Liberals in serious trouble

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
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The Evil Empire
Canada's once mighty Liberals in serious trouble

OTTAWA (Reuters) - Canada's once mighty Liberal Party is in serious trouble in the final run-up to the January 23 election, beset by a stumbling campaign, internal divisions and a series of embarrassing gaffes.

The party, in power since 1993, has dominated Canadian politics for a century. It is famed for its professionalism and long ago earned the nickname "The Big Red Machine".

But the Liberals never really recovered from a kickback scandal in 2004, which badly undermined Prime Minister Paul Martin in the eyes of voters already seeking change.

Senior Liberals privately admit the party stands virtually no chance of beating the Conservatives of Stephen Harper, who have moved past the Liberals to take a comfortable lead in recent opinion polls.

"We're done," confided a prominent Liberal legislator. "It's all over," said one well-placed official. Some fret they could be out of power for up to a decade.

"The talk inside senior Liberal circles is already focussing on the succession and rebuilding the party. Defeat on January 23 is pretty much taken for granted," said one person with access to the top ranks of the party.

But Scott Reid, the chief spokesman for Martin, dismissed any talk of defeat.

"The mood is good -- very good. We've got time and we've got advantages. We'll make ample use of them both," he said.

Martin, who took over from Liberal predecessor Jean Chretien in December 2003, has long been criticised for his indecisiveness and heavy reliance on a small group of relatively inexperienced advisers.

He let the Conservatives set the election campaign agenda early on but ran into trouble when he began to present his own policies, some of which differed little from ones he used in the June 2004 campaign. Others were clearly thought up at the last moment.

"The campaign is in a bizarre state ... There's no policy they won't change overnight if a focus group says it's not popular," said one senior Liberal. "This has been a lousy government and frankly they deserve to lose."

Signs of disarray are easy to find. Unhappy officials talk openly to the press. Local party workers complain about a lack of volunteers. One frustrated party analyst swore on live television during a discussion.

The Liberal policy document was leaked before its official launch and when the party unveiled a series of attack ads against Harper, it was forced to scrap one spot which suggested the Conservatives would impose martial law if elected.

Martin was peppered with so many questions from reporters about that ad on Thursday that it largely obscured the policy announcement he was trying to put across.

The media have been more critical in this campaign and many commentators mocked Martin's surprise announcement this week that he would focus on scrapping an obscure clause in the constitution.

"It's time for Paul Martin to fire his chief strategist. The trouble is, I suspect his chief strategist is him," wrote columnist Margaret Wente in the Globe and Mail newspaper, saying he was "seriously out of touch" with Canadians.

To add to Martin's woes there are deep splits between his team and supporters of Chretien, who feel the former prime minister was forced out of power by arch-rival Martin.

As a result, few of the experienced backroom operators who engineered three successive victories for Chretien are helping Martin.

Some Martin backers are muttering about dirty tricks but few in the party take this suggestion seriously.

"Why would Chretien sabotage the campaign? The Martin people are doing a perfectly good job of sabotaging it themselves," said one Liberal.

In a bid to clear the Liberals' name, Martin called an official inquiry into the kickback scandal in 2004, but all this did was fill the news with endless lurid tales of how party members had illegally funnelled money to allies.

This, critics say, badly tarnished the Liberal brand and made it very hard to recover from the revelation a few weeks ago that police were probing a possible leak of sensitive tax policy information from the finance minister's office.

"That is the danger that was always there and that was probably the single biggest catalyst that brought everything back," said one veteran party member.

http://tinyurl.com/aoex3
 

the caracal kid

the clan of the claw
Nov 28, 2005
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The strangest thing about the idea of the admission of defeat prior to the election is that given the lack of vision from Martin, and the lack of a campaign (given the lack of a vision), defeat seems to have been admitted to before the election was called.

(This is where the conspiracy theorists jump in and suggest somebody has something over Martin and that his is throwing the election to save his own hide)
 

Triple_R

Electoral Member
Jan 8, 2006
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I do think that there's something going on behind the scenes here. In fairness, the Conservatives have run an almost flawless campaign, and that certainly has a lot to do with the current poll numbers.

Nonetheless, it looks to me like that almost everything that could go wrong for the Liberals has gone wrong the past two weeks. Well, everything short of Jack Layton widdling away votes from the Liberals to the NDP... but that may yet happen.

I just saw on the news high-ranking Liberal MP John MacCallum all but concede the election to Stephen Harper, saying that it's likely that Harper will be the next Prime Minister.

I'm beginning to wonder just how far the Liberals might fall. Jack Layton really needs to go after them with a vengeance, in my view. He should point towards the election defeatism within the Liberal ranks, and say "Folks, forget the strategic voting this time. It's not going to work. Even the Liberals don't think that they're going to win this time. Do you want a party in complete and utter disarray to be opposing the Conservatives after the election, or do you want our strong growing NDP party?"

In any event, I really think that there's something going on behind the scenes. At the very least, there is a powerful anti-Martin movement within the Liberal camp that is deliberately sabotagouing his campaign. It's hard to imagine a campaign as flat-out pathetic as this Liberal campaign being purely due to stupidity.
 

Hank C

Electoral Member
Jan 4, 2006
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"We're done," confided a prominent Liberal legislator. "It's all over," said one well-placed official. Some fret they could be out of power for up to a decade.

..will be quite an interesting time if the Torys get elected on the 23rd. If they bring in the proper measures and are viewed as doing a good job, I think we may see the Liberals out of power for a long, long time.......does anyone have any idea of who the next Liberal leader might be?

"The campaign is in a bizarre state ... There's no policy they won't change overnight if a focus group says it's not popular," said one senior Liberal. "This has been a lousy government and frankly they deserve to lose."

yep and we can see this from Liberal judgement on the HandgunBan, the NotwithstandingClause ect...this will say just about anything to get elected.
 

Triple_R

Electoral Member
Jan 8, 2006
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Hank C - There's one general rule in politics - all else being equal, voters tend to favour the incumbant.

If the Conservatives get in, and if the economy is roughly as good under them as it was under Martin (or better), and if they don't have the scandals that the Liberals had, they could be in for quite some time.

Also, if the Conservatives form a strong minority, or a majority, government, it could be interesting to see what occurs between the Liberals and the NDP. On many issues, I think that Canadians are closer to the NDP than they are to the Liberals, and with out the cause of 'stopping the Conservatives' to lead them to the NDP, the Liberals could be in trouble.
 

Calberty

Electoral Member
Dec 7, 2005
277
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The anti-military ad that was an insult to our soldiers shows Martin for what he is...an opportunistic pig. As a former member of the military, I now hate him and hope he gets hit by a truck and dies.
 

nanaimoman

New Member
Jan 12, 2006
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Re: RE: Liberals in serious trouble

Calberty said:
The anti-military ad that was an insult to our soldiers shows Martin for what he is...an opportunistic pig. As a former member of the military, I now hate him and hope he gets hit by a truck and dies.
Our Canadian soldiers are in the Army to protect the citizens of Canada, for Martin to imply that armed Canadian soldiers would bring harm to their own citizens that they defend the Country for makes me sick. What a desperate man, and party :evil:
 

the caracal kid

the clan of the claw
Nov 28, 2005
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I fail to see how the ad in question is an insult to the military. They act under orders. If ordered into cities by Harper, they would go. The ad questions Harper. The military are just pawns (from all perspectives).
 

Jersay

House Member
Dec 1, 2005
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Callberty :
The anti-military ad that was an insult to our soldiers shows Martin for what he is...an opportunistic pig. As a former member of the military, I now hate him and hope he gets hit by a truck and dies.

nanaimoman:
Our Canadian soldiers are in the Army to protect the citizens of Canada, for Martin to imply that armed Canadian soldiers would bring harm to their own citizens that they defend the Country for makes me sick. What a desperate man, and party

caracelkid:
I fail to see how the ad in question is an insult to the military. They act under orders. If ordered into cities by Harper, they would go. The ad questions Harper. The military are just pawns (from all perspectives).

Caracel Kid. This shows disrespect to the military as you point out yourself that they would be pawns for some kind of political party. The military is suppose to protect Canadian citizens, and it brings fear into the fact making people believe that the military's impartiality could be broken for a political policy that already takes place in countries because we already have soldiers in Canadian cities.
 

the caracal kid

the clan of the claw
Nov 28, 2005
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but the thing is that all groups are pawns being played off one another for political gain. Is the military ad fundamentally different than ads questioning the rights of homosexuals, or the rights of aboriginals, or women, or children, etc (not that we have seen all these questions this election)
 

nanaimoman

New Member
Jan 12, 2006
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Re: RE: Liberals in serious trouble

the caracal kid said:
but the thing is that all groups are pawns being played off one another for political gain. Is the military ad fundamentally different than ads questioning the rights of homosexuals, or the rights of aboriginals, or women, or children, etc (not that we have seen all these questions this election)
The Military add is very black and white. It paints a picture of our Canadian soldiers walking the city streets with their guns in hand.
 

the caracal kid

the clan of the claw
Nov 28, 2005
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yes, but that does not mean canadians should fear the military. They should fear whomever would order those soldiers to act against the citizens.
 

FiveParadox

Governor General
Dec 20, 2005
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The Canadian Armed Forces to not issue their own orders; rather, those orders come from the Minister of Defense and the Prime Minister. This advertisement was aimed at the top, at a potential Conservative Government, and I honestly do not believe that any disrespect or malcontent was directed toward the Armed Forces.
 

nanaimoman

New Member
Jan 12, 2006
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Re: RE: Liberals in serious trouble

the caracal kid said:
yes, but that does not mean canadians should fear the military. They should fear whomever would order those soldiers to act against the citizens.
This is my point. The Liberals are trying to convince the public that Harper would have soldiers marching down city streets with their guns. I'd like to think that Martin is not naive enough to think that people really believe that the Conservatives are going to turn Canadian cities into cities of Martial law.
 

Jersay

House Member
Dec 1, 2005
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This is my point. The Liberals are trying to convince the public that Harper would have soldiers marching down city streets with their guns. I'd like to think that Martin is not naive enough to think that people really believe that the Conservatives are going to turn Canadian cities into cities of Martial law.

Exactly right. And the best effect to do that was to have the ad run an extra day in Quebec to get that point across to the people where the military has been used twice. Where there is a fear of the military.

They are trying to use the military and the ones in uniform as a tool of fear against the Canadian people.
 

Calberty

Electoral Member
Dec 7, 2005
277
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Paul martin hates our military servicemen. I hate Paul Martin. I hope he gets hit by a truck and dies. He is a pig.
 

Hank C

Electoral Member
Jan 4, 2006
953
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Calgary, AB
Re: RE: Liberals in serious trouble

Calberty said:
Paul martin hates our military servicemen. I hate Paul Martin. I hope he gets hit by a truck and dies. He is a pig.

I dunno If I wish him or any other Liberal death....but I would certainly spit on his face if I had the chance. I certainly want to see some of the swine of the Liberal Party have their political careers finished.
 

Calberty

Electoral Member
Dec 7, 2005
277
0
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Re: RE: Liberals in serious trouble

Calberty said:
Paul martin hates our military servicemen. I hate Paul Martin. I hope he gets hit by a truck and dies. He is a pig.

No apology. Martin should be the one apologizing to the 100,000 Canadians who died in wars. I now despise Martin. He is a coward who slanders the military to promote his own bacon.