#1Mar 12th, 2009
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The surprise is though that the organization that runs this site isn't Baha'i, but Muslim. It's nice to see Mulims bucking the stereotype.
And some people say all Muslims are intolerant...
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The surprise is though that the organization that runs this site isn't Baha'i, but Muslim. It's nice to see Mulims bucking the stereotype.
#2
Re: And some people say all Muslims are intolerant...
Mar 12th, 2009
I'd be willing to bet those very same people who believe all Muslims are intolerant also believe "War is good business"....
#3
Re: And some people say all Muslims are intolerant...
Mar 12th, 2009
I don't think it's ones religion that makes one intolerant.
If it were then Athiests would be the most tolerant of people. And I'm sure we've all run into non tolerant athiests too.
If it were then Athiests would be the most tolerant of people. And I'm sure we've all run into non tolerant athiests too.
#4
Re: And some people say all Muslims are intolerant...
Mar 12th, 2009
Bahais claim to be pacifists but history shows that they were loyal to the fascist shah (who was imposed by a Republican financed revolution) and were the majority of his bodyguards.
#5
Re: And some people say all Muslims are intolerant...
Mar 12th, 2009Quote: Originally Posted by gopher
No they weren't:Bahais claim to be pacifists but history shows that they were loyal to the fascist shah (who was imposed by a Republican financed revolution) and were the majority of his bodyguards.
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Baha'is have no loyalty to any political party.
#6
Re: And some people say all Muslims are intolerant...
Mar 12th, 2009Quote: Originally Posted by gopher
Where did you get this from?Bahais claim to be pacifists but history shows that they were loyal to the fascist shah (who was imposed by a Republican financed revolution) and were the majority of his bodyguards.
#7
Re: And some people say all Muslims are intolerant...
Mar 13th, 2009
In canada muslims most of the time are tolerant and follow our rules, cause they want to live here without trouble
In islamic countries muslims are intolerant of you breaking there traditions, but understand that as a foreigner you sometimes just dont know, and its not your fault if you break a tradition
Yes our liberals bend over backwards for them, but there are islamic countries that bend over for the west also
In islamic countries muslims are intolerant of you breaking there traditions, but understand that as a foreigner you sometimes just dont know, and its not your fault if you break a tradition
Yes our liberals bend over backwards for them, but there are islamic countries that bend over for the west also
#8
Re: And some people say all Muslims are intolerant...
Mar 13th, 2009Quote: Originally Posted by gopher
GopherBahais claim to be pacifists but history shows that they were loyal to the fascist shah (who was imposed by a Republican financed revolution) and were the majority of his bodyguards.
Every Iranian regime persecuted them -
Some info for you on the Baha’i faith
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#9
Re: And some people say all Muslims are intolerant...
Mar 13th, 2009Quote: Originally Posted by Johnnny
As with alot of religions there is that 10% frinnge, fundamentalist, radicals whether it be Christian, Muslim or Aminism who have a deranged concept of what is right and wrongIn canada muslims most of the time are tolerant and follow our rules, cause they want to live here without trouble
In islamic countries muslims are intolerant of you breaking there traditions, but understand that as a foreigner you sometimes just dont know, and its not your fault if you break a tradition
Yes our liberals bend over backwards for them, but there are islamic countries that bend over for the west also
#10
Re: And some people say all Muslims are intolerant...
Mar 13th, 2009
Gopher, before you make such offensive claims against any group, you should be able to back up those claims or at least retract them.
#11
Re: And some people say all Muslims are intolerant...
Mar 13th, 2009Quote: Originally Posted by Goober
Thanks. Yet another example of how not all Muslims are so intolerant. Again, the professionals referred to in this article are not Baha'is themselves, and I can't immagine that they have anything to gain from standing up in defence of Baha'is. In fact, if anything, they're likely to attract more criticism and ridicule for this. So clearly, contrary to popular opinion it would seem, some Muslims are true Muslims, prepared not just to do good for their fellow man, but even to stick their neck out for him. We need to make the public more aware of these Muslims.
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With all the anti-Muslim publicity, it's nice to see that Muslims are getting some positive publicity on CNN. These Muslims should be commended as true role models for the future generation of Muslims.
#12
Re: And some people say all Muslims are intolerant...
Mar 13th, 2009
It isn't that these people are being true Muslims, remember Muhammad killed hundreds of Jews, it is that these people are being human and once again demonstrate that human nature is the origin of morality not religion.
#13
Re: And some people say all Muslims are intolerant...
Mar 13th, 2009
The Bahia Faith is a sect of Islam and seeks to impose a world theocracy. They actually seek world domination. Again, like all religion, it was founded by a lunatic and is filled with the standard insanities, wish thinking and plagiarisms you would expect from such a thing.
#14
Re: And some people say all Muslims are intolerant...
Mar 13th, 2009Quote: Originally Posted by Scott Free
In defence.It isn't that these people are being true Muslims, remember Muhammad killed hundreds of Jews.
#15
Re: And some people say all Muslims are intolerant...
Mar 13th, 2009Quote: Originally Posted by Scott Free
It began as a sect of Islam just as the Christian Faith began as a sect of Judaism. And just like the Christian Faith, it's now become an independent religion that requires procelytism of its adherents but prohibits aggressive procelitism, which would suggest that any world domination from this Faith would need to be voluntary on the part of the peoples of the world.The Bahia Faith is a sect of Islam.
Now just for the sake of argument, even if the Baha'is were a sect, that still wouldn't change the fact that they have a right to freedom from persecution.
And even if Muhammad had killed those Jews unjustly, it still wouldn't change the fact that not all Muslims are fanatics as some Media like to portray.
#16
Re: And some people say all Muslims are intolerant...
Mar 13th, 2009Quote: Originally Posted by Scott Free
I've read a number of sacred texts from various world religions, and though some of their social teachings are outdated, they were still progressive in their time.They actually seek world domination. Again, like all religion, it was founded by a lunatic and is filled with the standard insanities, wish thinking and plagiarisms you would expect from such a thing.
#17
Re: And some people say all Muslims are intolerant...
Mar 13th, 2009Quote: Originally Posted by Machjo;
The following book discusses that:Where did you get this from?
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While I did not read the book in full, I did read articles about that matter in those days. It belies the myth that certain Bahais are pacifists.
#18
Re: And some people say all Muslims are intolerant...
Mar 13th, 2009
''Some info for you on the Baha’i faith ''
Local Bahais tried to recruit me to their religion. I had a debate with three of their teachers (one of whom is a distinguished college professor) and if you don't mind the personal boast, I whipped their butts in public.
Local Bahais tried to recruit me to their religion. I had a debate with three of their teachers (one of whom is a distinguished college professor) and if you don't mind the personal boast, I whipped their butts in public.
#19
Re: And some people say all Muslims are intolerant...
Mar 13th, 2009
''Gopher, before you make such offensive claims against any group, you should be able to back up those claims or at least retract them. ''
Look at my links. Don't fret because, as always, I back up what I say.
Look at my links. Don't fret because, as always, I back up what I say.
#20
Re: And some people say all Muslims are intolerant...
Mar 14th, 2009Quote: Originally Posted by Machjo
The Bahia "teachings" are almost all plagiarisms.I've read a number of sacred texts from various world religions, and though some of their social teachings are outdated, they were still progressive in their time.
#21
Re: And some people say all Muslims are intolerant...
Mar 14th, 2009Quote: Originally Posted by Machjo
Read up on it bub. In order to be in the ruling class you need to be a Bahia in good standing (they call it administrative rights). They don't care if you don't belong they just won't let you participate.It began as a sect of Islam just as the Christian Faith began as a sect of Judaism. And just like the Christian Faith, it's now become an independent religion that requires procelytism of its adherents but prohibits aggressive procelitism, which would suggest that any world domination from this Faith would need to be voluntary on the part of the peoples of the world.
It's like communism; if you belong to the party you can vote; if you don't belong then you cannot vote.
Quote: Originally Posted by Machjo
I never said they deserved to be persecuted. Don't put words in my mouth.Now just for the sake of argument, even if the Baha'is were a sect, that still wouldn't change the fact that they have a right to freedom from persecution.
Quote: Originally Posted by Machjo
If the founder killed Jews unjustly (which he did - read up on it) then it is their leader and founder that was a fanatic and therefore the religion is one of fanatical belief (since the founder believed fanatically). Religious people try and emulate their religions founder. Therefore, though not fanatic now, they will become so with little prompting. This is and always will be the greatest danger the virus of religion poses to the world. Not just Islam but all religion.And even if Muhammad had killed those Jews unjustly, it still wouldn't change the fact that not all Muslims are fanatics as some Media like to portray.
Last edited by Scott Free; Mar 14th, 2009 at 01:27 AM..
#22
Re: And some people say all Muslims are intolerant...
Mar 14th, 2009Quote: Originally Posted by gopher
Good for you! ''Some info for you on the Baha’i faith ''
Local Bahais tried to recruit me to their religion. I had a debate with three of their teachers (one of whom is a distinguished college professor) and if you don't mind the personal boast, I whipped their butts in public.
Bahai's are keenly aware that people of capacity eschew their faith. They don't know why (lmao) but they are aware of it. They actually had a drive to bring in more capable people (their words not mine) but it was dismal failure. Their leaders raised this issue as a concern and said it would hinder their growth if "people of capacity" continued to escape them.
I thought the whole thing was quite hysterical myself. I figured they needed pictures and maybe a cardboard cut out so they could identify these "capable people." That idea wasn't rescieved very well.
They are a fairly bright group, generally well educated since they put great value on that, but definately lack the critical skills to see through the BS of their founder. Any that do posses such skills naturally leave and thereby, I presume, become capable. lol.
#23
Re: And some people say all Muslims are intolerant...
Mar 14th, 2009Quote:
exactlyAs with alot of religions there is that 10% frinnge, fundamentalist, radicals whether it be Christian, Muslim or Aminism who have a deranged concept of what is right and wrong
#24
Re: And some people say all Muslims are intolerant...
Mar 14th, 2009Quote: Originally Posted by gopher
From the book:The following book discusses that:
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While I did not read the book in full, I did read articles about that matter in those days. It belies the myth that certain Bahais are pacifists.
"Bahais are not allowed to assume political posts without prior permission of their top leader in Aka, a Bahai holy site in Israel. They are required to confine teir activities to trade and agriculture."
According to their very scriptures (I've read some Baha'i scriptures too.), they are simply prohibited fromaccepting partisan political posts, and no authority can overturn that. And as for confining their activities to trade and agriculture, I have no idea where this comes from. Their very sacred texts laud all sciences, arts, trades and professions that are beneficial to mankind. So this simply shows his ignorance of the facts of the matter.
'“So, why have you accepted a political post?”, Once I asked Sani.
“Leader permits us to accept political posts in exceptional cases”, he replied.'
If this is true, then that Baha'i had no idea what he was talking about.
"Bahais believe that Iran is the “Promised Land” for Bahais and therefore assuming political posts in Iran was not prohibited."
I've known many Baha'is, including Persian Baha'is, and have discussed various topics with them, and never have I ever heard of Iran as the "promissed land". In fact, the emphasis has always been on mankind being one, the Baha'i Faith being a world religion, and Iran being merely the birthplace of the faith. If there is any geographical centre, that would be 'Akka, in Palestine, not Iran. And it's been like this even long befor ethe collapse of the Shah. Clearly this man has no idea what he's talking about. Either that, or the Baha'is he met were quite unusual to say the least.
"All the Bahais I have met do not have a feeling of being Iranians. It was clear to me that they were spies."
There's also a possible misunderstanding here. Many Baha'is place emphasis on being members of one human race. This would not preclude a sentiment of patriotism though. I'm just pointing out that there could be a misunderstanding here. He's not very precise.
" The Shah not only show any sensitivity towards the growing power of Bahais in Iran but also he explicitely disclosed that he was happy to see them in important posts because they did not conspire against him.The powerful Bahais did everything to improve their financial position and take the upper hand in handling the country’s economic affairs. I did not know any poor Bahai during this period. Many districts in Tehran were under Bahai’s virtual control..."
This reveals considerable bias on the author's part:
1. It's natural for a national leader to favour those who are not conspiring against him over those who are. Common sense. If anything, this is an unintentional compliment to the Baha'is and contradicts the claims made above. Freudian slip?
2. As for Baha'is trying to improve their financial lot, that is vague. Don't we all? That could consist in studying hard, getting a good education, working hard, being honest and trustworthy in business practices, etc.
"During the reign of the last Pahlavi monarch, Bahais launched an extensive campaign propagating Bahaism in Iran. They used girls as means of luring men to convert to Bahaism. They also prescribed marriages between Bahais and Muslims. Iran had the biggest Bahai population in the world after the United States. Bahais who are mostly living in Chicago, U.S. are a powerful community. During the height of Bahais power in Iran, Bahaism was among the religions mentioned in employment application forms in government departments but it was dropped from the forms after their holy site was demolished in Tehran. Since then, they were introducing themselves as Muslims!"
Now this is extremely suspicious. From my observations, though Baha'is are socially progressive, they tend to be personally conservative. So why would they be prostituting their daughters of all people to gain converts? In fact, though they actively teach their Faith, I'd known of one case of a Baha'i parent who discouraged his teenaged child from pretending to be a Baha'i to stay with his Baha'i friends. So while they're procelyte, they are by no means aggressively so, with some exceptions who are generally frowned upon by the rest, and would certainly not defend sacrificing their standards or their daughters to gain converts. As for marriage, they're free to marry outside their Faith. And that's a problem? And haivng a large Baha'i population is a problem too? What about freedom of religion? And as for denying their Faith under any circumstances, though it does happen, that's highly frowned upon too in that Faith. So any Baha'i who would have done this would be embarrased in front of other Baha'is.
Alot of bias is expressed in that last paragraph. And considering all the other errors above, it really puts the author's scholarship to question.
#25
Re: And some people say all Muslims are intolerant...
Mar 14th, 2009Quote: Originally Posted by Scott Free
Could you give an example? I've found plenty in each religion that was quite unique to itself, and the Baha'i texts are no exception. Just to take but one example:The Bahia "teachings" are almost all plagiarisms.
The Great Being, wishing to reveal the prerequisites of the peace and tranquillity of the world and the advancement of its peoples, hath written: The time must come when the imperative necessity for the holding of a vast, an all-embracing assemblage of men will be universally realized. The rulers and kings of the earth must needs attend it, and, participating in its deliberations, must consider such ways and means as will lay the foundations of the world's Great Peace amongst men. Such a peace demandeth that the Great Powers should resolve, for the sake of the tranquillity of the peoples of the earth, to be fully reconciled among themselves. Should any king take up arms against another, all should unitedly arise and prevent him. If this be done, the nations of the world will no longer require any armaments, except for the purpose of preserving the security of their realms and of maintaining internal order within their territories. This will ensure the peace and composure of every people, government and nation. We fain would hope that the kings and rulers of the earth, the mirrors of the gracious and almighty name of God, may attain unto this station, and shield mankind from the onslaught of tyranny. ...The day is approaching when all the peoples of the world will have adopted one universal language and one common script. When this is achieved, to whatsoever city a man may journey, it shall be as if he were entering his own home. These things are obligatory and absolutely essential. It is incumbent upon every man of insight and understanding to strive to translate that which hath been written into reality and action.... That one indeed is a man who, today, dedicateth himself to the service of the entire human race. The Great Being saith: Blessed and happy is he that ariseth to promote the best interests of the peoples and kindreds of the earth. In another passage He hath proclaimed: It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens.
(Bahá'u'lláh, "Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá'u'lláh," p. 24
Find anyhing remotely equivalent in any other religious text other than as distant future prophecy?
#26
Re: And some people say all Muslims are intolerant...
Mar 14th, 2009
It only takes one politician to kiss your baby then you vote for the party again.
#27
Re: And some people say all Muslims are intolerant...
Mar 14th, 2009Quote: Originally Posted by CanadianLove
either that or you "baby" catches hoof and mouth disease It only takes one politician to kiss your baby then you vote for the party again.
#28
Re: And some people say all Muslims are intolerant...
Mar 14th, 2009Quote: Originally Posted by Tyr
the fringe element justs seems to be proportionally higher for Christians and Muslims. Probably closer to 20%As with alot of religions there is that 10% fringe, fundamentalist, radicals whether it be Christian, Muslim or Aminism who have a deranged concept of what is right and wrong
#29
Re: And some people say all Muslims are intolerant...
Mar 14th, 2009Quote: Originally Posted by Machjo
Sure, I'll give you two to start: his "new world order" is a gross perversion of Godwin's teachings of anarchism. I say gross because he claims authority by god and seeks to turn it into a theocracy. The other is that he claims "men and women are equal but different" yet he doesn't credit Socrates who said it first. Not only that he makes the statement as though it were his and makes it one of his main principles!Could you give an example?
Quote: Originally Posted by Machjo
This is Godwin except Godwin wanted kingships to end and the assemblies to be the people without social class. Your Butthead friend turned it into an elitist trip with him or his grandson as leader by virtue of being "from god."Quote has been trimmed, See full post:
I've found plenty in each religion that was quite unique to itself, and the Baha'i texts are no exception. Just to take but one example:
The Great Being, wishing to reveal the prerequisites of the peace and tranquillity of the world and the advancement of its peoples, hath written: The time must come when the imperative necessity for the holding of a vast, an all-embracing assemblage of men will be universally realized. The rulers and kings of the earth must needs attend it, and, participating in its deliberations, must consider such ways and means as will lay the foundations of the world's Great Peace amongst men. Such a peace demandeth that the Great Powers should resolve, for the sake of the tranquillity of the peoples of the earth, to be fully reconciled among themselves. Should any king take up arms against another, all should unitedly arise and prevent him. If this be done, the nations of the world will no longer require any armaments, except for the purpose of preserving the security of their realms and of maintaining internal order within their territories. This will ensure the peace and composure of every people, government and nation. We fain would hope that the kings and rulers of the earth, the mirrors of the gracious and almighty name of God, may attain unto this station, and shield mankind from the onslaught of tyranny. ...The day is approaching when all the peoples of the world will have...
Luckily Shogi Effendi was educated enough to realize his relative was a maniac and so left no will, despite being ordered to, and thereby didn't appoint a new Guardian (a.k.a. pope/king of the world).
Shogi Effendi' may have single handedly saved us from the tyranny of yet another damn doomsday cult. He's the real hero in this twisted little story.
Quote: Originally Posted by Machjo
He didn't just rip off religious texts, he also ripped off political writings too.Find anyhing remotely equivalent in any other religious text other than as distant future prophecy?
I might point out too that Baha'ullah threw half his writings in the river. These are writings that were supposedly dictated to him by god! And he just tossed them in the river.... yeah right! It was crap, he knew it, and tossed it. His claim was that people weren't ready for it... hmmm....sure
Last edited by Scott Free; Mar 14th, 2009 at 02:10 PM..
#30
Re: And some people say all Muslims are intolerant...
Mar 14th, 2009
''he explicitely disclosed that he was happy to see them in important posts because they did not conspire against him.''
You are aware of the fact that he over threw a democratically elected government and that he killed anyone who dared dissent against him just like Saddam. If Bahais were progressives, they would have promoted democracy, not fascism.
You are aware of the fact that he over threw a democratically elected government and that he killed anyone who dared dissent against him just like Saddam. If Bahais were progressives, they would have promoted democracy, not fascism.
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