#1Jan 13th, 2012
Petition:
--
Freedom of choice!
Thank you.
Quebec’s Civil Code denies women’s basic freedom of choice
Petition:
--
Freedom of choice!
Thank you.
+1
#3Re: Quebec’s Civil Code denies women’s basic freedom of choice
Jan 14th, 2012Quote: Originally Posted by L Gilbert
Thank you.Sounds fair to me.
#4
Re: Quebec’s Civil Code denies women’s basic freedom of choice
Jan 14th, 2012
Got the wifey signing it, too.
#5
Re: Quebec’s Civil Code denies women’s basic freedom of choice
Jan 14th, 2012
Thank you both so much! With people like you and your wife we can change the world! 
)
) #6
Re: Quebec’s Civil Code denies women’s basic freedom of choice
Jan 14th, 2012Quote: Originally Posted by Madi
hehehehe I won't hold my breath on that one.Thank you both so much! With people like you and your wife we can change the world!
+2
#7 Top Rated PostRe: Quebec’s Civil Code denies women’s basic freedom of choice
Jan 14th, 2012Quote:
The notion that women do not become Mrs <husband's name> is patriarchical? That's backwards thinking. Sinse the honorific "Mrs" is essentially just mister's (genitive), it is easy to conclude that a Mrs is just an extension of the husband. On top of that, in many nations--such as France and Italy--women do not take the name of their husbands. Why would they? It is the asymmetry which is sexist.Inherited from old France, the habit of calling women by their maiden surnames is nothing but another patriarchal, backward stance, regrettably prolonged and accepted today by women in Quebec without any reaction.
On top of that, the article is just confused. It is not that women are forbidden from taking the names of their spouse, it is just that in Quebec, a name change is not automatic with a marriage. A spouse who wishes to take the partner's name must just apply like any other legal person. It is not a human rights issue at all but rather a question of civil convenience. Presumably in Quebec they decided that the allowance for an automatic name change implied that women should do it. So by making it somewhat difficult, they ensure that it truly is the woman's choice and not just a reflex from patriarchical tradition.
So no, I will not sign this survey. I think it is badly misguided.
#8
Re: Quebec’s Civil Code denies women’s basic freedom of choice
Jan 14th, 2012Quote: Originally Posted by Madi
Anyone is able to legally change their name if they want to. Even in Quebec, you can pay $127 and make an application. No problem.Quebec women should have the right to choose to adopt their husband's name, which is currently forbidden by a sexist provincial law. Read more here: Open letter to the Government of Quebec: Quebec
Petition:
--
Freedom of choice!
Thank you.
#9
Re: Quebec’s Civil Code denies women’s basic freedom of choice
Jan 14th, 2012
I could sign it, but seeing that I'm not a Quebec resident, I don't know that it will mean much to the Quebec government.
#10
Re: Quebec’s Civil Code denies women’s basic freedom of choice
Jan 14th, 2012
Love Quebec. Hate on-line petitions.
#11
Re: Quebec’s Civil Code denies women’s basic freedom of choice
Jan 14th, 2012
Nothing against petitions per se. In fact, I strongly support them in a healthy democracy. Practically speaking though, no Quebec politician will care about a petition signed by non-Quebecers. From that pont of view, I'm making the petition more valid by not signing it for not being a resident of its jurisdiction.
+1
#12Re: Quebec’s Civil Code denies women’s basic freedom of choice
Jan 14th, 2012
This is a bit confusing. So ... when people are married, they legally keep their birth names ... but if they want, they can apply to change their last name to that of the husband? I think that's how it is in much of Europe. Women often go by the husband's last name, but legally they have their own last name. How is that a problem? I think that's how it is in most of the country. Women can change their last names to that of their husband or keep their own name.
Am I missing something? Do women in Quebec want to automaticaly be stripped of their last name when they marry?
Am I missing something? Do women in Quebec want to automaticaly be stripped of their last name when they marry?
#13
Re: Quebec’s Civil Code denies women’s basic freedom of choice
Jan 14th, 2012
My understanding is that in Quebe the woman's last name does not automatically change, but she can apply to change it.
If that's the case, then I see no problem with that.
By the way, I think it's that way in most countries in the world anyway. I know the Chinese, Etheopians, many Arabs and many Persians keep their maden names too.
So depending on the details of the petition, maybe I still wouldn't sign it even if I were a Quebec resident.
If that's the case, then I see no problem with that.
By the way, I think it's that way in most countries in the world anyway. I know the Chinese, Etheopians, many Arabs and many Persians keep their maden names too.
So depending on the details of the petition, maybe I still wouldn't sign it even if I were a Quebec resident.
#14
Re: Quebec’s Civil Code denies women’s basic freedom of choice
Jan 14th, 2012Quote: Originally Posted by Machjo
When I got married, my last name didn't automatically change and I don't live in Quebec. Where does a woman's name automatically change through marriage? I've been married but I don't want to change my last name ... university degrees are issued under a specific name ... changing the name screws up stuff like that.My understanding is that in Quebe the woman's last name does not automatically change, but she can apply to change it.
If that's the case, then I see no problem with that.
By the way, I think it's that way in most countries in the world anyway. I know the Chinese, Etheopians, many Arabs and many Persians keep their maden names too.
So depending on the details of the petition, maybe I still wouldn't sign it even if I were a Quebec resident.
#15
Re: Quebec’s Civil Code denies women’s basic freedom of choice
Jan 14th, 2012Quote: Originally Posted by Niflmir
I think the QC gov't made it a issue of rights, though.The notion that women do not become Mrs <husband's name> is patriarchical? That's backwards thinking. Sinse the honorific "Mrs" is essentially just mister's (genitive), it is easy to conclude that a Mrs is just an extension of the husband. On top of that, in many nations--such as France and Italy--women do not take the name of their husbands. Why would they? It is the asymmetry which is sexist.
On top of that, the article is just confused. It is not that women are forbidden from taking the names of their spouse, it is just that in Quebec, a name change is not automatic with a marriage. A spouse who wishes to take the partner's name must just apply like any other legal person. It is not a human rights issue at all but rather a question of civil convenience. Presumably in Quebec they decided that the allowance for an automatic name change implied that women should do it. So by making it somewhat difficult, they ensure that it truly is the woman's choice and not just a reflex from patriarchical tradition.
So no, I will not sign this survey. I think it is badly misguided.
Why should a woman accept the QC gov'ts demand that they acquire their husband's name? Why should they have to pay extra to change their name?
#16
Re: Quebec’s Civil Code denies women’s basic freedom of choice
Jan 14th, 2012Quote: Originally Posted by L Gilbert
How is it a problem? Is a Quebec woman obligated to change her name ... and, if not, what's the problem? She can change her name or keep the one she was born with ... how many more rights does a woman from Quebec need? Do I have to be from Quebec to believe that I will have more rights if I automatically loose my name when I get married?I think the QC gov't made it a issue of rights, though.
Why should a woman accept the QC gov'ts demand that they acquire their husband's name? Why should they have to pay extra to change their name?
#17
Re: Quebec’s Civil Code denies women’s basic freedom of choice
Jan 14th, 2012Quote: Originally Posted by Ariadne
Oooops. I had it backward:How is it a problem? Is a Quebec woman obligated to change her name ... and, if not, what's the problem? She can change her name or keep the one she was born with ... how many more rights does a woman from Quebec need? Do I have to be from Quebec to believe that I will have more rights if I automatically loose my name when I get married?
Quebec newlywed furious she can't take her husband
"Women keep their birth name after marriage and continue to exercise their civil rights under that name, i.e. they must use their birth name in contracts, on credit cards, on their driver's licence, etc. They are free however to assume their husband's name socially."
This rule applies to all women domiciled in Québec, even if they married outside Québec or outside Canada, except women married before April 2, 1981 already using their husband's last name to exercise their civil rights."
Source: Justice.gouv.qc.ca
Weird. So legally they have to pay extra to adopt their husbands' names.
#18
Re: Quebec’s Civil Code denies women’s basic freedom of choice
Jan 14th, 2012
First of all, I must say that I am surprised to read certain comments.
It is weird to see that the fact that a married woman in Quebec is not legally allowed to take her husband's surname and use it on her official documents doesn't bother some of the feminists who bothered to write comments on this thread.
They are very vocal when it comes to trumpeting the virtue of being a single mother or a teenage one or even the right to be a prostitute (extreme feminism, isn't it?), but are quasi-inexistent when it comes to condemning "honour killings" or simply a situation such as this one in Quebec.
Some comments show nothing but ignorance and bitterness, as well as some sort of irritation related to Quebec.
For those who are not informed about the law in Quebec:
A woman married in Quebec after 1981 MUST RETAIN HER MAIDEN NAME AND ALL HER OFFICIAL DOCUMENTS ARE EMITTED SUCH AS.
In Quebec, you can change your given name or surname to whatever you want (for a fee), but not to your husband’s surname.
FORCING women to keep their maiden name is, in my humble opinion, a blatant violation of human rights.
This is a matter of basic freedom of choice.
In numerous civilized countries, a married woman CAN CHOOSE THE SURNAME she wants to go by.
In the rest of Canada, women also have this basic right.
In Quebec, before 1981, women had to take their husband’s surname.
After 1981, women ARE NOT ALLOWED to take their husband’s surname.
One compulsion replaced by another one.
How is it a problem? Is a Quebec woman obligated to change her name ... and, if not, what's the problem? She can change her name or keep the one she was born with ... how many more rights does a woman from Quebec need? Do I have to be from Quebec to believe that I will have more rights if I automatically loose my name when I get married?
One more right … the right to choose. I assume that you have it.
On top of that, the article is just confused. It is not that women are forbidden from taking the names of their spouse, it is just that in Quebec, a name change is not automatic with a marriage. A spouse who wishes to take the partner's name must just apply like any other legal person. It is not a human rights issue at all but rather a question of civil convenience. Presumably in Quebec they decided that the allowance for an automatic name change implied that women should do it. So by making it somewhat difficult, they ensure that it truly is the woman's choice and not just a reflex from patriarchical tradition.
So no, I will not sign this survey. I think it is badly misguided.
Send an e-mail to Directeur de l'état civil du Québec to get informed. Tell them that you want to legally use your husband’s surname on all your official documents.
When I got married, my last name didn't automatically change and I don't live in Quebec. Where does a woman's name automatically change through marriage? I've been married but I don't want to change my last name ... university degrees are issued under a specific name ... changing the name screws up stuff like that.
In Quebec, the bride’s surname remains the same; it is not automatically changed…
Japan doesn’t seem to be that “screwed up”, and they also have university degrees…
Even in such a traditional society, today a couple can choose the family name they want to go by. It can be the man’s or the woman’s.
By the way, I think it's that way in most countries in the world anyway. I know the Chinese, Etheopians, many Arabs and many Persians keep their maden names too.
True, as in many cultures there is no equivalent of an English (western) “surname”.
But in numerous European cultures, a woman is allowed to legally use her husband’s surname.
I guess that some of the commentators are not of European stock, so this could be an obstacle in understanding the issue.
Traditionally, Arabs have not used family names in the Western manner and many still do not. Instead, in many cases, they simply add their father's first name or grandfather's first name.
These “sur”-names might be preceded by the “bin/ben (male)”, which means “son of” or “bint” which means “daughter of”.
Some Arabs go by their clan/tribe name.
In many Arab villages, people belong to the same clan, thus they have the same “surname”.
In some areas in India, the middle name is vital. In case of males, the middle name is his father's name while for females, the middle name is the husband's name.
As you might have observed, all Sikhs take the same second name: Singh meaning (lions). In the case of males, the third or last name is a caste name. In the case of females, the third name is often Kaur which identifies her gender.
So, as you can see, it’s like apples and oranges…
This petition is about the right to choose your surname upon marriage.
Why is this that difficult to accept?
It is weird to see that the fact that a married woman in Quebec is not legally allowed to take her husband's surname and use it on her official documents doesn't bother some of the feminists who bothered to write comments on this thread.
They are very vocal when it comes to trumpeting the virtue of being a single mother or a teenage one or even the right to be a prostitute (extreme feminism, isn't it?), but are quasi-inexistent when it comes to condemning "honour killings" or simply a situation such as this one in Quebec.
Some comments show nothing but ignorance and bitterness, as well as some sort of irritation related to Quebec.
For those who are not informed about the law in Quebec:
A woman married in Quebec after 1981 MUST RETAIN HER MAIDEN NAME AND ALL HER OFFICIAL DOCUMENTS ARE EMITTED SUCH AS.
In Quebec, you can change your given name or surname to whatever you want (for a fee), but not to your husband’s surname.
FORCING women to keep their maiden name is, in my humble opinion, a blatant violation of human rights.
This is a matter of basic freedom of choice.
In numerous civilized countries, a married woman CAN CHOOSE THE SURNAME she wants to go by.
In the rest of Canada, women also have this basic right.
In Quebec, before 1981, women had to take their husband’s surname.
After 1981, women ARE NOT ALLOWED to take their husband’s surname.
One compulsion replaced by another one.
How is it a problem? Is a Quebec woman obligated to change her name ... and, if not, what's the problem? She can change her name or keep the one she was born with ... how many more rights does a woman from Quebec need? Do I have to be from Quebec to believe that I will have more rights if I automatically loose my name when I get married?
One more right … the right to choose. I assume that you have it.
On top of that, the article is just confused. It is not that women are forbidden from taking the names of their spouse, it is just that in Quebec, a name change is not automatic with a marriage. A spouse who wishes to take the partner's name must just apply like any other legal person. It is not a human rights issue at all but rather a question of civil convenience. Presumably in Quebec they decided that the allowance for an automatic name change implied that women should do it. So by making it somewhat difficult, they ensure that it truly is the woman's choice and not just a reflex from patriarchical tradition.
So no, I will not sign this survey. I think it is badly misguided.
Send an e-mail to Directeur de l'état civil du Québec to get informed. Tell them that you want to legally use your husband’s surname on all your official documents.
When I got married, my last name didn't automatically change and I don't live in Quebec. Where does a woman's name automatically change through marriage? I've been married but I don't want to change my last name ... university degrees are issued under a specific name ... changing the name screws up stuff like that.
In Quebec, the bride’s surname remains the same; it is not automatically changed…
Japan doesn’t seem to be that “screwed up”, and they also have university degrees…
Even in such a traditional society, today a couple can choose the family name they want to go by. It can be the man’s or the woman’s.
By the way, I think it's that way in most countries in the world anyway. I know the Chinese, Etheopians, many Arabs and many Persians keep their maden names too.
True, as in many cultures there is no equivalent of an English (western) “surname”.
But in numerous European cultures, a woman is allowed to legally use her husband’s surname.
I guess that some of the commentators are not of European stock, so this could be an obstacle in understanding the issue.
Traditionally, Arabs have not used family names in the Western manner and many still do not. Instead, in many cases, they simply add their father's first name or grandfather's first name.
These “sur”-names might be preceded by the “bin/ben (male)”, which means “son of” or “bint” which means “daughter of”.
Some Arabs go by their clan/tribe name.
In many Arab villages, people belong to the same clan, thus they have the same “surname”.
In some areas in India, the middle name is vital. In case of males, the middle name is his father's name while for females, the middle name is the husband's name.
As you might have observed, all Sikhs take the same second name: Singh meaning (lions). In the case of males, the third or last name is a caste name. In the case of females, the third name is often Kaur which identifies her gender.
So, as you can see, it’s like apples and oranges…
This petition is about the right to choose your surname upon marriage.
Why is this that difficult to accept?
#19
Re: Quebec’s Civil Code denies women’s basic freedom of choice
Jan 14th, 2012
I don't understand what all the fuss is about. I use both names, driver licence, medicare are in my maiden name but Prov. and Fed. income taxes are in my married name.
#20
Re: Quebec’s Civil Code denies women’s basic freedom of choice
Jan 14th, 2012Quote: Originally Posted by Sparrow
You live in Quebec?I don't understand what all the fuss is about. I use both names, driver licence, medicare are in my maiden name but Prov. and Fed. income taxes are in my married name.
#21
Re: Quebec’s Civil Code denies women’s basic freedom of choice
Jan 14th, 2012
Isnt marriage a federal thing anyway?
#22
Re: Quebec’s Civil Code denies women’s basic freedom of choice
Jan 15th, 2012Quote: Originally Posted by WLDB
... not in Quebec.Isnt marriage a federal thing anyway?
#23
Re: Quebec’s Civil Code denies women’s basic freedom of choice
Jan 15th, 2012Quote: Originally Posted by Madi
I can understand your surprise, because your argument falls apart at the second sentence.First of all, I must say that I am surprised to read certain comments.
It is weird to see that the fact that a married woman in Quebec is not legally allowed to take her husband's surname and use it on her official documents doesn't bother some of the feminists who bothered to write comments on this thread.
You seem to misunderstand the law. Let me point you to the office that will change your name for you: --. A woman is allowed to take her husband's name. She just has to apply for a legal name change, it is not automatic with marriage.
There is no need to discuss the remaining points of your argument since everything else is based on this faulty premise. I will point out that you are using terms from feminist theory in a way which most people would consider incorrect. I must ask, have you studied feminist theory at all, or your understanding picked up from osmosis?
#24
Re: Quebec’s Civil Code denies women’s basic freedom of choice
Jan 15th, 2012Quote: Originally Posted by Madi
FORCING women to keep their maiden name is, in my humble opinion, a blatant violation of human rights.
This is a matter of basic freedom of choice.
This petition is about the right to choose your surname upon marriage.
Why is this that difficult to accept?
You can change your name if you want to, you just have to apply to do it.
Why you think it is a human rights violation, I don't know. Save your energy for something that matters, the delusion that you need to change your name because you got married is silly.
#25
Re: Quebec’s Civil Code denies women’s basic freedom of choice
Jan 15th, 2012
And just a clarification. Though I am mostly "of European stock", that is not a requirement to being open to allowing a woman the freedom to choose or not to change her maiden name. Quebec grants that freedom, so what's the problem.
#26
Re: Quebec’s Civil Code denies women’s basic freedom of choice
Jan 15th, 2012
Madi,
Do you support a man's right to adopt his wife's name?
Do you support a man's right to adopt his wife's name?
#28
Re: Quebec’s Civil Code denies women’s basic freedom of choice
Jan 15th, 2012
I believe Quebec allows that too. It's just that it does not happen by default.
#29
Re: Quebec’s Civil Code denies women’s basic freedom of choice
Jan 15th, 2012
I've always said that Women should keep their maiden names after marriage, throughout Canada....
Not only that, but children should take their mother's last name....
After all there are plenty of witnesses at the hospital as to who the mother is....but only one to prove who the father is......but even then, that witness has been proven inconclusive on Gerry Springer
Not only that, but children should take their mother's last name....
After all there are plenty of witnesses at the hospital as to who the mother is....but only one to prove who the father is......but even then, that witness has been proven inconclusive on Gerry Springer
#30
Re: Quebec’s Civil Code denies women’s basic freedom of choice
Jan 15th, 2012Quote: Originally Posted by DaSleeper
Well, naming a boy after the father makes some genetic sense. Naming children after their mother always makes genetic sense. In the case of a paternal lineage (assuming no fraud like you name) then you can unambiguously track the Y-chromosome back in time. With maternal lineage you can of course always track mitochondrial DNA, boy or girl.I've always said that Women should keep their maiden names after marriage, throughout Canada....
Not only that, but children should take their mother's last name....
After all there are plenty of witnesses at the hospital as to who the mother is....but only one to prove who the father is......but even then, that witness has been proven inconclusive on Gerry Springer
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