Canada need to bring back capital punishment the experiment with no death sentence increased the violence and the murder rate is up it's time to bring it back so canadians can heal
Canadian bus beheading
- Thread starter china
- Start date
If capital punishment made for a safer society, places like Texas would be the safest state in the union. Florida's violent crime and murder rate would be dropping significantly faster than Canada's. Of course we know that neither case is true and the notion that capital punishment leads to lower violence and murder rates is nothing short of foolishness.
I have question here for you? Keep in mind that I do know there are secret societies, and there groupd within groups that control the main group. Similar to a company that has a group of managers that control the other employees. All social groups have them.
What was Tim McLean really into? Could he have been in a cult? Was he big with the Gay community?
There are a few things that I don't understand. The first day of the incident it had said that Tim was on the bus sitting with the guy who was the main witness (ex-Navy guy). After Li got on he went to the back of the bus to find a seat he could stretch out in to have a sleep (one by himself). This I heard the once and never heard it again. The Navy guy alway says he never met Tim other then talk at the stop. Now, after the stop Li goes back and sits with Tim. That would likely upset Tim as he had moved to find a seat to stretch out. Could he have been pulling some of that whisper BS that young people do to try and force Li out of the seat? Head games to a person that is not all there to begin with can be a dangeroous game. I have myself been a target of incidents of this. They whisper BS to try and make you feel like you are psychotic. If I didn't know myself as well as I do I may have become upset.
Anyway, another thing that makes me wonder is the Facebook issue. Over 6000 people sign up in less than 2 days. What is with that. The guy was a carnival worker. He ran a booth at a fair. I think you would be hard pressed to get a reaction like that if they beheaded Harper. And the vocal outcry. The forums were vicious with comments about the incident after that. The should have put that towards the gas companies to get the prices down - at least it would have made a difference.
On the conspiracy front we now Li is from China. Now, although Li is likely a popular name in China, Li is named as one of the Illuminati Families. Family members said to be, almost always, Monarchs (Mind controlled slaves - through trauma abuse.) who can be controlled through the One World Brain (Collective consciousness, common sense, ESP) Could Li have actually been sent to do this kill, without him even knowing it himself?
Mind Control, The Ultimate Terror
If you haven't read it thoroughly and at least tried to understand it please do not bother trying to debunk the book.
What was Tim McLean really into? Could he have been in a cult? Was he big with the Gay community?
There are a few things that I don't understand. The first day of the incident it had said that Tim was on the bus sitting with the guy who was the main witness (ex-Navy guy). After Li got on he went to the back of the bus to find a seat he could stretch out in to have a sleep (one by himself). This I heard the once and never heard it again. The Navy guy alway says he never met Tim other then talk at the stop. Now, after the stop Li goes back and sits with Tim. That would likely upset Tim as he had moved to find a seat to stretch out. Could he have been pulling some of that whisper BS that young people do to try and force Li out of the seat? Head games to a person that is not all there to begin with can be a dangeroous game. I have myself been a target of incidents of this. They whisper BS to try and make you feel like you are psychotic. If I didn't know myself as well as I do I may have become upset.
Anyway, another thing that makes me wonder is the Facebook issue. Over 6000 people sign up in less than 2 days. What is with that. The guy was a carnival worker. He ran a booth at a fair. I think you would be hard pressed to get a reaction like that if they beheaded Harper. And the vocal outcry. The forums were vicious with comments about the incident after that. The should have put that towards the gas companies to get the prices down - at least it would have made a difference.
On the conspiracy front we now Li is from China. Now, although Li is likely a popular name in China, Li is named as one of the Illuminati Families. Family members said to be, almost always, Monarchs (Mind controlled slaves - through trauma abuse.) who can be controlled through the One World Brain (Collective consciousness, common sense, ESP) Could Li have actually been sent to do this kill, without him even knowing it himself?
Mind Control, The Ultimate Terror
If you haven't read it thoroughly and at least tried to understand it please do not bother trying to debunk the book.
Bus beheading trial ends with both sides seeking same verdict
Judge promises decision Thursday morning
Last Updated: Wednesday, March 4, 2009 | 1:09 PM CT
A two-day Winnipeg trial in a case of killing and beheading on a Greyhound bus ended Wednesday with both sides seeking the same verdict — not criminally responsible by reason of mental disorder.
The judge said he will deliver his verdict at 10 a.m. CT on Thursday.
Psychiatrists for the Crown and the defence agreed during the short trial that Vince Li, 40, was suffering from schizophrenia and did not know what he was doing when he killed 22-year-old Timothy McLean of Winnipeg on a bus in Manitoba last July.
The psychiatrists said Li believed he was acting on orders from God when he attacked McLean, mutilating the young man before decapitating him and eating part of the body.
Li had pleaded not guilty to a charge of second-degree murder, but Crown and defence lawyers asked that he be found not criminally responsible.
That verdict would mean he could be sent to a provincial psychiatric facility rather than to prison. He would be placed under the authority of a provincial review board with power to keep him in custody or, if he is no longer considered a risk, discharge him.
Rootenberg said Li meets the criteria for an accused person who would be not criminally responsible. "He has a major mental illness that …rendered him unable to know what he was doing was wrong," the psychiatrist said, suggesting Li knew he was stabbing someone but thought it was a demon and didn't understand the nature of his actions.
Earlier, forensic psychiatrist Dr. Stanley Yaren, testifying for the Crown, also gave evidence that Li was diagnosed as schizophrenic and suffered from a major psychotic episode — tormented by auditory hallucinations — at the time of the killing.
Yaren testified that according to Li, God told him that McLean was a "force of evil" who was about to stab Li unless he protected himself.
Killer could one day be rehabilitated, psychiatrists say
Even after the killing, Li believed McLean had supernatural powers and would come back to life unless he dismembered the body and spread the body parts around the bus, Yaren said. Li was not capable of understanding his actions were wrong, he testified.
Both psychiatrists said that Li, although he is very ill, could one day be rehabilitated and returned to society.
The CBC's Marisa Dragani, reporting from Winnipeg, said the trial was unusual for its brevity and lack of conflicting versions of events.
"In a murder trial, you usually hear from witnesses; you usually hear testimony about what happened, when and how," she said. "We didn't hear that.
"There was an agreed statement of facts, filed right off the bat, that the Crown and the defence agreed to, and that was read out in court. It was quite lengthy, and that was done to spare any of the witnesses and the family as well from reliving this horror.
"There were about 30 or so passengers on that bus, some of whom might still be affected by what they saw that night, and no one wanted to call them forward, and they didn't want the family to have to sit in court and listen to that testimony for weeks."
In the agreed statement of facts, the Crown and defence said that Li apologized to police when he was finally arrested on the bus, from which other passengers had fled. Li attacked McLean "for no apparent reason" and ignored other horrified passengers as he stabbed the young man.
Li got on the bus in Edmonton and disembarked at a rural stop in Manitoba. He stayed there overnight, selling and burning most of his possessions. He was there 24 hours before getting on the bus again.
Around 8:30 p.m. on July 30, near Portage la Prairie, Li started stabbing McLean. The man's body was damaged in more than 100 places, the Crown said, noting the attack was so unrelentingly violent that some of the victim's body parts could not be found.
'I'm guilty. Please kill me,' Li told police
Li, court heard, was prone to unexplained absences from work and sometimes took long road trips on the bus. Despite the urging of those close to him, he refused to seek medical treatment.
RCMP officers said Li's responses were appropriate and polite when he was finally arrested.
He declined a lawyer at one point, and told police: "I'm guilty. Please kill me."
McLean's family has been lobbying for changes to the Criminal Code that would prevent a person found not criminally responsible for a crime from ever being released into the community.
Bus beheading trial ends with both sides seeking same verdict
Judge promises decision Thursday morning
Last Updated: Wednesday, March 4, 2009 | 1:09 PM CT
A two-day Winnipeg trial in a case of killing and beheading on a Greyhound bus ended Wednesday with both sides seeking the same verdict — not criminally responsible by reason of mental disorder.
Vincent Li, seen in a courtroom sketch, listens to proceedings during his second-degree murder trial in Winnipeg. (Tom Andrich/Canadian Press)
The judge said he will deliver his verdict at 10 a.m. CT on Thursday.
Psychiatrists for the Crown and the defence agreed during the short trial that Vince Li, 40, was suffering from schizophrenia and did not know what he was doing when he killed 22-year-old Timothy McLean of Winnipeg on a bus in Manitoba last July.
The psychiatrists said Li believed he was acting on orders from God when he attacked McLean, mutilating the young man before decapitating him and eating part of the body.
Li had pleaded not guilty to a charge of second-degree murder, but Crown and defence lawyers asked that he be found not criminally responsible.
That verdict would mean he could be sent to a provincial psychiatric facility rather than to prison. He would be placed under the authority of a provincial review board with power to keep him in custody or, if he is no longer considered a risk, discharge him.
'He has a major mental illness that …rendered him unable to know what he was doing was wrong'—Dr. Jonathan Rootenberg
Toronto psychiatrist Jonathan Rootenberg, testifying for the defence, told court Wednesday that Li suffers from schizophrenia and was probably psychotic for weeks before the attack.Rootenberg said Li meets the criteria for an accused person who would be not criminally responsible. "He has a major mental illness that …rendered him unable to know what he was doing was wrong," the psychiatrist said, suggesting Li knew he was stabbing someone but thought it was a demon and didn't understand the nature of his actions.
Earlier, forensic psychiatrist Dr. Stanley Yaren, testifying for the Crown, also gave evidence that Li was diagnosed as schizophrenic and suffered from a major psychotic episode — tormented by auditory hallucinations — at the time of the killing.
Yaren testified that according to Li, God told him that McLean was a "force of evil" who was about to stab Li unless he protected himself.
Killer could one day be rehabilitated, psychiatrists say
Even after the killing, Li believed McLean had supernatural powers and would come back to life unless he dismembered the body and spread the body parts around the bus, Yaren said. Li was not capable of understanding his actions were wrong, he testified.
Both psychiatrists said that Li, although he is very ill, could one day be rehabilitated and returned to society.
The CBC's Marisa Dragani, reporting from Winnipeg, said the trial was unusual for its brevity and lack of conflicting versions of events.
"In a murder trial, you usually hear from witnesses; you usually hear testimony about what happened, when and how," she said. "We didn't hear that.
"There was an agreed statement of facts, filed right off the bat, that the Crown and the defence agreed to, and that was read out in court. It was quite lengthy, and that was done to spare any of the witnesses and the family as well from reliving this horror.
Tim McLean, 22, was killed on a Greyhound bus near Portage la Prairie, Man., in July. (Family photo)
"There were about 30 or so passengers on that bus, some of whom might still be affected by what they saw that night, and no one wanted to call them forward, and they didn't want the family to have to sit in court and listen to that testimony for weeks."
In the agreed statement of facts, the Crown and defence said that Li apologized to police when he was finally arrested on the bus, from which other passengers had fled. Li attacked McLean "for no apparent reason" and ignored other horrified passengers as he stabbed the young man.
Li got on the bus in Edmonton and disembarked at a rural stop in Manitoba. He stayed there overnight, selling and burning most of his possessions. He was there 24 hours before getting on the bus again.
Around 8:30 p.m. on July 30, near Portage la Prairie, Li started stabbing McLean. The man's body was damaged in more than 100 places, the Crown said, noting the attack was so unrelentingly violent that some of the victim's body parts could not be found.
'I'm guilty. Please kill me,' Li told police
Li, court heard, was prone to unexplained absences from work and sometimes took long road trips on the bus. Despite the urging of those close to him, he refused to seek medical treatment.
RCMP officers said Li's responses were appropriate and polite when he was finally arrested.
He declined a lawyer at one point, and told police: "I'm guilty. Please kill me."
McLean's family has been lobbying for changes to the Criminal Code that would prevent a person found not criminally responsible for a crime from ever being released into the community.
Bus beheading trial ends with both sides seeking same verdict
Agree with this article 100%. We are stupid if we agree to it. If they do grant it, I hope it is the review panelists that get beheaded and have their balls eaten by him the next time he goes nuts.
He's had a name change.........
Will Baker — formerly known as Vince Li — has been living in the community since 2016 with some restrictions on his freedom
Crown attorneys requested an adjournment to review the application but were denied.
Baker and others found not criminally responsible must undergo hearings annually to determine whether they pose a threat to the public.
Baker was discharged with some conditions last year that stated he must be supervised while taking medication for schizophrenia, disclose his address to his medical team and have no contact with McLean's family.
If granted a full discharge, Baker would no longer be required to follow those rules.
"To put it in lay terminology, the person is free to go," said Chris Summerville, CEO of the Canadian Schizophrenia Society, who has been working with Baker since his arrest.
Baker also wouldn't be required to attend annual reviews.
While patients may no longer be required by law to continue the same level of treatment after being issued an absolute discharge, Summerville says there is still an expectation they will keep up with treatment.
A psychiatrist testified Monday he is confident Baker would voluntarily continue treatment and would seek help if old symptoms were to recur.
In cross-examination, the Crown attorney asked what assurances Dr. Jeffrey Waldman could give that Baker would continue treatment.
Waldman responded that many patients who are given absolute discharges agree to have their medication monitored, adding Baker has said he is open to doing the same.
Every year since the incident, the review board has extended more freedoms to Baker, describing him as a "model patient" who is at a low risk to reoffend.
Mark Henick, national director of the Canadian Mental Health Association, said Baker should be granted the discharge if that's what the mental health experts working closely with him believe should be done.
"You can never be 100 per cent certain in these kinds of cases," Henick said.
McLean's mother, Carol de Delley, has been outspoken against the move, saying there would be no way to ensure Baker continued to take his medication.
She reiterated that after the hearing Monday.
"What if he chooses to stop his medication again? In a nutshell, I don't believe that should be his choice to make anymore," she said outside court.
"A secure facility where he can continue to receive treatment for the rest of his natural life is where he belongs. Has everyone forgotten what he did to Timothy?"
Vince Li, man who beheaded Greyhound bus passenger, seeks absolute discharge - Manitoba - CBC News
Will Baker — formerly known as Vince Li — has been living in the community since 2016 with some restrictions on his freedom
Crown attorneys requested an adjournment to review the application but were denied.
Baker and others found not criminally responsible must undergo hearings annually to determine whether they pose a threat to the public.
Baker was discharged with some conditions last year that stated he must be supervised while taking medication for schizophrenia, disclose his address to his medical team and have no contact with McLean's family.
If granted a full discharge, Baker would no longer be required to follow those rules.
"To put it in lay terminology, the person is free to go," said Chris Summerville, CEO of the Canadian Schizophrenia Society, who has been working with Baker since his arrest.
Baker also wouldn't be required to attend annual reviews.
While patients may no longer be required by law to continue the same level of treatment after being issued an absolute discharge, Summerville says there is still an expectation they will keep up with treatment.
A psychiatrist testified Monday he is confident Baker would voluntarily continue treatment and would seek help if old symptoms were to recur.
In cross-examination, the Crown attorney asked what assurances Dr. Jeffrey Waldman could give that Baker would continue treatment.
Waldman responded that many patients who are given absolute discharges agree to have their medication monitored, adding Baker has said he is open to doing the same.
Every year since the incident, the review board has extended more freedoms to Baker, describing him as a "model patient" who is at a low risk to reoffend.
Mark Henick, national director of the Canadian Mental Health Association, said Baker should be granted the discharge if that's what the mental health experts working closely with him believe should be done.
"You can never be 100 per cent certain in these kinds of cases," Henick said.
McLean's mother, Carol de Delley, has been outspoken against the move, saying there would be no way to ensure Baker continued to take his medication.
She reiterated that after the hearing Monday.
"What if he chooses to stop his medication again? In a nutshell, I don't believe that should be his choice to make anymore," she said outside court.
"A secure facility where he can continue to receive treatment for the rest of his natural life is where he belongs. Has everyone forgotten what he did to Timothy?"
Vince Li, man who beheaded Greyhound bus passenger, seeks absolute discharge - Manitoba - CBC News
Absolute discharge, hell no. Not due to his mental illness, but due to his violent mental illness. He needs to be incarcerated in a hospital for the criminally insane where they can make sure he is supervised and never ever gets off his meds, since the result of him doing so is Tim McLean.
If he is 'released' it's not on him but the Mental Health Experts that feel he's okay to be set free.
He may well feel remorse but here is no guarantee he won't do something beyond his control to someone else. If he doesn't take his meds, it could happen.
Let me put it this way, will any of the experts let him live in their house......?
If everyone who said they were sorry for a murder are they let out? No they aren't.
I don't think you understand schizophrenia or you would understand why these Mental Health Experts are themselves delusional in their wishful thinking that he be released. They of all people must understand that if he wakes up and 'doesn't feel' like taking his medication and there is no one to supervise him that could be a problem. And a schizophrenia does have their days when they don't feel like taking their meds. Sometimes they are okay for a few days, and most will realize when they should take them as they notice themselves drifting but not always which is why they end up back in the hospital.
These experts are being way to clinical in their view.........
You guys are pissed but its our justice system that allows this kind of thing.
I had a buddy who killed someone when he was working in Alberta. He got every witness to contradict their story so the court was forced to use his testimonial. He only got manslaughter and served 5 years. Hes out now and has on more than one occasian bragged about getting away with 1st degree.
I had a buddy who killed someone when he was working in Alberta. He got every witness to contradict their story so the court was forced to use his testimonial. He only got manslaughter and served 5 years. Hes out now and has on more than one occasian bragged about getting away with 1st degree.
Could be wrong, tay..........but I think Murphy is in your corner.
Could be it's the system we are pissed at?
Does not sound like someone bearing an ounce of guilt for his crime. I'd keep an eye on him, Jonnny........maybe a close one at that.