No party affiliation
Posts: 1,307 
Location: Oshawa
Location: Oshawa
April 21st, 2008, 12:35 PM
Environmental Defence has released a report calling the Alberta Oil Sands the most destructive project on Earth.
Few Canadians know that Canada is home to one of the world's largest dams and it is built to hold toxic waste from just one Tar Sands operation," Rick Smith, the executive director of Environmental Defence.
And according to the report this is just the beginning. Approvals have already been given that will double the size of existing operations and Canada's leaders have been talking with the US government to grow oil sands operations in a "short time span."
Even a former Premier of Alberta is concerned. Peter Lougheed who served as Premier from 1971 to 1985 was recently quoted on the oil sands as saying:
... it is just a moonscape. It is wrong in my judgment, a major wrong... So it is a major, major federal and provincial issue."
However, there is a silver lining in all this. A recent Canadian parliamentary committee recently stated that:
A business as usual approach to the development of the oil sands is not sustainable. The time has come to begin the transition to a clean energy future."
Here's a few facts about the Alberta Oil Sands:
Oil sands mining is licensed to use twice the amount of fresh water that the entire city of Calgary uses in a year.
- At least 90% of the fresh water used in the oil sands ends up in ends up in tailing ponds so toxic that propane cannons are used to keep ducks from landing in them.
- Processing the oil sands uses enough natural gas in a day to heat 3 million homes in Canada.
- The toxic tailing ponds are considered one of the largest human-made structures in the world. The ponds span 50 square kilometers and can be seen from space.
- Producing a barrel of oil from the oil sands produces three times more greenhouse gas emissions than a barrel of conventional oil.
- The oil sands operations are the fastest growing source of heat-trapping greenhouse gas in Canada. By 2020 the oil sands will release twice the amount produced currently by all the cars and trucks in Canada.
http://www.desmogblog.com/report-alb...oject-on-earth
Environmental Defence has released a report calling the Alberta Oil Sands the most destructive project on Earth.
Few Canadians know that Canada is home to one of the world's largest dams and it is built to hold toxic waste from just one Tar Sands operation," Rick Smith, the executive director of Environmental Defence.
And according to the report this is just the beginning. Approvals have already been given that will double the size of existing operations and Canada's leaders have been talking with the US government to grow oil sands operations in a "short time span."
Even a former Premier of Alberta is concerned. Peter Lougheed who served as Premier from 1971 to 1985 was recently quoted on the oil sands as saying:
... it is just a moonscape. It is wrong in my judgment, a major wrong... So it is a major, major federal and provincial issue."
However, there is a silver lining in all this. A recent Canadian parliamentary committee recently stated that:
A business as usual approach to the development of the oil sands is not sustainable. The time has come to begin the transition to a clean energy future."
Here's a few facts about the Alberta Oil Sands:
Oil sands mining is licensed to use twice the amount of fresh water that the entire city of Calgary uses in a year.
- At least 90% of the fresh water used in the oil sands ends up in ends up in tailing ponds so toxic that propane cannons are used to keep ducks from landing in them.
- Processing the oil sands uses enough natural gas in a day to heat 3 million homes in Canada.
- The toxic tailing ponds are considered one of the largest human-made structures in the world. The ponds span 50 square kilometers and can be seen from space.
- Producing a barrel of oil from the oil sands produces three times more greenhouse gas emissions than a barrel of conventional oil.
- The oil sands operations are the fastest growing source of heat-trapping greenhouse gas in Canada. By 2020 the oil sands will release twice the amount produced currently by all the cars and trucks in Canada.
http://www.desmogblog.com/report-alb...oject-on-earth
Clever Clogs
Posts: 666
Location: BC
Location: BC
April 21st, 2008, 03:37 PM
When enviro-Nazis put crap like this in their propaganda it really makes their argument suspect.
Quoting Avro
How long do the oil sand miners have to "use twice the amount of water that the city of Calgary uses in a year?" Sort of a central fact of the argument isn't it? Certainly strange that it is missing from an article entitled "Here's some facts...," when clearly it should read "Here's certain facts meant to alarm you..." Here's a few facts about the Alberta Oil Sands:
Oil sands mining is licensed to use twice the amount of fresh water that the entire city of Calgary uses in a year.
Oil sands mining is licensed to use twice the amount of fresh water that the entire city of Calgary uses in a year.
When enviro-Nazis put crap like this in their propaganda it really makes their argument suspect.
Chief Mogrifier
Posts: 8,479 
April 21st, 2008, 03:49 PM
Quoting Scott Free
If only you knew what you were talking about. A picture is worth a thousand words: It's a disaster alright.
How long do the oil sand miners have to "use twice the amount of water that the city of Calgary uses in a year?" Sort of a central fact of the argument isn't it? Certainly strange that it is missing from an article entitled "Here's some facts...," when clearly it should read "Here's certain facts meant to alarm you..."
When enviro-Nazis put crap like this in their propaganda it really makes their argument suspect.
When enviro-Nazis put crap like this in their propaganda it really makes their argument suspect.
Clever Clogs
Posts: 666
Location: BC
Location: BC
April 21st, 2008, 04:12 PM
Oh look a scary picture of a big hole!!!
So what?
I also see people working and I know grass grows back...
Quoting #juan
What I am talking about is the misrepresentation of facts for an ulterior agenda. If only you knew what I was talking about!!?!!
If only you knew what you were talking about.
Oh look a scary picture of a big hole!!!
So what?
I also see people working and I know grass grows back...
April 21st, 2008, 04:21 PM
Calgary uses about 182.5 million cubic meters of water per year. source (pdf) You'll have to perform some math for this one.
If the facts are alarming, perhaps it's because it should be alarming...
Quoting Scott Free
The Tar Sands operations are licensed to withdraw 349 million cubic meters of water per year. source (pdf)
How long do the oil sand miners have to "use twice the amount of water that the city of Calgary uses in a year?" Sort of a central fact of the argument isn't it? Certainly strange that it is missing from an article entitled "Here's some facts...," when clearly it should read "Here's certain facts meant to alarm you..."
When enviro-Nazis put crap like this in their propaganda it really makes their argument suspect.
When enviro-Nazis put crap like this in their propaganda it really makes their argument suspect.
Calgary uses about 182.5 million cubic meters of water per year. source (pdf) You'll have to perform some math for this one.
If the facts are alarming, perhaps it's because it should be alarming...
Chief Mogrifier
Posts: 8,479
April 21st, 2008, 04:27 PM
Here are two more pictures of the tar sands: Sure, the grass will grow back some day but it hasn't yet. Those tailing ponds though are toxic.
http://www.google.ca/url?q=http://ww...-EBJu7Ls8ozOwQ
Here are two more pictures of the tar sands: Sure, the grass will grow back some day but it hasn't yet. Those tailing ponds though are toxic.
http://www.google.ca/url?q=http://ww...-EBJu7Ls8ozOwQ
Clever Clogs
Posts: 666
Location: BC
Location: BC
April 21st, 2008, 04:30 PM
Quoting #juan
I'm afraid the pictures don't do much for me. It isn't like there was rain forest there before. Grass really does grow back. I've been to northern Alberta and can personally attest to the fact that that is all these operations are really disturbing. The landscape is pretty bleak to start with.
Here are two more pictures of the tar sands: Sure, the grass will grow back some day but it hasn't yet. Those tailing ponds though are toxic.
http://www.google.ca/url?q=http://ww...-EBJu7Ls8ozOwQ
http://www.google.ca/url?q=http://ww...-EBJu7Ls8ozOwQ
Clever Clogs
Posts: 666
Location: BC
Location: BC
April 21st, 2008, 04:34 PM
If some lake is being starved and the local animals around that lake are being killed then maybe you have a point.
Quoting Tonington
OK, and where would that water otherwise end up? Is it really hurting the environment or would that water have just gone to the ocean? There is plenty of fresh water going to the ocean from arctic ice melting anyway right now.
The Tar Sands operations are licensed to withdraw 349 million cubic meters of water per year. source (pdf)
Calgary uses about 182.5 million cubic meters of water per year. source (pdf) You'll have to perform some math for this one.
If the facts are alarming, perhaps it's because it should be alarming...
Calgary uses about 182.5 million cubic meters of water per year. source (pdf) You'll have to perform some math for this one.
If the facts are alarming, perhaps it's because it should be alarming...
If some lake is being starved and the local animals around that lake are being killed then maybe you have a point.
April 21st, 2008, 04:51 PM
Problems upstream mean problems downstream.
Quoting Scott Free
It would otherwise end up in the river tributaries, used by other humans and ecological systems. With the Tar Sands, you get Tar Ponds. Look up the Sydney Tar Ponds to see how well that has turned out. Elevated cancer, autoimmune diseases, and a host of other health problems. And now, there are deformed fish in the Athabasca watershed, which feeds many Native reserves in the North. In the end it eventually ends up in the Arctic Ocean, after many lakes and rivers.
OK, and where would that water otherwise end up? Is it really hurting the environment or would that water have just gone to the ocean? There is plenty of fresh water going to the ocean from arctic ice melting anyway right now.
If some lake is being starved and the local animals around that lake are being killed then maybe you have a point.
If some lake is being starved and the local animals around that lake are being killed then maybe you have a point.
Problems upstream mean problems downstream.
Clever Clogs
Posts: 666
Location: BC
Location: BC
April 21st, 2008, 05:02 PM
Quoting Tonington
I do agree that Tar Ponds are unacceptable. With the record profits oil companies are making it seems reasonable to force them to find a solution.
It would otherwise end up in the river tributaries, used by other humans and ecological systems. With the Tar Sands, you get Tar Ponds. Look up the Sydney Tar Ponds to see how well that has turned out. Elevated cancer, autoimmune diseases, and a host of other health problems. And now, there are deformed fish in the Athabasca watershed, which feeds many Native reserves in the North. In the end it eventually ends up in the Arctic Ocean, after many lakes and rivers.
Problems upstream mean problems downstream.
Problems upstream mean problems downstream.
Clever Clogs
Posts: 666
Location: BC
Location: BC
April 21st, 2008, 05:53 PM
Quoting #juan 
Before and after photo. The first step to prepare the ground for open pit mining is to burn down the virgin forest.
OK, point well made. Before and after photo. The first step to prepare the ground for open pit mining is to burn down the virgin forest.
Chief Mogrifier
Posts: 8,479
April 22nd, 2008, 01:36 PM
The people should be told about this disgrace.
http://www.onearth.org/article/canad...to-hell?page=4
The people should be told about this disgrace.
http://www.onearth.org/article/canad...to-hell?page=4
No party affiliation
Posts: 1,307
Location: Oshawa
Location: Oshawa
April 22nd, 2008, 06:23 PM
Quoting Scott Free
So you come in with an arrogant response like this and then get owned.....too funny.
How long do the oil sand miners have to "use twice the amount of water that the city of Calgary uses in a year?" Sort of a central fact of the argument isn't it? Certainly strange that it is missing from an article entitled "Here's some facts...," when clearly it should read "Here's certain facts meant to alarm you..."
When enviro-Nazis put crap like this in their propaganda it really makes their argument suspect.
When enviro-Nazis put crap like this in their propaganda it really makes their argument suspect.
