Private Sector vs. Public Sector

[mentalfloss]

It seems to me that with a conservative government and a growing Canadian economy, there will be a new rise in private business and an attempt to quash the public sector. We have already seen the beginning of this trend in the last few months with a couple of examples..

1.) The back to work legislation imposed on Canada post workers
2.) Statscan released some reports of a sharp incline in private workers and decline in public sector workers last month

My question is..

Is it really good for our country to privatize all business?

Obviously, there are economic benefits to doing so. However, we all know that private corporations can ruin a society because they care more about profit than the well being of others. This is a basic fact, isn't it?

My stance is that the public sector should remain for substantially vital services, like healthcare, education and some media news (like CBC, etc.) The private sector should be handling things that go beyond these vital services - our "pleasure enhancers" so to speak. This is where having a good job with good pay can reward you with some neat toys.

But, I'm worried that private corporations are becoming much too involved in the former and people keep forgetting a cardinal rule:

A corporation only cares about profit.

 

[taxslave]

We need to cut costly and unnecessary government services and privatize as many of the rest as possible. This is important because the militant and out of touch government unions are not interested in servicing their customers(taxpayers) but only in maximizing their pay and perks with as little work as possible.
There are no repercussions for government workers that do not do their job or waste money. With contractors we can fire the contractor and hire a new one when we don't like the service they provide.
If government workers did not have the right to strike it might be different but access to government services and programs must not be held hostage by greedy unions.
Much of health care is provided by private business now and should be expanded simply because the service is better and faster.

 

[mentalfloss]

We need to cut costly and unnecessary government services and privatize as many of the rest as possible. This is important because the militant and out of touch government unions are not interested in servicing their customers(taxpayers) but only in maximizing their pay and perks with as little work as possible.

I agree that wasteful services should be privatized. However, it appears that you're assuming that good service will naturally tie into corporate profits and that isn't necessarily the case.

Also, there are additional considerations depending on the industry, which have nothing to do with economic benefit.

There are no repercussions for government workers that do not do their job or waste money. With contractors we can fire the contractor and hire a new one when we don't like the service they provide.

This is a transparency issue.

Once the public finds out that a government service is vastly underperforming - the government should then step in, fire those people and then re-hire more capable individuals. We don't need to mimic a free market, corporate industry to achieve the same means.

Or do we?

 

[taxslave]

I agree that wasteful services should be privatized. However, it appears that you're assuming that good service will naturally tie into corporate profits and that isn't necessarily the case.

Also, there are additional considerations depending on the industry, which have nothing to do with economic benefit.

No, wasteful services must be eliminated.
Good service is what makes corporate profits. Bad service looses you customers which makes u bankrupt.

 

[mentalfloss]

No, wasteful services must be eliminated.
Good service is what makes corporate profits. Bad service looses you customers which makes u bankrupt.

You mean like Rogers and Bell?

Sorry, but that theory is much too naive for me to take seriously.

 

[ironsides]

Just based upon what you said, what would be the incentive for someone to work as a federal employee? Much better for everyone to work in the private sector. Would it be better to allow both public and private healthcare, that is pretty much what the U.S. has now. Mandated insurance policies for all, has been ruled unconstitional for the moment in the U.S.. This new "Obamacare" at first was to save money, but it now has a huge administrative staff to oversee it. They could have incorporated some of the other agencies already in place (Medicare, S.S.I. for examples)

This is a perfect example of what we don't need in government.

Yahoo! Video Detail for Peggy -- Transfer - Discover Card Commercial

 

[mentalfloss]

This new "Obamacare" at first was to save money, but it now has a huge administrative staff to oversee it. They could have incorporated some of the other agencies already in place (Medicare, S.S.I. for examples)

I know, it's crazy.

We've had a AAA credit rating and public healthcare for quite some time now.

 

[coldstream]

All 'natural monopolies' should be publicly owned.. that is defined as structures where it would be economically inefficient to duplicate the massive infrastructure costs involved.. as opposed to delivery costs, which could benefit from a competitive market. These exist only in the areas of communications, transportation, energy and utilities.. and should be priced at long term cost in perpetuity to the consumer.

The government is also responsible for regulating the commercial environment to ensure a level and transparent playing field.. and the tax structure, including tariffs, with the goal of providing full, fairly compensated employment and an equitable sharing of wealth. It is responsible for governing the monetary and credit system which, with protective tariffs, ensure a vital, integrated industrial economy.


In economic terms that is all they have to do..and NONE of this is happening now. In fact all of the 2008 financial crisis.. and the systemic de-industrialization of the economy and polarization of wealth are due to deregulation, privatization and regressive taxation. That's built on the deeper malformations of Free Trade and Monetarism (free market in money).

Our problem now is not too much government.. it's not enough.. not in the right places anyway. Harper and his government, through ignorance, incompetence and ideology.. is entrenching a system that is guaranteed to fail.. in a series of ever more violent shocks.. leading to something truly catastrophic.

 

[mentalfloss]

I wouldn't necessarily say it would lead to something catastrophic, but I am really perturbed by people who want to take all responsibility out of the hands of government and put it into the hands corporations.

 

[ironsides]

I know, it's crazy.

We've had a AAA credit rating and public healthcare for quite some time now.

The AAA or AA+ rating has nothing to do with public healthcare. As I have said before America is Not Broke - Only Congress Is and It Can and will be Replaced.
I like the healthcare I have.

 

[mentalfloss]

The AAA or AA+ rating has nothing to do with public healthcare. As I have said before America is Not Broke - Only Congress Is and It Can and will be Replaced.
I like the healthcare I have.

That's good for you.

Maybe one day a republican might win and reverse it back to the mess it was before.

 

[ironsides]

It hasn't changed, except that a few more who had no insurance are now insured complete with a backup staff of approx. 6 to 1.

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

It seems to me that with a conservative government and a growing Canadian economy, there will be a new rise in private business and an attempt to quash the public sector. We have already seen the beginning of this trend in the last few months with a couple of examples..

1.) The back to work legislation imposed on Canada post workers
2.) Statscan released some reports of a sharp incline in private workers and decline in public sector workers last month

The back to work legislation imposed on postal workers didn't happen overnight. The very fact that the postal service is even around anymore is somewhat of a modern miracle. Their shipping costs are ridiculous and they could easily be replaced by private contract.

My question is..

Is it really good for our country to privatize all business?

As a conservative I would say, "No it isn't good to privatize everything." We certainly do need to keep costs under control and unfortunately there are many areas in the public sector who lack the productivity we get in the public sector.

Obviously, there are economic benefits to doing so. However, we all know that private corporations can ruin a society because they care more about profit than the well being of others. This is a basic fact, isn't it?

Things like garbage pick up are far better when the contractor knows that his work will be scrutinized.

My stance is that the public sector should remain for substantially vital services, like healthcare, education and some media news (like CBC, etc.) The private sector should be handling things that go beyond these vital services - our "pleasure enhancers" so to speak. This is where having a good job with good pay can reward you with some neat toys.

I'm with you except for the CBC.

But, I'm worried that private corporations are becoming much too involved in the former and people keep forgetting a cardinal rule:

A corporation only cares about profit

That is why we must hold them to account,

 

[mentalfloss]

It hasn't changed, except that a few more who had no insurance are now insured complete with a backup staff of approx. 6 to 1.

Well, I'd hardly say that we have the best healthcare (especially compared to France and Italy - which are also public), but hopefully the transition isn't too painful for you guys in the long term. Part of what is making it so difficult is that the change came so much later than everyone else.

That is why we must hold them to account

I agree.

But I also believe it's easier to hold a government accountable (through votes) than it is to hold a corporation accountable.

 

[ironsides]

Well, I'd hardly say that we have the best healthcare (especially compared to France and Italy - which are also public), but hopefully the transition isn't too painful for you guys in the long term. Part of what is making it so difficult is that the change came so much later than everyone else.



I agree.

But I also believe it's easier to hold a government accountable (through votes) than it is to hold a corporation accountable.

Holding a government accountable through votes is not as easy as it sounds, much easier to hold a corporation regulated by the government accountable. Obamacare is now a fact, just that it will not be compulsory for everyone to subscribe to it and you can have private insurance if you desire. I agree, all this would have been much easier to swallow if it was initiated after WW-II.

 

[CDNBear]

There's a reason most municipalities contract out things like garbage collection.

 

[Bar Sinister]

There is a very simple way of testing private vs public. All one has to do is compare two nations that emphasize different systems. If you want a dog eat dog society in which the public sector has been allowed to languish and numerous public services have been privatized one need look no further than our neighbours to the south. A quick comparison of the US to Canada reveals poverty to be much more widespread in the US and its healthcare and schools systems trail Canada's badly. If you want an even more extreme comparison select any of the very socialistic Scandinavian democracies and compare them to the US. In terms of quality of life they beat the US hollow every time.

Another way of comparing public versus private is to look at whether or not the privatization of businesses that were once in the public sector has resulted in improved performance. Perhaps someone else can help me here, but I can think of very few public services that have been privatized that have shown any real improvement.

The privatization of Air Canada has not resulted in lower air fares or improved services; in fact air fares have risen and service has declined. Privatization and deregulation of the electric power industry in Alberta had a similar result with consumers now paying some of the highest prices in Canada. Privatization of liquor stores in Alberta resulted in a great deal more liquor stores and better hours, but it did not lower prices. In fact the cost of alcoholic beverages in Alberta actually increased.

There is little doubt that the private sector does some things very well most of the time. In fact the entire manufacturing sector and many tertiary industries are run exceedingly well. And, as businesses like Apple have shown, some private sector businesses are highly innovative. However, it does a very poor job of providing essential services at a reasonable cost; especially services to those who are less able to pay. The existence of for profit health care in Canada and the US, for example, is one reason why per capita health care costs in both countries continue to increase.

What is needed is not a mindless rush to privatize everything simply for the sake of privatization, but a studied approach in which a good look is taken at an industry before it is privatized, I am reminded of one of the initiatives of the current Liberal government in BC. When it was first elected its first impulse was to privatize as much of the public sector as it could get away with. One industry scheduled for conversion to the private sector was the government owned BC automobile insurance industry. However, after taking a hard look at the industry it was decided that there was little the private sector could do to improve on the service being offered and it was left alone except for a few cosmetic changes.

Change things if necessary, but do not simply change them out of ideological stupidity or to give political supporters in the private sector bigger bank accounts.

 

[mentalfloss]

Good post.

While I'm not averse to some privatization, it's good to get a full spectrum comparison. This is an issue where we can look internationally to see what works and what doesn't.

 

[CDNBear]

A quick comparison of the US to Canada reveals poverty to be much more widespread in the US and its healthcare and schools systems trail Canada's badly.

Gov't workers in the US are paid very well, like in Canada. Schooling is public. And I'd love to see some per capita stats on poverty. The only area I'll agree 100% with, is healthcare. But we've been failing there as well, regardless of the stripe in office.

If you want an even more extreme comparison select any of the very socialistic Scandinavian democracies and compare them to the US. In terms of quality of life they beat the US hollow every time.

At the expense of taxation.

Another way of comparing public versus private is to look at whether or not the privatization of businesses that were once in the public sector has resulted in improved performance. Perhaps someone else can help me here, but I can think of very few public services that have been privatized that have shown any real improvement.

Garbage disposal in my area is great. Hell, they even take the bags from my garbage box at the end of the drive. Even when they aren't tagged.

The privatization of Air Canada has not resulted in lower air fares or improved services; in fact air fares have risen and service has declined.

And the explanation for the same issues with GoTransit is?

Privatization and deregulation of the electric power industry in Alberta had a similar result with consumers now paying some of the highest prices in Canada.

I with ya there.

Privatization of liquor stores in Alberta resulted in a great deal more liquor stores and better hours, but it did not lower prices. In fact the cost of alcoholic beverages in Alberta actually increased.

And yet it's still cheap than in Ontario?!!!

Change things if necessary, but do not simply change them out of ideological stupidity or to give political supporters in the private sector bigger bank accounts.

Couldn't agree more!

Good post.

While I'm not averse to some privatization, it's good to get a full spectrum comparison. This is an issue where we can look internationally to see what works and what doesn't.

Look north.

Our garbage collection is better than yours. Contracted privately and spread out more.

 

[mentalfloss]

At the expense of taxation.

I just want to chime in here to say that I think this is a bit of an overblown issue. If you have a responsible government that democratically allocates tax revenues to the appropriate services, then the people would be more willing to contribute. The problem, imo, is not taxation itself - it's accountability.

Our garbage collection is better than yours. Contracted privately and spread out more.

I still don't think that's necessarily due to funding. Look at the example that Bar Sinister provided. Why is it that garbage collection seems to be a good move, but privatizing air lines was a bad one?