Stop the seal hunt

Gonzo

Electoral Member
Dec 5, 2004
997
1
18
Was Victoria, now Ottawa
The seal hunt is an embarrassment for Canada and all Canadians. It should be stopped. They are skinned alive and dragged across the ice while still conscience. The argument that hunting seals protects the fishery doesn't hold up. Seals and fish have coexisted for a long time. It wasn’t until over fishing did the stock deplete. So who’s to blame? Humans. Is there any reason to hunt seals? No.
http://www.ifaw.org/ifaw/general/default.aspx?oid=82078
 
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Walrus

Nominee Member
Mar 20, 2005
67
0
6
Victoria
Gonzo said:
What baffles me is why they're skinned alive? The seal hunt is an embarrassment for Canada and all Canadians. It should be stopped. If they are hunting to protect fish, seals and fish have coexisted for a long time. It wasn’t until over fishing did the stock deplete. So who’s to blame? Humans. So is there any reason to hunt seals? No. http://www.ifaw.org/ifaw/general/default.aspx?oid=82078

http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/seal-phoque/myth_e.htm



ATLANTIC CANADA SEAL HUNT
MYTHS AND REALITIES

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Myth #1: The Canadian government allows sealers to kill adorable little white seals.
Reality: The image of the whitecoat harp seal is used prominently by seal hunt opponents. This image gives the false impression that vulnerable seal pups are targeted by sealers during the commercial hunt.

The hunting of harp seal pups (whitecoats) and hooded seal pups (bluebacks) is illegal - and has been since 1987. Marine Mammal Regulations prohibit the trade, sale or barter of the fur of these pups. Furthermore, seals cannot be harvested when they are in breeding or birthing grounds.


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Myth #2: Seals are being skinned alive.
Reality: The most recent Canadian Veterinary Medical Association (CVMA) Report and numerous reports mentioned by the Malouf Commission (1987) indicate that this is not true.

Sometimes a seal may appear to be moving after it has been killed; however seals have a swimming reflex that is active - even after death. This reflex falsely appears as though the animal is still alive when it is clearly dead - similar to the reflex in chickens.


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Myth #3: Seals are not independent animals when they are killed - they still rely on their mothers and can't even swim or fend for themselves.
Reality: Only weaned, self-reliant seals are hunted after they have been left by their mothers to fend for themselves.

The vast majority of harp seals are taken after more than 25 days of age, after their white coat has moulted. Harp seals have the ability to swim at this stage of development. They are also opportunistic feeders and prey on whatever food source in readily available to them.


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Myth #4: Countless seals that slip off the ice after being clubbed or shot are lost and never accounted for.
Reality: "Struck and lost" data from at-sea observers as well as the CVMA indicate that this is not true. In fact, the record of struck and loss for the Canadian commercial seal hunt stands at less than five per cent.

For one thing, most of the harp seals taken in Canada are hunted on the ice rather than in the water and this makes losses much lower than in places like Greenland. Second, harp seals that are hunted have very high levels of body fat, making them quite buoyant. That, coupled with the buoyant qualities of salt water, make it quite easy for sealers to retrieve a seal should they slip into the water after being shot.


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Myth #5: The Canadian government is allowing sealers to kill nearly one million seals to help with the recovery of cod stocks.
Reality: Several factors have contributed to the lack of recovery of Atlantic cod stocks, such as fishing effort, poor growth and physical condition of the fish, and environmental changes. Seals eat cod, but seals also eat other fish that prey on cod, therefore it is difficult to hold any one factor responsible for the decline in cod stocks.

In addition, there are many uncertainties in the estimates of the amount of fish consumed by seals. The commercial quota is established on sound conservation principles, not an attempt to assist in the recovery of groundfish stocks.


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Myth #6: The club - or hakapik - is a barbaric tool that has no place in today's world.
Reality: Clubs have been used by sealers since the onset of the hunt hundreds of years ago. Hakapiks originated with Norwegian sealers who found it very effective. Over the years, studies conducted by the various veterinary experts, and American studies carried out between 1969 and 1972 on the Pribilof Islands hunt (Alaska) have consistently proven that the club or hakapik is an efficient tool designed to kill the animal quickly and humanely. A recent report in September, 2002, by the Canadian Veterinary Medical Association, had results that parallel these findings.


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Myth #7: The methods used to kill seals are far less humane than those used to hunt or slaughter any other domestic or wild animal.
Reality: Hunting methods were studied by the Royal Commission on Sealing in Canada and they found that the clubbing of seals, when properly performed, is at least as humane as, and often more humane than, the killing methods used in commercial slaughterhouses, which are accepted by the majority of the public.


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Myth #8: The hunt is unsustainable.
Reality: Since the 1960's, environmental groups have been saying the seal hunt is unsustainable. In fact, the harp seal population is healthy and abundant. In excess of five million animals, the Northwest Atlantic seal herd is nearly triple what it was in the 1970s. DFO sets quotas at levels that ensure the health and abundance of seal herds. In no way are seals - and harp seals in particular - an "endangered species".


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Myth #9: The "hunt" is simply a front for what is actually a cull aimed at reducing the population of harp seals.
Reality: The seal hunt is not a cull. It is a sustainable, commercially viable fishery based on sound conservation principles. In fact, the Department has adopted an Objective-Based Fisheries Management approach using control rules and reference points to establish management measures for the harp seal hunt. This process will facilitate a market-driven harvest that will enable sealers to maximize their benefits without compromising conservation. If the current three-year Total Allowable Catch (TAC) is fully taken, the population will still remain well above 70 per cent of its highest known abundance, found in the latest survey in 1999.

DFO takes a number of factors into consideration when establishing TAC levels for harp seals, including - ice conditions, pup mortality, natural mortality, incidental harvest or by-catch, the Greenland and Arctic hunts and commercial harvest levels.


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Myth #10: The seal hunt provides such low economic return for sealers that it is not an economically viable industry.
Reality: The landed value of seals was $16 million in 2004. Pelt prices as high as $70 have recently been recorded. Seals are a significant source of income for some individual sealers. The money is earned over a very short period. Sealing also creates employment opportunities for buying and processing plants.

While sealing income may seem negligible by some US or European standards, sealers themselves have stated that their income from sealing can represent from 25-35 per cent of their total annual income. Sealing also represents benefits to thousands of families in Eastern Canada at a time of year when other fishing options are unavailable or limited at best, in many remote, coastal communities.


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Myth #11: The Canadian government provides subsidies for the seal hunt.
Reality: The Government of Canada does not subsidize the seal hunt. Sealing is an economically viable industry. All subsidies ceased in 2001. Even before that time, any subsidies provided were for market and product development, including a meat subsidy, to encourage full use of the seal. In fact, government has provided fewer subsidies to the sealing industry than recommended by the Royal Commission on Sealing.


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Myth #12: The seal hunt is not worth it - seals are only taken for their fur and the rest of the animal is wasted.
Reality: Seals have been harvested for food, fuel and shelter and other products for hundreds of years. The subsistence hunt is a valuable link to Canadian cultural heritage. Canada exports seal products in three forms: pelts, oil and meat. Traditionally, the pelts have been the main commodity, but production of seal oil for human consumption has grown substantially in recent years. Seal oil markets remain positive, and a large percentage of seal oil is finding its way into areas other than traditional marine and industrial oils.

DFO encourages the fullest use of seals, with the emphasis on leather, oil, handicrafts, and in recent years, meat for human and animal consumption as well as seal oil capsules rich in Omega-3. Any seal parts that are left on the ice provide sustenance to a wide variety of marine scavengers such as crustaceans, seabirds and fish.


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Myth #13: The seal hunt is loosely monitored and DFO doesn't punish illegal hunting activity or practices.
Reality: The seal hunt is closely monitored and tightly regulated. Canada's enforcement of sealing regulations is thorough and comprehensive. Regulations and licensing policies stipulate hunting seasons, quotas, vessel size and methods of dispatch. Fishery Officers monitor the seal hunt in numerous ways to ensure sealers comply with Canada's Marine Mammal Regulations. They conduct surveillance of the hunt by means of aerial patrols, surface (vessel) patrols, dockside inspections of vessels at landing sites and inspections at buying and processing facilities. In 2004, Fishery Officers spent approximately 8600 hours monitoring and enforcing the hunt. In the last five years, 94 charges were laid and convictions were upheld in 57 of those cases.

Sealers are well trained in humane hunting methods and are, as a group, responsible and law abiding. Assumptions that large numbers of sealers are violating the laws and regulations governing the hunt are unfounded.


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Myth #14: If sealers take more than their allotted quota, DFO simply further raises the quota for them.
Reality: The Government of Canada has strict conservation measures in place, and is committed to the careful management of all seals to ensure strong, healthy populations in the years to come. 2005 is the last year of a three-year harp seal hunt management plan. The harp seal TAC was set at 975,000 for 2003-2005 and it has not been raised. This multi-year management plan was developed in consultation with more than 100 stakeholders, including conservation groups, at the 2002 Seal Forum in St. John's, Newfoundland and Labrador.

There have been two instances when TACs were allowed to be exceeded to allow sealers disadvantaged by environmental conditions to have an opportunity to seal after good hunting in other areas had allowed the full TAC to be taken early.

These decisions were made only because the increased hunting would not jeopardize conservation and sustainability.


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Myth #15: Anyone can get a licence - even those who have never hunted before, and there are no training requirements.
Reality: Before sealers can qualify for a professional licence they must obtain an assistant licence and work under the supervision of a professional sealer for two years. Individuals applying for a personal use licence must demonstrate they apply good sealing practices to ensure the seal is killed in a quick and humane fashion. Personal sealing licences will only be issued to individuals who had a licence, a valid hunter's capability certificate, or big game licence the previous year and who have attended a mandatory training session.


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Myth #16: The majority of Canadians are opposed to the seal hunt.
Reality: Animal rights groups currently campaigning against the seal hunt cite a 2004 Ipsos-Reid poll stating that 71 per cent of Canadians are opposed to the hunt. In fact, Canadians support federal policies regarding the seal hunt. An Ipsos-Reid survey conducted in February 2005 concluded that 60 per cent of Canadians are in favour of a responsible hunt. The survey methodology and results of this poll are available on request.
 

Gonzo

Electoral Member
Dec 5, 2004
997
1
18
Was Victoria, now Ottawa
I cant say. Family issues maybe.
The government realy started the seal hunt again as a make work project for Newfoundlanders. They're upset about fishing restrictions so to appease them they let them slaughter seals to sell their pelts to countries like China.
 

missile

House Member
Dec 1, 2004
4,846
17
38
Saint John N.B.
Re: RE: Stop the seal hunt

Reverend Blair said:
A little off topic (or completely, actually), but why is a guy named Walrus defending the killing of his genetic cousins? ;-)
The easy answer is: More fish for him. :lol:
 

Walrus

Nominee Member
Mar 20, 2005
67
0
6
Victoria
Gonzo said:
Your link is a government link, so of course they're going to defend themselves.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1110899554837_106308754?hub=CTVNewsAt11

http://www.ifaw.org/ifaw/general/default.aspx?oid=85070

The second link is of sealers talking about the hunt.

If you post a link walrus, you dont have to copy it and paste the whole article as well.

And your links are both from anti-hunt groups so of course they are going to be arguing against it and the supposed sealers quoted will be shown in the worst light.

Just a friendly point - you have to enclose your links with the URL :wink: BTW I am fully conversant with the requirements of posting articles and links - I just include the whole thing for those who are too lazy to use the link (not yourself obviously):wink:

You might assume that I am pro-hunt, but you would be wrong - I am also not anti-hunt. I just can't stand idly by and watch the anti-hunt groups (however well-meaning they may be) misrepresent the facts of the hunt in order to fleece other well-meaning people like yourself out of money to support a position which doesn't merit the amount of attention that it gets. There are far more important issues than whether a group of fishermen keep the population of seals in check and stay off the welfare rolls as a result.

missile said:
The easy answer is: More fish for him.

You got that right :thumbright:
 

Gonzo

Electoral Member
Dec 5, 2004
997
1
18
Was Victoria, now Ottawa
Thanks for the info on posting links. I never figured out how to do it (that and posting pictures, and quoting other posts). There are always areas of grey wherever you get information, whether from government sites or anti hunting sites. I read them both. I read your link but I dont know how much I trust those facts. I've read the opposite elsewhere, and first hand accounts from seal hunters. I think it's just a disgusting thing that should be stopped.
 

Walrus

Nominee Member
Mar 20, 2005
67
0
6
Victoria
Gonzo said:
Thanks for the info on posting links. I never figured out how to do it (that and posting pictures, and quoting other posts). There are always areas of grey wherever you get information, whether from government sites or anti hunting sites. I read them both. I read your link but I dont know how much I trust those facts. I've read the opposite elsewhere, and first hand accounts from seal hunters. I think it's just a disgusting thing that should be stopped.

Unfortunately the issue has become so emotionally charged that you won't find any source that can be considered unbiased. In this case I tend to have more faith in DFO's research because my experience of groups like Greenpeace and the Sea Shepherd Society is that they frequently overdramatize things often distorting the facts in order to get media attention. In this issue I have a bias but that doesn't mean that I won't try to get some valid research about the whole issue and try to maintain a detached opinion.
 

peapod

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2004
10,745
0
36
pumpkin pie bungalow
Greenpeace does not have to overdramatise, unfortuneately reality does just fine. The government as usual has no plan and their science is full of holes.

Myths regarding the seal hunt

Canadian scientists only count the population every five years -- so any declines in population based on new birth counts could take
up to 15 years or longer to be detected and verified.
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The methods used by Canada to monitor the hunt quotas fail to count seals that are wounded but escape to die later, seals killed by illegal hunting and those that are killed for their organs and then discarded.
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Future population estimates don't consider other changes, like climate change, that could adversely affect the seal population. Changes in sea-ice can have a profound impact on the feeding and breeding habits of seals.
Other smaller hunts and threats to seals are also ignored when estimating future seal populations.
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Mhairi Dunlop from Greenpeace International explains why the hunt should not continue: "It is irresponsible and scientifically unjustifiable of the Canadian government to allow the killing of nearly a million seals when their own scientists are unable to accurately substantiate the size of the herd, the actual number of seals taken in the hunt or the impact of external pressures like climate change on the health of the population". The Canadian government has a long history of mismanaging marine ecosystems, yielding to the short-term interests of the fishing and sealing industries at great cost to jobs and marine life."
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Don't worry, we know what we are doing

Canadian government claims that the seal herd is "healthy and abundant" and "at a level where there are no conservation concerns," are inaccurate at best and ironically reminiscent of past claims concerning the Atlantic Cod. The world's most abundant fishery, on the Canadian Grand Banks, was fished to oblivion with the help of government subsidies. Rather than learn from this mistake the government seems to be repeating the same sorry tale with seals in the place of cod.
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Government scientists have produced data that is overly optimistic, inaccurate and out of date. There is simply no justification for this hunt. If Canada really takes the precautionary principle seriously then it should err on the side of conservation before the seals become another casualty of Canada's gross mismanagement of fragile ecosystems and species

Blah! the DFO you must be kidding!!! you live in british columbia! they should be run out of this province on a rail!!!!! even the courts throw out their charges here. Give that judge a medal in campbell river for tossing out their charges againist those fishermen. They are useless!

Check out www.greenpeace.org they have a detailed story on the seal hunt...and ehm...they have facts.
 

Jo Canadian

Council Member
Mar 15, 2005
2,488
1
38
PEI...for now
The motive for the seal hunt it for the pelts. YOU will not get a very valuable pelt if you skin the animal alive! It would be ruined and full of holes from the creatures throes that would be a waste. I am more inclined to think that these people wouldn't want to do that to their only source of income, although I'm sure there are some assholes allowed on the hunt that are uncessarily cruel, they're the ones we should be putting the boot to.

My seal hunting experience wasn't with the newfies though. I know that they can die instantly from a blow to the top of the head even with a fist (very weak skull there), but most of the time they are shot and completely eaten. (even the parts that would turn you green)

 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
If they would put a real effort into eco-tourism, they could earn more money selling tours of the sealing grounds than they can killing seals.

Our east coast is much more accessible than the far north, and the seal hunts, methods, reasons, and history, are far different.
 

MMMike

Council Member
Mar 21, 2005
1,410
1
38
Toronto
Posted on another thread before I saw this one...

Gonzo wrote:
It has always been a big deal here. Most Canadians dont want the seal hunt. It's cruel and pointless. Why does it happen? These neanderthals who hunt seals are sick, and by the way this hunter threatened Van Velzen, they're not very bright. The seal hunt should be made illegal.

Is it cruel? Did a baby seal tell you that? I agree clubbing them over the head is a very low-tech way of killing, but it seems to be efficient. Would it be more 'palatable' somehow if the seals were lined up and sent through a slaughterhouse? If the seals don't suffer, what is the difference in how they are killed?

Is it pointless? It puts food on the table for a lot of sealers. Ask them if it is pointless. These people are not sick, or sadistic - they are just trying to provide for their families. Maybe you could suggest some alternatives??

Seals are not endangered. If there is a legitimate market out there, why should we oppose the seal hunt? Just because they are cute? By the way, I don't buy the argument that this hunt is to protect the cod stocks. I also suspect that this might be a taxpayer subsidized make work program - a far greater offense in my books.
 

peapod

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2004
10,745
0
36
pumpkin pie bungalow
Is it cruel? Did a baby seal tell you that?

Blah! only the arrogance of of the mammal at the top of the food chain could make such a statement. Blah and Blah Blah!
 

peapod

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2004
10,745
0
36
pumpkin pie bungalow
No maybe a connection to the living world told you that gonzo. Its easy to belittle and make fun of the suffering of creatures, after all just look what they do to their own species. Keep your imagination going gonzo, you are "concious of all the worlds of creatures and nature around you". We are the fortuneate ones :wink: 8)
 

Lynaka

New Member
Apr 4, 2005
8
0
1
British Columbia
I agree that the seal hunt looks horrendous, but I can't say I disagree with it...even with my Greenpeace membership glaring at me. The killing of seals is very much equivalent to how we kill cattle in slaughterhouses...just that it happens out in the open for protestors to see. I will agree with those that say it's not about fish stocks. And I don't think many sealers think it's about fish either. It's simply a livelihood that gets them by during the slim times through the harvesting of sealskins from an abundant source.

Since some American friends were asking me about it, I started reading up on it. The CBC site has some interesting perspectives posted. For those that don't want to read either the IFAW or the DFO sites, then how about an article put out by the Canadian Veterinary Journal?

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?pubmedid=12240525
And the CBC Indepth site: http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/sealhunt/

And yes, this is my first post here...Hello. :wink:
 

missile

House Member
Dec 1, 2004
4,846
17
38
Saint John N.B.
It's a shame that the seal meat couldn't be used for food.Waste is one of the worst crimes I can think of! The eskimos had found good uses of every part of the fat beasts,but now are living more or less the same way every one else is.
 

MMMike

Council Member
Mar 21, 2005
1,410
1
38
Toronto
peapod said:
Is it cruel? Did a baby seal tell you that?

Blah! only the arrogance of of the mammal at the top of the food chain could make such a statement. Blah and Blah Blah!

Blah back at you! Seriously, we are at the top of the food chain. We kill all kinds of animals to give us the things we need or want. What is different about a baby seal?