Canada no longer leading the G7 in economic growth


Machjo
+1
#61
Quote: Originally Posted by mentalflossView Post

Jobs are true indicator of a strong economy

The true indication of an economy's strength comes down to one factor: jobs.

Since the 2008 recession, the stock markets have recovered, various sectors of the economy have rebounded -automotive, for example -and there has been some growth, although it's not been substantial.

That many businesses have strengthened their market position as the recession has eased is good news; it would be much better if they were re-hiring the employees shed when times were bad, or creating new employment.

The most recent jobless numbers show that's not happening, however.

Statistics Canada says the unemployment rate climbed to 7.6% in January; our economy continues its struggle to produce jobs in numbers large enough to absorb the increase in Canadians looking for work.

Only 2,300 jobs were created in 2012's first month and the nation's unemployment rate increased due to more people looking for work. Economists had expected much more, 25,000 new jobs for the month, partly because of the unseasonably warm temperatures that could have encouraged more hiring in some industries.

But it just didn't happen, and was compounded by 23,700 more Canadians who joined the labour force, accounting for the climb in the unemployment rate.

There was reason for optimism last summer/fall with the jobless number; it hit 7.2% in September, a post-recession low. But now January marks the third month in the last four the unemployment rate has risen.

The job news isn't all bad, however. Canada's economy has produced 129,000 new jobs during the last 12 months, or a 0.7 per cent gain in employment; but that's one of the weakest records in a non-recessionary period in many years. And only 20,000 or so jobs have been added in the last six months

This drop-off in job creation has coincided with generally weaker economic conditions and declining business confidence, due to uncertainty in the global market situation.

Jobs are true indicator of a strong economy
(external - login to view)

If you mean economically productive jobs, then I agree. This does not apply to make-work jobs though.
 
taxslave
#62
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morganView Post

Just saw your post Durka.

My understanding is that the first oil discovery made in Canada was in Ontario.

To be honest, there is a strong case to be made in shipping crude oil (possibly bitumen?) to Eastern Canada. Some of the refining capacity is already in place and there are port facilities to handle the transportation/distribution.

Myself, I would be fully behind driving that p/l prior to shooting it down to Texas, however, because the cost of building/upgrading refineries is so prohibitive, I would assume that there would be few takers in developing the infrastructure and facilities.

As far as the Suncor facility is concerned, I'm not sure how I would feel about supporting a refinery within the borders of a city. I would lean towards there being real potential health concerns associated them.. Proximity to neighbourhoods, schools, etc would be a big negative for me.

Now that is NIMBYism at its finest. OK to burn massive amounts of gas & diesel in the city but not refine it there? Much like not wanting to deal with your own garbage human or otherwise by sending it all out into rural areas. Kind of out of sight out of mind.
 
mentalfloss
#63
Quote: Originally Posted by MachjoView Post

If you mean economically productive jobs, then I agree. This does not apply to make-work jobs though.

True.

Temporary jobs are also not good for the economy.
 
Machjo
#64
Quote: Originally Posted by mentalflossView Post

True.

Temporary jobs are also not good for the economy.

Still better than no job as long as they are economically productive jobs.
 
mentalfloss
#65
Quote: Originally Posted by MachjoView Post

Still better than no job as long as they are economically productive jobs.

For the time that they exist, I guess.
 
Walter
#66
Quote: Originally Posted by mentalflossView Post

Temporary jobs are also not good for the economy.

How foolish. All private sector jobs are good for the economy. Tell students that temp jobs aren't good. Besides, in the long run, all jobs are temporary.
 
mentalfloss
#67
Quote: Originally Posted by WalterView Post

Tell students that temp jobs aren't good. Besides, in the long run, all jobs are temporary.

I meant they aren't as good as permanent jobs. And yes, you live longer than a few years.
 
Machjo
+1
#68
Low wages are a double-edged sword. On the one hand, low wages pay less taxes. On the other hand, they don't cost the government as much as unemployment. That's why I oppose minimum wage; it's still preferable for someone to earn a lower wage in the private sector than the lowest wage on social assistance (strange how social assistance does not live up to minimum-wage legislation, eh). However, raising wages is in the government's interest for various reasons. Co-determination legislation can allow workers to negotiate fairer wages with their employer as long as the employer is doing reasonably well economically.

Providing trades and professional education for the unemployed can also help raise wages. For example, even in the absence of minimum-wage legislation, the government could say that anyone earning less than X dollars per month could apply for job training paid for by the government so as to qualify him for a higher-paying job later in in-demand jobs. Also, since he's still working while waiting for a spot to open up in a government-funded course, that frees up social assistance money that would otherwise have gone to paying him an indecent government income which can then be redirected towards skills training, thus transforming a hand-out to a hand-up.

Also, if we could allow inmates to do economically productive work, that too would free up money which could then go towards providing inmates with skills training and certification for when they are released.

Minimum-wage legislation though does not allow for this kind of flebility since then so many people are on social assistance that there is little money left for job training programmes.

Quote: Originally Posted by WalterView Post

How foolish. All private sector jobs are good for the economy. Tell students that temp jobs aren't good. Besides, in the long run, all jobs are temporary.

Not necessarily. Some private-sector jobs are also make-work jobs caused by legislation such as bilingual labelling, jobs created by trade barriers, etc.

Quote: Originally Posted by mentalflossView Post

I meant they aren't as good as permanent jobs. And yes, you live longer than a few years.

That depends. Some people might want a temporary job for whatever reason.
 
Durry
#69
Bull **** !!
Only if the jobs are not Government Jobs and Jobs that are not funded by Governments !!!
I guess your SOL !!
 
Machjo
#70
Quote: Originally Posted by DurryView Post

Bull **** !!
Only if the jobs are not Government Jobs and Jobs that are not funded by Governments !!!
I guess your SOL !!

What are you referring to?
 
Durry
#71
Quote: Originally Posted by DurryView Post

Bull **** !!
Only if the jobs are not Government Jobs and Jobs that are not funded by Governments !!!
I guess your SOL !!

Got the wrong page!!

Quote: Originally Posted by mentalflossView Post

Jobs are true indicator of a strong economy

The true indication of an economy's strength comes down to one factor: jobs.

Since the 2008 recession, the stock markets have recovered, various sectors of the economy have rebounded -automotive, for example -and there has been some growth, although it's not been substantial.

That many businesses have strengthened their market position as the recession has eased is good news; it would be much better if they were re-hiring the employees shed when times were bad, or creating new employment.

The most recent jobless numbers show that's not happening, however.

Statistics Canada says the unemployment rate climbed to 7.6% in January; our economy continues its struggle to produce jobs in numbers large enough to absorb the increase in Canadians looking for work.

Only 2,300 jobs were created in 2012's first month and the nation's unemployment rate increased due to more people looking for work. Economists had expected much more, 25,000 new jobs for the month, partly because of the unseasonably warm temperatures that could have encouraged more hiring in some industries.

But it just didn't happen, and was compounded by 23,700 more Canadians who joined the labour force, accounting for the climb in the unemployment rate.

There was reason for optimism last summer/fall with the jobless number; it hit 7.2% in September, a post-recession low. But now January marks the third month in the last four the unemployment rate has risen.

The job news isn't all bad, however. Canada's economy has produced 129,000 new jobs during the last 12 months, or a 0.7 per cent gain in employment; but that's one of the weakest records in a non-recessionary period in many years. And only 20,000 or so jobs have been added in the last six months

This drop-off in job creation has coincided with generally weaker economic conditions and declining business confidence, due to uncertainty in the global market situation.

Jobs are true indicator of a strong economy
(external - login to view)

 
mentalfloss
#72



Canadians losing confidence in economy: survey

Global financial uncertainty and slowing job creation made Canadians feel less optimistic about the economy last month, according to a Royal Bank of Canada survey.

Less than a third - 32 percent - of Canadians felt positive about the outlook for the economy over the next year, down from 43 percent in January 2011, and from the 56 percent who were positive two years ago, the poll showed.

The RBC Canadian Consumer Outlook Index released on Thursday revealed only 36 percent of respondents expected their own personal financial situation to improve in the next 12 months, compared with 38 percent in 2011 and 45 percent in 2010.

The online survey was taken Jan. 9 to 16. The Canadian economy added just 2,300 net new jobs in January and the unemployment rate rose to 7.6 percent as global financial uncertainty, including the euro zone debt crisis, weighed on growth.

RBC Chief Economist Craig Wright said in a statement the bank was cautious about the Canadian outlook for 2012 given slowing jobs growth and concerns about the U.S. and European economies.

Another challenge for the Canadian economy has been a spike in household borrowing, triggered by the ultra-low interest rates that followed the recession. Last year, the ratio of debt to disposable income climbed to a record 153 percent and is approaching levels seen in the United States before the financial crisis.

The RBC survey showed that while Canadians have reduced their average personal non-mortgage debt to $11,729 from $13,020 in the last quarter, 57 percent have no savings set aside for an emergency.

However, almost a third of those surveyed said they intended to focus on reducing debt and spending less over the course of the next year.

The survey, launched in November 2009, garnered responses from 4,479 Canadians across the country and has an estimated margin of error of plus or minus 1.65 percentage points, 19 times out of 20.

Canadians losing confidence in economy: survey | Canada | News | Toronto Sun
 
L Gilbert
#73
Economies go up, they go down. It ain't astrophysics, Sherlock.
The whole idea of economies based upon ink on paper is insane anyway.
 
damngrumpy
#74
Canada wa sitting on top of the economic curve when the crisis struck it had nothing to do
with the Tory Government of the day. The curve could well turn out to be a Sunami of
debt that will cause some major concerns for Canadians in the coming months. Remember
this government has piled up more deficit and debt spending than even Brian Mulroney.
and this will not be lost on Canadians in the next few years.
There is two ways to go, cost cutting and reductions like Harper is doing or we can get the
economy moving by providing opportunities for private investment in areas like new and
solid technologies of the future. We have a chance to rebuild our industrial complex in
North America, using new technology and reformulated business models. This could be
somewhat like the Germans after WWII if we did it right.
We need bold ideas and some people with in ingenuity to seize the moment like those who
came before. People like CD Howe for example. Of course Dief the Chief screwed that up
in the fifties.
What we need is not more spending, we need new ideas and the seed money investment
to rebuild out infrastructure in the manufacturing sector and energy sectors. At the moment
we have a calculated little man sitting in Ottawa thinking of the rules of the 1980's to live by
and we are not dealing the twenty first century issues and problems.
That does not look good until the next election and I do believe the Tories have crested in
popularity. They are not moving this country forward, and they staked their legacy on a
financial myth that will bite them. What is it Kennedy once said
"He who rides the back of the tiger, ultimately ends up inside"
 
captain morgan
+1
#75
Quote: Originally Posted by mentalflossView Post

Again, using a strawman fallacy and emotionally charged words to justify your position. .

yawn... that's your standard response, isn't it?


Quote: Originally Posted by mentalflossView Post

I'm merely talking about getting a reasonable number for a corporate tax percentage which allows businesses to maintain a workable profit, but also allows for a sustainable tax revenue to pay for very real things like the deficit, debt, healthcare, etc..

.. And a reasonable # is?

Here's the deal buddy, the private sector will determine that # based on whether or not it makes sense to invest risk capital to start/continue a business.

The chance that experimenters like you want to take is to screw with that # to the point where the private sector starts to retract.... Got any idea relative to what happens when private business' shrink?

Hint: think small business - not just the Bombardier's of Canada.
 
pgs
#76
Quote: Originally Posted by damngrumpyView Post

Canada wa sitting on top of the economic curve when the crisis struck it had nothing to do
with the Tory Government of the day. The curve could well turn out to be a Sunami of
debt that will cause some major concerns for Canadians in the coming months. Remember
this government has piled up more deficit and debt spending than even Brian Mulroney.
and this will not be lost on Canadians in the next few years.
There is two ways to go, cost cutting and reductions like Harper is doing or we can get the
economy moving by providing opportunities for private investment in areas like new and
solid technologies of the future. We have a chance to rebuild our industrial complex in
North America, using new technology and reformulated business models. This could be
somewhat like the Germans after WWII if we did it right.
We need bold ideas and some people with in ingenuity to seize the moment like those who
came before. People like CD Howe for example. Of course Dief the Chief screwed that up
in the fifties.
What we need is not more spending, we need new ideas and the seed money investment
to rebuild out infrastructure in the manufacturing sector and energy sectors. At the moment
we have a calculated little man sitting in Ottawa thinking of the rules of the 1980's to live by
and we are not dealing the twenty first century issues and problems.
That does not look good until the next election and I do believe the Tories have crested in
popularity. They are not moving this country forward, and they staked their legacy on a
financial myth that will bite them. What is it Kennedy once said
"He who rides the back of the tiger, ultimately ends up inside"

You are a fine writer even if you live in a dream world,but could you please tell me what a
Sunami of debt is?
 
Walter
+1
#77
Quote: Originally Posted by pgsView Post

You are a fine writer

Hits the return button far too often and posts are far too long.
 
#juan
#78
Canadian economic growth braking, but still leads G7 countries, IMF says

Posted on Tue, Jan 24, 2012, 5:24 pm (external - login to view) by Julian Beltrame (external - login to view)
Canada’s recovery is being dragged down by a cascading crisis in Europe and weakening conditions elsewhere, the International Monetary Fund suggests in its latest economic outlook.
The Washington-based monitor of global financial affairs said Tuesday that Canada’s economy will likely now grow by only 1.7 per cent, more than half a point below 2011′s 2.3 per cent advance.
The new forecast is three notches lower than the Bank of Canada’s estimate just last week — and two-tenths of a point lower than its own previous call in September.
And the IMF doesn’t see the economy in Canada strengthening much in 2013. Unlike the central bank, which predicts 2.8 per cent expansion next year, it says Canada’s recovery will be restrained to two per cent.
 
JLM
#79
Quote: Originally Posted by pgsView Post

You are a fine writer even if you live in a dream world,but could you please tell me what a
Sunami of debt is?

My guess would be a "tsunami of debt", which means a sh*tload of debt or more simply deep in debt!
 
Cliffy
#80
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

My guess would be a "tsunami of debt", which means a sh*tload of debt or more simply deep in debt!

..or deep in doggy doo doo.
 
pgs
#81
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

My guess would be a "tsunami of debt", which means a sh*tload of debt or more simply deep in debt!

That would be my quess as well,however for one with such an eloquent grasp of the english language I am surprised.
Especially as tsunami's have been in the news so much recently.
It must have been faux news.
 
Tonington
#82
Quote: Originally Posted by pgsView Post

That would be my quess as well,however for one with such an eloquent grasp of the english language I am surprised.
Especially as tsunami's have been in the news so much recently.
It must have been faux news.

Really, quibbling about spelling?

Personally I would have went with something like this:
Worthwhile Canadian Initiative: The federal deficit is shrinking (external - login to view)
 
L Gilbert
#83
Quote: Originally Posted by ToningtonView Post

Really, quibbling about spelling?

Personally I would have went with something like this:
Worthwhile Canadian Initiative: The federal deficit is shrinking (external - login to view)

I wonder if those idiots in Ottawa (et al) would realize more consciously the reality if they had to write/type out all the 0s after the $ and the significant digits instead of just adding suffixes like "million", "billion", and "trillion". I mean $25.8 billion does not nearly look as impressive as $25,800,000,000.
 
coldstream
#84
The figures for GDP have been rigged for a long time, as have statistics for real unemployment. Essentially the GDP is inundated with completely gratuitous economic activity associated with passing around script representing ownership or claims on ownership, and not real industrial activity. There are two economies now.. a parallel or shadow economy of banking, trade and investment.. and a real productive economy. Canada's real productive economy has been in decline for decades.. so don't trust the glowing figures of growth the government puts out. Only a small group of financiers and their henchmen are profiting from it. It acts as a parasite on the real economy, sucking its lifeblood.. the rest of us divvying up the crumbs they leave over.
 
L Gilbert
#85
So what are the "real" figures, Einstein?
 
JLM
#86
Quote: Originally Posted by L GilbertView Post

I wonder if those idiots in Ottawa (et al) would realize more consciously the reality if they had to write/type out all the 0s after the $ and the significant digits instead of just adding suffixes like "million", "billion", and "trillion". I mean $25.8 billion does not nearly look as impressive as $25,800,000,000.

What do ya mean? Thats just 258 followed by a whole bunch of nuthin'

Quote: Originally Posted by L GilbertView Post

So what are the "real" figures, Einstein?

Don't hold your breath!
 
mentalfloss
#87
Conservative spending cuts could tip Canada into recession

OTTAWA — The Conservative government could tip Canada into a recession if it reduces federal spending by up to $8 billion, says an analysis by the union representing government economists and social scientists.

Claude Poirier, president of the Canadian Association of Professional Employees, said that if the Conservatives press ahead with spending reductions of $8 billion by 2014-15, Canada’s gross domestic product will fall by more than $10 billion and draw an embattled economy into a recession.

“Either the government isn’t aware of the impact its expenditure reduction program will have and is prepared to risk plunging the country into recession, or the government has not gauged this impact properly and is tinkering with the Canadian economy to satisfy an ideological imperative,” said Poirier.

The results of the spending and operational spending review that will be announced in the upcoming budget have been kept under wraps under the guise of cabinet secrecy. With few details about the cuts, unions and other organizations have been struggling to estimate the job losses and their ripple effect on the Canadian economy.

Parliamentary Budget Officer Kevin Page said the government has released so few details about the upcoming cuts that it is difficult to come up with much more than rough guess.

“It is unclear to me on how one can do a reasonable job estimating economic and fiscal impacts and public service employment impacts of the government’s austerity package when we have no details,” he said.

CAPE launched its study months ago to get a handle on the economic impact of the government’s spending cuts. It was conducted by economists using data from Statistics Canada, as well as data generated by an economic model used by federal departments and agencies.

The study concluded that any spending reduction will have an immediate impact on Canada’s economic growth and will be felt more strongly in some regions more than in others.

The study also examined the impact of $8-billion reduced spending on GDP by industry. The hardest hit sector is the finance, insurance, real estate, rental and leasing sector, which will lose about $1.2 billion. The retail sector in Ontario could lose more than $161 million, while B.C.’s financial industry could lose $133 million. In manufacturing, Ontario could lose $182 million, with losses of $131 million in Quebec.

Poirier blames the deficit on bad fiscal decision-making. He said the government is pitching the cuts as necessary to eliminate the deficit while glossing over the tax cuts that deprived the government of billions in revenues. Reducing the GST to five per cent cost $13.4 billion in foregone revenue, along with $1.5 billion in reduced corporate taxes.

Those decisions shifted the “burden of fighting the deficit” to Canadian taxpayers who will now be forced to live with fewer services, he said.

Conservative spending cuts could tip Canada into recession (external - login to view)


 
petros
#88
Ooooo scary.....and if that spending is off loaded to the Provinces?
 
Machjo
#89
Quote: Originally Posted by mentalflossView Post

Conservative spending cuts could tip Canada into recession

OTTAWA — The Conservative government could tip Canada into a recession if it reduces federal spending by up to $8 billion, says an analysis by the union representing government economists and social scientists.

Claude Poirier, president of the Canadian Association of Professional Employees, said that if the Conservatives press ahead with spending reductions of $8 billion by 2014-15, Canada’s gross domestic product will fall by more than $10 billion and draw an embattled economy into a recession.

“Either the government isn’t aware of the impact its expenditure reduction program will have and is prepared to risk plunging the country into recession, or the government has not gauged this impact properly and is tinkering with the Canadian economy to satisfy an ideological imperative,” said Poirier.

The results of the spending and operational spending review that will be announced in the upcoming budget have been kept under wraps under the guise of cabinet secrecy. With few details about the cuts, unions and other organizations have been struggling to estimate the job losses and their ripple effect on the Canadian economy.

Parliamentary Budget Officer Kevin Page said the government has released so few details about the upcoming cuts that it is difficult to come up with much more than rough guess.

“It is unclear to me on how one can do a reasonable job estimating economic and fiscal impacts and public service employment impacts of the government’s austerity package when we have no details,” he said.

CAPE launched its study months ago to get a handle on the economic impact of the government’s spending cuts. It was conducted by economists using data from Statistics Canada, as well as data generated by an economic model used by federal departments and agencies.

The study concluded that any spending reduction will have an immediate impact on Canada’s economic growth and will be felt more strongly in some regions more than in others.

The study also examined the impact of $8-billion reduced spending on GDP by industry. The hardest hit sector is the finance, insurance, real estate, rental and leasing sector, which will lose about $1.2 billion. The retail sector in Ontario could lose more than $161 million, while B.C.’s financial industry could lose $133 million. In manufacturing, Ontario could lose $182 million, with losses of $131 million in Quebec.

Poirier blames the deficit on bad fiscal decision-making. He said the government is pitching the cuts as necessary to eliminate the deficit while glossing over the tax cuts that deprived the government of billions in revenues. Reducing the GST to five per cent cost $13.4 billion in foregone revenue, along with $1.5 billion in reduced corporate taxes.

Those decisions shifted the “burden of fighting the deficit” to Canadian taxpayers who will now be forced to live with fewer services, he said.

Conservative spending cuts could tip Canada into recession (external - login to view)

The Liberal spending cuts led to a recession too, and I still supported them. Are you suggesting that unsustainable growth is preferable to sustainability?

Now I will agree at least in principle that tax reductions were not too bright an idea either, and for that the Conservatives are to blame. That does not change the fact that we need to reduce spending nonetheless.
 
mentalfloss
#90
Quote: Originally Posted by MachjoView Post

The Liberal spending cuts led to a recession too, and I still supported them. Are you suggesting that unsustainable growth is preferable to sustainability?

How is cutting into a recession a sustainable way of managing the economy?
 

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