his State of the Union address in January 2003. (...)"
I suspect the WMD story still has legs.
Rev, acme across this. Makes for an intersting read, from the FT.
http://medienkritik.typepad.com/blog/ you can link from there
"Intelligence backs claim Iraq tried to buy uranium
Illicit sales of uranium from Niger were being negotiated with five states including Iraq at least three years before the US-led invasion, senior European intelligence officials have told the Financial Times.
Intelligence officers learned between 1999 and 2001 that uranium smugglers planned to sell illicitly mined Nigerien uranium ore, or refined ore called yellow cake, to Iran, Libya, China, North Korea and Iraq.
These claims support the assertion made in the British government dossier on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction programme in September 2002 that Iraq had sought to buy uranium from an African country, confirmed later as Niger. George W. Bush, US president, referred to the issue in his State of the Union address in January 2003. (...)"
I suspect the WMD story still has legs.
