#1May 19th, 2006
How much do Canadian soldiers get payed?
Do they get payed more if they are on a mission in a country?
Do they get payed more if they are on a mission in a country?
How much do Canadian soldiers get payed?
Conservative
#3
RE: How much do Canadian
May 19th, 2006
That's a pretty general question Jon. Every rank has it's own pay rate, and there are sub-rates within a rank. I'll detail a Private for you as it's the lowest in the ranks:
When you join the Army you're a Private(Recruit)) aka a Pte(R). After you receive your QL3s (trades training) you become a Private(Basic) aka Pte(B). After 30 months in the Army (2 1/2 years from enlistment date) you're deemed a Private(Trained) aka Pte(T). While these levels of achievement themselves don't carry a monetary value, your years as a Private do however. Each year you elevate in incentive pay category. For a maximum of 3 years as a Private (other ranks have different incentive levels, some upwards of 8 years). Most soldiers do 4 years as a Private, and are then promoted to Corporal (which is a rank you automatically receive after 4 years of service provided you're not in ****). So for the first 3 years of being a Private you receive pay incentives, the fouth year, you don't, this is because once you hit 3 years as a Private, you can be advanced promoted to Corporal (a full year early) so by not offering a pay incentive, it forces Privates to work hard for advancement. Anyway, the pay guide for a Private is:
Tier 1 (Your first year) $2421/mn ($29,052/yr)
Tier 2 (Your second year) $2960/mn ($35,520/yr)
Tier 3 (Your third year) $3556/mn ($42,672/yr)
After tier 3, you're in your 3rd year as a Private, and your pay does not move until you hit Corporal where it goes up to $4069/mn ($48,828/yr). As I said above, each rank has multiple catergories of incentives. The rank of Captain has 8 for example.
Also one must remember Specialist Pay. Certain trades are deemed specialist trades, and therefore entitled to SpecPay. SpecPay only kicks in when you're a Corporal or above, but it's a hefty difference. Lets look at 3 Trades, and the pay rates for a Corporal in each:
Infantry Corporal: (Tier 1) - $4069/mn ($48,828/yr)
LCIS Tech Corporal: (Tier 1 w/ SpecPay 1) - $4386/mn ($52,632/yr)
Search and Rescue Corporal: (Tier 1 w/ SpecPay 2) - $4645/mn ($55,740/yr)
Big difference when you factor in the two spec pay rates.
Overseas, yes soldiers get paid more, and that's all depending on where they are, where they're living, if they're married, and what the danger level is. A soldier who is single, in Haiti, living in a modular tent with air conditioning, where this is little danger, will make far less overseas pay than a married man, in Afghanistan, in a tent, where there is a high danger level. Also while overseas soldiers do not pay taxes for the duration of their tour.
When you join the Army you're a Private(Recruit)) aka a Pte(R). After you receive your QL3s (trades training) you become a Private(Basic) aka Pte(B). After 30 months in the Army (2 1/2 years from enlistment date) you're deemed a Private(Trained) aka Pte(T). While these levels of achievement themselves don't carry a monetary value, your years as a Private do however. Each year you elevate in incentive pay category. For a maximum of 3 years as a Private (other ranks have different incentive levels, some upwards of 8 years). Most soldiers do 4 years as a Private, and are then promoted to Corporal (which is a rank you automatically receive after 4 years of service provided you're not in ****). So for the first 3 years of being a Private you receive pay incentives, the fouth year, you don't, this is because once you hit 3 years as a Private, you can be advanced promoted to Corporal (a full year early) so by not offering a pay incentive, it forces Privates to work hard for advancement. Anyway, the pay guide for a Private is:
Tier 1 (Your first year) $2421/mn ($29,052/yr)
Tier 2 (Your second year) $2960/mn ($35,520/yr)
Tier 3 (Your third year) $3556/mn ($42,672/yr)
After tier 3, you're in your 3rd year as a Private, and your pay does not move until you hit Corporal where it goes up to $4069/mn ($48,828/yr). As I said above, each rank has multiple catergories of incentives. The rank of Captain has 8 for example.
Also one must remember Specialist Pay. Certain trades are deemed specialist trades, and therefore entitled to SpecPay. SpecPay only kicks in when you're a Corporal or above, but it's a hefty difference. Lets look at 3 Trades, and the pay rates for a Corporal in each:
Infantry Corporal: (Tier 1) - $4069/mn ($48,828/yr)
LCIS Tech Corporal: (Tier 1 w/ SpecPay 1) - $4386/mn ($52,632/yr)
Search and Rescue Corporal: (Tier 1 w/ SpecPay 2) - $4645/mn ($55,740/yr)
Big difference when you factor in the two spec pay rates.
Overseas, yes soldiers get paid more, and that's all depending on where they are, where they're living, if they're married, and what the danger level is. A soldier who is single, in Haiti, living in a modular tent with air conditioning, where this is little danger, will make far less overseas pay than a married man, in Afghanistan, in a tent, where there is a high danger level. Also while overseas soldiers do not pay taxes for the duration of their tour.
#4
RE: How much do Canadian
May 19th, 2006
Thanks for the info, Mogz.
Now this is where I stick my hand into the hornets nest.
No wonder the Canadian Forces would want to stay overseas. They get payed more.
Now this is where I stick my hand into the hornets nest.
No wonder the Canadian Forces would want to stay overseas. They get payed more.
Liberal
#5
RE: Staying Overseas
May 19th, 2006
JonB2004, I doubt that any member of the Canadian Forces would ever hope for their services to be required — the thought that a member would want a mission or an intervention abroad to be drawn out longer than it needs to be is, in my opinion, bordering on offensive.
#6
RE: How much do Canadian
May 19th, 2006
I'm not trying to offend anyone, so I hope no one takes this personally.
But I would think that if a soldier would get more money if he/she were overseas, I would think they would want to stay there.
But I would think that if a soldier would get more money if he/she were overseas, I would think they would want to stay there.
#7
Re: RE: Staying Overseas
May 19th, 2006Quote: Originally Posted by FiveParadox
Been out in the real world much Five? When I was in the army, there were a lot of soldiers who wanted to go on overseas missions, most peacekeeping of course. Some for the adventure, some for the money, most for a combination of both. JonB2004, I doubt that any member of the Canadian Forces would ever hope for their services to be required — the thought that a member would want a mission or an intervention abroad to be drawn out longer than it needs to be is, in my opinion, bordering on offensive.
That doesn't make them warmongers or anything. It makes them soldiers who want to get the opportunity to practice their trade in as close to a live situation as possible. And yes, most of them are more than happy to get the extra money .
#8
Re: How much do Canadian soldiers get payed?
May 19th, 2006
I want to go on overseas missions. From what I heard from a Cpl, 80,000 dollars and then danger pay for extremely dangerous missions. I wouldn't mind going on a NATO mission or U.N mission but I think I wouldnt mind going to Afghanistan and other missions not only to help people but because overseas pay is alot better.
#9
Re: How much do Canadian soldiers get payed?
May 19th, 2006
Also Mogz is it the same for the reserve? Do we get the same amount of pay and the same rank structure because I have heard that it takes two years for a Pte to become a CPL in the reserves??
Conservative
#10
RE: How much do Canadian
May 19th, 2006
1. While yes, getting payed extra bling while overseas is a bonus, there isn't anyone in the military that would want to continue a war for it jon. Especially a war costing Canadian lives. Seriously man.
2. You know where I stand on the Reserves Jersay. Your rank acceleration is a joke. You get a guy, who's got two years as a reserve (so no more than 60 training days) who's a Cpl, who can order around a Private with 3 years in with upwards of (700 training days, based on Brigade exercises, courses, and general duty training). The system, as i've said before, is broken. Your pay rate is different, you're paid daily, not a salary, unless you get picked up under a Class A contract, which puts your almost on par with a Reg Force soldier, with you working 11 months out of the year on Salary. Those a rare, but apply to troops heading overseas, they're under a Class A contract.
2. You know where I stand on the Reserves Jersay. Your rank acceleration is a joke. You get a guy, who's got two years as a reserve (so no more than 60 training days) who's a Cpl, who can order around a Private with 3 years in with upwards of (700 training days, based on Brigade exercises, courses, and general duty training). The system, as i've said before, is broken. Your pay rate is different, you're paid daily, not a salary, unless you get picked up under a Class A contract, which puts your almost on par with a Reg Force soldier, with you working 11 months out of the year on Salary. Those a rare, but apply to troops heading overseas, they're under a Class A contract.
Conservative
#12
Re: How much do Canadian soldiers get payed?
May 19th, 2006
True Story.
Many years ago.
There used to be a pistol range in the basement of the Lily Lake Pavilion here in town. Among the members was a World War II infantry vet by the name of John Day (long dead, which is why I can tell this story)
John was a colourful guy, somewhat......opinionated.
One Tuesday evening at our regular shoot, a gentleman came down to the range and asked us to cease shooting as the noise was disturbing the meeting upstairs. He was asked what kind of meeting?
A Liberal Party meeting was the reply.
"GEEZUS" John roared "LIBERALS! I used to kill people for a buck twenty-five a day. I'd kill them f!@#%rs for FREE!"
Needless to say the gentleman beat a hasty retreat.
Many years ago.
There used to be a pistol range in the basement of the Lily Lake Pavilion here in town. Among the members was a World War II infantry vet by the name of John Day (long dead, which is why I can tell this story)
John was a colourful guy, somewhat......opinionated.
One Tuesday evening at our regular shoot, a gentleman came down to the range and asked us to cease shooting as the noise was disturbing the meeting upstairs. He was asked what kind of meeting?
A Liberal Party meeting was the reply.
"GEEZUS" John roared "LIBERALS! I used to kill people for a buck twenty-five a day. I'd kill them f!@#%rs for FREE!"
Needless to say the gentleman beat a hasty retreat.
Conservative
#13
RE: How much do Canadian
May 19th, 2006
Hahaha I love old soldiers. They're the best.
#16
Re: RE: How much do Canadian
May 20th, 2006Quote: Originally Posted by Mogz
I have been away for awhile, but I'd find it hard to believe they've changed the terminology that much.Your pay rate is different, you're paid daily, not a salary, unless you get picked up under a Class A contract, which puts your almost on par with a Reg Force soldier, with you working 11 months out of the year on Salary. Those a rare, but apply to troops heading overseas, they're under a Class A contract.
Class A - part time training - paid on the day/evening you show up
Class B - full-time training/employment - a course or callout, paid full-time
Class C - very rare, ususally in support of reg force, paid as per reg force
I've spent four years in the reg force (Strathcona's) and 12 in the reserves (Comm Sqns and Dist HQ) so I've seen both sides. The worst situation seemed to be with the combat arms as far as differences in training and and relations between the regs and reserves.
The Communication Reserves had a very good relationship with their reg counterparts as there was always more money per soldier to train and put people on callouts to get experience.
#17
RE: How much do Canadian soldiers get payed?
May 20th, 2006
Damn, thats not bad money! I'm gonna sign up right now.
Conservative
#18
RE: How much do Canadian
May 20th, 2006Quote:
Oops guess I mixed the classes up. Statement about Class A withdrawn, switch to Class C. Thanks thecdn.I have been away for awhile, but I'd find it hard to believe they've changed the terminology that much.
Class A - part time training - paid on the day/evening you show up
Class B - full-time training/employment - a course or callout, paid full-time
Class C - very rare, ususally in support of reg force, paid as per reg force
Quote:
With regard to Communications Reserves having a good relationship with the Reg Force. That's obviously changed then. Being a Signaller myself, i'm appaled by the lack of training the reserves are receiving, especially the drips from Debney Armouries in Edmonton. They pack up their "troops", send them to Kingston for a few weeks and deem them as capable as a Reg Force Signaller who spends 6 months in Kingston. Then you get them out to the field and tell them to set up a vixam mast and they look at you like you've got eight heads. Comm Reserves aren't very well respect by the Reg Force equivilent, granted that's not to say there aren't some excellent reservists, there are.The Communication Reserves had a very good relationship with their reg counterparts as there was always more money per soldier to train and put people on callouts to get experience.
#19
Re: RE: How much do Canadian
May 20th, 2006Quote: Originally Posted by JonB2004
Actually, a few do. Most don't. Its not a bed in breakfest over there. You sleep in a tent, on a crappy bed, bad food most of the time. Fully closed in horribly warm conditions. Its not fun to be over there.I'm not trying to offend anyone, so I hope no one takes this personally.
But I would think that if a soldier would get more money if he/she were overseas, I would think they would want to stay there.
#20
Re: RE: Staying Overseas
May 20th, 2006Quote: Originally Posted by JonB2004
Thanks for the info, Mogz.
Now this is where I stick my hand into the hornets nest.
No wonder the Canadian Forces would want to stay overseas. They get payed more.
Quote: Originally Posted by FiveParadox
JonB2004, I doubt that any member of the Canadian Forces would ever hope for their services to be required — the thought that a member would want a mission or an intervention abroad to be drawn out longer than it needs to be is, in my opinion, bordering on offensive.
I like the way you think Five, but it's true. I know someone personally who is going on tour for the extra money. That, and to see new stuff. There are also tax write-offs depending on the type of tour. The soldier I’m speaking of is much like other soldiers.
It's not about wanting war so much as to benefit from circumstances that are out there, and they don't attach any real evil thinking to it. Kind of like how some would invest in industries that might be offensive in some way (eg. tobacco) but are thinking simply in terms of business opportunities and business is a real cold art sometimes. That said, we are talking about soldiers who aren’t typically trained to go out in the world to shake peoples hands.
I'm in no way defending the way society removes itself from the consequence of it’s choices (in fact that is why I find myself here arguing with everyone) but I'll point out that we sometimes only think of things at an opportunistic level until the problems we ignore affect us personally. That is why we let governments/corporations trash the environment. We are ‘addicted consumers’ even at the expense of our planet, and even though we still let the governments/corporations trash this world, we are all good people generally in spite of that.
On another note, there IS the ‘hard core soldier’ who wants to put all that training to task and have the opportunity to pull the trigger on a so called enemy. And today’s technology has been the worst at making war easy.
Anyway Five, we need people like yourself to change the world so don’t make what I say really change anything for you.
...
I edited my post to include JonB2004 statement as that is where the impact of my comments were in reference to.
#21
Re: RE: How much do Canadian
May 20th, 2006Quote: Originally Posted by Mogz
Very sorry to hear that. I know before I left (in Sep 9With regard to Communications Reserves having a good relationship with the Reg Force. That's obviously changed then. Being a Signaller myself, i'm appaled by the lack of training the reserves are receiving, especially the drips from Debney Armouries in Edmonton. They pack up their "troops", send them to Kingston for a few weeks and deem them as capable as a Reg Force Signaller who spends 6 months in Kingston. Then you get them out to the field and tell them to set up a vixam mast and they look at you like you've got eight heads. Comm Reserves aren't very well respect by the Reg Force equivilent, granted that's not to say there aren't some excellent reservists, there are.
they were changing the officer courses in Kingston to make the reserve courses less compatible with the reg courses then they had been in the past. Don't know what they had in mind for the or's courses.Do you know if the comm res is still a separate entity or if it was swallowed up by the militia? Is it a case of the res units not having enough of the tccs equipment to train on properly?
I know you don't have the answers, I'm just thinking out loud now. This pisses me off a lot. I was the CO of 746 in Calgary before I moved to the US and I'd hate to think the comm res has fallen that much in it's training and standards. Time to email a couple of old friends and see what's going on.
Conservative
#22
RE: How much do Canadian
May 21st, 2006
You know, I don't honestly know if the any of the Comm Squadrons are directly controlled by the Reserves or if they're still under the sway of the Communications Branch. I'll confess that some of the workings of the Canadian Army Reserve baffles me. I recently flipped through the Army Directory for 2006 for Edmonton, and I noticed that 745 Comm Squadron (Reserve) isn't listed under 41 Brigade. I do know they're based out of the Debney Armouries on the South Side of Edmonton, but the directory doesn't affiliated them with the Brigade. Strange.
With regard to TCCCS equipment, every time i've been to the field with Reserves they've always had enough equipment. They may not have enough in terms of "full allocation", but I do know that they aren't using any legacy equipment has the Army (both reserve and regular) are fully under the TCCCS system now. I do know that they lack certain items; i.e. The PDTs and FDTs, however those aren't exactly a large part of effective combat communications, they're more like a nicety.
I think the drop in effectiveness of the reserves is due in part to the Canadian Army no longer setting an effective standard. The military will take anyone, and accept any level of motivation and/or competence. It's a stigma dogging the military right now, and it's only getting worse. Couple that with the fact that the school in Kingston is teaching Reserve Signallers but a fraction of what they need to know, and you have the current state of the Branch. Abysmal in my opinion.
With regard to TCCCS equipment, every time i've been to the field with Reserves they've always had enough equipment. They may not have enough in terms of "full allocation", but I do know that they aren't using any legacy equipment has the Army (both reserve and regular) are fully under the TCCCS system now. I do know that they lack certain items; i.e. The PDTs and FDTs, however those aren't exactly a large part of effective combat communications, they're more like a nicety.
I think the drop in effectiveness of the reserves is due in part to the Canadian Army no longer setting an effective standard. The military will take anyone, and accept any level of motivation and/or competence. It's a stigma dogging the military right now, and it's only getting worse. Couple that with the fact that the school in Kingston is teaching Reserve Signallers but a fraction of what they need to know, and you have the current state of the Branch. Abysmal in my opinion.
#23
Re: RE: How much do Canadian
May 21st, 2006Quote: Originally Posted by Mogz
In that case it sounds like they still aren't part of the Militia. They are under the command of 74 Comm Gp out of Vancouver and are part of whatever DISO/Communication Command is called now.I recently flipped through the Army Directory for 2006 for Edmonton, and I noticed that 745 Comm Squadron (Reserve) isn't listed under 41 Brigade. I do know they're based out of the Debney Armouries on the South Side of Edmonton, but the directory doesn't affiliated them with the Brigade. Strange.
This may sound strange from a reg force point of view where 1 CMBG is within the Bde/Army but it works out better for the Comm Reserve. They are within a reg force chain of comd instead of the more politcally motivated/amatuerish Militia chain of comd. And most importantly, they are funded separately so (at least in the past) the Comm Reserve always is able to train more and fund more callouts because they have more money per soldier.
I am sorry to hear they've changed the training at Kingston for reservists and lowered the standards. Not good for an army that is so small and will always need reserve augmentation for all the tasks they have.
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