Has Iggy lost his Groove?

Trex
#1
Iggy has got to be doing some very serious calculating these days.

On other thread about a Liberal forced election this spring I predicted that Iggy would not have the "stones" to force an election this spring or this fall.
50% right so far.

The question becomes did Iggy pass up a prime opportunity to unseat the perennially unlikable and frigid Harper?
Probably so I figure.
Scott Reid advised Iggy that he had a small window of opportunity to trigger an early election.
New party leaders always get a short bounce in the polls because they are fresh and new and seem different and interesting.
Then the bloom fades in the public's eyes and they become just another expedient politician, just like all the others.
So now the Libs have once again dropped in the polls to slightly under the Cons.
And Iggy gets to do the trained seal thing once again when the house sits.
That's gotta start to chafe.

David Miller, the left wing mayor of Toronto is panning out to be a total disaster.
Double digit property tax increases and garbage as far as the eye can see.
He is panning out to be something like the old Bob Rae except on a municipal level. And when the left wing melts down in the 403 that could end up hurting Iggy in more than a few Ontario federal riding's.

Next up is McSquinty.
Looks like massive provincial tax increases coming down the pipeline for the folks in Ontario.
This harmonized sales tax thing looks like a great opportunity for the provincial Libs to stick it to the taxpayer well and truly.
Its true, of course, that Flaherty advised McSquinty to harmonize taxes in Ontario, but hey, its McSquinty's baby.
Anyway who in their right mind would believe anything Flaherty said?
McSquinty is gonna have to wear increased unemployment and increased taxes in Ontario.
And that too may shift a few undecided votes towards the federal Cons in Ontario.

And Iggy cannot afford to loose a single seat in the Liberal heartland.

South of us in the US, Obama is dropping like a stone in the popularity polls.
From an 80% approval rate he has dropped to slightly less than 50%.
Personally I think that it was unavoidable as Americans had completely unrealistic expectations about Obama.
The guy just didn't have a magic wand and its not fair to expect him to snap his fingers and fix a world wide recession.
So reality sets in south of line.
And now Obama has rammed through cap and trade which he freely admits is going to result in large cost of living and tax increases for Americans.
And its definitely designed to totally screw Canada.
So I guess time will tell how the shift to the political left and potentially protectionist trade practices will pan out in the States.
But if the Obama administration increases taxes and does its best to welsh on trade agreements with Canada I do not see that working in Iggy's favour.
What with his great American connections and linkages and all.

On a national level Canada will probably have bottomed out recession wise and slowly be turning the corner towards better times.
Canadians will probably be resistant to turfing a PM who appears to be slowly leading us out of the the bad times.
And that could leave Iggy sitting high and dry for a long time.
Iggy's last little bout of fussing and squealing about a few Conservative budget details made Iggy look petulant and ineffective.
And polling confirmed it.

So how long can Iggy sit on his hands, errr flippers.
And let Bob Rae stick subtle little knives in his back on an ongoing basis?
And what about his six year pledge where he returns home to the States if denied
the crown?
Lord knows most Canadians would probably punt Harper in a flash given a decent alternative.
But as cold and isolated as Harper is I am just not sure Iggy is the man for the job either.

Trex
 
Liberalman
Avatar
#2

The numbers in parenthesis denote the change from the last Nanos Omnibus Survey completed in May 2009.
Committed Voters - Canada (N=781, MoE ± 3.5%, 19 times out of 20)

Liberal Party 36.3% (-1)
Conservative Party 32.2% (NC)
NDP 16.8% (+1)
BQ 9.8% (+2)
Green Party 4.8% (-2)
(*Note: Undecided 22.2%)

Harper Impression Question: Do you have a positive, somewhat positive, neutral, somewhat negative or negative impression of Stephen Harper?

Net Impression Scores*

Canada: -14.8
Atlantic Canada: -28.6
Quebec: -33.3
Ontario: -13.9
Prairies: +9.1
British Columbia: -8.4

Ignatieff Impression Question: Do you have a positive, somewhat positive, neutral, somewhat negative or negative impression of Michael Ignatieff?

Net Impression Scores*

Canada: +5.2
Atlantic Canada: +18.0
Quebec: +12.9
Ontario: +5.6
Prairies: -11.1
British Columbia: +4.5

*Note: The net impression score is calculated by subtracting those who have a negative impression from those who have a positive impression.

Feel free to forward this e-mail. Any use of the poll should identify the source as the latest "Nanos Poll."



 
Trex
#3
Quote: Originally Posted by LiberalmanView Post

The numbers in parenthesis denote the change from the last Nanos Omnibus Survey completed in May 2009.
Committed Voters - Canada (N=781, MoE ± 3.5%, 19 times out of 20)

Liberal Party 36.3% (-1)
Conservative Party 32.2% (NC)
NDP 16.8% (+1)
BQ 9.8% (+2)
Green Party 4.8% (-2)
(*Note: Undecided 22.2%)

Harper Impression Question: Do you have a positive, somewhat positive, neutral, somewhat negative or negative impression of Stephen Harper?

Net Impression Scores*

Canada: -14.8
Atlantic Canada: -28.6
Quebec: -33.3
Ontario: -13.9
Prairies: +9.1
British Columbia: -8.4

Ignatieff Impression Question: Do you have a positive, somewhat positive, neutral, somewhat negative or negative impression of Michael Ignatieff?

Net Impression Scores*

Canada: +5.2
Atlantic Canada: +18.0
Quebec: +12.9
Ontario: +5.6
Prairies: -11.1
British Columbia: +4.5

*Note: The net impression score is calculated by subtracting those who have a negative impression from those who have a positive impression.

Feel free to forward this e-mail. Any use of the poll should identify the source as the latest "Nanos Poll."

Its now late June.
Your polling is totally outdated.
Its around 34.8% Con
32 or so % Lib.
But whatever.
 
Liberalman
Avatar
#4
Michael Ignatieff did not lose his grove.

Harper came out with a report that was vague.

Michael did say that the people that he talked to said they don’t want a summer election so he came out with a statement that asked four questions and he said that if those questions weren’t answered he would not support the government on the budget estimates which would result in an election.

Harper did the right thing by contacting Ignatieff for a meeting that resulted in three meetings.

Michael got what he wanted and supported the government.

I have a feeling that Abousfian Abdelrazik was part of that deal but I can’t prove it.

Don’t you find it interesting that the Conservative government decided not to appeal the court’s decision that Abousfian Abdelrazik must come back to Canada?

This guy lived in a Canadian embassy in a foreign land because he name was on a no-fly list.

He just about came home earlier this year on a government ministerial passport but this was pulled at the last minute.

The no-fly list only applies to commercial aircraft.

The Harper government could have sent a military plane to pick him up but the conservative government does not hold a high value on Canadian Citizenship.

Michael Ignatieff played it right besides he doesn’t need to call an election because the Liberal party controls the Conservatives.

Harper will probably call the election himself like he did last time.
 
pgs
Free Thinker
Avatar
#5
To funny Liberalman.
Your boy is being toyed with and you spin it as if he is in charge.
I am not well versed in Ontario politics but Trex seemed to put forth
some objective opinions.I feel your dear Michael may be in for a bit
of a rough go.
 
Liberalman
Avatar
#6
pgs

This is why the Conservative government wants an election desperately because in a minority government the opposition controls the government and because of the polls they know the Liberals won’t get a majority and then they can play the game.

The problem with the former leader Dion he didn’t know how to wheel and deal with the government so he looked weak but Ignatieff knows how to do this so the Conservative party has to deal and if they don’t the bills take a long time to go through commitees and the House of Commons and the Senate to get Royal Assent.

Now the Conservatives can pull the plug and go for another election but if they do this the Liberals will get a majority.

Ignatieff is brilliant and Harper knows it
 
Cannuck
No Party Affiliation
Avatar
#7
Quote: Originally Posted by LiberalmanView Post

pgs

This is why the Conservative government wants an election desperately because in a minority government the opposition controls the government ....

Finally a Liberal Party supporter that will accept blame for the massive deficit we expect this year. Most of the others claim it is Harper's fault.
 
taxslave
No Party Affiliation
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#8
I don't think either one of them is competent to run the country. Both are more interested in buying votes in Ontario and Quebec than doing what is right. Both are easterners so are suspect out here.
 
Tonington
Avatar
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by TrexView Post

Its now late June.
Your polling is totally outdated.
Its around 34.8% Con
32 or so % Lib.
But whatever.

But whatever?

The latest Nanos poll (June 17th to June 21st) has the Liberal edge at 36.3 % of likely voters, and the Conservatives at 32.2, with the impression scores still moving favorably for Mike(+5.2 %) and not so much for Steve (-14.8 %).

--
 
Trex
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by ToningtonView Post

But whatever?

The latest Nanos poll (June 17th to June 21st) has the Liberal edge at 36.3 % of likely voters, and the Conservatives at 32.2, with the impression scores still moving favorably for Mike(+5.2 %) and not so much for Steve (-14.8 %).

--

Yes exactly whatever.

June 24-25

Angus-Reid:

Cons - 32%
Libs - 31%
NDP-18%
BQ- 11%
GRN- 7%

Source:--

EKOS:

* Conservatives: 34.8 per cent.
* Liberals: 32.6 per cent.
* NDP: 14.3 per cent.
* Green: 9.3 per cent.
* BQ: 9 per cent.

Source: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story.....62509.html

Trex
 
captain morgan
Bloc Québécois
Avatar
#11
It doesn't really matter what you post Trex - reality or the latest polls are not one the strong points for the die-hard liberal supporters.
 
Francis2004
Avatar
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by TrexView Post

Yes exactly whatever.

June 24-25

Angus-Reid:

Cons - 32%
Libs - 31%
NDP-18%
BQ- 11%
GRN- 7%

Source:--

EKOS:

* Conservatives: 34.8 per cent.
* Liberals: 32.6 per cent.
* NDP: 14.3 per cent.
* Green: 9.3 per cent.
* BQ: 9 per cent.

Source: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story.....62509.html

Trex


Polls are polls.. The Ekos poll, if you bother to read the fine print, was done by voice recognition or pushing a button..

And IF the poll was right both leaders are in trouble with Harper in deeper sh_t..

Job approval Stephen Harper:
  • 34 per cent approve.
  • 46 per cent disapprove.
Michael Ignatieff:
  • 32 per cent approve.
  • 37 per cent disapprove.
Source: EKOS
 
VanIsle
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by taxslaveView Post

I don't think either one of them is competent to run the country. Both are more interested in buying votes in Ontario and Quebec than doing what is right. Both are easterners so are suspect out here.

I agree with you for the most part. Harper knows he doesn't have us either (our island) so we get more phone calls and more mail than we ever wished for, asking us to contribute. They are not likely to get any financial support from anyone who has to give back the OAS pension because they receive a government pension. Give us our full pension and we'll consider voting for and financially supporting the Conservatives. We are conservatives but we will not give them any money until they give ours back. I don't know why anyone would think Ignatieff is brilliant. Loser would fit the bill better.
 
VanIsle
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by Francis2004View Post

Polls are polls.. The Ekos poll, if you bother to read the fine print, was done by voice recognition or pushing a button..

And IF the poll was right both leaders are in trouble with Harper in deeper sh_t..

Job approval Stephen Harper:

  • 34 per cent approve.
  • 46 per cent disapprove.
Michael Ignatieff:
  • 32 per cent approve.
  • 37 per cent disapprove.
Source: EKOS

Right on Francis. Polls are polls and they change daily/hourly.
 
VanIsle
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morganView Post

It doesn't really matter what you post Trex - reality or the latest polls are not one the strong points for the die-hard liberal supporters.

When did you become part of the Bloc?????
 
Tonington
Avatar
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morganView Post

It doesn't really matter what you post Trex - reality or the latest polls are not one the strong points for the die-hard liberal supporters.

Trex said that Liberalman's polls were out of date. So I posted the newest polls from the same polling firm that Liberalman chose to use. It is not really "but whatever", it very much matters.

It's a bit like apples to oranges when you compare different polling firms numbers, from different polling dates, especially when tracking a trend in public opinion.

If he uses the same polling firm over the period, take Ekos, that's much better.
Last edited by Tonington; Jun 28th, 2009 at 02:24 PM..
 
captain morgan
Bloc Québécois
Avatar
#17
Hi Vanisle - I'm just having fun with the 'Bloc' thing.


@ Tonington:

I think that you and I can agree on the notion that the only poll that counts occurs on election day. Over the years, we've all heard the rhetoric that surrounds the polling industry and issues and for one, I no longer pay too much attention to anything they propose or suggest.

Part of the problem lies in the industry itself relative to who is the client or how the questions are phrased... It's not entirely different (in my mind) from someone quoting statistics - if you (as the consumer) are not privy to the modeling, assumptions and underlying variables, the interpretation of the resultant data can vary wildly.
 
missile
Conservative
Avatar
#18
The first time Ig made a threat and then backed down was his END. The man never ever had any groove to speak of.
 
captain morgan
Bloc Québécois
Avatar
#19
You van bet that all of the politicians will rail at Iggy for backing down for his entire tenure as opposition leader. It wouldn't be such a pressing issue under normal circumstances, but the fact that he was so public in his threats and never pulled the trigger will haunt him come election time.
 
JLM
No Party Affiliation
#20
"Groove"? Maybe he's just in the ditch.
 
Ron in Regina
Free Thinker
Avatar
#21
The Groove that Mr. Ignatius has is consistency. Since Mr. Harper first
became the PM, there have been (I believe) 79 confidence motions where
the voters could have been forced back to the polls...and 79/79 times the
Liberal Party has voted along side the Conservatives. Regardless of the
rhetoric, Mr. Ignatius has been consistent with what Mr. Dion has done.



Consistently (and I could very well be wrong here), I believe that the NDP
and the Bloc have voted against the Conservatives 79/79 times in the
79 confidence motions where the voters could have been forced back to
the polls since Mr. Harper became PM. Hmmmm.....
 
Tonington
Avatar
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morganView Post

@ Tonington:

I think that you and I can agree on the notion that the only poll that counts occurs on election day. Over the years, we've all heard the rhetoric that surrounds the polling industry and issues and for one, I no longer pay too much attention to anything they propose or suggest.

Not all issues are put to elections, so no I wouldn't agree with that. While some polls are better than others, no poll is perfect. No poll tries to be perfect. Polls only try to best approximate what the public thinks about issues, which is important to know for policy decisions, for market research, and yes for trying to track election probabilities. It would be very naive to think that the politicians aren't tracking the changes, and adjusting themselves accordingly. They all say they don't, but I'm not buying that.

Some firms are better than others of course, and that's not because of luck. It takes a lot of work to do opinion research well. Angus Reid is probably the best in Canada at tracking elections. They have successfully predicted the eight provincial elections they covered since 2006, and they were the most accurate in this last Federal election.
 
Polygong
#23
I'm still not getting the logic... Canadians don't want an election, Ignatieff makes concessions to ensure that there isn't one... yet he has done the wrong thing???
 
Cannuck
No Party Affiliation
Avatar
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by Ron in ReginaView Post

79/79 times the
Liberal Party has voted along side the Conservatives. Regardless of the
rhetoric, Mr. Ignatius has been consistent with what Mr. Dion has done.

The Libs are only interested in playing games until they think they can win. All this diddling is surprising when you consider that (according to Liberalman) they are in control.
 
Cannuck
No Party Affiliation
Avatar
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by PolygongView Post

I'm still not getting the logic... Canadians don't want an election, Ignatieff makes concessions to ensure that there isn't one... yet he has done the wrong thing???

It's not that making concessions is the wrong thing. It's that drawing a line in the sand and then cratering when Harpo steps over it, is the wrong thing...at least for Iggy and the Libs. It makes him look weak, indecisive and childish. I think it's the best thing for Canadians because it highlights the games that Iggy plays.
 
JLM
No Party Affiliation
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by CannuckView Post

The Libs are only interested in playing games until they think they can win. All this diddling is surprising when you consider that (according to Liberalman) they are in control.

You have that dead right, Cannuck. (Where the hell is S.J.?)
 
pegger
No Party Affiliation
Avatar
#27
What Ignatieff needs to do is:
1) stop all the BS postering - don't show your hand until the last. No demands, no lines in the sand...He started off right (in saying that he would take the weekend to read the report, and decide what to do - unlike Layton that knee jerk reacts to vote no)
2) stick to his guns.

I don't blame him for "caving" as others do - but really, Captain, Ron, Cannuck probably won't vote Liberal in the next election - or any election...so I weigh that when I consider their "complaints" agaisnt Ignatieff (I'm sure I get the same consideration from them for my Harper intentions...)

At least, Ignatieff can say he tried to make parliament work. The others can't.
 
Francis2004
Avatar
#28
Hey pegger, you think they got the right names on the right ones ?

 
Cannuck
No Party Affiliation
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#29
Quote: Originally Posted by peggerView Post

but really, Captain, Ron, Cannuck probably won't vote Liberal in the next election - or any election...so I weigh that when I consider their "complaints" agaisnt Ignatieff (I'm sure I get the same consideration from them for my Harper intentions...)

I've voted Liberal before and Green the last go round. Hell, I've even voted NDP once as a protest vote. Provincially, I have consistently voted against the Conservatives. I think your statement is a cop-out. If Iggy would give me a reason to support him, I'd vote for him. It's not like Harpo has been doing a great job and deserves my vote.
 
pegger
No Party Affiliation
Avatar
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by CannuckView Post

I've voted Liberal before and Green the last go round. Hell, I've even voted NDP once as a protest vote. Provincially, I have consistently voted against the Conservatives. I think your statement is a cop-out. If Iggy would give me a reason to support him, I'd vote for him. It's not like Harpo has been doing a great job and deserves my vote.

If I'm wrong - then I'm wrong - however you can't disagree that some "opinions" wouldn't change even if light started to shine from Iggy's ass.

What do you suggest should happen?
Last edited by pegger; Jun 28th, 2009 at 10:48 PM..
 

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