17-year-old girl stoned to death for loving boy of wrong religion

[Pangloss]

Mmmm - hate crimes. There's a whole new thread. I'd dispute this is a hate crime - the woman was killed because of religion/culture, as presumably, would the boy be if he were found.

I dislike the term "hate crime" - it implies that murder for one reason is more deserving of punishment than murder for another.

If a woman is murdered for her purse two days after another woman was raped in the same neighbourhood, was the crime economic (robbery/murder) or hate (robbery/misogyny)?

If I am murdered for my wallet that same night as the woman is killed, should my attacker be pursued with less vigor, or prosecuted and sentenced less harshly than the woman's killer? I am just as murdered, keep in mind.

Just as a by-the-way, more men are killed on the street than women - more men die violently than women, both in absolute numbers and as a proportion.

Pangloss

 

[Pangloss]

I think that the thing is, that the op was intended for the purposes of getting the news out about this poor young girl. I, for one didn't read it under the assumption that it was meant to incite a pi**ing contest between the genders. However, it would seem that there are those, found in any forum, that just want to put their own two cents into the equation, regardless of the facts in an op. THIS op wasn't about who gets worse treated in society... For pity's sake, if someone wants make a thread about male atrocities then start a darned thread about it. No-one is saying that males aren't treated as bad as women are, just that this thread is about THIS PARTICULAR GIRL! Anything else is off topic, and designed to disrupt genuine posts on the op.

So, you're saying the other's postings about the general topic of violence against women aren't germaine? And that responding to those points is p*ssing?

When did skepticism and honest debate become conflict?

What is this forum for - the dissemination of received wisdom?

Are you saying threads never evolve?

Finally, Libra - what about the boy who is in hiding and fearing for his life? He is mentioned in the article, is he not worthy of consideration?

Your interpretation of who brought in the topic of gender differences is apparently mistaken - it was not a man who brought this up.

Pangloss

 

[Josephine]

Mmmm - hate crimes. There's a whole new thread. I'd dispute this is a hate crime - the woman was killed because of religion/culture, as presumably, would the boy be if he were found.

I dislike the term "hate crime" - it implies that murder for one reason is more deserving of punishment than murder for another.

If a woman is murdered for her purse two days after another woman was raped in the same neighbourhood, was the crime economic (robbery/murder) or hate (robbery/misogyny)?

If I am murdered for my wallet that same night as the woman is killed, should my attacker be pursued with less vigor, or prosecuted and sentenced less harshly than the woman's killer? I am just as murdered, keep in mind.

Just as a by-the-way, more men are killed on the street than women - more men die violently than women, both in absolute numbers and as a proportion.

Pangloss

I don't think that calling something a "hate crime" means it's more important than another crime...it just allows people to consider the reason behind the violence. If it's a random act of violence that's one thing...but when it's geared towards an individual because of who or what they are, that issue should be addressed.
It's the mentality behind the murder that should be addressed.

And no, Pangloss..I don't think that one crime should be take precedence over the other. I just believe that until certain issues are truly addressed, the mentality will remain.
If someone murdered you, that would just as tragic if I was murdered! Now...if someone murdered you because you were a man and they hated men and thought that all men deserved punishment, then that issue should be raised.

The way I see it...women are not accepted and respected by all societies. That is the issue and a symptom of that is violence.

I hope this is coming across the way I mean it.

 

[Libra Girl]

Do you really think I give a toss about rep points?? Good grief, rep points don't affect reality one iota, and that's where I am, in the real world. Rep points only count here, where it doesn't matter. Get real!

 

[eh1eh]

Do you really think I give a toss about rep points?? Good grief, rep points don't affect reality one iota, and that's where I am, in the real world. Rep points only count here, where it doesn't matter. Get real!

He He:lol: , Way to play the reality card.:smile:

 

[jwv]

I think that the thing is, that the op was intended for the purposes of getting the news out about this poor young girl. I, for one didn't read it under the assumption that it was meant to incite a pi**ing contest between the genders. However, it would seem that there are those, found in any forum, that just want to put their own two cents into the equation, regardless of the facts in an op. THIS op wasn't about who gets worse treated in society... For pity's sake, if someone wants make a thread about male atrocities then start a darned thread about it. No-one is saying that males aren't treated as bad as women are, just that this thread is about THIS PARTICULAR GIRL! Anything else is off topic, and designed to disrupt genuine posts on the op.

So, in short, who cares about the boy in hiding? She is featured, obviously because she was discovered. What if it had been the boy who was discovered first? I submit we'd not have been so horrified.

 

[Libra Girl]

So, in short, who cares about the boy in hiding? She is featured, obviously because she was discovered. What if it had been the boy who was discovered first? I submit we'd not have been so horrified.

Yes, she was featured in the op; however, had it been the boy who had been discovered I, and I don't doubt many others here would have been just as eager to vilify those who would have put him to death, no doubt in the same manner. It's unfair and presumptuous of you to say that we would not have been just as horrified at the death of the boy, as of the girl. I for one, would have been just as angry and outraged.

 

[karrie]

So, in short, who cares about the boy in hiding? She is featured, obviously because she was discovered. What if it had been the boy who was discovered first? I submit we'd not have been so horrified.

Would it have even made it into the media?

One of the women put forth the fact that she has turned up no articles regarding his whereabouts, as proof that he was not in danger. I guess it's all a matter of perspective, because I took it to mean the media simply didn't care and hadn't bothered trying to find him. If we knew a woman was hiding, in fear of her life, from religious zealots, would it qualify for a mere couple of lines at the end of an article? Or would the issue have gotten an article all its own?

Sorry to carry on off topic Libra. But, it's an intriguing double standard to me.

 

[karrie]

Yes, she was featured in the op; however, had it been the boy who had been discovered I, and I don't doubt many others here would have been just as eager to vilify those who would have put him to death, no doubt in the same manner. It's unfair and presumptuous of you to say that we would not have been just as horrified at the death of the boy, as of the girl. I for one, would have been just as angry and outraged.

I have no doubt that we all would have been. What I tend to doubt is the equality of representation of cases like this in the media. Like I said in my last post... if the media knew a woman was in hiding, in danger of being beaten to death, I think it would have qualified for much more intense coverage than the couple of sentences the boy got at the end of th article.

 

[jwv]

Yes, she was featured in the op; however, had it been the boy who had been discovered I, and I don't doubt many others here would have been just as eager to vilify those who would have put him to death, no doubt in the same manner. It's unfair and presumptuous of you to say that we would not have been just as horrified at the death of the boy, as of the girl. I for one, would have been just as angry and outraged.

I'm sorry, and I know I'm new, but I very much disagree. There is a reverse prejudice towards men in today's society, at least from a Canadian point of view. Stories of men being tortured or killed certainly might get some mention here and there in the media, but not at all to the same extent if it had been a woman.

 

[jwv]

I have no doubt that we all would have been. What I tend to doubt is the equality of representation of cases like this in the media. Like I said in my last post... if the media knew a woman was in hiding, in danger of being beaten to death, I think it would have qualified for much more intense coverage than the couple of sentences the boy got at the end of th article.

That, essentially, was the point of my comments as well.

 

[Libra Girl]

Yes, I understand where you are coming from karrie, but media coverage is a whole other ball game. I wish the media at Jericho as much as anyone for their biased and slanted coverage, on practically everything printed. I'm merely pointing out that there are many of us that don't care whether the victim is a male or female, we are just as outraged, despite what some here think.

 

[Libra Girl]

I'm sorry, and I know I'm new, but I very much disagree. There is a reverse prejudice towards men in today's society, at least from a Canadian point of view. Stories of men being tortured or killed certainly might get some mention here and there in the media, but not at all to the same extent if it had been a woman.

Then you obviously haven't read the female posts here on the torture of men. I can't recall to mind the thread, or when it was, but I for one was strongly verbal in condemnation of it, as were other females here. Just because the media slant anything and everything, doesn't make us all blase about it. I think torture is just as repellant as murder.

 

[Libra Girl]

Just to add, please forgive my bad manners jwv. Welcome to CC. I'm sure you will be happy here.

 

[Josephine]

I understant what you guys are saying about having the same reaction if it was a man who was murdered.

I would be outraged as well if it was a man, but I must admit that my reaction would not have been the same. That is not to say that men are not important and that the brutal murder of a man is not horrible and newsworthy.

The history violence against men is different than the history of violence against men. I'm not too sure how to explain my position here...
Um...if a white man was tied up and dragged behind a vehicle and killed, that would cause some outrage and I think all people would be upset about that. If a black man was tied up and dragged behind a vehicle and killed, that would be yet another story of this happening to a black man and would provide those fighting to black or minority rights another example of what they are fighting against.
Does this make any sense? Like I said...not sure if I'm explaining myself properly.

As a woman, yes, I am interested in women's rights and ending violence against women, just as minorities are interested in fighting for their rights....that doesn't mean that we don't respect the rights of all.

 

[jwv]

Just to add, please forgive my bad manners jwv. Welcome to CC. I'm sure you will be happy here.

Thank you. This forum came highly recommended!
I shall have to look up, when I've more time, posts created by the person who told me about this forum in the first place.

 

[Libra Girl]

I understand you perfectly Josephine. I must admit that I am a avid campaingner against the total lack of human rights for women in eastern countries. But, I don't care what race, creed or color someone is, I would vehemently stand up for all oppressed humans, regardless of gender.

 

[Libra Girl]

Thank you. This forum came highly recommended!
I shall have to look up, when I've more time, posts created by the person who told me about this forum in the first place.

Then the person who steered you in this direction knew what they were talking about.

 

[Pangloss]

Do you really think I give a toss about rep points?? Good grief, rep points don't affect reality one iota, and that's where I am, in the real world. Rep points only count here, where it doesn't matter. Get real!

But you checked. . .

Pangloss

 

[Libra Girl]

But you checked. . .

Pangloss

No Pangloss, I was here a year, although absent for much of that, before I even knew where to find them. I happened to be in pm with someone, and one can't help but notice the top one.