A comment on Linux for the "average" user

Judland

Electoral Member
Just wanted to take a moment to pass along my recent experience with the Linux desktop and the "average" computer user.

Recently, as an early Christmas gift, I sent my parents a new computer with, of course, Linux installed on it... not Microsoft Windows.

This weekend I received a call from my father, telling me that the computer arrived and was ready to hook it up, replacing their old W98 computer.

Now, let me try and set the picutre. My father's is far from being computer-savvy. This weekend, I had to explain to him what the taskbar was used for, as over the past couple of years using W98, he never knew he could minimize a window on the desktop. Get the picture?

Anyway, I guided him through the hook-up of all of the different cables (power, keyboard, mouse, etc.) then got him to boot-up the new PC.

I took some time in explaining to him that he needs to "log-in" to the computer now, as Linux has some built-in security to keep his new system safe. He seemed to understand.

Next, I instructed him through the process of setting up a session for me to "share his desktop." In a couple minutes, I was connected to his PC and was able to give him a tour of his new KDE desktop environment. This feature is something that's available right "out of the box" and is a wonderful tool to have at hand.

I showed him the basics he needed to know... which icon launched his web browser, which one launched his e-mail reader, and how he could listen to his CDs. We spent about 45 minutes touring around KDE. I even showed him a few games he had to play (Frozen Bubble, multiple card games, etc.).

Well, I got my first phone call from him today and he's been loggin in all by himself and surfing the Net with ease. He's also happy to know that he doesn't have to worry about all those Internet "nasties", as he was really getting paranoid over most everything on the Net lately.

So, I really don't see the standard anti-Linux remark, "it's not yet ready for the average computer user" holding any water.

I'll admit, all the FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt) made me a little concerned when I sent my parents their new PC, but not anymore. If someone like my father can take to it as easy as this, I'm convinced any computer user can.
 

cdn_bc_ca

Electoral Member
May 5, 2005
389
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just wait until he tries to install something... like a new chess program.

How does he print? What happens if he gets a new printer?

What kind of software are you going to install for him when he gets a new camera and tries to print some 4x6's? Are you going to teach him how to use GIMP?

If you think the "average user" just surfs the web, you are mistaken.
 

Judland

Electoral Member
cdn_bc_ca said:
just wait until he tries to install something... like a new chess program.

How does he print? What happens if he gets a new printer?

What kind of software are you going to install for him when he gets a new camera and tries to print some 4x6's? Are you going to teach him how to use GIMP?

If you think the "average user" just surfs the web, you are mistaken.

For the digital camera he has, he'll use Digikam. It detected his camea without a problem, once he plugged it into the USB port. It can do simple things, like crop, colour leveling, red eye reduction, and a few other little things. He wouldn't really need to use GIMP, unless he really wanted to.

If he wants to install a chess program, if he was ever interested in such a thing, I'd show him how to use Synaptic. Simply do a search, put a check-mark next to the program he'd like to try and click "Apply". No big deal.

As for a printer... he doesn't have one yet. But that's probably the best situation to be in. If he wants one, all he has to do is buy one that Linux compliant. I'd probably suggest an HP as many of their models are supported on Linux (mostly because HP themselves are making Linux drivers for them). Again... not a big deal.

Point being, he's using Linux witout any extra effort and no compromises.
 

cdn_bc_ca

Electoral Member
May 5, 2005
389
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Vancouver
Judland, it seems that you will come up with a rebuttal for everything I say and since this Linux vs. Windows topic has spilled over into an additional thread, I think it's fair to say that for any prospecting user thinking of switching to Linux, try a Live CD first and see if it can do all the things that they normally do in Windows
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
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As a someone who

just started using a computer with Windows 3.1 about ten years ago or so, and have fumbled along through Windows 95, and 98, 98SE, and finally, 2000 PRO, I have to say that my introduction to Linux about three years ago was rather daunting to say the least. Linux simply does not do the range of things that Windows offers right out of the box.

I have recently gotten back in contact with Linux via DSL. I am gradually learning but Linux is most definitely not as user friendly as Windows. But for the price, I would buy a new Apple system and forget both Windows and Linux.
 

Judland

Electoral Member
cdn_bc_ca said:
Judland, it seems that you will come up with a rebuttal for everything I say and since this Linux vs. Windows topic has spilled over into an additional thread, I think it's fair to say that for any prospecting user thinking of switching to Linux, try a Live CD first and see if it can do all the things that they normally do in Windows

Hmmm.... I think the situation is the other way around. But, that's okay.

Besides, I thought someone visiting these forums might benefit from some encouragement to try something new, rather than being discouraged without even bothering to try something better for themselves.

#juan, If your truly serious about giving Linux the old college try once again, I suggest taking a look at Kanotix (www.kanotix.com) sometime. It's a live CD, like DSL, but runs KDE 3.4, which is a much more intuitive desktop environment.

I've recommended it to many now ex-MS Windows users and they seem to do quite well with it. It does require more recent hardware, compared to DSL. I'd suggest PIII or at least a PII with 256MB of RAM.

Just a suggestion. Although, I am curious as to what "range of things" you're referring to.

Of course, I could say the same about Linux. For one: anyone know where I can find a MS-XP live CD? :lol:
 

cdn_bc_ca

Electoral Member
May 5, 2005
389
1
18
Vancouver
#juan said:
As a someone who

just started using a computer with Windows 3.1 about ten years ago or so, and have fumbled along through Windows 95, and 98, 98SE, and finally, 2000 PRO, I have to say that my introduction to Linux about three years ago was rather daunting to say the least. Linux simply does not do the range of things that Windows offers right out of the box.

I have recently gotten back in contact with Linux via DSL. I am gradually learning but Linux is most definitely not as user friendly as Windows. But for the price, I would buy a new Apple system and forget both Windows and Linux.

I'm in the same boat as you were Juan. I'm not saying that Linux sucks, I'm just saying that it took me more time to configure a Linux box to do the same thing than with a Windows box. Please read my posts in the Windows Vs. Linux thread for some examples (read VPN). Personally, I find it kind of tiresome configuring and modifying scripts all the time to do something that should just work with a few mouse clicks... really. You can laugh if you want, but it seems like Apple went through a great deal of effort to stop the user from doing just this in their OS. Why would they do this I wonder?

I too have held on to the faint hope that one day, my Archlinux installation will do the things that I want it to do fast and easy so that I can get on with my work rather than scratching my already balding head :wink:
 

Judland

Electoral Member
cdn_bc_ca said:
I too have held on to the faint hope that one day, my Archlinux installation will do the things that I want it to do fast and easy so that I can get on with my work rather than scratching my already balding head :wink:

Don't get me wrong... I know I'm giving you a hard time about all of this, and any opinion any one of us have is based on our own experiences.

Fortunately, I didn't start off with Archlinux. I only graduated myself into Arch because I felt confident in my computing skills to learn more about what goes on behind the GUIs. I also own pretty run of the mill hardware and I suppose I can even say I'm fortunate that the office I work for uses Citrix, as I've had no problem setting that up to run on my Linux box to communicate with the office's servers.

So, obviously, my Linux experience has been much more rewarding and positive. And my point is, if I found it this easy to use, then I'm sure others could/have benefited in the same way.

I'd never recommend Arch to someone more comfortable with clicky buttons than the command prompt. It's designed for the person who want to do that sort of scripting stuff.

If, for example, a person were to start off with something like Kanotix, I honestly believe they'd find Linux just as (if not more) easy to set-up, use, and maintain than any existing GUI OS on the market.

And there lies one of the major advantanges of Linux..... CHOICE!

I'm now using my parents as an example, because their situation is something I've expereinced first hand. Probably the most non-computer savvy people on the planet, yet they're using their new Linux PC without any difficulties. It just justifies my ideas that Linux isn't as mysterious as many make it out to be.

Now, ask me if computers in general should be made for "Joe Average"..... that's another story. :roll:
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
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Microsoft’s OPS are on 95% (or more) of the desktop PCs sold in the market. To show new users Linux instead of the common OPS everyone else uses, does do them much good when they go to use other peoples machines, or when they need tech support and you’re not around.
 

Judland

Electoral Member
:roll: Oh, boy. No offence intended, but that has got to be one of the more "lame" reasons not to use anything other than MS-Windows.

What you're telling me is, "Use product "X" 'cause everyone else is and you shouldn't take matters into your own hands."
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
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No I'm saying you’re not doing new users any service by throwing them into an OPS that no one supports.

Experienced users are a different story.
 

Haggis McBagpipe

Walks on Forum Water
Jun 11, 2004
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Victoria, B.C.
What is your opinion of Linspire? I have been tempted by it, I can get a whole system set-up at Sub500 (Canadian online computer source) for $359. I've used Macs for years, have used Windoze as well. Linux has appealed to me for some time, not to replace my G5 but as a second computer.

Actually, besides offering an opinion on Linspire, can anybody give me their good or bad experiences with Sub500?
 

cdn_bc_ca

Electoral Member
May 5, 2005
389
1
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Vancouver
Re: RE: A comment on Linux for the "average" user

Jay said:
No I'm saying you’re not doing new users any service by throwing them into an OPS that no one supports.

Experienced users are a different story.

Not only that, even if there was support for Linux, not all distributions are the same. For example, some distributions use XORG and others use XFREE86... now imagine what would happen if you called up your backup computer support guy (because your main support guy is on vacation) and he tells you to go to your XFREE86 directory and edit the XFREE86.conf when you are actually running XORG with an XORG.CONF!!! Now, if he was any experienced Linux person, he would probably figure this out after some time, but what a time waster... especially when you helping people who can barely type as it is.

And don't get me started with those people using DEVFS vs. UDEV. I can just picture the UDEV guy telling the DEVFS guy to mount a partition using a UDEV structure and it's not working for the DEVFS guy.

Choice is good, but not always.
 

Haggis McBagpipe

Walks on Forum Water
Jun 11, 2004
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If anybody can tell me something about Linspire, please do, or anything about Sub500. If nobody knows, maybe someone knows of a good resource to find out about such things.
 

no1important

Time Out
Jan 9, 2003
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RE: A comment on Linux fo

I heard it was suppose to be pretty good. I have never personally used it. You can get it for 59.95 us on a disk or 49.95 if you down load from homepage here link

from linux.org~

Linspire is a full-featured computer operating system designed for desktop and laptop computers. Based on Debian Linux, Linspire provides a powerful, stable, virus-free computing experience, yet is incredibly easy-to-use.

Bundled software includes a Microsoft Office file-compatible office suite, a powerful Internet and email suite, complete song and photo programs, media players for viewing animation and videos, and much more. New software is installed and managed with just one-click from Linspire's CNR Warehouse, an online library of over 2,000 programs, with the optional Linspire CNR Service.

Use Linspire to do things on the Web, create and share documents, work with graphics, play music, organize digital photos, view rich multimedia files and easily connect to networks and peripherals.

I could not find any reviews really on it, just a bunch of chat boards. I heard it is suppose to be good but never tried it myself, maybe one day. Sorry I could not be anymore helpful. But if I come across anything I will let you know.

This board I post at and visit and maybe you can find some info there?
Link
 

Haggis McBagpipe

Walks on Forum Water
Jun 11, 2004
5,085
7
38
Victoria, B.C.
Thanks no1important... I appreciate your taking the time to post that info. I am intrigued by Linux, and the sub500 site offers the most amazing packages, $359 for a full computer setup running Linspire. On the other hand, because it *is* so cheap I am inclined to worry that it might be a case of too good to be true. Sounds as though the OS is good, though, so maybe I need to investigate the hardware, that might be where the too good to be true gremlins are lurking. Thanks again.
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
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$359 Canadian is really cheap for a new machine. You get what you pay for. I just spent 1K on a new machine, without an OPS on it.
 

Haggis McBagpipe

Walks on Forum Water
Jun 11, 2004
5,085
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38
Victoria, B.C.
Re: RE: A comment on Linux for the "average" user

Jay said:
$359 Canadian is really cheap for a new machine. You get what you pay for. I just spent 1K on a new machine, without an OPS on it.

I agree, but having almost no experience with non-Macs I don't know for sure. My main machine was costly, as G5s are wont to be, but for a second machine I can be cheaper. Still, there's cheap pretty-good and there's cheap crapola. This is what $359 gets from sub500:

Intel Celeron 2.26 GHZ CPU
Intel motherboard
integrated video/lan/sound/USB
Model: Intel D845GVFN
mid-tower, front & rear USB
80 gig 7200 rpm drive
256 meg RAM
52/24/52 CD-RW
speakers
keyboard & mouse
Linux distro OS
1 yr warrantee
 

cdn_bc_ca

Electoral Member
May 5, 2005
389
1
18
Vancouver
Re: RE: A comment on Linux for the "average" user

Haggis McBagpipe said:
I agree, but having almost no experience with non-Macs I don't know for sure. My main machine was costly, as G5s are wont to be, but for a second machine I can be cheaper. Still, there's cheap pretty-good and there's cheap crapola. This is what $359 gets from sub500:

Intel Celeron 2.26 GHZ CPU
Intel motherboard
integrated video/lan/sound/USB
Model: Intel D845GVFN
mid-tower, front & rear USB
80 gig 7200 rpm drive
256 meg RAM
52/24/52 CD-RW
speakers
keyboard & mouse
Linux distro OS
1 yr warrantee

Hi Haggis, before you commit to buying this machine, you should check out
TigerDirect http://www.tigerdirect.ca
Dell http://www.dell.ca
NCIX http://www.ncix.com

I've found the tigerdirect site to have some pretty good deals on hardware. You can always download Linspire onto a cd and then install onto your new computer when you get it (just check the hardware compatability list on the Linspire site first before you commit). Here is the link:

Linspire Hardware Compatibility List http://www.linspire.com/linspire_hardware_compatibility.php

Considering that you have a G5, you will probably be disappointed at the performance of the sub500.

Cheers.
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
8,366
3
38
Re: RE: A comment on Linux for the "average" user

Haggis McBagpipe said:
Jay said:
$359 Canadian is really cheap for a new machine. You get what you pay for. I just spent 1K on a new machine, without an OPS on it.

I agree, but having almost no experience with non-Macs I don't know for sure. My main machine was costly, as G5s are wont to be, but for a second machine I can be cheaper. Still, there's cheap pretty-good and there's cheap crapola. This is what $359 gets from sub500:

Intel Celeron 2.26 GHZ CPU
Intel motherboard
integrated video/lan/sound/USB
Model: Intel D845GVFN
mid-tower, front & rear USB
80 gig 7200 rpm drive
256 meg RAM
52/24/52 CD-RW
speakers
keyboard & mouse
Linux distro OS
1 yr warrantee

You can't go wrong with Intel parts. The Celeron chip will be part of the decrease in costs for sure. My opinion... Buy it. Intel boards and most chips have three year warranties too, so when your 1st year runs out, you aren’t left holding the bag yourself.

I just bought a Dual Core Intel based system; that is one of the reasons it cost me so much. (It is becoming my main machine and my 3 GHz Intel based machine will be my server. I consider myself lucky to be in the business and have access to wholesale prices and company credit. :) )