Yeah yeah yeah more Afganistan threads...well one more

[EastSideScotian]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/viewpoint/vp_storring/20060913.html

I invite you all to read that link. I think the Soldier who writes the artical has made some good points, Now nay sayers and so on id like to hear your thoughts on this artical, because even if I didnt youd give it to me anyway

and also who agrees with this fella, I know I think he has put a reason behind the mission.

 

[United_Nations]

Helping them fight back is the coalition. We are not an "occupation force" as some even here in Canada have stated, but backers of the legitimate Afghanistan government, which was voted in by a huge majority of Afghans who wanted their first democracy in 25 years.

Under the Taliban, Afghanistan stepped back in time rather than forward. There were mass executions and beatings, and thousands of Afghans simply disappeared. In an effort to remove anything that did not fall under the Taliban's view of acceptable to Islam, museums, universities and places of culture such as the Bamiyan Buddha statues were destroyed.

One of my interpreters on Roto 4 told me of a professor he knew who had ripped a number of valuable paintings to pieces, hid them to keep them from being burned. Once the Taliban were overthrown, the pieces were then put back together. Had the professor been caught, he would have been executed on the spot for defying a Taliban edict.

The Taliban ruled by the gun, and controlled the population through fear and suffering. This is the only thing they know, and even now as they slowly lose their grip on Afghanistan and their former strongholds in the south, they continue to try to force the population to support them through suicide bombings, the burning and rocketing of schools, and attacks on Afghan and coalition forces.

It is the action of a dying and desperate force. They are not yet ineffective, as witnessed by Canadian and coalition deaths, but are slowly dying as the Afghan people show they no longer want the Taliban — and they show this by simply carrying on. Something so simple, such as picking up the pieces, reopening bombed stores, going to school and to work, speaks a message the Taliban cannot stand, and that is this: They are no longer wanted.

It won't be an easy struggle by any means, but it is something we must finish and see through to the end. If we abandon the Afghan people now, the Taliban will use their tactics of fear and suffering to gain a more powerful hold on Afghanistan and quite possibly create a more dangerous safe haven for terrorists than was witnessed in 2001, putting even more of us in danger in the global war on terror.

Staying the course is the only option. It is what the Afghans need, it is what Canada and the world needs, and it is

If only the government of Afghanistan, who are war criminals, war lords, rapists, and drug dealers want you in to protect because they can only control Kabul nothing else, then only in their eyes will you be seen as helpers.

However, in an operation if you kill a whole family they will think of you as occupiers.

The Taliban can't come back into power, yes, however the corrupt, war-criminal drug-lord packed governmenyt of Kabul can't remain either.

 

[Colpy]

Thank you.

Good piece.

 

[United_Nations]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

and to add :roll:

 

[I think not]

Mr. United_Nations, the UN has endorsed the Afghanistan government as being the de facto authority in the country. International organizations monitored the elections and gave it a pass. The UN authorized a peacekeeping force. Non-profit organizations are in there assisting in any way they can.

It is highly arrogant of you to assume you know better than the Afghan people. Get your head out of your ass.

 

[Zzarchov]

While we may consider rapists, drug dealers and warlords evil people..It should tell you something about what the Taliban truly are when the afghan people would rather be run by this Kabal of Kabul than the Taliban.

if nothing else, that fact should convince us to help the Afghanis out.

 

[EastSideScotian]

Helping them fight back is the coalition. We are not an "occupation force" as some even here in Canada have stated, but backers of the legitimate Afghanistan government, which was voted in by a huge majority of Afghans who wanted their first democracy in 25 years.

Under the Taliban, Afghanistan stepped back in time rather than forward. There were mass executions and beatings, and thousands of Afghans simply disappeared. In an effort to remove anything that did not fall under the Taliban's view of acceptable to Islam, museums, universities and places of culture such as the Bamiyan Buddha statues were destroyed.

One of my interpreters on Roto 4 told me of a professor he knew who had ripped a number of valuable paintings to pieces, hid them to keep them from being burned. Once the Taliban were overthrown, the pieces were then put back together. Had the professor been caught, he would have been executed on the spot for defying a Taliban edict.

The Taliban ruled by the gun, and controlled the population through fear and suffering. This is the only thing they know, and even now as they slowly lose their grip on Afghanistan and their former strongholds in the south, they continue to try to force the population to support them through suicide bombings, the burning and rocketing of schools, and attacks on Afghan and coalition forces.

It is the action of a dying and desperate force. They are not yet ineffective, as witnessed by Canadian and coalition deaths, but are slowly dying as the Afghan people show they no longer want the Taliban — and they show this by simply carrying on. Something so simple, such as picking up the pieces, reopening bombed stores, going to school and to work, speaks a message the Taliban cannot stand, and that is this: They are no longer wanted.

It won't be an easy struggle by any means, but it is something we must finish and see through to the end. If we abandon the Afghan people now, the Taliban will use their tactics of fear and suffering to gain a more powerful hold on Afghanistan and quite possibly create a more dangerous safe haven for terrorists than was witnessed in 2001, putting even more of us in danger in the global war on terror.

Staying the course is the only option. It is what the Afghans need, it is what Canada and the world needs, and it is

If only the government of Afghanistan, who are war criminals, war lords, rapists, and drug dealers want you in to protect because they can only control Kabul nothing else, then only in their eyes will you be seen as helpers.

However, in an operation if you kill a whole family they will think of you as occupiers.

The Taliban can't come back into power, yes, however the corrupt, war-criminal drug-lord packed governmenyt of Kabul can't remain either.

What? you seem to forget the people of Afganistain Voted for their Current Government, they didnt vote for the taliban.

 

[United_Nations]

What? you seem to forget the people of Afganistain Voted for their Current Government, they didnt vote for the taliban.

By god, Sherlock, they voted for most of the people in office because the huys in office now had the weapons, the people and the resources to kill you if you did not vote their way. Now I don't know you, but was there a study done like maybe 2 to three months after the election to see what might have happened to some people who did not vot someone's way. Not likely. They could be six feet under right now or in prison, for no charge at all which is very common in Afghanistan now adays.

 

[United_Nations]

Mr. United_Nations, the UN has endorsed the Afghanistan government as being the de facto authority in the country. International organizations monitored the elections and gave it a pass. The UN authorized a peacekeeping force. Non-profit organizations are in there assisting in any way they can.

It is highly arrogant of you to assume you know better than the Afghan people. Get your head out of your ass.

Well they are not doing it fast enough. While they live in their nice houses that they built in Kabul and show them how great Western life is, a large percentage of Kabulians live on the street or bombed out places, and that is the best part of Afghanistan what about the small villages that may get a reconstruction team every 6 months to maybe paint a fence and place a few bricks here and there.

If you people are blind to what is occuring in Afghanistan with the anger that ordinary Afghans have to their government or lack of government (filled with murders, drug lords, war lords and war criminals, a known fact) then you must have your head where the sun doesn't shine.

 

[EastSideScotian]

What? you seem to forget the people of Afganistain Voted for their Current Government, they didnt vote for the taliban.

By god, Sherlock, they voted for most of the people in office because the huys in office now had the weapons, the people and the resources to kill you if you did not vote their way. Now I don't know you, but was there a study done like maybe 2 to three months after the election to see what might have happened to some people who did not vot someone's way. Not likely. They could be six feet under right now or in prison, for no charge at all which is very common in Afghanistan now adays.

Oh and where to you get this information? Id like to know. I was whatching CBC this morning, and they were talking about how in Kabul they are selling cd's and printed shirts dresses. Unlike with the old regime they could not even own a bissness to sell perfumes. Seems to me the people they voted for have a few things right..... personally I think you full of shit, and I want to see proof of your claims of Political pressure by death threats, are you aware the UN rant he election and screened all the candiates...? Clearly you arent...get with the facts.

 

[United_Nations]

My god Sherlock,

QUEBEC CITY - Malalai Joya, the youngest member of the Afghan National Assembly, today appeared at the NDP Federal Convention in Quebec City supporting Jack Layton and the NDP's criticism of the NATO-led mission in southern Afghanistan.

Joya, who was elected in 2005 in Farah province, has worked to protect women's rights and is the head of the Organization of Promoting Afghan Women's Capabilities. She brought a clear message: foreign troops in Afghanistan have not achieved any fundamental changes.

"When the entire nation is living under the shadow of the gun and warlordism, how can its women enjoy very basic freedoms?" asked Joya. "Contrary to the propaganda in certain Western media, Afghan women and men are not 'liberated' at all."

Joya expressed her sorrow for the deaths of Canadian soldiers, and voiced her support for Jack Layton and the NDP as they call for the withdrawal of Canadian troops from Afghanistan.

"I think that if Canada really wants to help Afghan people and bring positive changes, they must act independently, rather than becoming a tool for implementing the policies of the US government."

Joya noted that her country needs help to rid itself of corruption and to rebuild after years of violence, but she said that foreign soldiers under this mission are not the ones who will bring peace and stability to Afghanistan. Joya summed up her views in a single sentence:

"No nation can donate liberation to another nation."
http://www.ndp.ca/page/4194

And

Malalai Joya (born April 25, 1979) is the youngest Member of the Afghan Parliament. She was elected to the 249-seat National Assembly, or Wolesi Jirga in September 2005, as a representative of Farah Province. Malalai won the second highest number of votes in the province.

Malalai Joya rose to fame in December 2003 when, as an elected delegate to the Constitutional Loya Jirga, she spoke out publicly against the domination of warlords. Since then she has survived four assassination attempts, and travels in Afghanistan under a burqa and with armed guards.

World Pulse Magazine (Issue 1, 2005) wrote:

... When her time came to make her 3-minute statement, she tugged her black headscarf over her hair, stepped up to the microphone, and with emotional electricity made the speech that would alter her life.
After she spoke, there was a moment of stunned silence. Then there was an uproar. Male mujahideen, some who literally had guns at their feet, rushed towards her, shouting. She was brought under the protection of UN security forces.

In a nation where few dare to say the word "warlord" aloud, Joya had spoken fiercely against a proposal to appoint high clergy members and fundamentalist leaders to guide planning groups. She objected that several of those religious leaders were war criminals who should be tried for their actions—not national heroes to influence the new government.

Despite the commands of Assembly Chairman, Joya refused to apologize.

Today, as a result of her legendary actions, Malalai Joya has become popular hero in Afghanistan. She speaks at rallies where thousands of people carry her photo high.

She incites debates on radio talk shows, works with President Hamid Karzai, and has stirred unprecedented numbers of women in her province to participate in public gatherings such as International Women's Day.

Joya's reputation is increasingly crossing the borders of her home province where she was already respected as a courageous leader who spoke out under the Taliban and worked to establish orphanages and health clinics since 1998.


Although Joya receives numerous death threats and her home has been bombed, she chooses to remain primarily in Afghanistan. She tirelessly presses her case against the former rulers of her nation, and she's making inroads. in 2004, she and a delegation of 50 tribal elders persuaded President Karzai to dismiss a provincial governor who was a former Taliban commander.

She is the daughter of a former medical student who lost a foot while fighting against the Soviet Union (which invaded and occupied Afghanistan from 1979 - 1989). Malalai was 4 years old when her family fled Afghanistan in 1982 to the refugee camps of Iran and then Pakistan. She finished her education in Pakistan and began teaching literacy courses to other women at age 19. After the Soviets left, Malalai Joya returned to Afghanistan in 1998 during the Taliban's reign. During that time she established an orphanage and health clinic, and was soon a vocal opponent of the Taliban.

Malalai Joya is also director of the non-governmental group, "Organisation of Promoting Afghan Women's Capabilities" (OPAWC) [1] in Western Afghanistan provinces of Herat and Farah. She is married to a Kabul-based student of agriculture and has six sisters and three brothers.


According to Human Rights Watch "... up to 60% of deputies in the lower house, are directly or indirectly connected to current and past human rights abuses." She has a tough time in the parliament, when she presents her comments against warlords and criminals, other MPs disturb her speech and the speaker of the house turn off her microphone so she could not continue. The above picture is from a session of the parliament on April l17, 2006 when she was stopped. Its details and movie clip could be found at DCMJThe BBC has called Joya "the most famous woman in Afghanistan." She has survived numerous assassination attempts and continues to speak out against the abuses of warlords and drug lords in the Parliament and cabinet. In an interview with BBC News (January 27, 2006) she says: "They will kill me but they will not kill my voice, because it will be the voice of all Afghan women. You can cut the flower, but you cannot stop the coming of spring."

The Washington Post on March 17, 2006 in an article about Joya wrote: "Her truth is that warlords should not be permitted to hide behind "the mask of democracy to hold on to their chairs" and their pernicious pursuits at the expense of poor, "barefoot" Afghans who remain voiceless and disillusioned. The warlords are corrupt "war criminals" who should be tried, and incorrigible "drug dealers" who brought the country to its knees, she said."

On May 8, 2006, world media reported a news from within the parliamnet when she was attacked. AP wrote: "Malalai Joya was physically and verbally attacked by her colleagues in Afghanistan's parliament yesterday after she said that some of her fellow lawmakers were warlords and shouldn't be allowed to sit in parliament. “I said there are two kinds of mujahedeed in Afghanistan,” Joya told the Associated Press. “One kind fought for independence, which I respect, but the other kind destroyed the country and killed 60,000 people.” Several members of parliament threatened Joya with death and hurled empty plastic water bottles at her as the room erupted into a melee. Joya was unhurt as moderate members of parliament surrounded her for protection."

See for details: The Chicago Tribune, The Seattle Times, Ms. Magazine, Times Online, Feminist Majority Foundation, Zee News, The Washington Post, The Boston Globe, CBS News, The Guardian, ABC News, Los Angeles Times, Gulf Times, Middle East Times and many more sources.

In one of her speeches in the USA she says: "Never again will I whisper in the shadows of intimidation. I am but a symbol of my people's struggle and a servant to their cause. And if I were to be killed for what I believe in, then let my blood be the beacon for emancipation and my words a revolutionary paradigm for generations to come."

In December 2004, the Valle d'Aosta province of Italy awarded her the International Women of the Year 2004 Award.

And on March 15, 2006 Mr. Tom Bates, Mayor of Berkeley presented a certificate of honor to her for "her continued work on behalf of human rights".

On March 2006 she got the "Gwangju Award for Human Rights 2006" from May 18th Foundation in South Korea.

[edit]
Joya's 2-minute historical speech
Her speech in the Loya Jirga Meeting, Kabul, Afghanistan (December 17, 2003):

My name is Malalai Joya from Farah Province. By the permission of the esteemed attendees, and by the name of God and the colored-shroud martyrs of the path of freedom, I would like to speak for a couple of minutes.
My criticism on all my compatriots is that why are they allowing the legitimacy and legality of this Loya Jerga come under question with the presence of those felons who brought our country to this state.

I feel pity and I feel very sorry that those who call Loya Jerga an infidel basis equivalent to blasphemy after coming here their words are accepted, or please see the committees and what people are whispering about. The chairman of every committee is already selected. Why do you not take all these criminals to one committee so that we see what they want for this nation. These were those who turned our country into the nucleus of national and international wars. They were the most anti-women people in the society who wanted to [makes pause] who brought our country to this state and they intend to do the same again. I believe that it is a mistake to test those already being tested. They should be taken to national and international court. If they are forgiven by our people, the bare-footed Afghan people, our history will never forgive them. They are all recorded in the history of our country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malalai_Joya

Read it and weep Shitlock.

 

[United_Nations]

What? you seem to forget the people of Afganistain Voted for their Current Government, they didnt vote for the taliban.

By god, Sherlock, they voted for most of the people in office because the huys in office now had the weapons, the people and the resources to kill you if you did not vote their way. Now I don't know you, but was there a study done like maybe 2 to three months after the election to see what might have happened to some people who did not vot someone's way. Not likely. They could be six feet under right now or in prison, for no charge at all which is very common in Afghanistan now adays.

Oh and where to you get this information? Id like to know. I was whatching CBC this morning, and they were talking about how in Kabul they are selling cd's and printed shirts dresses. Unlike with the old regime they could not even own a bissness to sell perfumes. Seems to me the people they voted for have a few things right..... personally I think you full of shit, and I want to see proof of your claims of Political pressure by death threats, are you aware the UN rant he election and screened all the candiates...? Clearly you arent...get with the facts.

What kind of BS are you talking about. They got rid of a fraction of the war lords.

Are you trying to tell me there are no drug lords, war lords and qwar criminals in the Afghani parliment and that Kabul can control all of Afghanistan, not f*ing likely. Its like the regime in Iraq which is made up of militiamen and murderers, (torture cells anyone), they don't control anything and they are as corrupt as hell.

 

[United_Nations]

Also

According to Human Rights Watch "... up to 60% of deputies in the lower house, are directly or indirectly connected to current and past human rights abuses." She has a tough time in the parliament, when she presents her comments against warlords and criminals, other MPs disturb her speech and the speaker of the house turn off her microphone so she could not continue. The above picture is from a session of the parliament on April l17, 2006 when she was stopped. Its details and movie clip could be found at DCMJ

So live in hopeless believe that everything the coalition is doing is good, and everyone is happy and running round with flowers, because it isn't. It is not good for 85% or more of Afghanis, and the mission in Kandarhar is not helping

 

[I think not]

Mr. United_Nations, the UN has endorsed the Afghanistan government as being the de facto authority in the country. International organizations monitored the elections and gave it a pass. The UN authorized a peacekeeping force. Non-profit organizations are in there assisting in any way they can.

It is highly arrogant of you to assume you know better than the Afghan people. Get your head out of your ass.

Well they are not doing it fast enough. While they live in their nice houses that they built in Kabul and show them how great Western life is, a large percentage of Kabulians live on the street or bombed out places, and that is the best part of Afghanistan what about the small villages that may get a reconstruction team every 6 months to maybe paint a fence and place a few bricks here and there.

If you people are blind to what is occuring in Afghanistan with the anger that ordinary Afghans have to their government or lack of government (filled with murders, drug lords, war lords and war criminals, a known fact) then you must have your head where the sun doesn't shine.

Oh I'm not the blind one, but apparently you are. Germany was bombed to oblivion and took over 15 years to get it at a civilized level again, Japan closer to 20 years.

What's your boggle?

 

[Curiosity]

East Side Scotian

Good uplifting article - too bad you felt defensive posting here as if you were doing something wrong.

I am grateful you had the courage to do so and that I and others could read the article - I had to look twice to make sure it was the CBC which printed it. At least one writer at the leading edge of the work in Afghanistan is getting the message home.

I have found the military blogs directly from the middle east the most informative news rather than having to do through the ideological filter of appeasement much of the media choose.... direct from those in battle is best.... I think it is sad the Canadian military do not have that ability to write their stories for their countrymen to read.

United Nations

Your passionate verbosity gives nothing of value - no solution - just cut and run - don' t look don't see hysteria.

What a "fine attitude" you have. You mock those fine people in the filthy sand doing the dirty work you feel beneath you.

The warlords would love your type. Bend over and kiss their feet.

 

[EastSideScotian]

East Side Scotian

Good uplifting article - too bad you felt defensive posting here as if you were doing something wrong.

I am grateful you had the courage to do so and that I and others could read the article - I had to look twice to make sure it was the CBC which printed it. At least one writer at the leading edge of the work in Afghanistan is getting the message home.

I have found the military blogs directly from the middle east the most informative news rather than having to do through the ideological filter of appeasement much of the media choose.... direct from those in battle is best.... I think it is sad the Canadian military do not have that ability to write their stories for their countrymen to read.

United Nations

Your passionate verbosity gives nothing of value - no solution - just cut and run - don' t look don't see hysteria.

What a "fine attitude" you have. You mock those fine people in the filthy sand doing the dirty work you feel beneath you.

The warlords would love your type. Bend over and kiss their feet.

Amen to that, Nations also has alot of things wrong about the Afgani Government, also Everything one posts that is remotely supportive of the War or troops gets slammed or responed by anti-war fools who usally have thier facts and morals all twisted up, and want to start an arguement over anything. but then again its a forum what do i expect.

 

[BitWhys]

right. and the guy who wrote the op-ed has HIS facts straight because he has the word "Sergeant" in front of his name even though he hasn't been there for three years and his facts conveniently coincide with what he needs to believe in order to avoid therapy.

there's a word for that.

that word is Fascism.

 

[EastSideScotian]

Russell Storring is a Sergeant with the Canadian Army, and has been a signals operator for the 15 years he has been in the military. He recently returned from his second tour of duty in Afghanistan, having served there previously in 2003, and with the UN in Rwanda in 1994. His columns give a first-person account from the field and the life of a soldier.

He has been theri for more than a year, and look he was also in rawanda...hmmmmmmmm Bitwhy did you read the aritical?

 

[BitWhys]

...Your passionate verbosity gives nothing of value - no solution - just cut and run - don' t look don't see hysteria...

solutions?

R2P Chapter 5 is a good place to start. no need to re-invent the wheel.

 

[BitWhys]

Re: RE: Yeah yeah yeah more Afganistan threads...well one mo

Russell Storring is a Sergeant with the Canadian Army, and has been a signals operator for the 15 years he has been in the military. He recently returned from his second tour of duty in Afghanistan, having served there previously in 2003, and with the UN in Rwanda in 1994. His columns give a first-person account from the field and the life of a soldier.

He has been theri for more than a year, and look he was also in rawanda...hmmmmmmmm Bitwhy did you read the aritical?

whatever

all the more reason to wonder about the extent of his tunnel vision.

the locals might (heh) have a different idea about the CF's status as an "occupy force".