Israel...

Zzarchov

House Member
Aug 28, 2006
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Looks sort of like Iraq, yet another unprovoked war crime

Yes, genocidal dictators truly don't have it coming.

Why can't people just sit back and let someone engage in a war of genetic purity?

And why did the USA feel it right to intervene in an existing civil war by choosing sides, jeez you'd think people could learn to let a genocidal dictator finish his work without stopping him and acting like they have souls.
 

Socrates the Greek

I Remember them....
Apr 15, 2006
4,968
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Looks sort of like Iraq, yet another unprovoked war crime


It was provoked by Sadam because he at first refused to let the inspectors inspect for biological weapons of mass distraction. Sadam new he had no such weaponry but bluffed to the west and his neighbors and that got him killed.
It would have been a war crime if for sure the Americans new that he did not have them and still went into Iraq, which would be a war crime indeed. But Sadam was a brutal piece of sh!t and he brought the distraction to Iraq, if he had cooperated back then he may still be governing Iraq today.


Transcript: President Clinton explains Iraq strike

CLINTON: Good evening.
Earlier today, I ordered America's armed forces to strike military and security targets in Iraq. They are joined by British forces. Their mission is to attack Iraq's nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs and its military capacity to threaten its neighbors.
Their purpose is to protect the national interest of the United States, and indeed the interests of people throughout the Middle East and around the world.
Saddam Hussein must not be allowed to threaten his neighbors or the world with nuclear arms, poison gas or biological weapons.
 

dancing-loon

House Member
Oct 8, 2007
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I guess my article doesn't fit in at the moment, but I have to set it down here, or where else?

Turkey probes Israel on 'war crimes' in Gaza

Ankara chief prosecutor's office says investigation following complaint filed by Islamic human rights organization against Peres, Olmert and Livni

Turkish prosecutors said Friday that they were investigating whether Israeli leaders should be prosecuted for crimes against humanity over the recent military offensive in the Gaza Strip.

...Mazlum-Der, an Islamic-oriented human rights organization in Turkey, filed an official complaint against Israeli leaders.
The group alleges that genocide, torture and crimes against humanity were committed by President Shimon Peres, Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni and the country's army and military intelligence chiefs.

Mazlum-Der has also asked that the Israeli officials be detained if they enter Turkey, prosecutors said.

Full story here...
Turkey probes Israel on 'war crimes' in Gaza - Israel News, Ynetnews

Scared to be identified as Jews' / Yedioth Ahronoth
A., a Jewish woman living in Istanbul, writes of difficulties faced by Jews following rising anti-Semitism in Turkey in wake of Gaza op
Full Story

----------------------------------
"Good Luck" to the Turks! They are too insignificant to make an impact. At least half a dozen countries would have to get together on this. But that will never happen for reasons of political survival. The big countries, that matter, are all on Israel's side.
 
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Zzarchov

House Member
Aug 28, 2006
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I think Turkey claiming the moral high ground here is absurd.

As turkey, under their current prime minister, did bomb civilians to crap in a neighbouring country when militants opened fire on them from across the border.

Or did he forget he bombed villages in Northern Iraq last year, murdering civlians in response to a mere handful of attacks against the Turkish Military.


Oh the Turkish PM, do as I say, not as a I do.
 

Just the Facts

House Member
Oct 15, 2004
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I think Turkey claiming the moral high ground here is absurd.

As turkey, under their current prime minister, did bomb civilians to crap in a neighbouring country when militants opened fire on them from across the border.

Or did he forget he bombed villages in Northern Iraq last year, murdering civlians in response to a mere handful of attacks against the Turkish Military.


Oh the Turkish PM, do as I say, not as a I do.

Good catch, Z.
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
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Yes, genocidal dictators truly don't have it coming.

Why can't people just sit back and let someone engage in a war of genetic purity?

And why did the USA feel it right to intervene in an existing civil war by choosing sides, jeez you'd think people could learn to let a genocidal dictator finish his work without stopping him and acting like they have souls.

I don't care about Hussein. Amazing how people can completely ignore the million or so Israqis who've died violently and the 5 million displaced as a result of an unprovoked war crime.

Maybe I should have said it looks like Falluja.

Joe Carr: Photo Essay — Fallujah: An Unnatural Disaster - Voices in the Wilderness
 

Zzarchov

House Member
Aug 28, 2006
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A handful of destroyed and disrepair buildings? Ever been to Detroit?

Funny how the majority of those in fallujah are more than happy to have been liberated. Wars destroy buildings, thats why they are bad. But that doesnt' mean you should just sit back and let the most ruthless person run the world for fear of doing anything about it.
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
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Z: Re: ...the majority of those in fallujah are more than happy to have been liberated...
That's a pretty bold statement. How did you come to this erroneous conclusion?

During the second seige of Fallujah in 2004, the US military gave orders to kill anything that moved. That means every man, women and child in Fallujah was considered a legitimate target. The US military admits they used chemical weapons. By the end of the battle, most of the city lay in ruin and the inhabitants which either could not leave or refused to leave were slaughtered mercilessly. Estimates of civilian casualties are in the thousands. Today the city remains in ruins and most of the former residents live as homeless refugees.


The US used chemical weapons in Iraq - and then lied about it
George Monbiot: US used chemical weapons in Iraq, then lied | Politics | The Guardian

...
b. White Phosphorous. WP proved to
be an effective and versatile munition.
We used it for screening missions at
two breeches and, later in the fight, as a
potent psychological weapon against
the insurgents in trench lines and spider
holes when we could not get effects on
them with HE. We fired “shake and
bake” missions at the insurgents, using
WP to flush them out and HE to take
them out.

c. Hexachloroethane Zinc (HC) Smoke
and Precision-Guided Munitions. We
could have used these munitions. We
used improved WP for screening missions
when HC smoke would have been
more effective and saved our WP for
lethal missions.
http://www.tradoc.army.mil/pao/ProfWriting/2-2AARlow.pdf

...Under threat of a new siege, an estimated 50,000 families or 250,000 people fled Falluja. They fled with the knowledge that they would live as refugees with few or no resources. They left behind fathers, husbands, brothers and sons, as males between the ages of 15 and 45 were denied safe passage out of the city by US-led forces....

...Although there has been resounding silence about the humanitarian disaster in Falluja, the true cost to the civilian population is emerging. Preliminary estimates are as high as 6,000 Iraqis killed, a third of the city destroyed, and over 200,000 civilians living as refugees....

Peacework Back Issues | The Invasion of Falluja: A Study in the Subversion of Truth : December/January 2004-2005

You Asked for My Evidence, Mr. Ambassador. Here it is. In Iraq, the US Does Eliminate Those Who Dare to Count the Dead

...Last month, US troops once again laid siege to Falluja -- but this time the attack included a new tactic: eliminating the doctors, journalists, and clerics who focused public attention on civilian casualties last time around....

Peacework Back Issues | In Iraq, the US Does Eliminate Those Who Dare to Count the Dead : December/January 2004-2005

More recently:

Fallujuah Jan 2008
Return to Fallujah - Middle East, World - The Independent

Sounds like what Israel did to Gaza but on a bigger scale. BTW, Saddam Hussein was not in Fallujah....
 

kmtina

New Member
Feb 27, 2009
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One can understand how one might be skeptical. Hamas continues to launch rockets at Israel from Gaza. In fact, today one hit a school which was fortunately empty. Israeli News: Rocket from Gaza hit Israeli school Yet, the media doesn't cover this news here and the EU and the US continues to send large amounts of foreign aid to Gaza.
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
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Red Deer AB
Having to go to a BBC website isn't exactly keeping the news from us. This is what keeping the news from us looks like IMHO
TheStar.com | World | How 'Canadians' almost ignited a war
(in part)
The result – excerpted exclusively in today's Star – is the newly published Kill Khalid: The Failed Mossad Assassination of Khalid Mishal and the Rise of Hamas, an unsurpassed telling of how Israeli spies masquerading as Canadian tourists all but ignited a Mideast war in 1997.
The audacious Israeli plan was to spray deadly nerve gas into the ear of the then-middling Hamas operative. This, they managed – but as the stricken Mishal took ill in the Jordanian capital of Amman, the "Canadians" were captured. And that is when all hell broke loose.
McGeough's gripping account spares no detail, providing a fly-on-the-wall vantage of the rising diplomatic panic that sent shudders through world capitals.
In a span of hours, the story went from empathy – one Canadian diplomat went so far as to fetch one of her husband's shirts for the battered "tourists" – to outright fury, as Jordan's King Hussein ordered his troops to rotate the guns defending the Israeli embassy, putting the Israelis in the crosshairs.
Kill Khalid also provides startling new detail on the anxieties in Jean Chrétien's Ottawa, where government mandarins were in a frenzy to get their hands on the forgedpassports. McGeough takes us inside the king's palace for the clandestine handover of the crucial documents to Canadian officials – and how Canadian intelligence officials mounted a near-military operation to get them home to Ottawa, braced for counterattack at every stage of the journey.
Hold that thought, because McGeough has more to say on the Canadian dimensions of this saga. But for now, let us proceed to the larger, arguably more provocative, theme of the book – that Israel's botched assassination was the best, but by no means the only, example of how Hamas owes its success to a succession of errors by both Israel and the United States.
"If you stand back and look at these last 10 years, circumstances have been created again and again, by the Israelis and by Washington, to make Hamas a fait accompli," said McGeough. "Hamas has survived and thrived on the mistakes and the bad reasoning – principally of the Israelis but also of Washington. When Hamas wasn't being directly encouraged, the other Palestinian movement (the late Yasser Arafat's) Fatah, was being propped up, even though it was a corrupt and venal regime – snout-in-trough at its worst."
The masterstroke for Hamas, said McGeough, was wholly Washington's fault – the Bush administration's permission, against Israeli objections, to allow Hamas to stand for election in the Palestinian territories in 2006.
"Suddenly you had an armed resistance movement standing for election in an occupied territory. It was quite spectacular, and it again locked Hamas into the centre of the crisis at a time when it could have been pushed to the fringe."
 

ironsides

Executive Branch Member
Feb 13, 2009
8,583
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United States
Palestinians must be the dumbest people in the world, they continue to shoot rockets into Israel.

" Israel's prime minister threatened "uncompromising" retaliation against Gaza militants Sunday as Palestinian rocket fire persists six weeks after Israeli forces halted an offensive meant to end the attacks."
Olmert threatens strong response to Gaza rockets


Israel should drive them all out into Egypt and close the Gaza border, let Gaza be a buffer area like the Golan Heights are.
 

earth_as_one

Time Out
Jan 5, 2006
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Canada's reaction to Israeli agents travelling to Jordan on Canadian passports to carry out an assassination was to temporarily recall our ambassador. Our reaction almost makes us look complicit in their failed assassination attempt. Given Canada's impotent response, its very likely Israeli agents continue to travel with Canadian passports. If they are caught, we might recall our ambassador again.

Compare Canada's reaction to New Zealand's reaction to an "attempt" by Israeli agents to just illegally obtain their passport:
..."The breach of New Zealand laws and sovereignty by agents of the Israeli government has seriously strained our relationship with Israel," said the prime minister, Helen Clark.

"This type of behaviour is unacceptable internationally by any country. It is a sorry indictment of Israel that it has again taken such actions against a country with which it has friendly relations."

High-level visits between the two countries will be cancelled, visa restrictions imposed for Israeli officials, and an expected visit to New Zealand by Moshe Katsov, the Israeli president, later this year has been cancelled...

'Mossad spies' jailed over New Zealand passport fraud | World news | The Guardian

Our government's support for whatever Israel does is "unshakable" to quote Harper.

Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper told 7,000 people celebrating Israel’s 60th birthday that the Jewish State has Canada’s “unshakable support”

http://www.cjnews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=14671&Itemid=86

When Israel killed Canadian civilians and a peacekeeper in Lebanon in 2006, Harper described Israel's actions as "measured".

July 16, 2006 | 3:00 PM ET
CBC News

Seven Canadians — including four children — were killed in an Israeli air raid that hit a Lebanese town on the border with Israel on Sunday. Three Canadians were seriously injured.

Israel has acknowledged carrying out the attack...

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2006/07/16/lebanon-canadians.html


July 18 2006
Prime Minister Stephen Harper offered brief condolences yesterday to the families of Canadians killed in Lebanon, but has not asked Israel for an explanation for their deaths.

And while he offered more details, Harper did not back down from his comment that Israel's bombing of Lebanon was a "measured" response...

http://www2.canada.com/montrealgazette/news/story.html?id=296184ac-63d1-4dca-a85c-1552513c7490

UN observer's wife calls Israel attack 'intentional'
Updated Fri. Jul. 28 2006 11:37 AM ET

CTV.ca News Staff

The wife of Maj. Paeta Hess-von Kruedener, missing and presumed dead after an Israeli attack on his UN observer post, says she believes the bombing was "intentional."

CTV.ca | UN observer's wife calls Israel attack 'intentional'

Canada's relations with Israel should be "conditional" on their respect for Canada, our sovereignty and the safety of Canadian citizens. Our government should put the welfare of Canadians before our unshakable support for measured Israeli war crimes and crimes against humanity.
 

Zzarchov

House Member
Aug 28, 2006
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I think the fact that all those "Canadians" In lebannon exist should tell you how stringent we are with our passport, why would we put a double standard to Israel?

New Zealand on the other hand has a large history or western governments (France) committing terror bombings on their soil and then threatening them for catching the culprits.
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
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Canada's relations with Israel should be "conditional" on their respect for Canada, our sovereignty and the safety of Canadian citizens. Our government should put the welfare of Canadians before our unshakable support for measured Israeli war crimes and crimes against humanity.
On an even broader term shouldn't a country's present day conduct be the only guide in determining if they are benign to all other countries or they are a danger to any and all they encounter. To put the US (just as an example) on a pedestal because they did some very good things and keep them there even after they are doing acts that are condemned as being wrong by every country in the world.

The WMD's of Iraq were a no show. That was a big part of their reasoning to send combat troops there in the first place. Several years after the initial invasion somebody should be saying they have no reason to be there. Their original reasons have been proven to be false, the justification for staying...well there isn't a valid one....but the world says squat. It is an illegal occupation and by rights they should depart and leave a big fat check so Iraq can rebuild itself without the influence of the US saying what the final product should look like. If a person or a country supports something that is clearly illegal they are no better than the criminals themselves. Even a Marshal in the old west was put down if he started killing the ones he was supposed to be protecting. The responsibility is on the ones who hired the Marshal in the 1st place. If that town doesn't solve things the next town just might wipe out the Marshal and the ones who hired him.

The US likes to put on a show that indicates their current system will sort things out because that is how good and wonderful it is. The invasion happened in '03, the world waited breathlessly for a change in Gov in '06, didn't happen (probably more to do with cheating that a lack of will of the voter but even the new more powerful opposition did little or nothing to make things right for the people of Iraq) That was supposed to be the time the withdrawal was to start....wrong...just more of the same old same old. This election was the same case, new Gov lets set things right, promises were even made. Election over and the withdrawl plan is unveiled, a whole 1/1/2 years before it is to be implemented and leaving 50,000 combat troops there with their air support is not a withdrawl it is a permnant occupation.

So in the time the WMD's should have been found (say 6 months after the invasion) and the 'proposed pullout' (in that it could be cancelled by something as serious as a jawalker) is between 5 and 6 years. Every day of that time Iraqi's have and will die at the hands of the US soldiers. Every day of that time some part of their infrastructure is demolished and not repaired. Every American is responsible for those needless deaths. Even the truth activists are guilty, they have known for years how corrupt their sysytem is and......nothing......maybe next election....until then I guess the Iraqi's just have to keep dieing.

For all this the world basically says nothing but have an impovershed people send a few home-made rockets into the deserts of Israel and it is front page news for days on end.
 

MHz

Time Out
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I think the fact that all those "Canadians" In lebannon exist should tell you how stringent we are with our passport, why would we put a double standard to Israel?
Just what does that statement actually mean?
Are you hinting that those were 'fake Canadians' or that a 'real Canadian' would never visit Lebanon?

Did you read the story, the Israeli Secret Service was using Canadian passports to get close to a person so they could kill him. Please wipe the sleep from your eyes.