Is Boadicea buried at a McDonald's?


Blackleaf
#1
Is the red-headed British warrior queen, the leader of the Iceni tribe who fought against the Roman Empire, buried next to a McDonald's in Birmingham?

Bo buried at McDonald's?



By ANDREW PARKER



EXCITED archaeologists may have found the grave of legendary warrior queen Boadicea — beside a McDonald’s burger bar.

If their hopes are realised, the discovery will end a mystery stretching back 1,945 years.

Test digs have unearthed ancient artefacts suggesting the chariot-riding tribal monarch pegged it in the Birmingham suburb of Kings Norton, right by the local fast food joint.

Her 200,000-strong army was wiped out after making a last stand against Roman occupiers in 61AD.

And rather than be captured Boadicea killed herself near the battlefield by sipping poison.

Her struggle was memorably recorded in The Sun’s brilliant book Hold Ye Front Page, which reported on great historical events in our own unique style.

Birmingham’s planners have suspended plans to build houses and flats beside the restaurant so the archaeologists can carry out a full excavation of the site.

And local wags reckon that if the link with the battle against the Romans is proved, the burger bar will start serving Big Macs-imus.

Historians have always believed Boadicea’s rebellion ended somewhere near Birmingham.

They are sure the battle took place in the Midlands as Roman legionnaires marching from Anglesey, North Wales were confronted by English tribes heading up from London. The undulating and wooded topography of the area by the McDonald’s, known as Parsons Hill, matches descriptions given by Roman Empire chroniclers.

And test trenches dug in the soil have yielded Roman artefacts including ancient pots.

Local councillor Peter Douglas Osborn, an archaeologist and keen conservationist, said: "It’s thrilling to think we may unearth something so intriguing right here in Birmingham."

"Nobody knows exactly where the last battle took place but we know it is somewhere in the West Midlands. It would be priceless if Boadicea’s last stand was next door to a McDonald’s but this site does fit the only descriptions we know of.

It is on the route to Metchley, the Roman fort discovered in Birmingham.

If only because of this, it represents a real possibility. However, it is even more encouraging when you consider the evidence and well-preserved artefacts unearthed from trial trenches.

The location matches historical descriptions of the battle site in that it is hilly and surrounded by trees. I also hope the dig may unearth evidence of what name the Romans gave Birmingham."

A McDonald’s spokeswoman said: “We’ll be thrilled if it turns out Boadicea’s last stand was next to one of our restaurants.”

The big dig could take months or even years. Dr Mike Hodder, Birmingham City Council’s senior archaeologist, said: “There’s no doubt it’s an important site and may be the location of the Boadicea battle.

“We know that pots discovered mean Romans were probably there and we know her last battle was fought on a hilly site and was somewhere nearby.

“Everyone is very positive about the find.”

Boadicea was married to King Prasutagus, who ruled over the Iceni — the Celtic tribe occupying East Anglia in what is now Eastern England under the authority of the Romans.

Emperor Nero, who ruled with an iron fist between 54AD and 68, provoked her by forcing her people to endure conscription and pay heavy taxes.

But the final straw came when Prasutagus died in 60AD.

The Romans plundered Boadicea’s chief tribesmen and brutally annexed her dominions.

She vowed to take on Nero and his legions.

And other tribes from all over South East England came to her side ready to die in the fight for freedom.
-----------------------------------------------------

She relished a battle


BOADICEA led an epic bid to make the Romans "burger off" before her death.

She revolted after Emperor Nero seized her Iceni tribe’s territory in East Anglia following the death of her husband, the clan’s king.

Boadicea, or Boudicca as she is often known, was tortured and beaten.

Her two daughters were raped and other members of the Iceni nobility were enslaved.

The warrior queen and her subjects responded by attacking the Roman colony of Camulodunum, now Colchester, where many inhabitants were former legionnaires and their families.

When Nero sent one of his top legions to crush the revolt, Boadicea’s forces wiped them out.

Her army, by then numbering more than 100,000, then launched bloody onslaughts on the towns of Londinium (London) and Verulamium (St Albans).

Many imperial officials fled and Boadicea was on the point of winning independence for the Britons.

But Roman governor Paulinus Suetonius gathered 10,000 well-trained legionnaires and marched to meet the queen.

He chose his battleground carefully — on a hill between two woods, where his men could not be surrounded.


thesun.co.uk
 
Finder
#2
The real celtic warrior princess of sorts. A true Celtic and British hero.
 
Daz_Hockey
#3
I'm sure her tribe were'nt spelt Iceni though
 
Finder
#4
Daz to be honest I've not read much about her in the last 8 years or so. Besides a few of my studies on the Romans in Britian. However, even then since I knew about her I usually skimmed the longer passages so I will admit I can not remember her tribe, only that she was Celtic (no brainer) in orgins. As pre-Roman and pre-Saxon invasions pretty much all of the two Islands were Celtic.

But I know she is largely seen as a british celtic hero. At least I hope you guys still see her as such.
 
Daz_Hockey
#5
of course, to me, she was a hero, a strong female warrior who stood up to the biggest empire in human history, she was British, actually, I might go as far as to call her English although an original Briton would probably be a better word.

Why would anyone from England have anything against her? she's probably our biggest hero concerning standing up against insermountable odds for what she concidered hers.
 
Finder
#6
Daz you really get a little confused in history. This time period there was no such thing as "english" and this was way before the Saxon invasion of Briton and the Britons as an acient society were indeed celtic.
here this might help you

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boudicca


Quote:

Boudica (also Boudicca, Boadicea, Buduica, Bonduca) (d. 60/61) was a queen of the Brythonic Celtic Iceni people of Norfolk in Eastern Britain who led a major uprising of the tribes against the occupying forces of the Roman Empire. Upon the death of her husband Prasutagus (circa 60), the Romans annexed his kingdom and brutally humiliated Boudica and her daughters, spurring her leadership of the revolt.

 
Daz_Hockey
#7
of course she's not "english"...I know my history...I'm just saying she's was basically from near Norwich...which is in suffolk...which is now England...of course she was a Briton, born, lived and died in what is moden day England...why confuse the matter Finder?
 
Finder
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by Daz_Hockey

of course, to me, she was a hero, a strong female warrior who stood up to the biggest empire in human history, she was British, actually, I might go as far as to call her English although an original Briton would probably be a better word.

Why would anyone from England have anything against her? she's probably our biggest hero concerning standing up against insermountable odds for what she concidered hers.


um, you call her "english" when I said she was celtic... I'm not confusing the matter, she was of an Celtic British tribe yes, and I think she should be honoured by modern day Anglo-Saxons as apart of their history as well but celts as from the UK and Ireland I think also have a right to see her as a Celtic hero for pretty much the same reasons as the Anglo-Saxons do. I do not think figurers such as Boadica should divide us.
 
Daz_Hockey
#9
yeah ur right...sorry I was confusing it slightly....yeah she is a hero around these parts....I dont see how the irish can see her as a hero though...she's not the same as them, racially totally different....she's a "British" heroine.....not irish, the romans never got as far as Ireland...they have nothing to be proud about there, the two islands were one big happy family then you know
 
Daz_Hockey
#10
they *wernt rather
 
Daz_Hockey
#11
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boadicea

good ol' wikipedia will clear this matter up.

personlly the irish claiming her, for me, it's like the native Americans who hijacked Alcatraz in the 60's trying to get the govenment to buy it off them, when in fact they were completly differing tribes who never met and couldnt claim anything from the land sale of manhatten...basically, ok they were the same racially, but in a tribal sense they were worlds apart, thats all I mean...that was relevent honest
 
Finder
#12
Well the Irish and most Celtic people as the celts once spread across almost all of Europe at one time or another usually see any great celtic leader as a, well a great celtic leader, be it a Briton Celt, Irish Celt, or even way back when a northern Italian celt. Though I'd say with Boadica closer to home she is thus seen as being a celt which is easyier to identify with.

I've personally always admired what she had done, and I see her as a Celtic Briton nothing more or less, apart of the Celtic and British history really and I have no problem with that either.

I don't know enough about her tribe to know if they were wiped out by the Romans, Romanized, pushed back by the Saxons or slaughtered by the Saxons. This is why really the ancient Britons have little in common with the current day "english" or Anglo-saxons as the Saxons (and Romans to some extent) helped push back many of the celtic tribes and destory them as well.

I don't know if you'd agree with this but from the Brits I know... including my father to some extent, they identify more with the Celtic Britons and the Romans then they do with the saxon civ. Thats my take anyhow.
 
Cosmo
#13
One other little "tidbit" about Queen Boadicea ... the word "dyke" (referring to lesbians) is derived from her name. Although it was considered an insult for years, the actual origin of the word is not denigrating at all. A strong, fearless woman warrior. Us dykes have been reclaiming the word and it's no longer an insult in many corners.
 
Daz_Hockey
#14
I wouldnt shout that one out about town cosmo...people will start offering you pipe tobacco, asking if you want ur hair shaved and encourage you to go vegan.

But then your dad wouldnt be Anglo/Saxon then would he Finder, I dont know the man (obviously) but there's no-one in this country who honestly can claim a total celtic or total Anglo heritege, were all mixed, as no doubt are probably the ancestors of the Iceni's.

My greatest hero, the late, great, Ted Bates is from about the same place in Norfolk as the Iceni......so really, as I've said before, of course England should be proud of her...I think she's listed as one of the "100 greatest britons"...but she aint irish, thats beyound reproach
 
Finder
#15
My father claims to have some Irish in him, but he was raised in Britian, my mothers side is Irish but I am 2 gens removed from Ireland and only 1 Gen removed from the England. But yeah he is Anglo-Saxon, most of my family on my mothers and even on parts of my father are Celts. So yeah we are all messed up when it comes to the Islands I guess. So yeah my father is a limmy and I have a little limmy in me, but I'm also Celt and my heart goes to my celtic roots.
 
Finder
#16
Though I can't help to think and wish we could have seen those battles between the Celtic Bretons and the Roman Legions. Those must have been great battles. The problem was the celts though orginally very successful against the romans, only 400 years before sacking Rome herself and taking much of Italy never really changed the way they went to war, and never truly developed a nation. Though at times they came close to forming a nation this never truly happend until the formation of the Irish Republic.

Edit: oh and when I say nation I do not totally mean the modern nation state but one at least of confederation of simuler tribes and cultures. Such ancient nations being the Byzintine empire (Roman-Greek), Macedonia-Greek Empire, Roman Republic and Empire, union of upper and lower Eygpt and so on and so forth. The Celts problem was there divion among tribes which often faught among themselves if they were not fighting the Romans. But as I said there were times when this changed but often history bit and the bite was deep and it never happend.
 
Daz_Hockey
#17
wernt the french celtic as well?....i.e. the Gauls, Gaul was a country long before the ROI I'm afraid.....it's all academic now though...simply because, however romantic this idea might be the whole celt/germanic tribal warfare has been going on donkey's years....and so the Germanic countries were the first in europe after the romans to create a successful couple of countries...does that make em in anyway wrong?, does it make em in anyway "Bad"? no.

I just dont go along with this romantic view of the celts I'm afraid, for a warrior race they didnt do too well did they?, I summise by that they either lacked leadership or wernt as strong as their reputation suggests.

I think to compare it to the new world would probably be like comparing the land taken by the Lakota against the Soux, neither of them were wrong, or romantically right.

it was and still is in a sense, tribal conflict, nothing romantic or inherrently "right" or "wrong" about either, neither one was "peace-loving"
 
Finder
#18
Nope the French are are a mix of Franks, celts and some german tribes mostly... and throw in some Italian/Roman latin into the mix
 
Finder
#19
2000 years ago the largest ethnic group in Europe were the celts... from Ireland to Turcky. But as the Romans grew and the Barbarians invaded from out side of Europe and Northern Europe the celts were either destoryed or absorbed. Also romanization of many celtic tribes was a main factor which shouldn't be over looked.
 
Blackleaf
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by Finder

Daz to be honest I've not read much about her in the last 8 years or so. Besides a few of my studies on the Romans in Britian. However, even then since I knew about her I usually skimmed the longer passages so I will admit I can not remember her tribe, only that she was Celtic (no brainer) in orgins. As pre-Roman and pre-Saxon invasions pretty much all of the two Islands were Celtic.

But I know she is largely seen as a british celtic hero. At least I hope you guys still see her as such.

She's got a statue in London, in Parliament Square -

 
Daz_Hockey
#21
oh yeah!!!............I forgot about that!!...nope, she's not Irish, I would be surprised if she even knew what ireland was!.
 
Blackleaf
#22
She lived in what is now England - so we can consider her to be English, even though there was no England as we know it in those days.

And just because she was Celtic rather than Germanic or Anglo-Saxon doesn't mean we can't claim her as England's.
 
Daz_Hockey
#23
my point entirely blackleaf, my point exactly....I fear a lot of people think to be "English" you have to be a bad guy...sorry too much hollywood movies I'm afraid

I'll call her English....never Irish, she stood up to the italian/roman invaders, not the english, so how can she EVER be used to promote ireland?
 
Finder
#24
two things.

I never said she was Irish, I indeed said she was Breton and celtic, and that is why I believe the Celts and the British think of her well.

Also I don't believe the "English" are evil. But to call her english is... well... I'm sorry to say somewhat wrong since she would of spoken a dielec of gaelic and well english didn't really exsist back then. The Saxon tongue at this time wasn't even known and by the time we know how they sounded about 300-400 years after Boadica the Saxon tongue still would not be considered anything close to english.

But if you guys want to both somehow believe Bodica was "English" and was not celtic (as is widely known and is a except fact by British historians) go ahead. Who am I to stop you. Well we are changing history why don't we just say these people also spoke english and were anglo-saxons before they were even in western europe and way before english was ever spoken too!
 
Finder
#25
Blackleaf if you read what I said before I said there is no reason why Celtic and Anglo-saxon people can not share her.
 
Finder
#26
Just because I want to post more then one source.

http://www.answers.com/topic/iceni

Slightly different topic. The Celtic Iceni peoples which were Boadicea's clan/tribe. Dax and Blackleaf, though I totally rspect her as a celtic and british hero and would not say she is not one but the other, I still assert she is a celtic hero, to all celtic peoples and ango-saxon British peoples who now live in the area Boadicea and her peoples once lived in. Some Celts may find this laughable because the Saxons from which the British Anglo-saxons come from wiped out many Celtic tribes in the area and pushed them westwards. But I think this is being to mythical with your nationalism. But to assert that celtic peoples should not see her as a celtic hero is absurd.

If you wish to see her as "English" why don't you do even more revision to history and even though christianity was not in this area yet, make her Christian too. Better yet since you guys are anti-catholic why don't you make her church of england too.


Anyhow I'm happy to know most British people are either happy enough in ignorance of her roots just to see her as a hero of the Ancient British People and the Celtic peoples of Ireland (I don't know if Scotland and wales think of her as a hero so I won't lump them in) see her as such as well.
 
Blackleaf
#27
She wasn't English - but even though she was Celtic she also wasn't Welsh or Scottish.

But the English have more of a claim to her than the Celtic nations do because she lived in what is now Essex in England.
 
Finder
#28
Man you love to argue that someone has more rights then others Blackleaf and won't ever take the idea that something can be shared?

As I said many times she did live in those areas. I do not think you could coin her tribe onto any of the existing celtic ethnicities. If they ever did it would be an amazing feat, which I would not put past British archaeologist.
 
Daz_Hockey
#29
I thought she came from norfolk blackleaf?.......also, the celtic britons who lived in England....they didnt all go to wales you know?...the only thing that happened to most of them is that they interbred with the invading saxons...which is where the modern english come in, besides, if she did stay celtic...she'd be welsh...which I recall finder dismissing as celtic before anyway.

my families never really moved much from the south of england and certainly half of them were either here before the saxons or with them...so Crazy horse isnt an american hero?.....
 
Finder
#30
Daz_Hockey, well actually modern english doesn't come from interbreding between the Saxons and the celts. Modern English is a mix of Norman and Saxon tongues.

The Celts are thought to have generally been pushed back by the invading Saxons. Though of course this is ancient history and I am sure there was some intermarrying. Just like how they believe the Romanized Celts/Bretons didn't leave either. They even think some Romans may have actually stayed as well after the withdraw of the Roman Empire from the Isles.

If you ever get a chance to listen to Gaelic, at least a proper speaking of Gaelic it sounds nothing like a Germanic tongue, nor a Romantic tongue at all. At best it sounds like gibberish if you ask me.

But modern day English does have some celtic words in it but I'd say it is more influced by the saxon tongue which is germanic and the French/Norman tongue which is romantic.


EDIT: Knowing how much Blackleaf hates the french I wonder if he will admit the Norman/French influance on the english language. This will be interesting to read.
 

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