NDP MP Looks to ban MP floor crossing


Durry
#31
Quote: Originally Posted by Retired_Can_SoldierView Post

If a member feels the need to leave their party and cross the floor they should consult with the people who put them there.

Well how do you know he doesn't do this? I assume the ones that want to be re-elected would do this, unofficially. We don't need a law to have elected people do the right thing.

Quote: Originally Posted by PraxiusView Post

Another option is for the MP in question to actually ask their constituents & get a poll going, asking if those who voted for them will accept them going to another party between elections, citing their reasons & justifications why.

See my reply above .
 
Retired_Can_Soldier
+1
#32
Quote: Originally Posted by DurryView Post

Well how do you know he doesn't do this? I assume the ones that want to be re-elected would do this, unofficially. We don't need a law to have elected people do the right thing.

You can't possibly be that naive.
 
Praxius
Free Thinker
#33
Quote: Originally Posted by DurryView Post

Well how do you know he doesn't do this? I assume the ones that want to be re-elected would do this, unofficially. We don't need a law to have elected people do the right thing.

------------------

See my reply above .

If our politicians always did the right thing, we wouldn't require half of the restrictions and regulations within our government in the first place..... the reality is that your claim that we don't need a law to have elected people do the right thing is a bit..... off.

If they don't do the right thing, even when what they should do would be common sense, it is only logical to make laws, rules & regulations to make sure they do.

It's no different then any other job...... If I don't like my job or the way my company runs things, I can quit and then look for another job.... I can't just walk away without any notice, jump onto another competitor and take all my contracts with me without expecting some sort of backlash from my previous employer such as not giving me my last pay or even a lawsuit, nor should I expect my clients to not have an issue of me jumping to another company which will probably do things differently, charge them differently, have different deadlines, have completely different ideals & processes, etc. etc...... especially without their consent beforehand.

They were with my previous employer not just because I was working there, I represented their interests in a particular project and they liked me..... I worked under my employer's/company's name. I might have brought in the client, I might have done everything to please them and keep them as a client...... but they're not my clients, they're my employer's.

Same thing applies to political parties. Regardless of what others may think, most people vote based on the political party, their principles, and the person representing that party in their community & their record..... those votes are not exclusively that MP's and thus, they shouldn't have the freedom to piss off to some other party and taking our votes with them to that other party without our approval first.

As an example, I voted for the representative of the NDP in my riding..... I didn't vote Liberal or Conservative or Green, I voted NDP..... Then suddenly they take off and turn Liberal..... now my vote became a vote for Liberals without my consent.

So what's the solution?

Should I now vote for a Conservative in my riding and hope they switch to NDP after the fact?

Or Liberal?

I noticed you avoided my previous questions, and my answer towards your question about how many crossed the floor in the last 4 years.
 
JLM
No Party Affiliation
+1
#34
Quote: Originally Posted by Retired_Can_SoldierView Post

I wholeheartedly agree with Peter Stoffer. If you are voted in as a specific party member and decide you want to change party's you should have to step down and run a new election campaign.

Absolutely- I detest these political wh*res, David Emerson and Belinda Stronich being recent examples.
 
Cliffy
Free Thinker
#35
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

Absolutely- I detest these political wh*res, David Emerson and Belinda Stronich being recent examples.

Seems to me that today a person would have to prostitute themselves to get into politics in the first place. First you have to sell yourself to your financial backers and then to the public. Perhaps they should install a red light over the from door of parliament.
 
cranky
+1
#36
well, with our current system, we claim to elect the MP, not the party, so the MP can darned well do whatever he likes, then be held accountable at the polls the next time he seeks re-election. It works for some of them, and doesn't for others.

I am not a fan of whipped votes. If we didn't have whipped votes, then we wouldn't have a reduced need for a person to cross the floor, so I would have no problems putting a stop to both practises at the same time.
 
JLM
No Party Affiliation
#37
Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

Seems to me that today a person would have to prostitute themselves to get into politics in the first place. First you have to sell yourself to your financial backers and then to the public. Perhaps they should install a red light over the from door of parliament.

Which would probably be one of the better things they do while in politics.
 
petros
#38
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

That is one of things that was proof to me that both left and right one in the same. Last election I think it was Strahl who went from Libs to Cons strictly becaue of his work with SPP and NAFTA.

Quote:


David Lee Emerson,[2] PC
(born September 17, 1945, in Montreal, Quebec) is a Canadian politician,
businessman and civil servant.

Emerson is a former Member of Parliament for the riding
of Vancouver Kingsway. He was first elected as a Liberal and served as Minister
of Industry under Prime Minister Paul Martin.

After controversially crossing the floor to join Stephen
Harper's Conservatives, he served as Minister of International Trade and
Minister for the Pacific Gateway and the Vancouver-Whistler Olympics, followed
by Minister of Foreign Affairs.

Why was it so important that Harper needed this particular LIBERAL to keep doing what he was doing in regards to the Pacific Gateway and the inland port system being set up in Regina and Winnipeg?

Weren't any of the Cons smart enough to take on the task?

Emerson was the gravy maker taking it up the *** from the Globalists?

How do you like that gravy and cheese on your poutine?
 
JLM
No Party Affiliation
#39
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

Why was it so important that Harper needed this particular LIBERAL to keep doing what he was doing in regards to the Pacific Gateway and the inland port system being set up in Regina and Winnipeg?

Weren't any of the Cons smart enough to take on the task?

Emerson was the gravy maker taking it up the *** from the Globalists?

How do you like that gravy and cheese on your poutine?

It was so important that Harper needed this particular Liberal to increase his number of seats. I don't blame Harper, he's just the "madam"
 
petros
#40
Oh no no no. It wasn't the seats. It was what he was doing in regards to the rape and pillage of Canadian resources and formation of a North American zone like the EU.

They just turned soil a couple days ago on what many hassled me over as a "conspiracy theory" in regards to the NAFTA freight and highway system being established albeit very quietly and cautiously.

Just wait until Albertans and those in SK learn about the slurry pipelines to US refineries so they can cook off the bitumen and kerogen (oil sands and oil shales) all over the continent.
 
Durry
#41
My position on this issue is simple, if you don't like what your MP is doing or has done,,,,, don't vote him in on the next election.
You are the employer, you have the ultimate decision. It is your responsibility send all MP a strong message that it is you who they work for.

Let me give you another example.
Re the asbestos situation;
The NDP candidate went to these miners and told them, vote for me and I'll represent you in Ottawa. Now this NDP MP got elected.
Layton now wants these mines shut down and the workers put on the poggy..
He (Layton) never told these miners, before they voted, that NDP would throw them out of work.

Now, this NDP MP is going back to these miners and telling them, thanks for voting for me, now I'm going to close your mine and throw you out of work.

If this MP had an once of decency, he would cross the floor to the Cons who are protecting the miners jobs, and tell Layton to go to hell. And he can do this, but if this was law that he couldn't, then Layton would excercise his dictatorial powers.
 
petros
+1
#42
Where do you come up with this stuff?
 
Unforgiven
#43
Crossing the floor certainly does cause problems for those who simply vote for the party and pay no attention to what the candidate has to say. I can see why someone would be angry about that sort of thing happening and making them look a bit silly should they make it known who they voted for.
 
petros
#44
I'm still baffled how my MP made Speaker of the House. I guess that is a reward for doing absolutely nothing in 7 years.
 
Tonington
+1
#45
Quote: Originally Posted by Retired_Can_SoldierView Post

The voter is taken completely out of the process and that is utter bull crap. This is something I vehemently oppose whether it is done by the opposition or the party I support.

It also completely bypasses the selection process for local candidates. When Bill Casey was punted by the Conservative party officials, the local riding association wanted to keep him as their Conservative candidate in the following election. The Conservative party basically had to clean house in the riding association, and parachute some sham candidate into the riding. Bill Casey won the next election with 69% of the popular vote as an Independent...a rare person on the Hill.
 
Machjo
#46
Quote: Originally Posted by Retired_Can_SoldierView Post

I wholeheartedly agree with Peter Stoffer. If you are voted in as a specific party member and decide you want to change party's you should have to step down and run a new election campaign.

I totally disagree. Taking it further, should the MP adopt a new religion, etc. will he have to re-run too?

Or what if the party ran on a particular promise, and another party having made the same promise is going through with it. Should a principled member of the first party not be allowed to change party without running again while the rest of his party can sit unchallenged?

I totally disagree with this bill. Clearly another party power-grab.
 
Unforgiven
#47
Or what if the Leader of the party just up and kicks you out without an explanation and tells the RCMP to investigate you for some unspecified activities?
 
Mowich
Conservative
+1
#48
Quote: Originally Posted by Retired_Can_SoldierView Post

Horse hockey! If they want to leave the party they are welcome to go, but they should sit as an independent until the next election or relinquish their seat.

Agreed, RCS. They sit as an independent until a by-election is called. How can someone join a party then become a candidate, get elected and then decide - Oops! I guess I don't really agree with this party's platform after all? I could actually understand it a bit coming from some of the newly elected NDP members in Quebec as many of them were almost snatched off the street to run, but the Libs and the Cons - no way. Good post, RCS.
 
wulfie68
No Party Affiliation
#49
Quote: Originally Posted by UnforgivenView Post

Or what if the Leader of the party just up and kicks you out without an explanation and tells the RCMP to investigate you for some unspecified activities?

If the leader expels you from caucus, then you are free to look at other options, including joining another party but thats not the same as quitting and joining someone else.

And no Machjo, I don't think a religiou conversion has any bearing in this, unless it is accompanied by a radical shift in values espoused by a candidate.
 
JLM
No Party Affiliation
#50
Quote: Originally Posted by wulfie68View Post

If the leader expels you from caucus, then you are free to look at other options, including joining another party but thats not the same as quitting and joining someone else.

And no Machjo, I don't think a religiou conversion has any bearing in this, unless it is accompanied by a radical shift in values espoused by a candidate.

Agreed BUT only with endorsement from the electorate!
 
Machjo
#51
What about freedom of association? In the end, as long as the candidate is free to vote as per his conscience, then what does it matter what party he's a member of.
 
wulfie68
No Party Affiliation
#52
Quote: Originally Posted by MachjoView Post

What about freedom of association? In the end, as long as the candidate is free to vote as per his conscience, then what does it matter what party he's a member of.

You're starting to confuse the basic freedoms of an individual with the restrictions that a person representing others voluntarily takes on when they choose to run for and hold office. When you run, the social contract with your electorate is (or is supposed to be) that you will represent your constituents and their interests to the best of your ability and judgement. When a person takes on that responisbility, they are acknowledging that their own wishes are secondary to those they represent (or again at least theoretically... in reality it usually plays out differently but the theory and hope that it will be followed is how we vote). Its like a soldier swearing to follow lawful orders or a police officer or judge vowing to uphold the law, thats why we swear in elected bodies, as a reminder of the trust that is placed in them.
 
Machjo
#53
Quote: Originally Posted by wulfie68View Post

You're starting to confuse the basic freedoms of an individual with the restrictions that a person representing others voluntarily takes on when they choose to run for and hold office. When you run, the social contract with your electorate...

... Exactly, with your electorate, not with your party.

As long as you vote your conscience and not party line, then your party membership becomes irrelevant. Party membership is relevant only in a partisan electoral system. The bill being proposed in the OP makes sense only in a PR system, not one where you vote for a candidate under a plurality system.

If this MP really wants the Bill to pass, then first he should present a bill to change to a PR electoral system, then within that context this bill would make sense. Until then, as long as we're voting candidate in an electoral system where we are in fact voting candidate and not party, then the candidate has no obligation whatsoever to the party on behalf of his constituents.
 
The Old Medic
Conservative
#54
It will never become a rule. He can bleat to his hearts content about this, but let one Conservative decide to join the NDP, and they WILL allow it to happen,.
 
Retired_Can_Soldier
#55
Quote: Originally Posted by UnforgivenView Post

Or what if the Leader of the party just up and kicks you out without an explanation and tells the RCMP to investigate you for some unspecified activities?

I love this.

Up until the point Harper punted the Diva of PEI the opposition was calling for her head on a stick.

Funny how attitudes change.

I can dig up some Iggy footage if you like, but you know I'm right.

And by the way, this isn't about Conservatism or Liberalism its about the voter of which we both are and rightly so we should be considered before these *** bags abandon our vote to pursue their own interests.
 
Nuggler
-1
#56
Quote: Originally Posted by DurryView Post

Hey, it's NOT a problem!!

How many MP's have crossed the floor in the last 4 yrs.???

NDP want a law to a problem that does not exist!!

Typical NDP!



Yes! Like harsher sentences for "unreported crime".....(Jockwell Stay)...............Get a fukkin life.


We should make them all WASH the floors.
 
Bar Sinister
No Party Affiliation
#57
Quote: Originally Posted by crankyView Post

well, with our current system, we claim to elect the MP, not the party, so the MP can darned well do whatever he likes, then be held accountable at the polls the next time he seeks re-election. It works for some of them, and doesn't for others.

I am not a fan of whipped votes. If we didn't have whipped votes, then we wouldn't have a reduced need for a person to cross the floor, so I would have no problems putting a stop to both practises at the same time.

Precisely. If Canadians really want MPs to vote their conscience then MPs must have the freedom to stand on their principles and defy their own party; even to the extent of joining a different party. After all, political parties are artificial constructs, not a sacred part of the system.
 
Nuggler
-1
#58
Quote: Originally Posted by DurryView Post

Like I said, it's not a problem and typical of small people to get all wrapped up in minior issues that have no consquences.

This will never become law anytime soon and anybody who thinks it should does not understand politics let alone how our country operates !!


What's a "minior" issue??
 
Machjo
#59
Quote: Originally Posted by DurryView Post

My position on this issue is simple, if you don't like what your MP is doing or has done,,,,, don't vote him in on the next election.
You are the employer, you have the ultimate decision. It is your responsibility send all MP a strong message that it is you who they work for.

Let me give you another example.
Re the asbestos situation;
The NDP candidate went to these miners and told them, vote for me and I'll represent you in Ottawa. Now this NDP MP got elected.
Layton now wants these mines shut down and the workers put on the poggy..
He (Layton) never told these miners, before they voted, that NDP would throw them out of work.

Now, this NDP MP is going back to these miners and telling them, thanks for voting for me, now I'm going to close your mine and throw you out of work.

If this MP had an once of decency, he would cross the floor to the Cons who are protecting the miners jobs, and tell Layton to go to hell. And he can do this, but if this was law that he couldn't, then Layton would excercise his dictatorial powers.

Or rather than join the Conservative Party, better to just stand as an independent. That way he could even better represent his constituents than to be held by the nuts by some nut... er, I mean party.
 
Durry
-1
#60
Quote: Originally Posted by MachjoView Post

Or rather than join the Conservative Party, better to just stand as an independent. That way he could even better represent his constituents than to be held by the nuts by some nut... er, I mean party.

Yes, he could go as an independent, the only thing as an independent he would have almost zero influence on structuring new laws or policies for the country.
But in any case, I think it's just a farce for him to support the NDP when they promised to represent them during the election campaign!!
 

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