Religion in Public Schools.

[Colpy]

I've been reading about this for awhile, but was waiting for it to come up.

It hasn't.

Then I saw this piece by Mark Steyn......as usual, just dead on:

Imagine if you're a soi-disant moderate Muslim, genuinely so. You came to Canada because Yemen's a dump, and you don't want to waste your life there. And your daughter loves it, and wants to be Canadian, and be just like the other girls in her street. And then she goes to Valley Park Middle School: What if she doesn't feel it's a religious obligation to attend Friday prayers (as some Muslims argue)? Think there's much chance of being able to opt out easily at Valley Park? What if she wants to dress as she wishes to rather than as the Wahhabi/Salafist imam orders? What if she doesn't want to tell the creepy perve imam whether she's menstruating or not? What, in other words, is her chance of being able to attend Valley Park as a regular Canadian schoolgirl?

SteynOnline - HOW UNCLEAN WAS MY VALLEY

And from the left:

Ontario Education Minister Leona Dombrowsky and the Toronto District School Board are hoping the fuss over the maltreatment and humiliation of female students in a Don Mills public school will die down.
That’s not possible. School starts again in September and the Friday Muslim prayer service at Valley Park Middle School that sends girls to the back of the room will start again, too. It’s the contempt for our Canadian daughters that angers me. I, the Canadian child of immigrants from Scotland and India, cannot stomach this.

http://www.thestar.com/opinion/edit...me-toronto-schoolgirls-are-always-second-rate

Good Lord, I agree with Heather Mallick!!!!!

 

[TenPenny]

What abso fuk ing lutely blows me away is:

- boys sit in front, girls in back, separated by a barrier
- girls who are having their period are not allowed to attend, as they are unclean and therefore cannot pray
- Ontario specifically prohibits religious services in schools

Time to shut down the school completely.

 

[Colpy]

What abso fuk ing lutely blows me away is:

- boys sit in front, girls in back, separated by a barrier
- girls who are having their period are not allowed to attend, as they are unclean and therefore cannot pray
- Ontario specifically prohibits religious services in schools

Time to shut down the school completely.

What blows me away is not even that it happened, it is that the Toronto school board is defending it, and intends to allow it to continue!!!!

 

[TenPenny]

What blows me away is not even that it happened, it is that the Toronto school board is defending it, and intends to allow it to continue!!!!

But of course, because they aren't white folks, and therefore anything goes.

Hell, in Halifax they renamed a school because 'Cornwallis' offended the natives. Wait for them to demand we rename Saint John, because it's a Catholic thing and therefore an insult.

I have no issues with religions. As long as they remember they're just a service club, like Rotary, or the Kinsmen. If I'm not a member of your club, you can't tell me what to do, so **** right off. (And I'm a Rotary past president.)

 

[Goober]

What abso fuk ing lutely blows me away is:

- boys sit in front, girls in back, separated by a barrier
- girls who are having their period are not allowed to attend, as they are unclean and therefore cannot pray
- Ontario specifically prohibits religious services in schools

Time to shut down the school completely.

This has been allowed as a Pilot Project under the various Acts, Education etc- 8 years it has been runnng.

 

[Colpy]

This has been allowed as a Pilot Project under the various Acts, Education etc- 8 years it has been runnng.

I wonder how long the "pilot project" would last if agroup of Christians insisted on bringing in a good-old fashioned Bible-thumping fire-and-brimstone Baptist preacher in to lead after-school prayer sessions............

 

[Goober]

I wonder how long the "pilot project" would last if agroup of Christians insisted on bringing in a good-old fashioned Bible-thumping fire-and-brimstone Baptist preacher in to lead after-school prayer sessions............

Not long - Myself i am conflicted on this matter - i wonder if some are upset because it is Muslims.

 

[cranky]

This has been allowed as a Pilot Project under the various Acts, Education etc- 8 years it has been runnng.

we need to apply the same rationales that got the word 'christ' removed from our christmas concerts, and the lord's prayer removed from the school.....in time, we should be able to pervert a muslim school as well.

 

[Goober]

we need to apply the same rationales that got the word 'christ' removed from our christmas concerts, and the lord's prayer removed from the school.....in time, we should be able to pervert a muslim school as well.

No matter which way you cut it - Religious places in schools for students to pray - or not - It can lead to some over heated and really dumb decisions by the people that have to implement such a system. What one may consider reasonable another will not.

That said - what is the problem with providing places for people to learn about their religion - - monitored of course as some wing nuts, all religions have them would preach against gays, this that and in all likelihood the color green.

Easier to box the compass.

 

[taxslave]

Since this is a public school there should be no religion. What do non muslims do, or are they even permitted to attend this school?
To have this happen in Canada is yet another example of the dismal failure called multiculturalism.

 

[cranky]

I don't have a problem with a dozen rural families getting together and teaching their children in a humble schoolhouse while integrating their religion to the school curiculum. The government has enough standardized testing to ensure that the mathes and sciences are correctly taught.

But what do you do about a public school? An answer is beyond me. I dont have a problem with the various emersion programs out there, couldn't a religious program be implemented in a similar fashion?

 

[Goober]

Since this is a public school there should be no religion. What do non muslims do, or are they even permitted to attend this school?
To have this happen in Canada is yet another example of the dismal failure called multiculturalism.

The school is 80-90 % Muslim

Perhaps it is an example of what we lost and how society has to adapt to changing demographics and as we would say in the Army - Facts on the ground.

No one should be forced, coerced to practice a Religion - That was what we used to have - Good riddance to that - but did we throw the baby out with the bathwater?

 

[WLDB]

If they want to practice their religion in a school then they should fund their own school privately. Like all other religious groups (well, aside from the Catholics).

 

[Corduroy]

What the **** Canada?

 

[Bar Sinister]

I haven't been able to find a way to rate threads so I will just say kudos to Colpy for posting this one.

 

[petros]

Christian and Muslim go to the same schools in Iraq. How did they pull it off?

 

[Dexter Sinister]

I begin to think Christopher Hitchens may be right, we're in a contest between civilization and theocracy.

 

[petros]

Christian and Muslim go to the same schools in Iraq. How did they pull it off?

I found my own answer. The same group that always makes it work.

 

[Praxius]

What blows me away is not even that it happened, it is that the Toronto school board is defending it, and intends to allow it to continue!!!!

Here's a related news report which notes that not just a Jewish group, not just a Hindu Group, but the largest Muslim group is fighting to end this:

Muslim group wants prayer in public school stopped
Muslim group wants prayer in public school stopped | Toronto & GTA | News | Toronto Sun

"TORONTO - One of Canada’s largest Muslim groups has denounced the worshipping of their youngsters at a North York middle school claiming it has opened a Pandora’s Box of issues and must be stopped.

The Muslim Canadian Congress joined others groups like the Canadian Hindu Advocacy and Jewish Defense League, who are calling for the Friday 12:30 p.m. service that runs from November to March to be halted or monitored to avert the spread of radicalism by Imams.

“This is a very big concern for us,” Congress president Farzana Hassan said. “We are concerned that there are some Muslim groups that are not seen as Muslims and may not be invited to pray.”

Hassan cited the Ismailis and Ahmadiyyas as not being recognized as Muslims by mainstream groups.

“This is opening up a Pandora’s Box,” she said on Tuesday. “Schools are not a good place for Muslims and Hindus to have hard feelings fester and taking root.”

The concerns follows reports by the Toronto Sun that up to 400 Muslim students are allowed to have prayer services in the cafeteria at Valley Park Middle School on Overlea Blvd.

Local Imams are brought in to lead the 30 to 40 minute service in which the boys sit in front of girls in the lunch room, where non-Muslims are banned during prayers.

The service has created controversy among parents and others who claim the Toronto District School Board (TDSB) should be secular and not have religious programming.

Meir Weinstein, of the Jewsh Defence League Canada, is concerned about radical or fundamental Imams leading the service and influencing children.

He is concerned about some of the background or teachings of the Imams.

“There has to be someone to monitor the prayer services,” Weinstein said.

“We worry if they will extend their prayers to include religious ideology,” he said, “We hope this is not a trend that will continue with the TDSB.”

Homa Arjomand, of International Campaign Against Sharia Courts in Canada, called the service a “political statement” by Muslim leaders.

“We are against this 100% because it has nothing to do with the public school system,” Arjomand said. “The Muslims are trying to influence secular institutions in Canada.”

Members of the Hindu Advocacy have already called for non-halal meat products for their students.

TDSB Superintendent of Education Jim Spyropoulos said there a number of schools in Toronto that “accommodate” students with prayer requests. He did not know how many students or schools took part.

Spyropoulos said his board has to accommodate Muslims, or other ethnic groups, due to Ontario Human Rights and TDSB policy.

“We will consider the prayer request for any group who has to pray during school hours,” he said. “We have an obligation to accommodate any group or students who may have prayer needs.”

He said the services will not be monitored because “we do not have the right to tell people how to worship.”

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No you don't have to tell people how to pray, you just tell them they can't while in a publicly funded school, and that's it. If they don't like it, they can kiss some ass and go to a private school that allows this sort of crap.

People spent decades just to get the christian stuff out of school as best as they could, now to only have another religion try and bring their crap in?

I don't think so.

Although in the above, the Muslim group is only interested in getting rid of this praying due to some muslims not being included, the ends are still the same.

 

[DurkaDurka]

What blows me away is not even that it happened, it is that the Toronto school board is defending it, and intends to allow it to continue!!!!

This will definitely end up in court and assuming the justices are of sound mind, will shut this school down. I really love the double standards in this country when it comes to separation of a state & religion.