Abortion is wrong no matter what! Part 2

Rawisbetter!

Electoral Member
Jan 23, 2007
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"Why argue a side you disagree with? That makes no sense."


To argue with everyone. Hey, I might learn something new and change my views on certain topics if I argue with a smart person who presents interesting facts and points.



"I consider all stages of human life equal, don't you?"



No.



"HUMAN life, HUMAN."


I'm getting the impression that you're a speciesist.
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
21,155
149
63
"Why argue a side you disagree with? That makes no sense."


To argue with everyone. Hey, I might learn something new and change my views on certain topics if I argue with a smart person who presents interesting facts and points.



"I consider all stages of human life equal, don't you?"



No.



"HUMAN life, HUMAN."


I'm getting the impression that you're a speciesist.

I'm assuming then that you're against abortion for rape cases as well.
 

Zzarchov

House Member
Aug 28, 2006
4,600
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Why argue a side you disagree with? That makes no sense.

A zygote is the earliest stage of human life.

I consider all stages of human life equal, don't you?

HUMAN life, HUMAN.


Thats exactly why if you have a choice to save a baby or an elderly paedophile on his death bed it should be random.
 

talloola

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 14, 2006
19,576
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Vancouver Island
Choices are not allowed if they hurt someone else.

I can't CHOOSE to kill someone. Because its a CHOICE that HURTS someone else
I can't CHOOSE to rape someone. Because its a CHOICE that HURTS someone else

So.

I can't CHOOSE to abort my baby. Because its a CHOICE that HURTS someone else

Now the different situations are valid:

If your raped, or if you lover lies to you about himself, and you become pregnent, then you are valid for an abortion. If the boyfriend lies about a visectomy, or he tampers with your birth control, or he lies to you about safe sex. That is not your choice. You have had a baby forced upon you, but in different aspects. One physically harmful, another deceitful.

If your mentally challenged you can't grasp right and wrong, and you can't consent to sex. So if your mentally unchallenged, the person, or its caregiver should have the option to have the child aborted.

If a woman is very ill, and sick and becomes pregnant, and the odds are against her and/or her baby, then an abortion should be valid.

This covers all FAIR circumstances.

BUT:

If you put yourself under the influence to a substance and get pregnant, you should not be able to abort. You should go through the 9 months, have the baby, and put it into social services.

If you were silly and forgot to use protection, or "were in the moment" - same thing.

If their was no deceit or wrong-doing and you had a mishap with the birth control - thats the risks you take when you consent to sex, and you should not be able to abort.

In all these cases a woman can still work for 6-7 months through the pregnancy and then is put out for the last 3-4 months of the pregnancy and birth. Then you bare no responsibilty and you can put it in social services.

Now some might ask: What type of circumstance is that for a child to be brought into the world only to be given up to social services?

To me its better to give a life a chance at something then denying them no chance at all.

I don't understand this, if your not under those 3 categories, why would people want to abort their child instead of temporary inconfort, where you can still work for most of it, then have the birth, and then you bare no more responsibilty?

And don't give me Human Rights, or rights, etc. RIGHTS apply to both sides of this arguement:

1) Denying a woman the right to choose what to do with her body
2) The right to cause cruel and inhuman death to a living being inside you

Rights go both ways here.

A life with bad circumstances is better then no life at all (referring to the baby).

Abortion is probably the biggest genocide of our time. Millions upon millions of lives haven't been given the chance at a life. This is why me and others are so passionate about the issue.

I don't care if I am a man. You may not know this, but there is alot of woman who have the same feelings as me.

And I am not over the top here either: My stance is reasonable. Others would rather see abortion illegal under all circumstances. I don't believe that.

Edit: Other issue to address, that I forgot:

The if you make it illegal, woman will find a way, and an unsafe way.

Do you realize rate now 85% of ALL physicians REFUSE to perform abortions due to ethical standings?

And if abortion is illegal (with some exceptions), then it WILL save more lives, then will be lost, for women taking unsafe routes to rid themselves of it.

And their is always that (disgraceful) Morning after pill, that the women that would want to abort but couldn't because of laws, would get off the black market.

Again: I believe any woman should be able to make a decision up to 6 wks into a pregnancy to
either continue or abort, after that point I would change my decision. You have your opinion and
belief and I have mine, simple, now have a nice day.
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
21,155
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If your raped, or if you lover lies to you about himself, and you become pregnent, then you are valid for an abortion.
Either you believe it has rights or you don't. If you call it murder why would you "murder" this embryo or fetus because of the actions of the parents? You only believe it's human life if it was conceived the "right" way? Who determines if it was rape? A court? Someone who will hear the case about 2 years too late?
 

westmanguy

Council Member
Feb 3, 2007
1,651
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There is a difference, my personal and public feelings.

I personally feel abortion shouldn't be done under any circumstances at all.. because its a life.

BUT, I publically believe there is circumstances where a woman needs to have the choice, due to the nature of the pregancy.
 

tracy

House Member
Nov 10, 2005
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Again: I believe any woman should be able to make a decision up to 6 wks into a pregnancy to
either continue or abort, after that point I would change my decision. You have your opinion and
belief and I have mine, simple, now have a nice day.

Just curious, why 6 weeks? Why not say 7 or 5?

Sorry if I missed your reasoning earlier...
 

tracy

House Member
Nov 10, 2005
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Lets say- 4 to 6 weeks, after that I am not comfortable with ending pregnancy.
More developement of embryo, soon to be fetus, and on it goes.

The problem with that is many women don't even know they are pregnant till then. It certainly doesn't give much time to decide. I don't see much problem with abortion in the first trimestre at all.
 

hermanntrude

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Jun 23, 2006
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first trimester seems sensible to me. this is the time when the embryo is known as an embryo rather than a fetus. It's also pretty early on in the pregnancy. It also gives enough time so any woman ought to have realised they're pregnant.
 

Tonington

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 27, 2006
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I'm with Tracy on the first trimester too.

I know it's cliche and all, but people really ought to concentrate on what they're doing and forget the accusations, especially if they're so unwilling to try to understand how difficult these decisions are for the people involved.
 
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Avro

Time Out
Feb 12, 2007
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I'm not a big fan of abortion but I think women deserve to choose if they are raped, their life is in jeopardy.,the child is going to be severly disabled.

Plus we do very little to help women who have been abandoned by males who think they can drop their load anywhere and piss off without any responsiblilty to the child they are a part of.

I love how it's always the womans fault that she got knocked up.
 

tracy

House Member
Nov 10, 2005
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I thought the first trimester WAS the cut off date. Legaly.

Nope. The exact date depends on where you are but there is no state or province in Canada where this is the case (except for this South Dakota mess which hasn't been sorted out yet). In theory in some areas you could abort anytime, but I find it nearly impossible to believe you could find a place that does abortions past 20 weeks unless there are serious fetal or maternal health issues. Plus women who want purely elective abortions generally want them early in the pregnancy anyways (before they start to show and when the procedure is simpler).

That's why I find the debate over "late term abortions" particularly offensive. I've participated in them as a nurse and they were never women who just decided they didn't want to be pregnant at 7 months. These were babies that would have suffered tremendously if they weren't lucky enough to die immediately after birth and the parents were always heartbroken.
 

TenPenny

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 9, 2004
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I'm not a big fan of abortion

Despite what the lunatic religious right says, I don't think you'll find ANYONE out there who is "a big fan of abortion". It's not like everyone is running around getting pregnant just so they can have an abortion; IT'S NOT FUN, you know.

Jeez, there are an awful lot of people with strong opinions on something they've never been through, and won't likely ever go through. It's always easier to make rules for other people, isn't it?
 

talloola

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 14, 2006
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The problem with that is many women don't even know they are pregnant till then. It certainly doesn't give much time to decide. I don't see much problem with abortion in the first trimestre at all.

I agree, if they don't know till a little later, that's OK too, but remembering my own pregnancies,
I knew very early, so, If I had ever been in that situation, I could have had an abortion at about
4 weeks.
I know some women's bodies aren't quite so 'efficient" at telling them, but I also think that all
women having an active sex life, should keep an awareness at all times, so that they "could"
know, doesn't matter what their situation is.