The divided left

[OakServe]

Ok so in 2003 the right wing (Canadian Alliance + Progressive Conservative Party) united into one party (Conservative Party).

But in the left wing we are heavily split, if you add up Green + Liberal + NDP you get a good majority of 60% of the vote. The only reason the conservatives are in power right now is because they cleverly united to provide right wingers only one voting option. But for the left wing, we have 3 different flavours to choose from. Some would argue that liberals are "center" and that green's are hardly left either, but many left wingers are so concerned about the environment they just see green and vote for them. As for the liberals, almost any left winger would take the libs over the conservatives any day of the week, so there's no dispute there, even if they are a center-ish party.

So in the end the left wing voters have 3 flavours to choose from, and of course the 60% of canadians who are left-minded end up splitting their vote and somehow the 32% right wingers get the government...

It's a pretty pathetic state of affairs, it is obvious we are not a right-wing country, but so long as the right is united and the left is divided we end up with a completely inaccurate portrayal of the countries beliefs in our governing party. I don't want canada to be a two party system like down south, where the left and right both united into two mega parties that are barely distinguishable. But so long as the right is united, and so long as the left wing has so many parties to choose from, how will the true voice of canada be delivered in the governng party? I just feel so sad that a country in which 65% don't like harper ends up with him as PM, something seems broken here.

Thoughts?

 

[Toro]

The Liberals aren't left.

Oh, and the Green vote will dissipate come the election. They won't get more than 5-6% of the vote.

 

[OakServe]

The Liberals aren't left.

this time read my whole post. then reply! (please )

 

[lone wolf]

We're voting on that in Ontario. Maybe take notes? Split votes gave Canada Free Trade and GST.

Wolf

 

[OakServe]

We're voting on that in Ontario. Maybe take notes? Split votes gave Canada Free Trade and GST.

Wolf

sorry, what exactly are you voting on in ontario? could you expand a little on that please

 

[lone wolf]

Included in the provincial election is a vote on proportional representation - aka popular vote matters

http://www.wayneon.ca/democracy/PRSimulator/simulator.html

Wolf

 

[OakServe]

proportional representation is only mildly related to this topic if i'm correct.

proportional representation doesn't fix the fact that the left/center vote is split into 3 different parties, the majority of canada is left/center and yet the government is right wing because of vote splitting. proportional representation doesn't fix that in any way, although it's a great thing on it's own, as there's no reason for some votes to be worth more than others.

 

[lone wolf]

My belief is we should have a three party system - no fringes. Two parties is too black-and-white. Three keeps everyone honest.

Wolf

 

[OakServe]

in some ways black and white is good, because you actually can see a contrast. when systems become too gray, all the political parties sound similar and are so busy trying to please everybody you never know what's lip service and what's real.

i'd prefer a 4 party system, with Left, Left Lite, Right Lite, Right

i'd say that currently we have NDP (Left), Liberals (Left Lite), Green (Left splitting) and then Conservatives (Right)

Ideally the green would merge with one of the other two lefts, and the conservatives would split into two options that allow hard rights to be separated from the moderate rights.

 

[lone wolf]

Seems to balance it - NDP, Libs, Tories. Worked before we got BQ and Rhino and Communist and Libertarian and Family Coalition and Navel Gazers and the Shriners to split the vote against into a gazillion factions.

Wolf

 

[OakServe]

i assure you a large large percentage of liberal votes come from textbook definitons of left wing personalities. they split the left vote no matter how hard people may try to sell them as center.

the ndp and the liberals get in each others way, that's pretty much common knowledge isn't it? while the tories are left unobstructed

 

[lone wolf]

i assure you a large large percentage of liberal votes come from textbook definitons of left wing personalities. they split the left vote no matter how hard people may try to sell them as center.

the ndp and the liberals get in each others way, that's pretty much common knowledge isn't it? while the tories are left unobstructed

Sorry, if you are going to alter the messages in your previous posts to make responses look stupid, and you already have all the answers, why are you wasting time debating when you could be playing a computer game?

Wolf

 

[OakServe]

Sorry, if you are going to alter the messages in your previous posts to make responses look stupid, and you already have all the answers, why are you wasting time debating when you could be playing a computer game?

Wolf

the edit button is there for a reason, i don't feel i used it maliciously. i certainly don't do it to make responses look stupid, please point out an edit that you thought i was trying to make others look stupid ?

i use edit to make corrections or add things i forgot to say.. there's no malicious intent involved..

 

[Colpy]

Honestly, I think the whole left - right argument is really exagerated in this country.......every party is crammed into the centre........

I used to be a Reformer, but have been dragged into the middle of the road kicking and screaming........I watched the Liberals steal Reform platform planks, hard to swallow that some believe there was so much difference. The CPC (of which I am a card-carrying member) has become Liberal Lite.........but there IS NO real right wing alternative.

So I vote for the least bad of a centre bunch.....

 

[OakServe]

it may be truer and truer as the years go by that all parties are essentially moving center, but it's still interesting to see where the votes go. while in reality the parties may be centrist, the conservatives are commonly thought of as right, the liberals commonly thought of left-lite, the ndp commonly thought of as left. and people vote based on those common assumptions. this is a country where the purported "center" party brought in social healthcare? comon, canadians idea of center is left by most other countries standards.

and from that, i see a 60% desire for leftish politics , yet the 32% that conservatives represent somehow forms the government due to immense vote-splitting of the majority vote.

it makes no sense to me for a man who 64% of the country voted against to have prime ministerial powers. (and polling indicates it will happen again in the next election)

 

[Dreadful Nonsense]

yeah well chretien and moi enjoyed those huge majorities due to the reform splitting the vote....

can't believe colpy would admit to voting for those morons..sheesh reform..even people like colpy get the stupids....not to mention the tasteless non artistic blandness of those people.....

i feel all dirty now ...i used to like colpy...BLEEEEHHHHHHHck...

 

[OakServe]

yeah well chretien and moi enjoyed those huge majorities due to the reform splitting the vote....

can't believe colpy would admit to voting for those morons..sheesh reform..even people like colpy get the stupids....not to mention the tasteless non artistic blandness of those people.....

i feel all dirty now ...i used to like colpy...BLEEEEHHHHHHHck...

sorry if i'm a bit ignorant of those times, but wouldn't the liberal vote have still been split by the ndp at the time?

 

[Dreadful Nonsense]

sorry if i'm a bit ignorant of those times, but wouldn't the liberal vote have still been split by the ndp at the time?

well Ndp at the time was a non starter...the real war federrally is always the conservatives and the liberals.....the bloq during the time of chretian made quebec irrelevant......
so beacuae of the reform taking the conservative seats out west and the old conservatives just dying in the east, the liberals had a field day...when the reform lied and that wimp , whats his name, the flake that llost his girlfriend to the hockey player and cried ...the moron that believed the reform guy harper that he was going to lead the conservative party if they formed the alliance...mackay! the hack from hicksville NS....man did he get conned..and then acted like all marks and played like it didn't really happen....

so like when they joined up the conservatives were a viable party and with the liberal quebec destroyed by the bloq the liberals lost....

as i have always stated the conservatives never win an election the liberals lose ....
Canada is basically built on liberal thinking...the conservatives are a tool to destroy the social nets liberals set up...too much liberal thinking is expensive and we need a fail safe like the conservative pricks to take away from the poor....

 

[OakServe]

yeah well chretien and moi enjoyed those huge majorities due to the reform splitting the vote....

i looked at the '88 election and if you combine the NDP and liberal votes its 51% of the popular vote to the PC's 41%. and throughout the liberal majorities in the 90's and 2000 the ndp + liberal split always combined for more of the popular vote than the reform/alliance + PC split. so you're comments about how the liberal majorities were due to the reform splitting the "vote" are inaccurate. because our system isn't one of proportional representation, you could say the reform split the seats, but the popular vote was still on the side of the NDP/liberal split.

 

[Dreadful Nonsense]

i looked at the '88 election and if you combine the NDP and liberal votes its 51% of the popular vote to the PC's 41%. and throughout the liberal majorities in the 90's and 2000 the ndp + liberal split always combined for more of the popular vote than the reform/alliance + PC split. so you're comments about how the liberal majorities were due to the reform splitting the "vote" are inaccurate. because our system isn't one of proportional representation, you could say the reform split the seats, but the popular vote was still on the side of the NDP/liberal split.

yeah well popular vote is another non starter in this set up.....all yer figuring there won't do you any good....i see where you are going with this but this does not get one a PM

nighty night...hi colpy the reformer!!!waves....tosses stale halloween candy at him....