What if Climate Change was a Hoax ?

Francis2004

Subjective Poster
Nov 18, 2008
2,846
34
48
Lower Mainland, BC
Ok say man made "Climate Change" was a hoax?

I really don't care if you think it is or not that is not my point and neither will I argue it..

What if we actually cleaned up the planet and did it at little or not cost?

Do you live in a pig pen at home?

Do you like to breath dangerous chemical?

What is it that compels man to live in a world that he believe he can trash?

And last but not least, what if the Green initiative propose by Obama actually stimulates the economy and gets people working again, yet does nothing to reduce the Global Warming?

After all I hope most of you know the difference between Global Warming and Climate Change ?

What if ?????????
 

Francis2004

Subjective Poster
Nov 18, 2008
2,846
34
48
Lower Mainland, BC
Speaking of Green initiatives, have you seen the web site Go Green Initiative ?

The statistic below is staggering considering the rate of population..

According to the U.S. Census Bureau, the world population is expanding at a mind-boggling rate. The world reached 1 billion people in 1800; 2 billion by 1922; and over 6 billion by 2000. It is estimated that the population will swell to over 9 billion by 2050. That means that if the world’s natural resources were evenly distributed, people in 2050 will only have 25% of the resources per capita that people in 1950 had.

Go Green Initiative -
 

Diarygirl

Electoral Member
Oct 28, 2008
551
4
18
Newfoundland
I grew up with "recycling" many years ago. (Mind you, we didn't know that was what it was.) We didn't waste. We used things until they were actually of no use even after repairs or the such and even then we tried to be conservative in breaking them down for other uses. For example clothing was turned into quilts or furniture was turned into shelving, etc. Today you can see that there are people who live with "new" things just to keep up with the "times" even though their things still have usage. Thank goodness most give to charity so that the charities can in turn give to others that need them.
As for a pig pen, that depends on how people grow up. Some grow up in nice clean homes and others grow up in pig pens, hence it's learned behaviour in most cases or laziness in some.
Some people trash this world because they think of the now and not the future. In my opinion, they don't respect it and don't care about tomorrow.
 

Diarygirl

Electoral Member
Oct 28, 2008
551
4
18
Newfoundland
Just read your last post SirFrancis and have to agree with the way the population is growing, the usage of cars, and the chemicals that are being released into the atmosphere and water, sure is mind boggling! It would be great if everyone could be more aware and if there could be more control in what amount/kinds of chemicals are being released by manufacturing plants, etc.
 

Francis2004

Subjective Poster
Nov 18, 2008
2,846
34
48
Lower Mainland, BC
Some people trash this world because they think of the now and not the future. In my opinion, they don't respect it and don't care about tomorrow.

I agree, but my best argument to that is even those who love to live in a garbage filled house would not stick their mouths on the exhaust pipe of a car and inhale?

People need to start to this of all the health issues we have and could prevent from Chemicals we use or discard carelessly.

Regardless of your views on Climate Change or Global Warming.
 

mit

Electoral Member
Nov 26, 2008
273
5
18
SouthWestern Ontario
I doubt that we could afford to live organically - or in fact live the long lives that we as a human race now enjoy. In our race to be GREEN we are killing jobs and endangering our way of life all while increasing our dependance on governments to choose what is good for us.
I agree that we as humans have to take more responsibility and choose wisely how we use the fruits of our modern day inventions but litter is not a packaging problem it is a human problem.
Something as simple as a plastic grocery bag has eveloved in to an item that now uses one fourth of the plastic it used 15 years ago - It has a smaller carbon footprint than the paper sacks (remember asking for double bags?) it replaced and if it is properly returned to the manufacturer it can be recycled - it can be reused as a garbage bag or storage unit - reused at the grocery store again and if by chance it gets landfilled does not release methane in the air or pollutants in the groundwater for hundreds of years.
Landfills are not compost heaps and the modern landfill does not want things decaying in it - Layers of dirt are applied to prevent decomposition such that a hot dog can be dug up years later in reasonable shape and newspapers can be read years after they were buried.
Our efforts to have preservative free foods opens us up to more salmonella outbreaks and yet we fear irradiation of foods. TetraPaks can now store milk unrefrigerated for a year - provide almost as good as fresh juices out of season without refrigeration or chemicals maintain a fruit farmers income over the year instead of the short picking season, allow bruised or mishapen fruits to be used reducing waste and create local employment. BUT we are taught that fresh is best - even if it does come from countries that have suspect or dwindling water supplies and are thousands of miles away.
There are no canneries left in Ontario that can fruit that will now mean these acres of trees will be turned in to cash crop land with high carbon inputs even though our forefathers (mothers) use these fruits to stay healthy through the winter.
Packaging has done more to advance our health than modern medicine could ever hope to do.
 

VanIsle

Always thinking
Nov 12, 2008
7,046
43
48
mit,
Did you know that Sunrype brings it's juice in from foreign countries in tankers? Cost of groceries is getting so high that soon we will have to start growing our own. The average city lot is so small that only 10 feet (3 metres)exists between new houses. How do we even grow much of a garden with yards like that? I know that many of the houses on the same street I live on don't have more than 15 feet of back yard. It's not that there isn't room. It's that developers are so hungry for the extra houses they can squeeze in that they are forcing us to almost live on top of each other. The dollar goes down, the cost of oil goes down, the cost of gasoline goes up (?)so consumption goes down, and nothing helps the auto industry. Today they showed line-ups of people in Vancouver hoping to get a job - any job. One girl figured she had 600 resumes out and she had received only 2 job interviews which she obviously was not successful in. She said she thought her next stop would be MacDonald's and she wasn't going there to dine.
 

mit

Electoral Member
Nov 26, 2008
273
5
18
SouthWestern Ontario
Islandpacific - For the 1% of people that read labels the new regulations brought in by Mr Harper will be an eyeopener - No longer can product of Canada be put on a can of Chinese applejuice if the ingredients are not significantly from Canada. Unfortunately a disclaimer that says imported ingredients will suffice so you will not know if the apple juice came from USA - Argentina or China. But it is a start.
The problem is not where goods are sourced but the fact that we no longer have the facilities to produce many grown in Canada goods. We had our first trade deficit in 3 decades last December - We are no longer even the hewers of wood or the diggers of mines or the farmers to the world. Our homegrown capabilities are being left to rot while we struggle to raise funds to buy imported goods.
Sadly we are too small and too far in the hole of manufacturing desolation to pull ourselves out without forming a North American Union. This at a time when joining the US in a common currency would be economic suicide.
We have a US president that is full of promises and platitudes but little substance and a PM that is bereft of ideas surrounded by a cabinet that is afraid to bring forth any new ideas out of fear of banishment. An opposition that is fractured at best and poising itself to be the "I told You so Party" in the next election.
Strange that we have to look to China and Brazil (former basket case economies) for cash and investments and more importantly ideas on how to turn an economy around. They looked at what they had in their basket (China a huge work force - Brazil rich resources) and said what can we use in our basket to make things better.
The USA is looking at protectionism - Canada is looking at the USA only as a market and in the meantime Mexico is getting new investments and jobs - they have control over their resources (Canada does not under NAFTA) and are poising themselves to become the economic powerhouse of North America (They have a huge population and resources)
It is not going to be pretty folks - Governments are going to scramble over each other to experiment with our dollars and offer foreign companies our borrowed future to set up token shops in our countries to the detriment of our own existing entities.
P.S. You may be amazed at how much you can grow on a 10x10 plot of land - This year my front lawn is being transformed in to a herb and flower garden. No grass to cut and once established no weeds. My daughters small raised bed garden in the backyard will see an extension that will keep us in salads, beans and tomatoes during the growing season and a small lean-to greenhouse will grace the southern face of our house in the fall (all made from cast-offs from work)
It is possible - just takes some effort on our own part.
 

Liberalman

Senate Member
Mar 18, 2007
5,623
35
48
Toronto
Due to the economic crash Green is not important anymore and as for the dying planet ask any Dinosaur earth has been dying for billions of years and for the bible thumpers for about six thousand years
 

Unforgiven

Force majeure
May 28, 2007
6,770
137
63
Oh didn't you know? It's not that no one cares, it's that enough people don't care, that will bring the rest down. You can have an electric car but someone else will choose the biggest, dirtiest sort of transportation possible. Those few who don't care and will do exactly the opposite of what is needed, will be more than enough to make up for the best efforts of everyone else.

Some people are just going to block the doorway of a burning theater and watch it all burn down until they themselves are killed along with it.
 

mit

Electoral Member
Nov 26, 2008
273
5
18
SouthWestern Ontario
If the US and Canadian governments play their cards right there has never been a better opportunity to fix things on this planet than right now -

With the price of oil low - it is a perfect opportunity to bring in a carbon tax on fuel - That will keep the net price of a barrel of oil low (pisses off the speculators) - raises revenue for the government (Much needed) makes conservation and bio-fuel - energy from waste etc. projects economically viable again and increases the cost of imports without imposing trade sanctions thus creating an opportunity for made in North America goods.

Create an export tax on recyclables - As the Globes biggest waste generator we have been shipping paper - plastic and steel to foreign factories that use this resource to ship finished products back to North America at the expense of our homegrown recyclers who must compete for recycled materials and the customers who use them. Creates income for governments from foreign sources not the taxpayer - encourages made in North America recycling and conversion efforts - Makes the cost of recyclables cheaper to our own manufacturers forces us to deal with our own wastes either through reuse (energy from waste) - reduction in use.
Creates jobs in sorting (I am sure there are enough people that are hungry enough for work that sorting trash is no longer beneath them) Keeps more money in North America -

Put a moritorium on government investments in new auto-plants - new papermills - new steel mills and any new factory where there is an empty industrial building and outlaw the ownership of industrial and commercial land by municipalities unless by property tax default
Implement a property tax system where full taxes must be paid whether a building is empty or not and reduce the taxes on the overall commercial property.
Creates a stable tax base for cities and municipalities - does not penalize those who remain active in the commercial sector - puts a crimp on the ability of speculators to create land banks and keeps prices lower on industrial/commercial land and motivates landlords to fill their buildings with reasonable rent or tear them down.

Ban new landfills and mine the old ones for locked in resources - Encourage energy from waste projects to run industrial establishments - create municipal heating systems where possible using ground source heating that line roadways and sewers extracting heat and delivering it through pipes in to homes. Creates revenue for municipalities - cleaner energy and low capital investment for the homeowner and it works in concentrated subdivisions better.

Simple cost effective solutions and user pay initiatives that could easily see budget surpluses in both economies in a few short years.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
547
113
Vernon, B.C.
Ok say man made "Climate Change" was a hoax?

I really don't care if you think it is or not that is not my point and neither will I argue it..

What if we actually cleaned up the planet and did it at little or not cost?

Do you live in a pig pen at home?

Do you like to breath dangerous chemical?

What is it that compels man to live in a world that he believe he can trash?

And last but not least, what if the Green initiative propose by Obama actually stimulates the economy and gets people working again, yet does nothing to reduce the Global Warming?

After all I hope most of you know the difference between Global Warming and Climate Change ?

What if ?????????

Good points, the climate is always changing and some years we get Global Warming and others we get Global cooling. I think just from a common sense viewpoint anything we can do to reduce pollution, conserves non renewable resources, create more renewable resources, recycle reusable waste and save ourselves money has got to be a good thing. I don't think it's necessary to get into philisophical debate or scientific arguments - just use a litte COMMON SENSE and do the economical thing.
 

Diarygirl

Electoral Member
Oct 28, 2008
551
4
18
Newfoundland
I agree, but my best argument to that is even those who love to live in a garbage filled house would not stick their mouths on the exhaust pipe of a car and inhale?

People need to start to this of all the health issues we have and could prevent from Chemicals we use or discard carelessly.

Regardless of your views on Climate Change or Global Warming.

True enough SirFrancis, unless they are sucidal...we all have to think Green and act on it immediately! Don't wait for spring, do it now!! :)
Global Warming is definately happening, in my opinion, and causing the climate to change due to the chemicals being released into the atmosphere.
Here's a link that can be read: "Climate Change" vs. "Global Warming" (Differences)
 

Francis2004

Subjective Poster
Nov 18, 2008
2,846
34
48
Lower Mainland, BC
mit,
Did you know that Sunrype brings it's juice in from foreign countries in tankers? Cost of groceries is getting so high that soon we will have to start growing our own. The average city lot is so small that only 10 feet (3 metres)exists between new houses. How do we even grow much of a garden with yards like that? I know that many of the houses on the same street I live on don't have more than 15 feet of back yard. It's not that there isn't room. It's that developers are so hungry for the extra houses they can squeeze in that they are forcing us to almost live on top of each other. The dollar goes down, the cost of oil goes down, the cost of gasoline goes up (?)so consumption goes down, and nothing helps the auto industry. Today they showed line-ups of people in Vancouver hoping to get a job - any job. One girl figured she had 600 resumes out and she had received only 2 job interviews which she obviously was not successful in. She said she thought her next stop would be MacDonald's and she wasn't going there to dine.

I know a few companies that make "Green" products and moved stuff back from offshore to North America to be built because they were under corporate pressure to look good and have a smaller Carbon Footprint. No extra costs have been added but more jobs right here in our back yard.

All those who screamed that Carbon Credits would cost more were perhaps correct, but they were incorrect in that those credits would also bring in money as well. Jobs lost result in jobs brought back by pressure.. Sometimes corporate pressure ( self inflicted ) is a good thing and I think we need more of it.
 

Francis2004

Subjective Poster
Nov 18, 2008
2,846
34
48
Lower Mainland, BC
Oh didn't you know? It's not that no one cares, it's that enough people don't care, that will bring the rest down. You can have an electric car but someone else will choose the biggest, dirtiest sort of transportation possible. Those few who don't care and will do exactly the opposite of what is needed, will be more than enough to make up for the best efforts of everyone else.

Some people are just going to block the doorway of a burning theater and watch it all burn down until they themselves are killed along with it.

Of course there are always people who don't want change.. Look at this site and those who refuse to change from the Old Version to the New Version of the Forum..

That said, give them enough incentive to switch and they will..

Do the same to those who pollute the world and you will make a change.

As people still drive alone in car pool lanes and police still hand out tickets you will always have those who fight the system..

But if we can lower the amount from 50% to 10% or even 5% imagine how much cleaner this planet would be..
 

L Gilbert

Winterized
Nov 30, 2006
23,738
107
63
70
50 acres in Kootenays BC
the-brights.net
Expensive to live "organically"? That's funny. We grow most of our own veggies, we have chickens, we hunt wild game, go fishing in the lake out front, grow our own fruit, etc. We recycle, reuse stuff, etc.
On the contrary, if you think about how you live and what you can change, it is actually cheaper to live "organically". If you have an apartment in the middle of a city and only get your stuff from stores, yes "organic" is expensive.
 

Liberalman

Senate Member
Mar 18, 2007
5,623
35
48
Toronto
SirFrancis2004

Are you willing to give me a thousand dollars to upgrade my computer in these economic time where money is scarce?

This is a good call by Canadian Content to keep the old version for a while.
When people have the money to spend on an upgrade then the old version will go.

This is the same for the enviroment.

When you look at it, this whole enviroment mess is the fault of the enviromental businesses because they are charging more for equipment that is cheap to make to keep the air we breath clean.

If you were to take a cost analysis of pollution and anti-pollution equipment the difference would be minimal but since this is a new area the ant-pollution manufacturer feel that they can gouge the customer, until more competition brings in more products to the market place then the price will come down.

When the economy gets better and more money is available then we all can pursue this cleaning of the environment.

In the meantime those who can afford the change should invest in a space suite that can protect you from the environment, now a space suit would cost a couple of hundred dollars to make but I am sure you will be able to spend thousands of dollars to buy it.

Now you can breath easier.
 

VanIsle

Always thinking
Nov 12, 2008
7,046
43
48
mit, we all said long ago - you should run for PM of this country. I don't always agree with what you say, but I always know it is well thought out. I seldom have little I disagree with either.
 

FunGuy

New Member
Feb 15, 2009
2
0
1
What if?:lol:

it's a money making hoax...Al Gore..Maurice Strong.

The problem is people confuse pollution with Climate change or Global warming, whatever term you want to use today. There is also this myth that those of us who don't buy into this AGW nonsense are polluting SUV driving slobs.

What has Obama done ?
Made some green statements during his campaign? People have already given that guy a free ride into the next term.
The guy smokes for pete's sake:lol: he's a polluter:lol:
 

L Gilbert

Winterized
Nov 30, 2006
23,738
107
63
70
50 acres in Kootenays BC
the-brights.net
What if?:lol:

it's a money making hoax...Al Gore..Maurice Strong.

The problem is people confuse pollution with Climate change or Global warming, whatever term you want to use today. There is also this myth that those of us who don't buy into this AGW nonsense are polluting SUV driving slobs.

What has Obama done ?
Made some green statements during his campaign? People have already given that guy a free ride into the next term.
The guy smokes for pete's sake:lol: he's a polluter:lol:
Apparently you missed the point of this thread:

"Ok say man made "Climate Change" was a hoax?

I really don't care if you think it is or not that is not my point and neither will I argue it.. "