Another Canadian soldier killed in Afghanistan,

[Liberalman]

And the war continues and all the Conservatives can say is "I am sorry for your loss"

We could have been out of there but our government feels differently.

As the human rights dissapear for the Afghan women and government activists are killed on the streets Canadian soldiers will continue to die.

Is this what you call progress.

What has Canada accomplished? Nothing!

Mr. Prime Minister Bring our soldiers home and let the other NATO members countries take up the fight.

Quit acting like America's Bi-ATCH act like the Prime Minister of Canada.

You owe us that much

 

[Kreskin]

The Liberal government are the ones who got us in there. I don't think of Afghanistan as anyone's mistake. Our troops have done a great job, and we owe the families of these fallen soldiers a great deal of thanks and condolences. No one can say Canada hasn't tried. If we hadn't gone in, and things were as they are or worse, these forums would be full of second guessing 'what ifs' with the shoe on the other foot. As Wayne Gretzky once said, if you don't shoot you don't score 100% of the time. That doesn't mean every shot on goal will go in.

We have tried. It's hard to measure against hypothetical speculation but maybe the efforts of our troops have made more difference than we'll ever know.

 

[Unforgiven]

It's war, soldiers die. If you can't stomach the concept, then stop reading the papers.

 

[Liberalman]

It's the Conservative party that extended it and changed it from rebuiding to a combat mission.

All the other NATO countries are strictly rebuiding that's why they decided to not send any troops for combat in tjer last meeting.

 

[shadowshiv]

By yet another IED. Damned cowards.:-(

 

[ironsides]

Canada was not part of any rebuilding force when the went to Afghanistan, they sent combat troops. Combat troops do not rebuild. Get over it, you are not there as peacekeepers. If everyone there dedicated themselves to rebuilding (mud huts by the way) they would be killed. Think of it as protecting those who were sent there to rebuild. The Taliban do not want anyone there and Al Qaeda just needs a base.

Yes those who use IED's are cowards, land mines of any type are outlawed.:angryfire:

 

[darkbeaver]

By yet another IED. Damned cowards.:-(

Actually to lay a mine properly and effectively on an open stretch of road surrounded by hostiles isn't work for cowards, but guideing a missile into a house full of women and children certainly is. In defence of ones home and kin there are few rules SS. When our turn comes we'll do the same or we'll die.

 

[Unforgiven]

Actually to lay a mine properly and effectively on an open stretch of road surrounded by hostiles isn't work for cowards, but guideing a missile into a house full of women and children certainly is. In defence of ones home and kin there are few rules SS. When our turn comes we'll do the same or we'll die.

Those of us sitting behind monitors in comfy chairs, safe and secure from the outside world, brandishing machismo like a sabre in the sun before the foe so many miles away is what I find cowardly.

To even touch an IDE takes more guts than 99% of the people here have. Let alone go dig one into the ground near a road to kill some military personel all the while trained soldiers are looking to take your head off from a mile away or a preditor drone that you won't see coming.

As well to handle the weapons used by the military you not only have to have more guts than China has chop sticks, but you have to know so God damn much about how they work, what you can do and what you can't and then beable to do that under fire.

So let's save the coward tag for ourselves while we sit here barking back and forth cheering for our teams.

And yes if things were turned around I for one would be digging landmines into roads and shooting rpgs into convoys until I met my maker.

 

[taxslave]

Lets keep this in perspective. The media are making a big deal of this for their own purposes. There were 29 loggers killed in B.C. alone in one year and nobody is shooting at us. More firefighters die in the line of duty in the US every year than Canadian soldiers killed in total in A-stan.

 

[Unforgiven]

Lets keep this in perspective. The media are making a big deal of this for their own purposes. There were 29 loggers killed in B.C. alone in one year and nobody is shooting at us. More firefighters die in the line of duty in the US every year than Canadian soldiers killed in total in A-stan.

Context is everything.

 

[mabudon]

Yes, context is important which is why death rates in ANY other "theatre" are irrelevant to the waste of life in Afghanistan. We are not wasting billions of dollars a year for ZERO return on forestry. I mean, how many peoples die in hospitals every year?? Probably lots more than in Afghanistan- does that bring new "context" to the afghanistan debacle?? No- it is unrelated and a total red-herring.

Every death is pointless over there, the poor people getting blown to shreds are NOT heroes, they are casualties. To use the word "hero" to describe a person simply getting blown apart is a real stretch and an obvious feel-good gimmick that is used to instill a "never give up" and "we gotta do it for THEM" mentality that is not based in any sort of fact.

Seriously no disrespect to any of the fallen, I truly feel bad for them, but just because they believed in whatever it is we're attepmting to do over there doesn't make them correct. And before someone accuses me of being afraid to go there myself- I wouldn't participate in any endeavour where I wasn't allowed to know what the actual goals were. If "women going to school" is enough for you, then you are truly gullible

 

[Unforgiven]

Yes, context is important which is why death rates in ANY other "theatre" are irrelevant to the waste of life in Afghanistan. We are not wasting billions of dollars a year for ZERO return on forestry. I mean, how many peoples die in hospitals every year?? Probably lots more than in Afghanistan- does that bring new "context" to the afghanistan debacle?? No- it is unrelated and a total red-herring.

Every death is pointless over there, the poor people getting blown to shreds are NOT heroes, they are casualties. To use the word "hero" to describe a person simply getting blown apart is a real stretch and an obvious feel-good gimmick that is used to instill a "never give up" and "we gotta do it for THEM" mentality that is not based in any sort of fact.

Seriously no disrespect to any of the fallen, I truly feel bad for them, but just because they believed in whatever it is we're attepmting to do over there doesn't make them correct. And before someone accuses me of being afraid to go there myself- I wouldn't participate in any endeavour where I wasn't allowed to know what the actual goals were. If "women going to school" is enough for you, then you are truly gullible

Hold on a second, Afghanistan exported terrorism to the West. Before that there was little more than a lot of head shaking and UN sanctions. The US dumped weapons and training there while the Russians attempted to take the country over by force to extend communism.

While everyone sinks their teeth into a sound bite some politician has uttered the fact remains that this was a place where terrorism stems from. Recruited, taught, financed and supported right from the people and places we fight and fight in. Not to bring democracy, that would be good though, not to make sure little girls go to school, that would be good though and not to rebuild some country after the people have made a mess of it. But to make damn sure that these same scum bags don't have the means or opportunity to continue to do what they did in 9/11.

That's it. All this other stuff will help in the long run but not as much as killing all those who would choose to continue what they started.

 

[mabudon]

As I have said for almost 7 years, lock the country down, no travel in or out, don't be driving around in the midst of a bunch of folks who now have several years worth of great reasons to want to kill us.

If we don't have the resources and means to impose such a lock-down (and I would be surprised if we don't) then we most definitely don't have the "right stuff" required to take control internally. If we are there to "kill bads guys" then why are we driving around trying to put a smiley face on it?? Constant bombardment from high altitude will be more than enough

This is where the argument for our mission falls apart, if we TRULY are there to kill al the bad guys we shouldn't be all that concerned about collateral damage. Having to make a war all "humanitarian" is ludicrous- the main reason I oppose the whole deal is due to the mix of tough talk and feel-good BS with which it has been presented.

IF the true intent was to stop "terrorists" from coming from Afghanistan and NOT regime change/establishing a base of operations and a friendly client state, we are going about it in the stupidest way possible. It is clear that we have VERY few friends on the ground there, maybe operating on the ground is just plain stupid- unless "making sure the terrorists can't attack from Afghanistan" is just PR and there's other reasons for our involvement.

The strategy has nothing to do with the stated goal which is why I continue to be strongly against the "mission". I am not attacking anyone here and expect the same courtesy back, I just wonder how driving around rural Afghanistan is doing anything to forward the stated objective (not meaning you Unf just the posts I KNOW are coming, people don't dare criticise our sacred "mission" without blowback)

 

[Unforgiven]

As I have said for almost 7 years, lock the country down, no travel in or out, don't be driving around in the midst of a bunch of folks who now have several years worth of great reasons to want to kill us.

If we don't have the resources and means to impose such a lock-down (and I would be surprised if we don't) then we most definitely don't have the "right stuff" required to take control internally. If we are there to "kill bads guys" then why are we driving around trying to put a smiley face on it?? Constant bombardment from high altitude will be more than enough

This is where the argument for our mission falls apart, if we TRULY are there to kill al the bad guys we shouldn't be all that concerned about collateral damage. Having to make a war all "humanitarian" is ludicrous- the main reason I oppose the whole deal is due to the mix of tough talk and feel-good BS with which it has been presented.

IF the true intent was to stop "terrorists" from coming from Afghanistan and NOT regime change/establishing a base of operations and a friendly client state, we are going about it in the stupidest way possible. It is clear that we have VERY few friends on the ground there, maybe operating on the ground is just plain stupid- unless "making sure the terrorists can't attack from Afghanistan" is just PR and there's other reasons for our involvement.

The strategy has nothing to do with the stated goal which is why I continue to be strongly against the "mission". I am not attacking anyone here and expect the same courtesy back, I just wonder how driving around rural Afghanistan is doing anything to forward the stated objective (not meaning you Unf just the posts I KNOW are coming, people don't dare criticise our sacred "mission" without blowback)

Thanks for the respect and you have mine.

The problem is our sensitivity to the horrors of war. We get every minute detail blasted at us in High Def at breakfast lunch and dinner, as well as every ten minutes on radio and tv, not to mention the 24/7 news telling us all about the body parts scattered about when soldiers hit some nice family that are smart enough to use the garage as an ammo dump.

We want a nice clean war where we simply flex and our foes crumble into a heap and cry for us to have mercy, or simply a clever word or two and everyone smiles and agrees on the fair deal all around.

Fact is there are some really bad people in the world. We have them and so do they. We like to think we keep ours on a short leash but we really simply don't know just how bad they are. Frankly I suspect we don't really care.

But then again same over there.

There is no locking the country down. I don't think you can do that anywhere. So to say that is an alternative is not really being honest.

You are right in that we need to stop bringing a lot of this on ourselves, but that's another easy thing to say that's not so easy to do. You're asking someone to prevent all crime. Well good luck with that. The only thing we can do is make some sort of reparations when asked to.

But that won't change that there will always be some who choose to start a war right in your backyard. So if there has to be a war, it's better in my book to have it over there where they are than over here where we are.

Afghanistan was and still is a terrorist state. The government supported that. So the government was removed and another set up to deal with the affairs of state such as they are. That's the way governments work, mess with the wrong government and you have a problem. The Taliban messed with the wrong government and this is what they got out of the deal.

The biggest problem I see is not with the Taliban or the US government, it's with our own people. We're at war for crying out loud and people here are having a good old time of things. We should be sending all able bodied people off to Afghanistan and to hell with the recession, we should be building tanks, apcs and all the rest of the military hardware to kick the living hell out of anyone who chooses to stand against our forces.

For no other reason than they attacked our friends and allies, the Americans. And don't think for a moment that if it was Canadians in Canada that were killed the way Americans in America were killed, they wouldn't be standing right the hell up for us and having their soldiers shipped home in a coffin.

There will always be someone who will make a buck or a political career off war. That isn't the point. The point is that we live in peace here and if there is a problem then we are willing to negotiate a resolution to it and carry on. No where else in the world has what we have on the level we do. That's why people immigrate here. There is no negotiation with anyone who will die for what they think their God wants when their God wants all infidels dead.

We need to stop playing down our abilities to sooth the misguided and start using everything and anything to force capitulation or extermination.

Then we can start to educate and allow who is left to understand the benefits of peace and prosperity while living their spiritual life within that framework.

 

[talloola]

Canada is a member of NATO, and that is a commitment, you don't just walk out
when things don't go 'your' way. It is a group effort, and has to be shut down as
a group effort.

 

[mabudon]

Ahh see Unf, I am so strongly against this "mission" that I am on a totally opposite side. I don't believe that a few large north american governments actually have my interests at heart. If I truly thought that was the case (that most of our adventures overseas had the "common man" interests at the heart) then I would possibly be more inclined to rethink my position on Afghanistan as far as the Canadian involvement therein

As it stands, to me the whole thing stinks to high heaven, and as I said if we can't with our technology win the "war" there is NO chance of doing it the "old fashioned" way

With our country in a huge defecit situation we have to cut some expenses, so even in a basic economic sense, not feeling the dramatic urgency of "they hate our freedoms and they'll hit 'us' again" I personally don't see how even the monetary expense can be justified on such an obviously fruitless, nebulous endeavour , much less the human cost

Just my POV tho

 

[Machjo]

There's another victim in Afghanistan who's been neglected:

YouTube - Afghanistan - Interpreters

 

[gerryh]

It's the Conservative party that extended it and changed it from rebuiding to a combat mission.

All the other NATO countries are strictly rebuiding that's why they decided to not send any troops for combat in tjer last meeting.

Hey shyte for brains....... Canada NEVER went in as rebuilders...we went in as combat troops from day one. Our mandate has not changed except to ADD rebuilding as well as combat. Get it right for once instead of feeding the rightwings bullshyte idea that all Liberals are morons. If you want to continue with the moron label, please do the rest of us Liberals a favour and dump "Liberal" from your handle because you're a fricken disgrace.

 

[gopher]

While the war continues in Afghanistan, news of those events go largely unreported here in the States. Same for events in Iraq. When I watch BBC or Deutsche Welle you can see daily reports of violence, suicide bombings, poverty (especially in rural areas), and very little in the way of positive news in those pathetic states.

Obama promised withdrawal by next year. The smarter thing would be to withdraw now, allow those people to sort things out for themselves, and to have the bill for those wars paid for.

 

[gopher]

''Get it right for once instead of feeding the rightwings bullshyte idea that all Liberals are morons. If you want to continue with the moron label, please do the rest of us Liberals a favour and dump "Liberal" from your handle because you're a fricken disgrace.''


That's the raison d'etre for his name.