Steven Hawking's Tutor
Posts: 4,838 
Location: Independent Palestine
Location: Independent Palestine
June 16th, 2006, 05:53 PM
I believe a group, now this doesn't have to tie into Muslims but anyone can have their own religious, and social identity in Canada at least and still be a Canadian citizen.
To bring up Islam for a moment, the Bible which is the Christian holy book has been basically edited a few times, maybe it is time to edit the Quran to times of today.
Also what does it have to do with a veil or a Kirpan, or a Turban if you are Canadian, does it really matter??
I believe a group, now this doesn't have to tie into Muslims but anyone can have their own religious, and social identity in Canada at least and still be a Canadian citizen.
To bring up Islam for a moment, the Bible which is the Christian holy book has been basically edited a few times, maybe it is time to edit the Quran to times of today.
Also what does it have to do with a veil or a Kirpan, or a Turban if you are Canadian, does it really matter??
Member
Posts: 246
June 16th, 2006, 08:47 PM
I heard an interesting argument today,regarding Canada and its' multiculturalism.
The speaker was saying that immigrants to many European countries do not,even after third and fourth generations,feel they are citizens of that country(Germnay,France,Holland).Part of that,he reasoned,was that the cultural and national identities of citizens of each of those countries was so strong that there wasn't(and isn't) room for inclusiveness.
He said that Canada,without such a strong national identity ,makes it easier for many cultures to co-exist.
I heard an interesting argument today,regarding Canada and its' multiculturalism.
The speaker was saying that immigrants to many European countries do not,even after third and fourth generations,feel they are citizens of that country(Germnay,France,Holland).Part of that,he reasoned,was that the cultural and national identities of citizens of each of those countries was so strong that there wasn't(and isn't) room for inclusiveness.
He said that Canada,without such a strong national identity ,makes it easier for many cultures to co-exist.
Genius
Posts: 985
Location: CsL, Mtl, Qc, Ca, NA, Er, SS,MW, Un
Location: CsL, Mtl, Qc, Ca, NA, Er, SS,MW, Un
June 16th, 2006, 11:05 PM
Quoting
No need to chang Quran. It's quite enough to push religious people out of politics.
...
To bring up Islam for a moment, the Bible which is the Christian holy book has been basically edited a few times, maybe it is time to edit the Quran to times of today.
...
To bring up Islam for a moment, the Bible which is the Christian holy book has been basically edited a few times, maybe it is time to edit the Quran to times of today.
...
Knows Too Much
Posts: 2,004
Location: Proud to be in Alberta
Location: Proud to be in Alberta
June 16th, 2006, 11:17 PM
I don't know the answer to this, but maybe if we quit having hyphenated Canadians (French-Canadians, Anglo-Canadians, African-Canadians, First-Nation-Canadians), maybe we could all just be Canadians. Celebrate your history, but embrace the future as Canadians.
I don't know the answer to this, but maybe if we quit having hyphenated Canadians (French-Canadians, Anglo-Canadians, African-Canadians, First-Nation-Canadians), maybe we could all just be Canadians. Celebrate your history, but embrace the future as Canadians.
Knows Too Much
Posts: 2,004
Location: Proud to be in Alberta
Location: Proud to be in Alberta
June 16th, 2006, 11:40 PM
Quoting
Personally, I will accept and respect anyone. What I get cranked over is people coming to Canada for supposedly a better life in many cases, but then try to live as if they were still in their original country. Like I said, remember and celebrate your past, but if you come to live in Canada, embrace the future of being a Canadian.
bluealberta
if the person is not Canadian want to be called Canadian. The question is if the Canadians will consider him or her one of theirs?
if the person is not Canadian want to be called Canadian. The question is if the Canadians will consider him or her one of theirs?
Stuck in Ontario...bah
Posts: 706
Location: Petawawa Ontario
Location: Petawawa Ontario
June 17th, 2006, 09:48 AM
Well we arent a Melting pot....Which has its benifits, but as we have seen in the last few weeks, it also has a large disadvantage.
I feel if someone comes to this Country, they should forfiet their past idenitey with their former homeland, and take on a Canadian perspective....Not getting rid of their culture or their tradtions, but they need to realize they are no longer attached to their last Country, and that thye are now Canadian and should be for Canada, not against, or atleast if they disagree with some of Canadas Action, be a Canadian about it, not a Terrorist.
Well we arent a Melting pot....Which has its benifits, but as we have seen in the last few weeks, it also has a large disadvantage.
I feel if someone comes to this Country, they should forfiet their past idenitey with their former homeland, and take on a Canadian perspective....Not getting rid of their culture or their tradtions, but they need to realize they are no longer attached to their last Country, and that thye are now Canadian and should be for Canada, not against, or atleast if they disagree with some of Canadas Action, be a Canadian about it, not a Terrorist.
Council Member
Posts: 1,571
Location: Changchun, China
Location: Changchun, China
June 17th, 2006, 10:54 AM
Some of the arguments here are totally unrealistic. I'm a Canadian living in China, I love it, and am seriously considering staying long-term. Yet guess what. I was raised French Canadian. I still remember primary school french kiddy songs, speaking to my mother in French, going to church (even if I'm not Christian, nor have ever been, I still associate the memory to those I love, etc.). One's past is a fundamental part of who he is as a human being. I live in China, and might even consider staying long-term. I thus make the effort to elarn the Chinese language and culture. That still does not change the fact however that I also have my own languages, culture, faith, etc. Nothing could every take that away short of killing me.
Why would immigrants to Canada be any different? It's something you simply cannot understand until you find yourself in the other person's shoes. The idea that one can simply blank his mind, emotions, past, etc. as if he were pressing the delete button on a computer is simplistic bordering on the childish.
Some of the arguments here are totally unrealistic. I'm a Canadian living in China, I love it, and am seriously considering staying long-term. Yet guess what. I was raised French Canadian. I still remember primary school french kiddy songs, speaking to my mother in French, going to church (even if I'm not Christian, nor have ever been, I still associate the memory to those I love, etc.). One's past is a fundamental part of who he is as a human being. I live in China, and might even consider staying long-term. I thus make the effort to elarn the Chinese language and culture. That still does not change the fact however that I also have my own languages, culture, faith, etc. Nothing could every take that away short of killing me.
Why would immigrants to Canada be any different? It's something you simply cannot understand until you find yourself in the other person's shoes. The idea that one can simply blank his mind, emotions, past, etc. as if he were pressing the delete button on a computer is simplistic bordering on the childish.
Newbie
Posts: 25
June 17th, 2006, 11:14 AM
No one is asking immigrants to give up their identy, culture or religion." But when in Rome" My home was built long before you were born, I like it the way it is and I don't want to change it. If you don't like the way it is, stay where your are and make the changes you like from within.
But then if you still decide to come to my home.
I will treat you with respect but
don't come into my house and expect me to change the rules because I have allowed you to move in. If you don't like my rules stay where you are. I don't want you to bring in the excess baggage from your old home. You have to learn my language in order to communicate with me in my home. If I went to your home I would be expected to know the language and obey your rules. I have no problem with you practicing you religion, just do not expect me to live by its precepts.
Once you get here if you don't like the way I run my home you are free to leave.
No one is asking immigrants to give up their identy, culture or religion." But when in Rome" My home was built long before you were born, I like it the way it is and I don't want to change it. If you don't like the way it is, stay where your are and make the changes you like from within.
But then if you still decide to come to my home.
I will treat you with respect but
don't come into my house and expect me to change the rules because I have allowed you to move in. If you don't like my rules stay where you are. I don't want you to bring in the excess baggage from your old home. You have to learn my language in order to communicate with me in my home. If I went to your home I would be expected to know the language and obey your rules. I have no problem with you practicing you religion, just do not expect me to live by its precepts.
Once you get here if you don't like the way I run my home you are free to leave.
Stuck in Ontario...bah
Posts: 706
Location: Petawawa Ontario
Location: Petawawa Ontario
June 17th, 2006, 12:41 PM
I feel the same way, if you come here, thats cool but we made this place the way it is for a purpose, you came here for some reason, you come here you better be respectful.
Quoting
Well Put.
No one is asking immigrants to give up their identy, culture or religion." But when in Rome" My home was built long before you were born, I like it the way it is and I don't want to change it. If you don't like the way it is, stay where your are and make the changes you like from within.
But then if you still decide to come to my home.
I will treat you with respect but
don't come into my house and expect me to change the rules because I have allowed you to move in. If you don't like my rules stay where you are. I don't want you to bring in the excess baggage from your old home. You have to learn my language in order to communicate with me in my home. If I went to your home I would be expected to know the language and obey your rules. I have no problem with you practicing you religion, just do not expect me to live by its precepts.
Once you get here if you don't like the way I run my home you are free to leave.
But then if you still decide to come to my home.
I will treat you with respect but
don't come into my house and expect me to change the rules because I have allowed you to move in. If you don't like my rules stay where you are. I don't want you to bring in the excess baggage from your old home. You have to learn my language in order to communicate with me in my home. If I went to your home I would be expected to know the language and obey your rules. I have no problem with you practicing you religion, just do not expect me to live by its precepts.
Once you get here if you don't like the way I run my home you are free to leave.
I feel the same way, if you come here, thats cool but we made this place the way it is for a purpose, you came here for some reason, you come here you better be respectful.
House Member
Posts: 3,167
June 17th, 2006, 01:22 PM
The China analogy doesn't hold water. If you emigrate to China - indeed, if they accept such a plan - you will be joining an immense body of people who celebrate an established domestic culture. Canada is a small country population-wise, gambling with its future. It is easy for immigrant communities here to dominate an area and move ever more boldly larger. Canada has no plan to preserve its traditions and is wide open to manipulation once immigrant communities exceed some hundreds of thousands in size. Canada doesn't seem to be able to say 'No.' Time it learned.
The China analogy doesn't hold water. If you emigrate to China - indeed, if they accept such a plan - you will be joining an immense body of people who celebrate an established domestic culture. Canada is a small country population-wise, gambling with its future. It is easy for immigrant communities here to dominate an area and move ever more boldly larger. Canada has no plan to preserve its traditions and is wide open to manipulation once immigrant communities exceed some hundreds of thousands in size. Canada doesn't seem to be able to say 'No.' Time it learned.
Electoral Member
Posts: 285
Location: Ontario, Sadly
Location: Ontario, Sadly
June 17th, 2006, 01:49 PM
Quoting
I agree entirely and would add that by changint the home you are taking away the very thing that attracted you to it in the first place.
No one is asking immigrants to give up their identy, culture or religion." But when in Rome" My home was built long before you were born, I like it the way it is and I don't want to change it. If you don't like the way it is, stay where your are and make the changes you like from within.
But then if you still decide to come to my home.
I will treat you with respect but
don't come into my house and expect me to change the rules because I have allowed you to move in. If you don't like my rules stay where you are. I don't want you to bring in the excess baggage from your old home. You have to learn my language in order to communicate with me in my home. If I went to your home I would be expected to know the language and obey your rules. I have no problem with you practicing you religion, just do not expect me to live by its precepts.
Once you get here if you don't like the way I run my home you are free to leave.
But then if you still decide to come to my home.
I will treat you with respect but
don't come into my house and expect me to change the rules because I have allowed you to move in. If you don't like my rules stay where you are. I don't want you to bring in the excess baggage from your old home. You have to learn my language in order to communicate with me in my home. If I went to your home I would be expected to know the language and obey your rules. I have no problem with you practicing you religion, just do not expect me to live by its precepts.
Once you get here if you don't like the way I run my home you are free to leave.
Electoral Member
Posts: 285
Location: Ontario, Sadly
Location: Ontario, Sadly
June 17th, 2006, 02:00 PM
i was thinking out loud a second ago and came up with an outrageous idea but I think it would be helpful.
Manditory military service for 1 or 2 years starting at 18. If you don't want to serve as a peacekeeper or a defender of Canadian values that's fine, your family can return to their country of origin. In return for your service you get free university for two years.
It would never fly in Canada. We don't make people do anything. However it would ensure that youngsters who struggle with their identity would have some guidance through that difficult time. Now drop and give me 40.
i was thinking out loud a second ago and came up with an outrageous idea but I think it would be helpful.
Manditory military service for 1 or 2 years starting at 18. If you don't want to serve as a peacekeeper or a defender of Canadian values that's fine, your family can return to their country of origin. In return for your service you get free university for two years.
It would never fly in Canada. We don't make people do anything. However it would ensure that youngsters who struggle with their identity would have some guidance through that difficult time. Now drop and give me 40.
House Member
Posts: 3,167
June 17th, 2006, 02:09 PM
The military idea wouldn't fly but it's a decent try. We do need something that will help young people of various backgrounds celebrate community, celebrate what it is they hold in common. In the last two years especially multiculturalism and its ideals and practice in Canada have faced increasing scrutiny and resistance. The Trudeau plan to crush Canada's traditional two solitudes has been implemented. Too bad he didn't live long enough to see the damage and offer some solutions.
The military idea wouldn't fly but it's a decent try. We do need something that will help young people of various backgrounds celebrate community, celebrate what it is they hold in common. In the last two years especially multiculturalism and its ideals and practice in Canada have faced increasing scrutiny and resistance. The Trudeau plan to crush Canada's traditional two solitudes has been implemented. Too bad he didn't live long enough to see the damage and offer some solutions.
Bright Spark
Posts: 443
Location: Sarnia
Location: Sarnia
June 17th, 2006, 05:27 PM
I have been checking out this forum on and off for some time now, but have resisted the urge to register or contribute. This particular thread has caused me to forego that hesitation and put forth my two cents.
I would just like to comment on the idea that a country like Canada is analogous to a personal home; it is not. Canada is a free and democratic society. We encourage population growth through immigration and we make every effort possible to ensure that new Canadians are as welcome and vital to to our prosperity as any other natural born citizen. We have laws that restrict how a person can seek to change the system, but Canadian people are free to actively seek any cultural or societal changes that they may deem fit.
Canada is not a "when in Rome" kind of country, and I believe that Canada would lose the very qualities that it make it a great country if it were ever to become such a place. We have established in law certain fundamental rights and freedoms, and although we don't protect our rights and freedoms with the same vigour as our neighbours to the south, we do make strident efforts to ensure that Canadians are people first and Canadians second.
We do, as a nation, have certain customs and traditions, but we are also open to new ideas and are not always so quick to dismiss the potential for, or the necessity of, change. If a foreigner were to choose Canada as their new home, I would not be so quick to expect that the new Canadian conform to my customs or traditions, nor would I be so quick to reject any of the immigrants customs or traditions that I happen to believe will benefit Canada as a whole.
I suppose I don't really see Canada as a "melting pot," but rather as an emerging pot. That is to say that Canada is really a country that is just growing up and hasn't fully decided who or what it is yet. Speaking as just one Canadian, I enjoy and encourage new Canadians to bring their customs and traditions to Canada, and to help mold one of the greatest countries on the face of the planet.
I have been checking out this forum on and off for some time now, but have resisted the urge to register or contribute. This particular thread has caused me to forego that hesitation and put forth my two cents.
I would just like to comment on the idea that a country like Canada is analogous to a personal home; it is not. Canada is a free and democratic society. We encourage population growth through immigration and we make every effort possible to ensure that new Canadians are as welcome and vital to to our prosperity as any other natural born citizen. We have laws that restrict how a person can seek to change the system, but Canadian people are free to actively seek any cultural or societal changes that they may deem fit.
Canada is not a "when in Rome" kind of country, and I believe that Canada would lose the very qualities that it make it a great country if it were ever to become such a place. We have established in law certain fundamental rights and freedoms, and although we don't protect our rights and freedoms with the same vigour as our neighbours to the south, we do make strident efforts to ensure that Canadians are people first and Canadians second.
We do, as a nation, have certain customs and traditions, but we are also open to new ideas and are not always so quick to dismiss the potential for, or the necessity of, change. If a foreigner were to choose Canada as their new home, I would not be so quick to expect that the new Canadian conform to my customs or traditions, nor would I be so quick to reject any of the immigrants customs or traditions that I happen to believe will benefit Canada as a whole.
I suppose I don't really see Canada as a "melting pot," but rather as an emerging pot. That is to say that Canada is really a country that is just growing up and hasn't fully decided who or what it is yet. Speaking as just one Canadian, I enjoy and encourage new Canadians to bring their customs and traditions to Canada, and to help mold one of the greatest countries on the face of the planet.
Genius
Posts: 985
Location: CsL, Mtl, Qc, Ca, NA, Er, SS,MW, Un
Location: CsL, Mtl, Qc, Ca, NA, Er, SS,MW, Un
June 17th, 2006, 06:05 PM
Quoting
I agree.
I have been checking out this forum on and off for some time now, but have resisted the urge to register or contribute. This particular thread has caused me to forego that hesitation and put forth my two cents.
I would just like to comment on the idea that a country like Canada is analogous to a personal home; it is not. Canada is a free and democratic society. We encourage population growth through immigration and we make every effort possible to ensure that new Canadians are as welcome and vital to to our prosperity as any other natural born citizen. We have laws that restrict how a person can seek to change the system, but Canadian people are free to actively seek any cultural or societal changes that they may deem fit.
Canada is not a "when in Rome" kind of country, and I believe that Canada would lose the very qualities that it make it a great country if it were ever to become such a place. We have established in law certain fundamental rights and freedoms, and although we don't protect our rights and freedoms with the same vigour as our neighbours to the south, we do make strident efforts to ensure that Canadians are people first and Canadians second.
We do, as a nation, have certain customs and traditions, but we are also open to new ideas and are not always so quick to dismiss the potential for, or the necessity of, change. If a foreigner were to choose Canada as their new home, I would not be so quick to expect that the new Canadian conform to my customs or traditions, nor would I be so quick to reject any of the immigrants customs or traditions that I happen to believe will benefit Canada as a whole.
I suppose I don't really see Canada as a "melting pot," but rather as an emerging pot. That is to say that Canada is really a country that is just growing up and hasn't fully decided who or what it is yet. Speaking as just one Canadian, I enjoy and encourage new Canadians to bring their customs and traditions to Canada, and to help mold one of the greatest countries on the face of the planet.
I would just like to comment on the idea that a country like Canada is analogous to a personal home; it is not. Canada is a free and democratic society. We encourage population growth through immigration and we make every effort possible to ensure that new Canadians are as welcome and vital to to our prosperity as any other natural born citizen. We have laws that restrict how a person can seek to change the system, but Canadian people are free to actively seek any cultural or societal changes that they may deem fit.
Canada is not a "when in Rome" kind of country, and I believe that Canada would lose the very qualities that it make it a great country if it were ever to become such a place. We have established in law certain fundamental rights and freedoms, and although we don't protect our rights and freedoms with the same vigour as our neighbours to the south, we do make strident efforts to ensure that Canadians are people first and Canadians second.
We do, as a nation, have certain customs and traditions, but we are also open to new ideas and are not always so quick to dismiss the potential for, or the necessity of, change. If a foreigner were to choose Canada as their new home, I would not be so quick to expect that the new Canadian conform to my customs or traditions, nor would I be so quick to reject any of the immigrants customs or traditions that I happen to believe will benefit Canada as a whole.
I suppose I don't really see Canada as a "melting pot," but rather as an emerging pot. That is to say that Canada is really a country that is just growing up and hasn't fully decided who or what it is yet. Speaking as just one Canadian, I enjoy and encourage new Canadians to bring their customs and traditions to Canada, and to help mold one of the greatest countries on the face of the planet.
Newbie
Posts: 25
June 17th, 2006, 06:27 PM
Quoting
Good point!
Quoting
I agree entirely and would add that by changint the home you are taking away the very thing that attracted you to it in the first place.
No one is asking immigrants to give up their identy, culture or religion." But when in Rome" My home was built long before you were born, I like it the way it is and I don't want to change it. If you don't like the way it is, stay where your are and make the changes you like from within.
But then if you still decide to come to my home.
I will treat you with respect but
don't come into my house and expect me to change the rules because I have allowed you to move in. If you don't like my rules stay where you are. I don't want you to bring in the excess baggage from your old home. You have to learn my language in order to communicate with me in my home. If I went to your home I would be expected to know the language and obey your rules. I have no problem with you practicing you religion, just do not expect me to live by its precepts.
Once you get here if you don't like the way I run my home you are free to leave.
But then if you still decide to come to my home.
I will treat you with respect but
don't come into my house and expect me to change the rules because I have allowed you to move in. If you don't like my rules stay where you are. I don't want you to bring in the excess baggage from your old home. You have to learn my language in order to communicate with me in my home. If I went to your home I would be expected to know the language and obey your rules. I have no problem with you practicing you religion, just do not expect me to live by its precepts.
Once you get here if you don't like the way I run my home you are free to leave.
Steven Hawking's Tutor
Posts: 4,838
Location: Independent Palestine
Location: Independent Palestine
June 17th, 2006, 07:53 PM
Quoting
I agree with this statement right here.
I have been checking out this forum on and off for some time now, but have resisted the urge to register or contribute. This particular thread has caused me to forego that hesitation and put forth my two cents.
I would just like to comment on the idea that a country like Canada is analogous to a personal home; it is not. Canada is a free and democratic society. We encourage population growth through immigration and we make every effort possible to ensure that new Canadians are as welcome and vital to to our prosperity as any other natural born citizen. We have laws that restrict how a person can seek to change the system, but Canadian people are free to actively seek any cultural or societal changes that they may deem fit.
Canada is not a "when in Rome" kind of country, and I believe that Canada would lose the very qualities that it make it a great country if it were ever to become such a place. We have established in law certain fundamental rights and freedoms, and although we don't protect our rights and freedoms with the same vigour as our neighbours to the south, we do make strident efforts to ensure that Canadians are people first and Canadians second.
We do, as a nation, have certain customs and traditions, but we are also open to new ideas and are not always so quick to dismiss the potential for, or the necessity of, change. If a foreigner were to choose Canada as their new home, I would not be so quick to expect that the new Canadian conform to my customs or traditions, nor would I be so quick to reject any of the immigrants customs or traditions that I happen to believe will benefit Canada as a whole.
I suppose I don't really see Canada as a "melting pot," but rather as an emerging pot. That is to say that Canada is really a country that is just growing up and hasn't fully decided who or what it is yet. Speaking as just one Canadian, I enjoy and encourage new Canadians to bring their customs and traditions to Canada, and to help mold one of the greatest countries on the face of the planet.
I would just like to comment on the idea that a country like Canada is analogous to a personal home; it is not. Canada is a free and democratic society. We encourage population growth through immigration and we make every effort possible to ensure that new Canadians are as welcome and vital to to our prosperity as any other natural born citizen. We have laws that restrict how a person can seek to change the system, but Canadian people are free to actively seek any cultural or societal changes that they may deem fit.
Canada is not a "when in Rome" kind of country, and I believe that Canada would lose the very qualities that it make it a great country if it were ever to become such a place. We have established in law certain fundamental rights and freedoms, and although we don't protect our rights and freedoms with the same vigour as our neighbours to the south, we do make strident efforts to ensure that Canadians are people first and Canadians second.
We do, as a nation, have certain customs and traditions, but we are also open to new ideas and are not always so quick to dismiss the potential for, or the necessity of, change. If a foreigner were to choose Canada as their new home, I would not be so quick to expect that the new Canadian conform to my customs or traditions, nor would I be so quick to reject any of the immigrants customs or traditions that I happen to believe will benefit Canada as a whole.
I suppose I don't really see Canada as a "melting pot," but rather as an emerging pot. That is to say that Canada is really a country that is just growing up and hasn't fully decided who or what it is yet. Speaking as just one Canadian, I enjoy and encourage new Canadians to bring their customs and traditions to Canada, and to help mold one of the greatest countries on the face of the planet.
