Cut Israel Off
- Thread starter JBeee
- Start date
Plastinian Massacre
The Arab peace proposal (2002) was met by Isreal with openness, but on the unreasonable term that the Palestinians be consulted. This Israel-Palestinian chit chat was difficult while the Palestinians were murdering Israeli citizens. But Hexbolla then decided the timing was good for an Israeli civilian massacre!
While in English language media, the Palastinoian Authority condemned the attack saying "The leadership strongly denounces Netanya operation against Israeli civilians and decides to prosecute those involved or responsible," in Arabic it glorified it.
This was misinterpreted by the Israelis as entirely unfriendly. They stopped to think. The Isaelis remembered how they got the land and why they kept the land, as they buried their dead. And they thought about the safety of their own people. And they said, "Naw."
I have no rational choice but to agree. Five years have passed. More Israelis have been killed. The Palistinian Authority is criminally insane. The U.S may fail to force upon Iraqis their freedom, but the Israelis are a sucess largely on their own account. When was the last time an Israeli blew up Americans? Why did Bush not offer land for peace to Al Qaida when the World Trade Centre was hit?
The Arab peace proposal (2002) was met by Isreal with openness, but on the unreasonable term that the Palestinians be consulted. This Israel-Palestinian chit chat was difficult while the Palestinians were murdering Israeli citizens. But Hexbolla then decided the timing was good for an Israeli civilian massacre!
While in English language media, the Palastinoian Authority condemned the attack saying "The leadership strongly denounces Netanya operation against Israeli civilians and decides to prosecute those involved or responsible," in Arabic it glorified it.
This was misinterpreted by the Israelis as entirely unfriendly. They stopped to think. The Isaelis remembered how they got the land and why they kept the land, as they buried their dead. And they thought about the safety of their own people. And they said, "Naw."
I have no rational choice but to agree. Five years have passed. More Israelis have been killed. The Palistinian Authority is criminally insane. The U.S may fail to force upon Iraqis their freedom, but the Israelis are a sucess largely on their own account. When was the last time an Israeli blew up Americans? Why did Bush not offer land for peace to Al Qaida when the World Trade Centre was hit?
``The Zionist State of Israel has been an evil manevolent force which has brought misery to millions of people. Yet our news spins this state as some sort of innocent victim.``
Precisely why Einstein said ''Zionism = Fascism''.
{op cit}
Precisely why Einstein said ''Zionism = Fascism''.
{op cit}
Fixing Nations
Zzarchov, "There are far easier to fix hotspots in the world, which are far worse and could be fixed with a fraction of the resources dedicated to fixing Israel and Palestines problems for them."
Given that a super-fractional portion of resources is admitted to have been devoted to a fractional problem and come to little or nothing, how then can we suppose that anything can ever be fixed? Our resources seem ineffectual.
The rank hatred of the Jews is preserved in part by the notion that the Israelis are vulnerable, outnumbered, and can be wiped out sooner or later. Anti-semetic and anti-American maleducation breeds a new generation of Arab belligerents while talk of peace goes on, and on and on, amidst the murder.
Like a billion monkeys on a billion typewriters we may eventually write peace in the Middle East, but it will be in large part by luck.
Zzarchov, "There are far easier to fix hotspots in the world, which are far worse and could be fixed with a fraction of the resources dedicated to fixing Israel and Palestines problems for them."
Given that a super-fractional portion of resources is admitted to have been devoted to a fractional problem and come to little or nothing, how then can we suppose that anything can ever be fixed? Our resources seem ineffectual.
The rank hatred of the Jews is preserved in part by the notion that the Israelis are vulnerable, outnumbered, and can be wiped out sooner or later. Anti-semetic and anti-American maleducation breeds a new generation of Arab belligerents while talk of peace goes on, and on and on, amidst the murder.
Like a billion monkeys on a billion typewriters we may eventually write peace in the Middle East, but it will be in large part by luck.
First off, you lose the back-or-white, left or right, innie versus outie thought patterns and stop dismissing people who don't think the same thoughts as you. Try listening because that "stupid" idea just might be the most workable one. You can't make an attempt to fix a world situation when you're blinded by labels at home. We're a lot more alike than we're comfortable in acknowledging and there are tinfoil hats on both extremes. When the extremists drive the bus, it falls off the cliff and then the cliff is at fault.
Woof!
The Middle Bastards
Woofie, "First off, you lose the back-or-white, left or right, innie versus outie thought patterns and stop dismissing people who don't think the same thoughts as you."
Isn't that so, but in this forum the left tin hats are dominant just as surely as the inner whities out the number outer blackies. The anti-American, anti-semite, anti-war, anti-capitalist, anti-god, anti-everything crowd promotes a pefectly clear proposal - absolutely nothing.
That said, and in a kind way, the labels left and right are virtually meaningless except as a steriotype label for the worst of each, the worst of the left as shown above, and the worst of the right being Josef Stalin, whose communist party was labeled right wing by the media after the fall of the Berlin wall.
Woofie, "First off, you lose the back-or-white, left or right, innie versus outie thought patterns and stop dismissing people who don't think the same thoughts as you."
Isn't that so, but in this forum the left tin hats are dominant just as surely as the inner whities out the number outer blackies. The anti-American, anti-semite, anti-war, anti-capitalist, anti-god, anti-everything crowd promotes a pefectly clear proposal - absolutely nothing.
That said, and in a kind way, the labels left and right are virtually meaningless except as a steriotype label for the worst of each, the worst of the left as shown above, and the worst of the right being Josef Stalin, whose communist party was labeled right wing by the media after the fall of the Berlin wall.
Stalin a right winger?
Well, considering how the Republican party was his biggest supporter, I am not too surprised that someone views him that way.
;-);-);-)
Well, considering how the Republican party was his biggest supporter, I am not too surprised that someone views him that way.
;-);-);-)
The media, taking their lead from who knows where, took the liberty of using a meaning of left and right based on who is the entrenched conservative establishment used to calling the shots, and who is on the outside, dissenting.
The commies were thus characterized as 'right' and the democracy/capitalist movement as 'left'.
Hitler used leftist propaganda to promote the National Socialist Workers Party, but he was no commie. Stalin used socialist propaganda to excuse a centralized capitalist system where he had control of the entire Soviet Empire, but he was a commie.
Go figure are real commies left or right and when? Does this oversimplified paradym not fail to tar prime examples as we would like to tar them?
The commies were thus characterized as 'right' and the democracy/capitalist movement as 'left'.
Hitler used leftist propaganda to promote the National Socialist Workers Party, but he was no commie. Stalin used socialist propaganda to excuse a centralized capitalist system where he had control of the entire Soviet Empire, but he was a commie.
Go figure are real commies left or right and when? Does this oversimplified paradym not fail to tar prime examples as we would like to tar them?
Hitler? Left? His brownshirts were patterned on Ford's "service department" and his anti-Jewish policies (including a large segment of Mein Kampf) were pure Henry Ford.
http://www.reformation.org/henry-ford.html
Woof!
The brownshirts also were lured into the party with Communist ideology (as a motivation not an organizational style).
Thats why when Hitler gained more stable powerbase he had them killed off in the night of long knives, and the Brownshirts never regained standing or influence (their leaders all killed) and the Blackshirts took over.
Thats why when Hitler gained more stable powerbase he had them killed off in the night of long knives, and the Brownshirts never regained standing or influence (their leaders all killed) and the Blackshirts took over.
Sure anti-Semitism exists. But not all who oppose what Israel does or the continued suffering of millions of Israel's victims are anti-Semitic.
I oppose torture, ethnic cleansing and collective punishment. The non-citizens we call Palestinians suffer all these things.
Israel has continued to deny the people they displaced to create a pure "Jewish" state their fundamental human rights, freedom and justice for more than 60 years.
Many of these people without rights have been displaced by Israel multiple times. Millions of them live in abject poverty under seige-like conditions.
One reason I criticize Israel is for the benefit of Israelis. The current path leads to Israel's destruction. One state I can think of that did what Israel does came to a very bad end in 1944.
Consider that after Israel has succeeded in enclosing millions of non-citizens behind walls with armed guards and kill zones, the state will turn its attention to the "Arab Israeli Problem". Inevitably Israel will transfer this demographic threat to Israel's Jewishness to the surrounding concentration camps, finally completing 60 years of ethnic cleansing and achieving an ethnically pure state.
1.2 billion angry Arabs and Muslims nearby will increasingly fund and arm those willing to fight this hostile state imposed on them by the UN in 1946. Israel cannot stop a growing tsunami of militants armed with modern man-portable munitions which can knock down walls, take out tanks and shoot down low flying aircraft... Cheap fire and forget munitions requiring a few minutes instruction can take out military systems worth millions manned by highly trained military personnel. Portable rockets will continue to improve to the point where every Israeli city will be within range...
Here is a snapshot of Israel by Amnesty International:
http://thereport.amnesty.org/eng/Re...th-Africa/Israel-and-the-Occupied-Territories
But the worst thing one fighting an industrial nation (especially when intent on ethnic cleansing and genocide) can do is start to win.
Israel spends a million dollar on a weapon system because its trying to limit collateral damage. If It spent money fighting the same kind of total war, millions could die every moment to carpet bombing, gas, plague and atomic weaponry.
The worst thing one can do versus a modern nation is start to win in a way that leaves no hope but desperation.
Israel spends a million dollar on a weapon system because its trying to limit collateral damage. If It spent money fighting the same kind of total war, millions could die every moment to carpet bombing, gas, plague and atomic weaponry.
The worst thing one can do versus a modern nation is start to win in a way that leaves no hope but desperation.
Hi, Mikey, :smile:
you said on the first page the following:
Check out this link: http://www.wakeupfromyourslumber.com/node/249
I think they are also spending it on "Creative Destruction"!
you said on the first page the following:
I think they are spending it on pipe lines!
Check out this link: http://www.wakeupfromyourslumber.com/node/249
I think they are also spending it on "Creative Destruction"!
Aaah, Mr. Zzarchov....
are you perhaps suggesting they, the Israelites, grow energy in their backyards?
Oops, that could have a double meaning, couldn't it??? Could Iraq be considered "backyard"?
Let's see, what we shall find!
Did you know that by law the US guarantees Israel's oil supply - no matter what?
This Memorandum of Understanding is quietly renewed every five years. It commits U.S. taxpayers to maintain a strategic U.S. reserve for Israel, equivalent to $3 billion in 2002 dollars.
Outch! There are those poor taxpayers ... again!!!
Well, I heard they got excempted now, because "someone" laid a pipe from Iraq's oil terminal directly over to Israel's backyard.
Sooo, it is only right that they should give some of it to the remaining Palestinians in exchange for more and more land!;-) Don't you think, Zzarkov?
http://www.wakeupfromyourslumber.com/node/4504
are you perhaps suggesting they, the Israelites, grow energy in their backyards?
Oops, that could have a double meaning, couldn't it??? Could Iraq be considered "backyard"?
Let's see, what we shall find!
Did you know that by law the US guarantees Israel's oil supply - no matter what?
This Memorandum of Understanding is quietly renewed every five years. It commits U.S. taxpayers to maintain a strategic U.S. reserve for Israel, equivalent to $3 billion in 2002 dollars.
Outch! There are those poor taxpayers ... again!!!
Well, I heard they got excempted now, because "someone" laid a pipe from Iraq's oil terminal directly over to Israel's backyard.
Sooo, it is only right that they should give some of it to the remaining Palestinians in exchange for more and more land!;-) Don't you think, Zzarkov?
http://www.wakeupfromyourslumber.com/node/4504
Something that I've noticed in these Middle East threads:
Nobody ever changes their minds about anything!
It's like the arguments from the other side only exist for the purpose of being torn apart - a deeply dishonest position to take.
I'll eat huge slices of humble pie if someone can quote a post where somebody admitted to changing their mind on something substantive because of facts presented in any of these threads.
I thought I could learn something about the Middle East by reading these threads, but instead all I've seen is entrenchment.
Is this about dick size, folks? Is it about being an internet tough guy? Is admitting that the other side has a point somehow demeaning, or that you were wrong about something a fatal flaw?
Jeebus, but this bellicose gainsaying is pointless.
Pangloss
Nobody ever changes their minds about anything!
It's like the arguments from the other side only exist for the purpose of being torn apart - a deeply dishonest position to take.
I'll eat huge slices of humble pie if someone can quote a post where somebody admitted to changing their mind on something substantive because of facts presented in any of these threads.
I thought I could learn something about the Middle East by reading these threads, but instead all I've seen is entrenchment.
Is this about dick size, folks? Is it about being an internet tough guy? Is admitting that the other side has a point somehow demeaning, or that you were wrong about something a fatal flaw?
Jeebus, but this bellicose gainsaying is pointless.
Pangloss
Hi, lovely Pangloss;
if you want to learn read the given links, listen to BOTH sides. This is just a discussion board for entertainment, because our various opinions go nowhere! And if we all agreed to what the other is saying, then we would be by-passing reality as well as a great deal of fun! ;-)
Right, guys?
if you want to learn read the given links, listen to BOTH sides. This is just a discussion board for entertainment, because our various opinions go nowhere! And if we all agreed to what the other is saying, then we would be by-passing reality as well as a great deal of fun! ;-)
Right, guys?
Not at all, occasionally minor points of contention are agreed upon and views are changed subtley. Often what happens is more aspects of the same issue are discovered and taught to people, who with their moral views on right and wrong take the same stance on these new issues.
The main problem on these threads if you get a few more moderate people on opposing sides who discuss minor issues.
Then about 40 bajillion (an exageration) nutballs from either side jump in with outrageous claims (like chestnuts are lazy due to a zionist plot and Muslim extremists invented the question mark to foster moral ambiguity to the Israeli cause), which the majority of the thread devolves into trying to bother disputing and anything meaningful is drowned out.
I would really like it if you could have semi-private threads. To join the thread you have to be invited by someone else already in the thread to post.
Unfortunately, even if Isreal were to cede the West Bank, nothing would change. They've ceded land for peace before and where did that get them? No where. The Palestinians need to fight for better leadership, forget about Isreal and concentrate on bettering their own lives. Don't bother Isreal and Isreal will leave them alone. Simple!!
JMO
JMO
Obviously.
They did a unilateral withdrawal from Gaza.......forcibly taking their settlers with them. You see what happened there......
They had planned to follow with a withdrawal from the West Bank.......but the Gaza situation quickly turned into such a fiasco.......Israel is left without choices.