Genius
Posts: 998 
Location: Was Victoria, now Ottawa
Location: Was Victoria, now Ottawa
January 12th, 2008, 05:10 PM
What is the media's response when a soldier dies in Afghanistan? "They are heroes". Why do they do this? Would it be because they don't want to turn Canadians against the war? No, we must support our troops! Whatever that means. Let me say this. You are not a hero if you go to a war and get killed. That is not heroic! You are a hero if you save someone’s life. But for whatever reason, the media dubs every soldier who dies a hero. This is a terrible thing because it puts our soldiers at further risk. Canadians in turn don’t question the war and ask if we should be there at all. All this nonsense about wearing red on Friday and the whole “support our troops” propaganda is getting our soldiers killed because we aren’t demanding that our troops are brought home. Instead of a newspaper headline that says “He was a hero” it should read “Was it worth it?”[/font]
What is the media's response when a soldier dies in Afghanistan? "They are heroes". Why do they do this? Would it be because they don't want to turn Canadians against the war? No, we must support our troops! Whatever that means. Let me say this. You are not a hero if you go to a war and get killed. That is not heroic! You are a hero if you save someone’s life. But for whatever reason, the media dubs every soldier who dies a hero. This is a terrible thing because it puts our soldiers at further risk. Canadians in turn don’t question the war and ask if we should be there at all. All this nonsense about wearing red on Friday and the whole “support our troops” propaganda is getting our soldiers killed because we aren’t demanding that our troops are brought home. Instead of a newspaper headline that says “He was a hero” it should read “Was it worth it?”[/font]
Newbie
Posts: 21
January 12th, 2008, 08:32 PM
The first causality of war is the truth for sure, it is money in the bank for a paper to run a "Hero" story, not so if they want to ask "other" questions and risk upsetting the majority of their customers stuck in the consensus reality, or worse - their corporate owners.
The mainstream media was bought up years ago to work hand in glove with the war profiteers and todays soldiers are nothing more than underpaid corporate thugs.
This is why the population needs constant manipulation through the media and suspicious events like 9/11 to constantly reinforce the need for war. If we ever knew the truth there would be a revolution by morning.
Why We Fight explains much to this end.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...69348838274375
That being said, I feel for the families of our fallen troops because one thing is almost guaranteed, they are young and never had a chance to live long enough to learn what or who they were really fighting for.
The first causality of war is the truth for sure, it is money in the bank for a paper to run a "Hero" story, not so if they want to ask "other" questions and risk upsetting the majority of their customers stuck in the consensus reality, or worse - their corporate owners.
The mainstream media was bought up years ago to work hand in glove with the war profiteers and todays soldiers are nothing more than underpaid corporate thugs.
This is why the population needs constant manipulation through the media and suspicious events like 9/11 to constantly reinforce the need for war. If we ever knew the truth there would be a revolution by morning.
Why We Fight explains much to this end.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...69348838274375
That being said, I feel for the families of our fallen troops because one thing is almost guaranteed, they are young and never had a chance to live long enough to learn what or who they were really fighting for.
Bright Spark
Posts: 476
Location: Zurich
Location: Zurich
January 12th, 2008, 08:48 PM
Eh Huh, "The mainstream media was bought up years ago to work hand in glove with the war profiteers and todays soldiers are nothing more than underpaid corporate thugs... If we ever knew the truth there would be a revolution by morning.
Well at least you admit that you don't know the truth, which is the obvious, but you talk like a fool anyway. Today's soldiers, underpaid corporate thugs? The CBC working hand-in-glove with war profiteers? This is not reality. Why have you invented it if you did not prefer it? If you are the original moron to come up with this paradyme, then it is your design, and you have proven in public that you are depraved.
Eh Huh, "The mainstream media was bought up years ago to work hand in glove with the war profiteers and todays soldiers are nothing more than underpaid corporate thugs... If we ever knew the truth there would be a revolution by morning.
Well at least you admit that you don't know the truth, which is the obvious, but you talk like a fool anyway. Today's soldiers, underpaid corporate thugs? The CBC working hand-in-glove with war profiteers? This is not reality. Why have you invented it if you did not prefer it? If you are the original moron to come up with this paradyme, then it is your design, and you have proven in public that you are depraved.
Grossly Underrated
Posts: 4,820 
Location: In the bush somewhere near Sudbury
Location: In the bush somewhere near Sudbury
January 12th, 2008, 08:54 PM
The soldier didn't ask to be sent to an unpopular war any more than he/she would ask to be sent to some disaster to pull your ass out of a flood. I don't believe in the war they're stuck with, but you can bet a pat on the back for doing the best he/she can do is good for morale - and might just keep him/her alive that day.
Woof!
The soldier didn't ask to be sent to an unpopular war any more than he/she would ask to be sent to some disaster to pull your ass out of a flood. I don't believe in the war they're stuck with, but you can bet a pat on the back for doing the best he/she can do is good for morale - and might just keep him/her alive that day.
Woof!
Super Genius
Posts: 1,367
Location: Great Satan
Location: Great Satan
January 12th, 2008, 09:30 PM
However...the op is more than impressed with the heroics he displays whilst writing from the basement of mommy's house. Yes....your epeen must be swollen with overwhelming pride at the e-courage it takes to arm-chair wars that you would never have the e-testicular fortitude to fight/
Bravo, you are my e-hero.
However...the op is more than impressed with the heroics he displays whilst writing from the basement of mommy's house. Yes....your epeen must be swollen with overwhelming pride at the e-courage it takes to arm-chair wars that you would never have the e-testicular fortitude to fight/
Bravo, you are my e-hero.
Hawkings former plumber
Posts: 8,794
Videos: 1
Location: RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia Drive Apt 911
Videos: 1
Location: RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia Drive Apt 911
January 12th, 2008, 09:38 PM
It is impossible encourage those engaged in war and to oppose the war at the same time with any credibility.The government knows this and uses it.
Get them out before we attack pakistan which is the plan.
It is impossible encourage those engaged in war and to oppose the war at the same time with any credibility.The government knows this and uses it.
Get them out before we attack pakistan which is the plan.
January 12th, 2008, 10:32 PM
Do you care to weigh in on the actual content of the message?
Personally, I think it's a really valid point, whether you are for or against the war. The deaths of our soldiers shouldn't be used to rally support for a war. Each and every life lost should be weighed out against our reason for waging war.
Quoting thomaska
lol... um, thomaska, I don't think any of us is really in a place to put someone down for expressing their views via the internet are we?
However...the op is more than impressed with the heroics he displays whilst writing from the basement of mommy's house. Yes....your epeen must be swollen with overwhelming pride at the e-courage it takes to arm-chair wars that you would never have the e-testicular fortitude to fight/
Bravo, you are my e-hero.
Bravo, you are my e-hero.
Do you care to weigh in on the actual content of the message?
Personally, I think it's a really valid point, whether you are for or against the war. The deaths of our soldiers shouldn't be used to rally support for a war. Each and every life lost should be weighed out against our reason for waging war.
Newbie
Posts: 21
January 12th, 2008, 11:00 PM
I see you are flying the Israeli flag, are you aware they (your homeland I presume?) are now the world's 4th largest arms exporter? That tells me much about YOUR reality, you are simply a product of your environment and me a product of mine.
Also, when you resort to name calling and attacking strawmen it only highlights the weakness of your argument.
Quoting jimshort19
The CBC is slightly different in the fact it is not a corporate controlled for profit organization but nonetheless conforms to the consensus reality created by the mainstream media, CNN, FOX news et al.
Well at least you admit that you don't know the truth, which is the obvious, but you talk like a fool anyway. Today's soldiers, underpaid corporate thugs? The CBC working hand-in-glove with war profiteers? This is not reality. Why have you invented it if you did not prefer it? If you are the original moron to come up with this paradyme, then it is your design, and you have proven in public that you are depraved.
I see you are flying the Israeli flag, are you aware they (your homeland I presume?) are now the world's 4th largest arms exporter? That tells me much about YOUR reality, you are simply a product of your environment and me a product of mine.
Also, when you resort to name calling and attacking strawmen it only highlights the weakness of your argument.
Genius
Posts: 998
Location: Was Victoria, now Ottawa
Location: Was Victoria, now Ottawa
January 13th, 2008, 09:15 AM
Whenever anyone argues against the war there will be those that say "they're putting their lives on the line while you sit at home and complain". But how does a country improve itself if its citizens don't point out the mistakes the government makes? Would any country grow and better itself if everyone just sat back and let the government do whatever it wants? The media should always run the government and military over the coals whenever it screws up. Our national media is becoming more Americanized; our soldiers are automatically heroes when they die. And whenever anyone criticizes that someone invariably says "they didn't ask to be there but they're doing the best job they can". That is true, but shouldn't the citizens of this country ask why they're there instead of blindly supporting the mission and patriotically waving the flag? If you care for your soldiers you wouldn't just blindly support them no matter what mission they're on.
Whenever anyone argues against the war there will be those that say "they're putting their lives on the line while you sit at home and complain". But how does a country improve itself if its citizens don't point out the mistakes the government makes? Would any country grow and better itself if everyone just sat back and let the government do whatever it wants? The media should always run the government and military over the coals whenever it screws up. Our national media is becoming more Americanized; our soldiers are automatically heroes when they die. And whenever anyone criticizes that someone invariably says "they didn't ask to be there but they're doing the best job they can". That is true, but shouldn't the citizens of this country ask why they're there instead of blindly supporting the mission and patriotically waving the flag? If you care for your soldiers you wouldn't just blindly support them no matter what mission they're on.
Hawkings former plumber
Posts: 8,794
Videos: 1
Location: RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia Drive Apt 911
Videos: 1
Location: RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia Drive Apt 911
January 13th, 2008, 09:19 AM
Quoting jimshort19
Jim, buddy, if you know what is not the truth then you must also know what is the truth, give it to us now please. Why do you keep us in ignorance?
Eh Huh, "The mainstream media was bought up years ago to work hand in glove with the war profiteers and todays soldiers are nothing more than underpaid corporate thugs... If we ever knew the truth there would be a revolution by morning.
Well at least you admit that you don't know the truth, which is the obvious, but you talk like a fool anyway. Today's soldiers, underpaid corporate thugs? The CBC working hand-in-glove with war profiteers? This is not reality. Why have you invented it if you did not prefer it? If you are the original moron to come up with this paradyme, then it is your design, and you have proven in public that you are depraved.
Well at least you admit that you don't know the truth, which is the obvious, but you talk like a fool anyway. Today's soldiers, underpaid corporate thugs? The CBC working hand-in-glove with war profiteers? This is not reality. Why have you invented it if you did not prefer it? If you are the original moron to come up with this paradyme, then it is your design, and you have proven in public that you are depraved.
Bright Spark
Posts: 476
Location: Zurich
Location: Zurich
January 13th, 2008, 09:21 AM
Eh huh, "The CBC is slightly different..."
Sure. And CTV is different too. And Global. None of them are guilty of working with war profiteers. You either made this up, or you borrowed it from... I won't say moron.
"...conforms to the consensus reality created by the mainstream media, CNN, FOX news et al."
The consensus reality? Let me introduce the consensus reality to you. The consensus reality is that you don't know what you are talking about. You think that it is more clever to be cynical than to be well balanced. You are unbalanced.
"I see you are flying the Israeli flag, That tells me much about YOUR reality..."
Blah, blah, blah. I'll fly 12 different flags a day if I want to, just to change your view of reality 12 times a day, because then it might dawn on you that you are not only incorrect, but superficial to a self-confessed and flakey extreme.
"Also, when you resort to name calling and attacking strawmen it only highlights the weakness of your argument."
Are you a straw man? You write faster than you think.
Eh huh, "The CBC is slightly different..."
Sure. And CTV is different too. And Global. None of them are guilty of working with war profiteers. You either made this up, or you borrowed it from... I won't say moron.
"...conforms to the consensus reality created by the mainstream media, CNN, FOX news et al."
The consensus reality? Let me introduce the consensus reality to you. The consensus reality is that you don't know what you are talking about. You think that it is more clever to be cynical than to be well balanced. You are unbalanced.
"I see you are flying the Israeli flag, That tells me much about YOUR reality..."
Blah, blah, blah. I'll fly 12 different flags a day if I want to, just to change your view of reality 12 times a day, because then it might dawn on you that you are not only incorrect, but superficial to a self-confessed and flakey extreme.
"Also, when you resort to name calling and attacking strawmen it only highlights the weakness of your argument."
Are you a straw man? You write faster than you think.
Hawkings former plumber
Posts: 8,794
Videos: 1
Location: RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia Drive Apt 911
Videos: 1
Location: RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia Drive Apt 911
January 13th, 2008, 09:26 AM
Quoting Gonzo
I agree with you completely. I know some of those young men who have served in Afghanistan and I can tell you they could not wait to engage in the adventure.And that is the condition of young men that war mongers have preyed on forever. When you cannot tell a young man or women that what they do and why is considered unpatriotic that destruction of young lives will never end. Many people do not want the youth of the planet destroyed with the same old rotten mistakes of the past to characterize thier concern and thier voices as not supporting the troops is despicable bull****.
Whenever anyone argues against the war there will be those that say "they're putting their lives on the line while you sit at home and complain". But how does a country improve itself if its citizens don't point out the mistakes the government makes? Would any country grow and better itself if everyone just sat back and let the government do whatever it wants? The media should always run the government and military over the coals whenever it screws up. Our national media is becoming more Americanized; our soldiers are automatically heroes when they die. And whenever anyone criticizes that someone invariably says "they didn't ask to be there but they're doing the best job they can". That is true, but shouldn't the citizens of this country ask why they're there instead of blindly supporting the mission and patriotically waving the flag? If you care for your soldiers you wouldn't just blindly support them no matter what mission they're on.
Knows No Bounds
Posts: 2,841
January 13th, 2008, 09:34 AM
You know what, I am going to agree with some of the words of the original post, but not its intent.
Not every dead soldier is a hero. Some of them may have been panicing or immoral individuals who signed up for a job they couldn't do, were overcome with cowardice/reason when under fire, paniced and got others killed.
Every other war has had these individuals, who may (or may not) have been good indivuals just not suited to being soldiers. I do not believe for a second this is the first war in our history where EVERYONE who died is a hero.
That being said, I think they deserve more than a little respect for being the ones being shot at and bombed.
You know what, I am going to agree with some of the words of the original post, but not its intent.
Not every dead soldier is a hero. Some of them may have been panicing or immoral individuals who signed up for a job they couldn't do, were overcome with cowardice/reason when under fire, paniced and got others killed.
Every other war has had these individuals, who may (or may not) have been good indivuals just not suited to being soldiers. I do not believe for a second this is the first war in our history where EVERYONE who died is a hero.
That being said, I think they deserve more than a little respect for being the ones being shot at and bombed.
Chief Mogrifier
Posts: 8,889
January 13th, 2008, 09:37 AM
During my time in the military we had no wars to go to but we still managed to send home a body or two every month. Were they heroes? Aircraft accidents, car accidents, other causes took their toll. The worst were car accidents. Take young men who aren't old enough to drink at home, send them overseas, and give them enough money to buy a car and all the booze they can drink and you have an accident waiting to happen.
During my time in the military we had no wars to go to but we still managed to send home a body or two every month. Were they heroes? Aircraft accidents, car accidents, other causes took their toll. The worst were car accidents. Take young men who aren't old enough to drink at home, send them overseas, and give them enough money to buy a car and all the booze they can drink and you have an accident waiting to happen.
Grossly Underrated
Posts: 4,820
Location: In the bush somewhere near Sudbury
Location: In the bush somewhere near Sudbury
January 13th, 2008, 09:46 AM
Woof!
Quoting Gonzo
If you care for your soldiers, you don't make them feel they have done you wrong. Do that to his/her face when he/she comes home. Whenever anyone argues against the war there will be those that say "they're putting their lives on the line while you sit at home and complain". But how does a country improve itself if its citizens don't point out the mistakes the government makes?
It's citizens call the government to account - NOT the people they send in to do their dirty work. Don't shoot the piano player!
Would any country grow and better itself if everyone just sat back and let the government do whatever it wants?
Of course not. Governments will do whatever they want if you're in their faces too. Elections don't matter because the real power has nothing to do with a big room in Ottawa or Washington.
The media should always run the government and military over the coals whenever it screws up.
If the media isn't run by the same people who run the government.
Our national media is becoming more Americanized; our soldiers are automatically heroes when they die.
It's called respect. On your final ride, take a peek out at the constable directing traffic. I bet he salutes your ass as the hearse rolls by. Are you a hero?
And whenever anyone criticizes that someone invariably says "they didn't ask to be there but they're doing the best job they can". That is true, but shouldn't the citizens of this country ask why they're there instead of blindly supporting the mission and patriotically waving the flag?
You ask it of Government. You don't blame the guy out in the field. There again, don't shoot the piano player.
If you care for your soldiers you wouldn't just blindly support them no matter what mission they're on.
It's citizens call the government to account - NOT the people they send in to do their dirty work. Don't shoot the piano player!
Would any country grow and better itself if everyone just sat back and let the government do whatever it wants?
Of course not. Governments will do whatever they want if you're in their faces too. Elections don't matter because the real power has nothing to do with a big room in Ottawa or Washington.
The media should always run the government and military over the coals whenever it screws up.
If the media isn't run by the same people who run the government.
Our national media is becoming more Americanized; our soldiers are automatically heroes when they die.
It's called respect. On your final ride, take a peek out at the constable directing traffic. I bet he salutes your ass as the hearse rolls by. Are you a hero?
And whenever anyone criticizes that someone invariably says "they didn't ask to be there but they're doing the best job they can". That is true, but shouldn't the citizens of this country ask why they're there instead of blindly supporting the mission and patriotically waving the flag?
You ask it of Government. You don't blame the guy out in the field. There again, don't shoot the piano player.
If you care for your soldiers you wouldn't just blindly support them no matter what mission they're on.
Woof!
Hawkings former plumber
Posts: 8,794
Videos: 1
Location: RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia Drive Apt 911
Videos: 1
Location: RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia Drive Apt 911
January 13th, 2008, 09:46 AM
Quoting jimshort19
What is reality Jim, you seem to know a lot about that but you are a greedy basturd and won't share it your fellows. Why are you so anti-social? I don't think your partys would be much fun, you'd make us all drink the same thing and listen to the saame tune over and over and over and over. Wouldn't you? I think you're a very nice intelligent man deep inside but just a little frightened to let your hair down in front of the boys what.
Eh huh, "The CBC is slightly different..."
Sure. And CTV is different too. And Global. None of them are guilty of working with war profiteers. You either made this up, or you borrowed it from... I won't say moron.
"...conforms to the consensus reality created by the mainstream media, CNN, FOX news et al."
The consensus reality? Let me introduce the consensus reality to you. The consensus reality is that you don't know what you are talking about. You think that it is more clever to be cynical than to be well balanced. You are unbalanced.
"I see you are flying the Israeli flag, That tells me much about YOUR reality..."
Blah, blah, blah. I'll fly 12 different flags a day if I want to, just to change your view of reality 12 times a day, because then it might dawn on you that you are not only incorrect, but superficial to a self-confessed and flakey extreme.
"Also, when you resort to name calling and attacking strawmen it only highlights the weakness of your argument."
Are you a straw man? You write faster than you think.
Sure. And CTV is different too. And Global. None of them are guilty of working with war profiteers. You either made this up, or you borrowed it from... I won't say moron.
"...conforms to the consensus reality created by the mainstream media, CNN, FOX news et al."
The consensus reality? Let me introduce the consensus reality to you. The consensus reality is that you don't know what you are talking about. You think that it is more clever to be cynical than to be well balanced. You are unbalanced.
"I see you are flying the Israeli flag, That tells me much about YOUR reality..."
Blah, blah, blah. I'll fly 12 different flags a day if I want to, just to change your view of reality 12 times a day, because then it might dawn on you that you are not only incorrect, but superficial to a self-confessed and flakey extreme.
"Also, when you resort to name calling and attacking strawmen it only highlights the weakness of your argument."
Are you a straw man? You write faster than you think.
