May 8th, 2008, 04:11 PM
I don't even think you can separate it by resources consumed in one nation by it's citizens. Manufacturing centers like Southeast Asia are consuming more resources than they can sustainably use, not just because of their population density and their own consumption of resources, but also to meet the demands of people living out of their borders. That's what you get when you complete a poll that fails to recognize both government action and industry. A corporation's footprint is equally as important, and goes beyond the borders of the country where the headquarters, or even distribution centers are found. It extends to it's world-wide base of customers.
How do you divvy up the weight when we can offshore our behaviour? Buying a pair of sneakers made in China from the local Wal-mart or athletic store, with rubber produced in Indonesia, and cotton coming from Pakistan is adding to that nations footprint. But it isn't the behaviour of Chinese, Indonesian, or Pakistani citizens who are consuming that resource. It's our consumption patterns, and various government trade agreements that contribute to the resource usage that isn't properly accounted for, which really underscores the complexity of a global market, and the failures of simple analysis.
This is an equally good parallel to the world grain fiasco, and how consumption patterns elsewhere end up hitting those with the least amount of responsibility in the most punitive fashion.
I don't even think you can separate it by resources consumed in one nation by it's citizens. Manufacturing centers like Southeast Asia are consuming more resources than they can sustainably use, not just because of their population density and their own consumption of resources, but also to meet the demands of people living out of their borders. That's what you get when you complete a poll that fails to recognize both government action and industry. A corporation's footprint is equally as important, and goes beyond the borders of the country where the headquarters, or even distribution centers are found. It extends to it's world-wide base of customers.
How do you divvy up the weight when we can offshore our behaviour? Buying a pair of sneakers made in China from the local Wal-mart or athletic store, with rubber produced in Indonesia, and cotton coming from Pakistan is adding to that nations footprint. But it isn't the behaviour of Chinese, Indonesian, or Pakistani citizens who are consuming that resource. It's our consumption patterns, and various government trade agreements that contribute to the resource usage that isn't properly accounted for, which really underscores the complexity of a global market, and the failures of simple analysis.
This is an equally good parallel to the world grain fiasco, and how consumption patterns elsewhere end up hitting those with the least amount of responsibility in the most punitive fashion.
Mighty Intellect
Posts: 1,658 
Location: Alberta, Canada
Location: Alberta, Canada
May 8th, 2008, 04:22 PM
over paid technicians? How do you figure that?
Quoting Stretch
if our "elected" officials had the guts to tell the oil companies to clean up their fuel, then we wouldnt have the need for "emissions" crap on our vehicles....but then there would be no taxes for our "elected" officials via gst/pst etc on everything from "resetting" that damn pesky "check engine" light to a catalytic convertor....not to mention our over paid "teknitions" with their 'lectric 'putors.........
over paid technicians? How do you figure that?
Super Genius
Posts: 1,327
Location: Canada
Location: Canada
May 8th, 2008, 04:30 PM
70 bucks an hr is overpaid in my book......afterall, the have 'putors that tells them whats wrong, all they have to do now is unbolt/unscrew/unplug it and replace it....back in the good ol' days teknitions were called mechanics and a good mechanic could tell what was wrong just by listening, his "diagnostic tool" was his ear and his mind.......go in and ask a teknition what a carby is........
70 bucks an hr is overpaid in my book......afterall, the have 'putors that tells them whats wrong, all they have to do now is unbolt/unscrew/unplug it and replace it....back in the good ol' days teknitions were called mechanics and a good mechanic could tell what was wrong just by listening, his "diagnostic tool" was his ear and his mind.......go in and ask a teknition what a carby is........
Mighty Intellect
Posts: 1,658
Location: Alberta, Canada
Location: Alberta, Canada
May 8th, 2008, 04:44 PM
You know mechanics getting 70 bucks an hour? or do you know shops charging 70 bucks an hour.... there is a difference you know.
Quoting Stretch
70 bucks an hr is overpaid in my book......afterall, the have 'putors that tells them whats wrong, all they have to do now is unbolt/unscrew/unplug it and replace it....back in the good ol' days teknitions were called mechanics and a good mechanic could tell what was wrong just by listening, his "diagnostic tool" was his ear and his mind.......go in and ask a teknition what a carby is........
You know mechanics getting 70 bucks an hour? or do you know shops charging 70 bucks an hour.... there is a difference you know.
Super Genius
Posts: 1,327
Location: Canada
Location: Canada
May 8th, 2008, 05:05 PM
well all I know is I can strip down to a bare chasis my ol' effie and rebuild her from the ground up myself........in my back yard, with minimal taxes going to the many blood sucking parasites we call government.
I dont care who charges what be it a shop or a tek...its what we pay as the end consumer that counts, and 95 bucks an our is what a kia owner pays for a service, which, by the way I do myself on my ol' effie
well all I know is I can strip down to a bare chasis my ol' effie and rebuild her from the ground up myself........in my back yard, with minimal taxes going to the many blood sucking parasites we call government.
I dont care who charges what be it a shop or a tek...its what we pay as the end consumer that counts, and 95 bucks an our is what a kia owner pays for a service, which, by the way I do myself on my ol' effie
Mighty Intellect
Posts: 1,658
Location: Alberta, Canada
Location: Alberta, Canada
May 8th, 2008, 05:25 PM
and how is that shop rate exessive? Do you know what you pay for a plumber? A gassfitter? A furnace repair tech? Your doctor?
Do you realize how much school these mechanics need to go to EVERY year to keep up with technology? Do you realize how much the average tech has to spend on tools and diagnostic equipment?
Quoting Stretch
well all I know is I can strip down to a bare chasis my ol' effie and rebuild her from the ground up myself........in my back yard, with minimal taxes going to the many blood sucking parasites we call government.
I dont care who charges what be it a shop or a tek...its what we pay as the end consumer that counts, and 95 bucks an our is what a kia owner pays for a service, which, by the way I do myself on my ol' effie
I dont care who charges what be it a shop or a tek...its what we pay as the end consumer that counts, and 95 bucks an our is what a kia owner pays for a service, which, by the way I do myself on my ol' effie
and how is that shop rate exessive? Do you know what you pay for a plumber? A gassfitter? A furnace repair tech? Your doctor?
Do you realize how much school these mechanics need to go to EVERY year to keep up with technology? Do you realize how much the average tech has to spend on tools and diagnostic equipment?
Genius
Posts: 841
Location: Lala Land
Location: Lala Land
May 8th, 2008, 05:37 PM
Well interestingly enough... if you wanted to, you count how many cars Stretch could have purchased since 1979 and didn't. How many cars didn't end up in some scrapyard somewhere seeping crap into the earth? That also leads to other obvious insight into Stretch, rather than throwing out a hundred toasters and other small appliances, he probably has those still running.
How many cigarette butts do you guys throw on the ground? That's WAS my worst mistake and I try really really hard not to do that anymore.
I am probably a disaster from the earth's point of view.... I think we all would be, recyclers, bulk buyers or not. Regardless of our best intentions.....we have destroyed the planet and there is no taking it back. People still use electricity like there is no tomorrow, gigantic displays of lights for Christmas, for advertising, for the hell of it. It's pointless and people honestly don't care...well they do until there is a chance they may not get their SUV, their Christmas tree, and " I can't wait to get my gas guzzling stinking boat in the water up north this year", cause God knows (figure of speech) we want to spread the poison everywhere.
Well interestingly enough... if you wanted to, you count how many cars Stretch could have purchased since 1979 and didn't. How many cars didn't end up in some scrapyard somewhere seeping crap into the earth? That also leads to other obvious insight into Stretch, rather than throwing out a hundred toasters and other small appliances, he probably has those still running.
How many cigarette butts do you guys throw on the ground? That's WAS my worst mistake and I try really really hard not to do that anymore.
I am probably a disaster from the earth's point of view.... I think we all would be, recyclers, bulk buyers or not. Regardless of our best intentions.....we have destroyed the planet and there is no taking it back. People still use electricity like there is no tomorrow, gigantic displays of lights for Christmas, for advertising, for the hell of it. It's pointless and people honestly don't care...well they do until there is a chance they may not get their SUV, their Christmas tree, and " I can't wait to get my gas guzzling stinking boat in the water up north this year", cause God knows (figure of speech) we want to spread the poison everywhere.
Super Genius
Posts: 1,327
Location: Canada
Location: Canada
May 8th, 2008, 05:49 PM
well sure, but if we didnt have all the "enviromental" crap that is layed on us we wouldnt need all the diagnostic equipment.
plumbers and such dont even need papers to say they can do their job, unlike their conterparts in Australia...I'm s'posed to have a "gold card" and to have done a course on painting, to paint a house down there. plumbing I can do, electrical I can do, gas fitting I can do...dome veterenary stuff b4....all self taught.... I'm nothing special, just a handyman who prefers to learn and do things himself...I hate giving the gov any more than they deserve...and to date, the deserve phuk all!
My issue is that we have been conned into paying thru the nose for an issue(enviromental) that doesnt exist, well, not as a man made issue, anyway.....
Quoting gerryh
and how is that shop rate exessive? Do you know what you pay for a plumber? A gassfitter? A furnace repair tech? Your doctor?
Do you realize how much school these mechanics need to go to EVERY year to keep up with technology? Do you realize how much the average tech has to spend on tools and diagnostic equipment?
Do you realize how much school these mechanics need to go to EVERY year to keep up with technology? Do you realize how much the average tech has to spend on tools and diagnostic equipment?
well sure, but if we didnt have all the "enviromental" crap that is layed on us we wouldnt need all the diagnostic equipment.
plumbers and such dont even need papers to say they can do their job, unlike their conterparts in Australia...I'm s'posed to have a "gold card" and to have done a course on painting, to paint a house down there. plumbing I can do, electrical I can do, gas fitting I can do...dome veterenary stuff b4....all self taught.... I'm nothing special, just a handyman who prefers to learn and do things himself...I hate giving the gov any more than they deserve...and to date, the deserve phuk all!
My issue is that we have been conned into paying thru the nose for an issue(enviromental) that doesnt exist, well, not as a man made issue, anyway.....
Super Genius
Posts: 1,327
Location: Canada
Location: Canada
May 8th, 2008, 05:55 PM
actually, if your toaster should "blow", it can be fixed very easily by twisting the "blown" element together, mine's still going.
Had a washing machine that blew a belt and fixed it with some rope, she worked for quite some time till the rope went...applied more rope.....just because its old, doesnt mean it cant be fixed/rebuilt.....dispite what "marketing" brainwashing tells you
actually, if your toaster should "blow", it can be fixed very easily by twisting the "blown" element together, mine's still going.
Had a washing machine that blew a belt and fixed it with some rope, she worked for quite some time till the rope went...applied more rope.....just because its old, doesnt mean it cant be fixed/rebuilt.....dispite what "marketing" brainwashing tells you
Mighty Intellect
Posts: 1,658
Location: Alberta, Canada
Location: Alberta, Canada
May 8th, 2008, 06:01 PM
even without the "environmental" crap, the vehicles would STILL be more computerized. They get better milage and more horsepower from a smaller displacement engine due to better fuel management and closer tolerances all the way around. If the "environment" was the be all and end all for automotive choices, then we would have a hell of alot more electic cars and NO SUV's. Fuel economy without a loss in HP is the biggest seller...not how clean the damn tailpipe is.
Quoting Stretch
well sure, but if we didnt have all the "enviromental" crap that is layed on us we wouldnt need all the diagnostic equipment.
plumbers and such dont even need papers to say they can do their job, unlike their conterparts in Australia...I'm s'posed to have a "gold card" and to have done a course on painting, to paint a house down there. plumbing I can do, electrical I can do, gas fitting I can do...dome veterenary stuff b4....all self taught.... I'm nothing special, just a handyman who prefers to learn and do things himself...I hate giving the gov any more than they deserve...and to date, the deserve phuk all!
My issue is that we have been conned into paying thru the nose for an issue(enviromental) that doesnt exist, well, not as a man made issue, anyway.....
plumbers and such dont even need papers to say they can do their job, unlike their conterparts in Australia...I'm s'posed to have a "gold card" and to have done a course on painting, to paint a house down there. plumbing I can do, electrical I can do, gas fitting I can do...dome veterenary stuff b4....all self taught.... I'm nothing special, just a handyman who prefers to learn and do things himself...I hate giving the gov any more than they deserve...and to date, the deserve phuk all!
My issue is that we have been conned into paying thru the nose for an issue(enviromental) that doesnt exist, well, not as a man made issue, anyway.....
even without the "environmental" crap, the vehicles would STILL be more computerized. They get better milage and more horsepower from a smaller displacement engine due to better fuel management and closer tolerances all the way around. If the "environment" was the be all and end all for automotive choices, then we would have a hell of alot more electic cars and NO SUV's. Fuel economy without a loss in HP is the biggest seller...not how clean the damn tailpipe is.
Super Genius
Posts: 1,327
Location: Canada
Location: Canada
May 8th, 2008, 06:34 PM
there is a guy in southern queensland that has his car , motorbike and lawn mower running on water...he was threatened, actually, the lives of hi 2 kids was threatened if he didnt pull his head in! so dont give me any **** about 'putors and such being needed for "economy"
Quoting gerryh
WHY would they??? there is technology out there that has vehicles running at 100 plus mpg that has been swallowed up by those in control and "disappeared"
even without the "environmental" crap, the vehicles would STILL be more computerized. They get better milage and more horsepower from a smaller displacement engine due to better fuel management and closer tolerances all the way around. If the "environment" was the be all and end all for automotive choices, then we would have a hell of alot more electic cars and NO SUV's. Fuel economy without a loss in HP is the biggest seller...not how clean the damn tailpipe is.
there is a guy in southern queensland that has his car , motorbike and lawn mower running on water...he was threatened, actually, the lives of hi 2 kids was threatened if he didnt pull his head in! so dont give me any **** about 'putors and such being needed for "economy"
May 8th, 2008, 07:25 PM
Quoting Stretch
It's really funny when someone who says there is no environmental issue makes such statements. Some of the same focussed group responses that tell you there is no environmental issue, fight tooth and nail as lobbyists to prevent any legislation on fuel economy standards. They successfully neutered California's CARB requirements for zero emission vehicles (better than 100 mpg fuel economy,) California being a state that tends to set the bar that other states follow due to their special status.
WHY would they??? there is technology out there that has vehicles running at 100 plus mpg that has been swallowed up by those in control and "disappeared"
Super Genius
Posts: 1,327
Location: Canada
Location: Canada
May 8th, 2008, 08:14 PM
Quoting Tonington
show me where i said there were no enviromental issues please
It's really funny when someone who says there is no environmental issue makes such statements. Some of the same focussed group responses that tell you there is no environmental issue, fight tooth and nail as lobbyists to prevent any legislation on fuel economy standards. They successfully neutered California's CARB requirements for zero emission vehicles (better than 100 mpg fuel economy,) California being a state that tends to set the bar that other states follow due to their special status.
Mass'Debater
Posts: 2,764
Location: Atlantic Canada
Location: Atlantic Canada
May 8th, 2008, 08:26 PM
Do my consumption habbits hurt the environment?
Nope, since I was created on this earth, by products and resources from this earth, and I grow, eat, digest, use and do everything and anything which also has been created on this earth, everthing in which I do is natural to the course of the Earth.... if the earth is being hurt by one of its own creations made from its own natural resources, then that's the earths fault for not wiping us out a long time ago.
But in seriousness, no, I believe I consume far less energy and resources then most on the planet.... perhaps less then many in here.... simply because I'm too poor to have a big SUV, seven kids and all that good stuff...... give me time though.
Do my consumption habbits hurt the environment?
Nope, since I was created on this earth, by products and resources from this earth, and I grow, eat, digest, use and do everything and anything which also has been created on this earth, everthing in which I do is natural to the course of the Earth.... if the earth is being hurt by one of its own creations made from its own natural resources, then that's the earths fault for not wiping us out a long time ago.
But in seriousness, no, I believe I consume far less energy and resources then most on the planet.... perhaps less then many in here.... simply because I'm too poor to have a big SUV, seven kids and all that good stuff...... give me time though.
May 8th, 2008, 11:58 PM
Quoting Stretch
show me where i said there were no enviromental issues please
Quoting Stretch
That is where you said there was no issue, doesn't exist. Is it all particular environmental issues associated with humans that you mean/believe don't exist, or perhaps is it very specific ones you mean? This thread is about consumption, and it is a very real problem.
... for an issue(enviromental) that doesnt exist, well, not as a man made issue, anyway.....
