Mighty Intellect
Posts: 1,542 
March 11th, 2007, 07:49 AM
The Canadian Anglican Church is embracing homosexuality as the equivalent of heterosexuality even though all biblical references are against this. The church should set an example for the world not follow the world. Ted byfield has a good column on this topic in the Calgary Sun today.
The Canadian Anglican Church is embracing homosexuality as the equivalent of heterosexuality even though all biblical references are against this. The church should set an example for the world not follow the world. Ted byfield has a good column on this topic in the Calgary Sun today.
Steven Hawking's Hero
Posts: 6,445 
March 11th, 2007, 09:44 AM
Walter
Looks like the majority rules - and you disagree with the majority.
If you have been a lifelong member do you really believe that one issue is just cause for walking away?
Seems a bit nit picky to me. "Gonna take my faith and go home"....
If you aren't affected in your personal life by homosexuality - what's the problem.
Your personal belief is not threatened and your personal worship can continue unabated.
Walter
Looks like the majority rules - and you disagree with the majority.
If you have been a lifelong member do you really believe that one issue is just cause for walking away?
Seems a bit nit picky to me. "Gonna take my faith and go home"....
If you aren't affected in your personal life by homosexuality - what's the problem.
Your personal belief is not threatened and your personal worship can continue unabated.
The Padre
Posts: 4,558
Location: Ontario
Location: Ontario
March 11th, 2007, 10:13 AM
The Communion has departed the faith years ago, saddly to say
Quoting Walter
There is an alternative, praise God! A viable and growing "breakaway" body under the aegis of the Traditional Anglican communion now exists. In Canada there is the Anglican Catholic Church. Search them up on the web. BCP, male-only priests and traditional Anglican(catholic) doctrines.
The Canadian Anglican Church is embracing homosexuality as the equivalent of heterosexuality even though all biblical references are against this. The church should set an example for the world not follow the world. Ted byfield has a good column on this topic in the Calgary Sun today.
The Communion has departed the faith years ago, saddly to say
Knows No Bounds
Posts: 3,154
March 11th, 2007, 10:17 AM
The traditional church is wrestling with many issues. How much should it bend? If indeed, there is a real God, and the Bible is the real word of this God, how far from the path can the church stray? It's the usual catch-22. You can't please everyone. And the essential question remains: who must be pleased first?
The traditional church is wrestling with many issues. How much should it bend? If indeed, there is a real God, and the Bible is the real word of this God, how far from the path can the church stray? It's the usual catch-22. You can't please everyone. And the essential question remains: who must be pleased first?
Hawkings former plumber
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March 11th, 2007, 01:33 PM
The church is of the world Walter, it has no power to change that, even should it exist for another thousand years it won't scratch the paint on that law of nature.
The church is of the world Walter, it has no power to change that, even should it exist for another thousand years it won't scratch the paint on that law of nature.
Newbie
Posts: 1
March 11th, 2007, 04:00 PM
Walter-There are 40 passages in the bible that refer to poverty and only one that ostensibly refers to homosexuality (however, to the chagrin of most who scream this argument that word is NEVER used). By this reasoning, God would appear to be more concerned with the poverty issue. Soooooo, why aren't you? All this time and effort could be well spent, let's say, delivering groceries to your impoverished brethren. Trust me, it feels good to do good and feels a lot better than being so full of hate and rage.
Walter-There are 40 passages in the bible that refer to poverty and only one that ostensibly refers to homosexuality (however, to the chagrin of most who scream this argument that word is NEVER used). By this reasoning, God would appear to be more concerned with the poverty issue. Soooooo, why aren't you? All this time and effort could be well spent, let's say, delivering groceries to your impoverished brethren. Trust me, it feels good to do good and feels a lot better than being so full of hate and rage.
Knows No Bounds
Posts: 3,154
March 11th, 2007, 04:57 PM
Everyone wants to own God. I just don't think He's up for bids. I'm no bible scholar - and few are - but from my time spent with it in the past it's pretty clear it's not gay friendly. If churches wish to stray they do so at their peril. Irrelevance is easily achieved if you bend too much.
Everyone wants to own God. I just don't think He's up for bids. I'm no bible scholar - and few are - but from my time spent with it in the past it's pretty clear it's not gay friendly. If churches wish to stray they do so at their peril. Irrelevance is easily achieved if you bend too much.
Member
Posts: 69
March 11th, 2007, 05:47 PM
I agree with the OP. He is making the right move.
Homosexuality is forbidden by GOD. Period. People cannot change GOD's laws to suit themselves or to be more appealing to the masses.
You shouldn't pray to saints or to Mary- only to GOD.
You shouldn't have idols like the Catholic Church (yes icons are idols).
You cannot re-marry after having been divorced.
There is no requirement for a priest to remain single. The only requirement is that he have one wife only.
The Pope is not the holiest man on earth and is not the closest to GOD. Nor is he the sole representative of JESUS. We should not worship him or bow to him.
There are more books of Holy Scripture than just the ones in the King James Version.
JESUS is the Son of GOD. HE is GOD. HE did not marry. There are no skeletal remains. There is no offspring of JESUS.
This stuff is all elemental. There is no room for interpretation. Yes. Jonah actually physically spent 3 nights in a whale. Yes. Jesus actually rose from the dead. Nothing is impossible to GOD.Yes Noah really existed. There was a flood. Abraham actually spoke to GOD (JESUS actually) face to face.
Yes the devil exists. he, like evil was created by GOD in order that HE would one day destroy it. No evil, no free choice or free will.
All elemental. Anyone who doesn't believe this underestimates the power of GOD. Like I said in another post GOD (JESUS) walked the earth for 33 years (minus baby years of course) and was seen by hundreds of thousands of people. This is not a story. This is a Fact.
Men wrote the Bible? True. Men are imperfect? True. The message of GOD has been lost in translation or changed over time? Hardly. uh...I think GOD can control his own message to his people. If you don't believe this you underestimate the power of GOD.
If you don't believe in JESUS now you wouldn't even if you were there 2000+ years ago and saw him with your own eyes. If you do believe in JESUS now then you would have back then too. Because if you haven't seen yet believe then surely you would if you were to see CHRIST back then.
Like I said. I agree with the Original Poster. You should not water down your faith for anyone. That being said though, it is wrong for anyone to hate homosexual people (and I'm not suggesting this is the case here). Hate the sin not the sinner.
I agree with the OP. He is making the right move.
Homosexuality is forbidden by GOD. Period. People cannot change GOD's laws to suit themselves or to be more appealing to the masses.
You shouldn't pray to saints or to Mary- only to GOD.
You shouldn't have idols like the Catholic Church (yes icons are idols).
You cannot re-marry after having been divorced.
There is no requirement for a priest to remain single. The only requirement is that he have one wife only.
The Pope is not the holiest man on earth and is not the closest to GOD. Nor is he the sole representative of JESUS. We should not worship him or bow to him.
There are more books of Holy Scripture than just the ones in the King James Version.
JESUS is the Son of GOD. HE is GOD. HE did not marry. There are no skeletal remains. There is no offspring of JESUS.
This stuff is all elemental. There is no room for interpretation. Yes. Jonah actually physically spent 3 nights in a whale. Yes. Jesus actually rose from the dead. Nothing is impossible to GOD.Yes Noah really existed. There was a flood. Abraham actually spoke to GOD (JESUS actually) face to face.
Yes the devil exists. he, like evil was created by GOD in order that HE would one day destroy it. No evil, no free choice or free will.
All elemental. Anyone who doesn't believe this underestimates the power of GOD. Like I said in another post GOD (JESUS) walked the earth for 33 years (minus baby years of course) and was seen by hundreds of thousands of people. This is not a story. This is a Fact.
Men wrote the Bible? True. Men are imperfect? True. The message of GOD has been lost in translation or changed over time? Hardly. uh...I think GOD can control his own message to his people. If you don't believe this you underestimate the power of GOD.
If you don't believe in JESUS now you wouldn't even if you were there 2000+ years ago and saw him with your own eyes. If you do believe in JESUS now then you would have back then too. Because if you haven't seen yet believe then surely you would if you were to see CHRIST back then.
Like I said. I agree with the Original Poster. You should not water down your faith for anyone. That being said though, it is wrong for anyone to hate homosexual people (and I'm not suggesting this is the case here). Hate the sin not the sinner.
Time Out
Posts: 1,651
March 11th, 2007, 06:01 PM
I agree with the OP also.
We do NOT change our beliefs with the times.
That become hypocritical, just because some of our beliefs are contreversial we don't change to please the masses.
Thats why I respect the RC church, no matter what day of age it is on earth, they never change to fit the tone of society, they stick to the Bible and do not change.
I see this alot in the United Church of Canada... the worst church IMO..
You do not change the word of God to suit your preferences.
One of the main reasons I am considering the RC church, is they never change with the times.
I agree with the OP also.
We do NOT change our beliefs with the times.
That become hypocritical, just because some of our beliefs are contreversial we don't change to please the masses.
Thats why I respect the RC church, no matter what day of age it is on earth, they never change to fit the tone of society, they stick to the Bible and do not change.
I see this alot in the United Church of Canada... the worst church IMO..
You do not change the word of God to suit your preferences.
One of the main reasons I am considering the RC church, is they never change with the times.
Knows No Bounds
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March 11th, 2007, 06:11 PM
Would you in your apparent Biblical literalism (Jonah in the whale, the global flood, stuff like that) support putting homosexuals to death for their sexual orientation? Stoning adulterers to death? Murdering people who plant two different crops in the same field, or wear clothes made of two different kinds of fibres, or who work on the sabbath? The Old Testament's perfectly clear that the correct answer to all those is yes. There are something over 600 such prescriptions for correct behaviour in Leviticus and Deuteronomy, many of which, like those examples, would get you into serious trouble with the law in any civilized country. I don't think you've actually read and understood the book.
Quoting Lithp
Leviticus seems pretty clear that we should hate the sinner too, or we should at least think badly enough of him to kill him. Leviticus 20:13 "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death;their blood shall be upon them." I'd agree at least that there's no room for interpretation there, nor is there any context around that verse that would mitigate it.
People cannot change GOD's laws to suit themselves or to be more appealing to the masses.
...
There is no room for interpretation.
...
Anyone who doesn't believe this underestimates the power of GOD.
...
That being said though, it is wrong for anyone to hate homosexual people (and I'm not suggesting this is the case here). Hate the sin not the sinner.
...
There is no room for interpretation.
...
Anyone who doesn't believe this underestimates the power of GOD.
...
That being said though, it is wrong for anyone to hate homosexual people (and I'm not suggesting this is the case here). Hate the sin not the sinner.
Would you in your apparent Biblical literalism (Jonah in the whale, the global flood, stuff like that) support putting homosexuals to death for their sexual orientation? Stoning adulterers to death? Murdering people who plant two different crops in the same field, or wear clothes made of two different kinds of fibres, or who work on the sabbath? The Old Testament's perfectly clear that the correct answer to all those is yes. There are something over 600 such prescriptions for correct behaviour in Leviticus and Deuteronomy, many of which, like those examples, would get you into serious trouble with the law in any civilized country. I don't think you've actually read and understood the book.
Knows No Bounds
Posts: 2,669
Location: California
Location: California
March 11th, 2007, 06:12 PM
Quoting westmanguy
Of course we do. The Bible allows for slave ownership. We don't, cause the majority of us feel it's wrong. The Bible tells you not to wear clothes of blended crops. We do all the time and don't think twice about it because the majority thinks it's not a big deal. The Bible says I shouldn't enter a church with my head uncovered, but I have and no one seemed to mind. The Bible itself has contradictions. We take what we want from it and discard the rest. That's fine if it works for you, but it's silly to pretend our version of Christianity hasn't changed. It has, and it will continue to change. Even the RC church practically accepts change, even if it hasn't officially done so. They still technically don't allow birth control, but when was the last time you saw one of them excommunicated for using it? They recognize the practicality of the issue.
We do NOT change our beliefs with the times.
That become hypocritical, just because some of our beliefs are contreversial we don't change to please the masses.
.
That become hypocritical, just because some of our beliefs are contreversial we don't change to please the masses.
.
Knows No Bounds
Posts: 2,669
Location: California
Location: California
March 11th, 2007, 06:14 PM
Quoting Dexter Sinister
Dangit, I have to work tonight! Please don't stone me!!! Us nurses have to work at least one Sunday a month and two weekends a month at my job. It isn't my fault!
Would you in your apparent Biblical literalism (Jonah in the whale, the global flood, stuff like that) support putting homosexuals to death for their sexual orientation? Stoning adulterers to death? Murdering people who plant two different crops in the same field, or wear clothes made of two different kinds of fibres, or who work on the sabbath? The Old Testament's perfectly clear that the correct answer to all those is yes. There are something over 600 such prescriptions for correct behaviour in Leviticus and Deuteronomy, many of which, like those examples, would get you into serious trouble with the law in any civilized country. I don't think you've actually read and understood the book.
Knows No Bounds
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Location: 50° 30' N, 104° 38' W
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March 11th, 2007, 06:32 PM
But Walter and Lithp and westmanguy might, if they're consistent in their literalism. But they won't be, they're just cherry-picking things that suit their prejudices and using Biblical authority to avoid having to justify themselves.
Quoting tracy
I certainly wouldn't, not even for adultery (which apparently only women can be guilty of in the OT).
Please don't stone me!!!
But Walter and Lithp and westmanguy might, if they're consistent in their literalism. But they won't be, they're just cherry-picking things that suit their prejudices and using Biblical authority to avoid having to justify themselves.
Member
Posts: 69
March 11th, 2007, 06:34 PM
Nope. Not correct. When CHRIST came he gave us a new way of worshiping and atoning for our evil deeds. HE became the sacrificial lamb. Do we still sacrifice animals today? No (although some cultures still do). We no longer have to stone anyone. We no longer have to worry about mixing wool and thread in our garments. We no longer have to stone people who work on the sabbath day.
These challenges you put forth were put forth over 2000 years ago to GOD himself. HE answered them already. You say I haven't read or understood the book but I say it is you who havent. The questions you ask me now were answered by JESUS himself many centuries ago.
In LEviticus and Deuteronomy people were forbidden to eat pork or shell fish. Is this true today? No. JESUS also answered that question too. And many other challenges based on ancient thinking.
SO. Have things CHANGED since the time of the Old Testament? Yes. Did mankind change them? No. Did GOD? Yes. Do we have the authority to change them as I said in my OP? No.
This Old testament argument about how people conduct themselves has not been valid for around 2000 years! The argument is defunct. I refer you to the teachings of JESUS for the answers.
There was a point in time when we could marry our sisters. Is this the case today? No. GOD told us when it was no longer necessary or acceptable to have incest. That is Change is it not? Change ordained by GOD alone.
Does that mean we can discount the teaching of the Old Testament? Hardly. So then how do we embrace both the ancient and modern teachings? That's up to you. I suggest you read Hebrews as a starting point.
I have no problem integrating the Old with the New. GOD knows we are smart enough to think about the whole picture. There is no inconsistency with GOD.
Nope. Not correct. When CHRIST came he gave us a new way of worshiping and atoning for our evil deeds. HE became the sacrificial lamb. Do we still sacrifice animals today? No (although some cultures still do). We no longer have to stone anyone. We no longer have to worry about mixing wool and thread in our garments. We no longer have to stone people who work on the sabbath day.
These challenges you put forth were put forth over 2000 years ago to GOD himself. HE answered them already. You say I haven't read or understood the book but I say it is you who havent. The questions you ask me now were answered by JESUS himself many centuries ago.
In LEviticus and Deuteronomy people were forbidden to eat pork or shell fish. Is this true today? No. JESUS also answered that question too. And many other challenges based on ancient thinking.
SO. Have things CHANGED since the time of the Old Testament? Yes. Did mankind change them? No. Did GOD? Yes. Do we have the authority to change them as I said in my OP? No.
This Old testament argument about how people conduct themselves has not been valid for around 2000 years! The argument is defunct. I refer you to the teachings of JESUS for the answers.
There was a point in time when we could marry our sisters. Is this the case today? No. GOD told us when it was no longer necessary or acceptable to have incest. That is Change is it not? Change ordained by GOD alone.
Does that mean we can discount the teaching of the Old Testament? Hardly. So then how do we embrace both the ancient and modern teachings? That's up to you. I suggest you read Hebrews as a starting point.
I have no problem integrating the Old with the New. GOD knows we are smart enough to think about the whole picture. There is no inconsistency with GOD.
Knows No Bounds
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March 11th, 2007, 06:57 PM
Nice try.
Matthew 5:18-19
Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or tittle shall nowise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven.
Luke 16:17
It is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.
Apparently all the Old Testament laws are in full force until the end of time.
On the other hand, maybe not.
Luke16:16
The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of heaven is preached.
Romans 6:14
Ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Romans 10:4
Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
Galatians 5:18
But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Take your pick.
Nice try.
Matthew 5:18-19
Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or tittle shall nowise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven.
Luke 16:17
It is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.
Apparently all the Old Testament laws are in full force until the end of time.
On the other hand, maybe not.
Luke16:16
The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of heaven is preached.
Romans 6:14
Ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Romans 10:4
Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
Galatians 5:18
But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Take your pick.
