Does God Really Exist?

pfrattali
#1
Does God Really Exist?

Do you doubt the existence of a Supreme Intelligent Being?
Think logically:
Are there not laws of conservation of Energy governing the universe? Remember, Energy cannot be created nor destroyed (#1 & #2 laws of thermodynamics). You can only change its state. Through logic then, we can conclude that Energy had no beginning (cannot be created) and will never end (cannot be destroyed). In other words, ENERGY IS ETERNAL. Do you not think that ENERGY RULES then?

If you believe in the 'BIG BANG' then tell me, how did ENERGY 'appear' out of nowhere?
In fact, Energy can only happen as a result of vacuum or complete nothingness, of which there was no beginning. The vacuum causes Energy to flow. This flow has always been and will always be. No beginning, no end. The nothingness is also still there and will always be. Why? Because PURE ENERGY ITSELF IS INVISIBLE. Energy is what causes perception and conscious awareness. You cannot see Pure Energy itself, but you can observe its effects. Energy holds the complete blueprint of ALL cause and effect of the entire Universe.

Did you ever stop to think that maybe, just maybe, Energy in its purest form is intelligent/conscious? Do you have proof that it's not? Thus God is PURE INTELLIGENT ENERGY, a PERFECT, UNIVERSALLY CONSCIOUS BEING without flaw.

What causes you to 'think', be 'intelligent', 'perceive reality', etc.? Is it not ENERGY? Do you agree that Energy allows for brain functions which eventually bring about intelligence and self-awareness in us ('I think, therefore I am')? Now ask yourself: IF ENERGY IS NOT INTELLIGENT, HOW DO YOU SUPPOSE SOMETHING THAT IS NOT INTELLIGENT BRING ABOUT INTELLIGENCE ITSELF?
Does it not make logical sense that if SOMETHING is to bring about intelligence, IT would have to be intelligent also? To say that something non-intelligent brings forth or creates 'intelligence' by random accident is absurd!
My proof here is common sense.

Now, since God is ETERNAL and we are created in His image, we are ETERNAL also. We are made of ENERGY too, are we not? So if you decide you want nothing to do with God and His RULE of the Universe, then where will you spend eternity after your soul and spirit leave your mortal body? Is God going to receive you into His Presence? Wait a minute! You just said you didn't want anything to do with God! I'll let you think about that one.


Energy has it's own set of laws and if we mess with those laws, we'll probably get burned! Energy is a two-edged sword. It can be beneficial to us, but it can also destroy us. It all depends on our attitude towards it. If we as human beings are to live in peace and harmony with one another and with nature, should we not submit to these laws, the laws of the Creator? Should we not submit to God? Look at our society. Do we not have judges, laws, law enforcement, etc.? If we didn't, wouldn't there be chaos? If someone breaks the law, should they go unpunished? Should they not be charged or go to jail?

To sum it all up:
ENERGY = LIFE, LIGHT, REALITY, CONSCIOUS AWARENESS
ENERGY is ETERNAL
GOD is PURE ENERGY



Look around you, at all of nature. Do you not see design? For every design there must be a Designer! Do you not see programming in the complex makeup of DNA? For every program there must be a Programmer!


So why are we here? Why did God create us? Simple. God wanted a family to enjoy. God is good and wants us to enjoy life with Him and with one another. Do you not suppose God loves you and cares for your well-being?

So why is this world full of problems? Simple. Because most people have left God and want their own rule. They want to be their 'own god' and don't want the perfect rule of God. They've taken prayer out of schools. They think they don't need God! But God is the 'Source' and if you separate yourself from the Source, you suffer decay and corruption. So mankind is now 'fumbling' around, so to speak, without God. God is allowing these problems in the world so that mankind can learn through 'experience'. God has already warned through 'words', but mankind will not listen to the 'Word of God'. The more stubborn a man is to listen to and obey God, the more painful the experience will be.
If you're a parent and you try to teach your children not to touch a hot stove, how would you do it? With 'words'. You warn them. If they don't listen to you, then what alternative is there? Your children will learn through 'experience'. They will touch the hot stove and get burned. They will think twice before doing it the next time.

Will these problems on planet earth go on forever? Of course not. Read the last book of the Bible. It will tell you what will happen in the future. God is coming back to judge mankind and set things straight. This world will be restored by God. Either you submit to His Way or get out of the way!


"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God has shown it unto them. For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His ETERNAL POWER and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified Him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man, and to birds, and four-footed beasts, and creeping things." Romans 1:18-23



1 The fool has said in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, They have done abominable works, There is none who does good. 2 The LORD looks down from heaven upon the children of men, To see if there are any who understand, who seek God. 3 They have all turned aside, They have together become corrupt; There is none who does good, No, not one. Psalm 14:1-3



"But without faith it is impossible to please Him: for he that comes to God must believe that HE IS, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him." Hebrews 11:6



Seek God - Main - Does God Really Exist? (external - login to view)
 
Cliffy
#2
Dude, you had me at the beginning then your theory fell apart by bring up this jealous and very human god non-sense. If you are referring to the energy that makes up the universe as god and that this energy is the source of all life and consciousness, then it is impossible to be separate from it. And if you think the in all this vast space with its billions of stars and planets, that god chose this insignificant speck of dust that we call Earth to be the only repository of intelligent life, then you are not thinking at all.

And if you think that the infinite intelligence of the Universe is concerned with the finite intelligence of an insignificant species, one that does not have the intelligence to know that you do not crap in your bed and water and is hell bent on destroying his only life support system, then you have not really thought this whole issue through and are only spouting garbage from a book of fiction.
 
TrapperSnapper
#3
Yes doGs do exist, does theat mean I'm dyslexic?
 
Cliffy
#4
Quote: Originally Posted by TrapperSnapperView Post

Yes doGs do exist, does theat mean I'm dyslexic?

By your avatar, I would say you drink too much coffee.
 
SirJosephPorter
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by pfrattaliView Post

Does God Really Exist?

Do you doubt the existence of a Supreme Intelligent Being?
Think logically:
Are there not laws of conservation of Energy governing the universe? Remember, Energy cannot be created nor destroyed (#1 & #2 laws of thermodynamics). You can only change its state. Through logic then, we can conclude that Energy had no beginning (cannot be created) and will never end (cannot be destroyed). In other words, ENERGY IS ETERNAL. Do you not think that ENERGY RULES then?

Energy is not eternal, there was no energy before the big bang.

If you believe in the 'BIG BANG' then tell me, how did ENERGY 'appear' out of nowhere? [/quote]

Indeed it did. Anyway, if you are claiming that God created energy, then your God is God of convenience. If you don't understand how something works, you blame it on God. That is no different from the prehistoric man blaming such phenomena as thunder , lightening etc, on God.

Your arguments don't make sense. We don't know what happened before Big Bang, we may some day. And even if we never do, that does not even remotely mean that God exists.
 
Dexter Sinister
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by pfrattaliView Post

Does God Really Exist?

Almost certainly not.
Quote:

Do you doubt the existence of a Supreme Intelligent Being?

Yes, very strongly.
Quote:

Think logically

Okay. You might try it too, and you might try reasoning from true facts instead of vague New Age mystic nonsense like "The vacuum causes energy to flow," which if it means anything at all, is not true. And then there's this bit: "Did you ever stop to think that maybe, just maybe, Energy in its purest form is intelligent/conscious? Do you have proof that it's not? Thus God is PURE INTELLIGENT ENERGY, a PERFECT, UNIVERSALLY CONSCIOUS BEING without flaw." The conclusion in the third sentence doesn't follow from the first two sentences, or anything else that went before them. The form of your argument is that maybe X is true, you can't prove it's not, thus X is true. That's several logical fallacies at once, and the rest of your argument is no better, because it assumes the truth of X, which you have not established. It's also clear that you don't understand much basic physics. You'll have to do better than that if you want to convince anybody with an argument from physics.
 
JLM
#7
There is definitely something out there that is superior to man.........you can call it what you want.........Mother Nature suits me. Somewhere there is definitely a plan.
 
talloola
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

There is definitely something out there that is superior to man.........you can call it what you want.........Mother Nature suits me. Somewhere there is definitely a plan.

I totally agree with you, but the plan isn't about gods,
or angels, when we finally find out, it will be more logical and sensible than that. I'm sorry I'm going to miss
it.
 
JLM
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by talloolaView Post

I totally agree with you, but the plan isn't about gods,
or angels, when we finally find out, it will be more logical and sensible than that. I'm sorry I'm going to miss
it.

I doubt if any of us are going to miss it.
 
dumpthemonarchy
#10
It's either a question of whether g/God exists or she/he was seen in a pudding. How come they never point to something and then say, "Here is our all powerful g/God. The thing is real, come and touch it." Just more salesmen and crap.
 
talloola
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

I doubt if any of us are going to miss it.

we won't have a clue, lets put it that way.

lol
 
SirJosephPorter
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

There is definitely something out there that is superior to man.........you can call it what you want.........Mother Nature suits me. Somewhere there is definitely a plan.

I have no problem calling it Mother Nature (or Gaia). But there definitely is no plan. At least I don't see any plan.
 
JamesPPB
#13
The question is incorrect. The questions "does god or do gods exist?" have never been relevant or of interest for people that believe in God(s). Faith surpasses such irrelevant questions. The question is "Do you believe in God?" And then everyone can tailor their answer to their own standpoint.
If non-believers want to discuss the issue from a purely scientific approach, the question, "Does god exist?" still remains irrelvant, because any discussion is of no interest to believers.
The idea that the existence of a god or gods can be proved or disproved through science or logic only proves one thing i.e. that those who think science can disprove or prove it have a, not understood the nature of faith and b, not understood the nature of science.

James
 
JLM
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by JamesPPBView Post

The question is incorrect. The questions "does god or do gods exist?" have never been relevant or of interest for people that believe in God(s). Faith surpasses such irrelevant questions. The question is "Do you believe in God?" And then everyone can tailor their answer to their own standpoint.
If non-believers want to discuss the issue from a purely scientific approach, the question, "Does god exist?" still remains irrelvant, because any discussion is of no interest to believers.
The idea that the existence of a god or gods can be proved or disproved through science or logic only proves one thing i.e. that those who think science can disprove or prove it have a, not understood the nature of faith and b, not understood the nature of science.

James

I think the only way to really settle this once and for all is to get a respected and proven theologian on the thread.
 
countryboy
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

I think the only way to really settle this once and for all is to get a respected and proven theologian on the thread.

But, I thought we already had an expert on that. And everything else.
 
JLM
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by countryboyView Post

But, I thought we already had an expert on that. And everything else.

I don't know- maybe having a self confessed heathen might be a conflict of interest.
 
countryboy
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

I don't know- maybe having a self confessed heathen might be a conflict of interest.

Yep, that's true. Not to mention a "conflict of logic", and we see that quite consistently.
 
bogdank
#18
Yes! That would be a short answer. For more you can read Perpetuum Mobile: Is there a God? (external - login to view) and Perpetuum Mobile: The Big Bang (external - login to view). Otherwise, Spinoza had to say a lot on the same topic but I'm afraid some people misinterpreted his writings.

BTW, you may rest asure, the God is not an old man at the top of the mountain.
 
lone wolf
#19
Do Spirits exist ... or are they just there if you choose to believe
 
SirJosephPorter
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

I think the only way to really settle this once and for all is to get a respected and proven theologian on the thread.

And what makes you think that everybody (or anybody) will accept his pearls of wisdom as the Gospel truth?
 
SirJosephPorter
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by countryboyView Post

But, I thought we already had an expert on that. And everything else.

Indeed you do.
 
JLM
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by lone wolfView Post

Do Spirits exist ... or are they just there if you choose to believe

Beats me - I've never seen a ghost but I sure as hell don't doubt those who have.
 
SirJosephPorter
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

I don't know- maybe having a self confessed heathen might be a conflict of interest.

And a theologian won't be?
 
lone wolf
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by SirJosephPorterView Post

Indeed you do.

Conceited much?
 
SirJosephPorter
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by bogdankView Post

Yes! That would be a short answer. For more you can read Perpetuum Mobile: Is there a God? (external - login to view) and Perpetuum Mobile: The Big Bang (external - login to view). Otherwise, Spinoza had to say a lot on the same topic but I'm afraid some people misinterpreted his writings.

BTW, you may rest asure, the God is not an old man at the top of the mountain.

Then is she a gorgeous young blond? At least I hope so.
 
lone wolf
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by SirJosephPorterView Post

Then is she a gorgeous young blond? At least I hope so.

Why? You're an Athiest. She'd be way beyond your league
 
JLM
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by SirJosephPorterView Post

And what makes you think that everybody (or anybody) will accept his pearls of wisdom as the Gospel truth?

Unlike you who seems to have no respect for those who have more knowledge than you, I realize that most people know more than I do about certain things - religion is not a subject that I profess to know much about, so I'm inclined to listen to experts in the field. I think your close mindedness and arrogance is obvious to most people.
 
SirJosephPorter
#28
Quote:

Unlike you who seems to have no respect for those who have more knowledge than you, I realize that most people know more than I do about certain things - religion is not a subject that I profess to know much about, so I'm inclined to listen to experts in the field.

A theologian starts with the wrong premise, that God exists, and he (the theologian) knows the nature and shape, form of God.

Since I don't believe in God, I wouldn't believe anything a theologian says. And I suspect neither would anybody who disagrees with him.

Quote:

I think your close mindedness and arrogance is obvious to most people.

Really. Hardly my problem, is it? But you are right about close mindedness, I have a closed mind when it comes to God. I have decided after careful consideration that God doesn't exist.

I am open to being convinced of existence of God, but I really cannot think of any argument, any proof anyone can put forth that will convince me.
 
lone wolf
#29
Who really cares, Porter? Heaven is a place without you ... just as it was meant to be.
 
AnnaG
#30
Sir Porker is soo funny sometimes.

Anyway, there's no evidence of gods existence and obviously there's no evidence of non-existence either, so no-one can say conclusively that there are or are not gods.
THAT is the only logical conclusion. And IMO, it does not matter to humans whether there are gods or not because we have no evidence of them. Any guesses as to what gods are like (if there are gods) is moot because we cannot know them and attributing human traits to them is a bit arrogant and ignorant.
 

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