Why The Liberals Should be Booted Out of Office

[Chake99]

I know I posted this on another thread, but it is now locked, so here is another thread. Maybe we can keep this thread on topic and have a civil discussion, without resorting to crap:

Let's take a look back at the Liberals since 1993 to see why they should be booted from office. This is probably a partial list, so feel free to add on. And in all fairness, if anyone can think of any good things the Liberals have done since 1993 :? by all means add them on too:

Promise to kill the GST. Promise broken.

anyone who believed something like that has problems. Unless they promised that not knowing their conservative precursors were running a huge yearly deficit

Promise to kill NAFTA. Promise broken.

which from my knowledge Canada seems to be on the winning side on

Promise to clean up corruption. Promise broken.

atleast they expose it as opposed to covering it up

Promise to end separatism threats. Promise broken.

and the conservatives could have?

Promise to be fiscally responsible. Promise broken.

completely wrong, we haven't run a deficit in the last 10 years the most in the countries history, and we're paying down the deficit which currently 1/5 of taxes go to pay interest on

Praising the military and its members while cutting the military funding.

I do not see your point. And I thought that Martin increased military finding when he was elected

HRDC Billion Dollar Boondoggle.

Gun registry cost overruns from $2million to $2billion.

Secret Foundation accounts with no accountability.

EI surplus of $46billion created on the backs of workers and business' of every size in Canada.

and then reinvested in services they recieve or spent paying down the deficit, which actually lower taxes and gives the government more money in the long run.

600,000 immigrants whose whereabouts are unknown.

and this number was many times better under conservatives?

Chretien saying 9-11 was the US's fault.

in many ways it was.

Not supporting the US in their response to 9-11.

we supported the US' response to 9/11, we just didn't support the war which they used 9/11 propaganda to justify.

No action on BSE crisis.
No action on Softwood lumber crisis.
Purposely alienating our largest trading partner. (See BSE and Softwood lumber)
Lying about conservative "hidden agenda" with no facts to back it up.
Lying about conservatives "agenda" to totally privatize health care, again with no facts.
Accusing residents of Prince George BC of burning crosses on their lawns.

unaware of these instances so I cannot rebutt them but I judge they are of the same poor quality as the rest of your points.

Lying when saying the conservatives will outlaw homosexuality.

they exaggerated. A tactic you conservatives are not above "It will lead to polygamy!!!!!!!"

Chretien accusing Alberta of being "the dark side" in 2000 election.

and in his mind it was I'll skip to the end...

Pretending that the Liberals are the victims in Adscam ?!!?

the non-guilty ones are, they pay taxes to and their chance of being elected is shrinking

Going after Brian Mulroney in court over an alleged Airbus scandal, and losing, costing us millions more dollars.

BS. The government said aomething and Mulroney sued for Libel. If your conservatives care so much about tax dollars why would they sue.

 

[Chake99]

Re: RE: Why The Liberals Shou

Stephen Harper is siding with the Separatists. As a staunch supporter of Canadian unity I cannot stand for that.

same

Stephen Harper opposes the rights of homosexuals, as a strong supporter of equality and fairness I cannot condone that.

He is not. He is for equal rights but not for the word marriage being used

Stephen Harper promised to consult Canadians before attempting to bring down the Liberal government. He then proceeded with attempts to bring them down despite public opinion to the contrary.

amen.

As a strong believer in honesty and the keeping of promises, I must oppose him.

so you would drop the NDP as soon as the break an election promise? Doubt it. The Conservatives in my experience actually keep the most promises, but go into massive debt doing it and hide the fact.

Stephen Harper approves of the policies of George W. Bush and his corrupt, miltaristic adminstration.
{/quote]
I would say Jingoistic is more apt than militaristic but I agree

As one who opposes such miltarism and bullying tactics, and believes in diplomacy and reason to solve disputes between nations, I will not support a government in this country that would aid him in illegal

last time I checked the war's legality had not been confirmed either way.

and unjustified wars and invasions and in destroying innocent people's freedom in the name of "democracy".

If your referring to the freedom of the people of the US I agree.

If I had my way, the Liberals would fall, but it would be Jack Layton and the NDP who would rise to suceed them.

*shudders*
I hate Jack Layton's smile. Whenever I see that smile on someone else I want to strangle them. That is the smile I a person in my tent at my old summer camp wore nearly constantly, and every second word that came out of his mouth was bullshit. He honestly could not stop fabricating lies.

You can usually get an emotional feel of what someone is thinking by putting your mouth in the same position. When you put your mouth into that form the dominant feeling is a sort of craftiness and a feeling that everyone is doing exactly as you want without knowing it.

But I may just not like him

Jack Layton has used sense and reason, he has not resorted to petty bickering, as the Conservatives and Liberals have.

If someone's a politician they already have.

Jack Layton supports the rights of homosexuals and other minorities.

and who claims not to? Except maybe the Republicans

Jack Layton would maintain all the things that make us different from the US, our national health-care system, which Stephen Harper would seek to undermine and weaken,

true

and our focus on social programs run by the government,

Half of which don't make economic sense, I'll recount the NDP housing in Ontario if you wish,

rather then on programs like education and healthcare being provided corperations which ultimately exsist only to make fat cats fatter and drain the fiananical resources of average everyday people, who just want to make an honest living.

Yes corporations exist to enrich themselves, but a responsible government will manipulate the laws so that they enrich everyone around them in the process.

The Conservatives care only for their own gain, the NDP care for the people.

you skew it. All parties care only for their own gain, but they may define their gain as the good of the people.

 

[Jo Canadian]

 

[bluealberta]

Re: RE: Why The Liberals Shou

Actually, I think a case can be made that the Bloc is siding with the Conservatives. For those of us on the right, the NDP siding with the corrupt and fiscally mismanaging Liberals is bizarre.

Unlike your Conservative pals, the NDP are actually trying to get something useful done. And they forced the Liberals to get rid of those corperate tax cuts from the budget. Which was a good thing. The fat cats do NOT need more money. Now that is more money to be spent on the social programs Canadians value. Of course Stephen Harper intends to destroy that budget, and will probably get a new one made which will cut taxes masively to the fat cats and starve the social programs we need.

which, again shows that he is out of touch with Canadian values.

All what you said is strictly your opinion, which does not make it fact, simply because a leftist said so. Corporate Tax cuts are not bad, nor are they necessarily good. Last time I checked, our social programs could go on a diet, they are horribly mismanaged, and open to corruption, as we have all seen. And the conservatives are more in touch with the country than any of the other parties.

 

[bluealberta]

I know I posted this on another thread, but it is now locked, so here is another thread. Maybe we can keep this thread on topic and have a civil discussion, without resorting to crap:

Let's take a look back at the Liberals since 1993 to see why they should be booted from office. This is probably a partial list, so feel free to add on. And in all fairness, if anyone can think of any good things the Liberals have done since 1993 :? by all means add them on too:

Promise to kill the GST. Promise broken.

anyone who believed something like that has problems. Unless they promised that not knowing their conservative precursors were running a huge yearly deficit

Promise to kill NAFTA. Promise broken.

which from my knowledge Canada seems to be on the winning side on

Promise to clean up corruption. Promise broken.

atleast they expose it as opposed to covering it up

Promise to end separatism threats. Promise broken.

and the conservatives could have?

Promise to be fiscally responsible. Promise broken.

completely wrong, we haven't run a deficit in the last 10 years the most in the countries history, and we're paying down the deficit which currently 1/5 of taxes go to pay interest on

Praising the military and its members while cutting the military funding.

I do not see your point. And I thought that Martin increased military finding when he was elected

HRDC Billion Dollar Boondoggle.

Gun registry cost overruns from $2million to $2billion.

Secret Foundation accounts with no accountability.

EI surplus of $46billion created on the backs of workers and business' of every size in Canada.

and then reinvested in services they recieve or spent paying down the deficit, which actually lower taxes and gives the government more money in the long run.

600,000 immigrants whose whereabouts are unknown.

and this number was many times better under conservatives?

Chretien saying 9-11 was the US's fault.

in many ways it was.

Not supporting the US in their response to 9-11.

we supported the US' response to 9/11, we just didn't support the war which they used 9/11 propaganda to justify.

No action on BSE crisis.
No action on Softwood lumber crisis.
Purposely alienating our largest trading partner. (See BSE and Softwood lumber)
Lying about conservative "hidden agenda" with no facts to back it up.
Lying about conservatives "agenda" to totally privatize health care, again with no facts.
Accusing residents of Prince George BC of burning crosses on their lawns.

unaware of these instances so I cannot rebutt them but I judge they are of the same poor quality as the rest of your points.

Lying when saying the conservatives will outlaw homosexuality.

they exaggerated. A tactic you conservatives are not above "It will lead to polygamy!!!!!!!"

Chretien accusing Alberta of being "the dark side" in 2000 election.

and in his mind it was I'll skip to the end...

Pretending that the Liberals are the victims in Adscam ?!!?

the non-guilty ones are, they pay taxes to and their chance of being elected is shrinking

Going after Brian Mulroney in court over an alleged Airbus scandal, and losing, costing us millions more dollars.

BS. The government said aomething and Mulroney sued for Libel. If your conservatives care so much about tax dollars why would they sue.

Okay, you are so far out there that you will never see any other point of view at all without namecalling and degrading the poster. You think we are the dark side, go to hell. You think that because the Conservatives have a western leader that automatically disqualifies them from any thought other than yours. Go to hell. You think that a $46billion surplus, which has not been spent but is still sitting there is okay, you think a gun registrty horribly over budget, you think secret foundation accounts are okay with untold billions hidden away are okay? Go to hell. And while you're at it take the rest of Canada with you, you all deserve each other.

You are all pathetic, racist, and bigots. The only reason you don't like the conservatives is because they are led by a western individual. This has been proven on many other posts by saying that some would vote for the conservatives if an Ontarian like Vacuous Belinda was leading them. You are pitiful.

 

[Vanni Fucci]

Re: RE: Why The Liberals Shou

And the conservatives are more in touch with the country than any of the other parties.

Also your opinion...one that an increasing number of Canadians think is ludicrous...

 

[Vanni Fucci]

Okay, you are so far out there that you will never see any other point of view at all without namecalling and degrading the poster. You think we are the dark side, go to hell. You think that because the Conservatives have a western leader that automatically disqualifies them from any thought other than yours. Go to hell. You think that a $46billion surplus, which has not been spent but is still sitting there is okay, you think a gun registrty horribly over budget, you think secret foundation accounts are okay with untold billions hidden away are okay? Go to hell. And while you're at it take the rest of Canada with you, you all deserve each other.

You are all pathetic, racist, and bigots. The only reason you don't like the conservatives is because they are led by a western individual. This has been proven on many other posts by saying that some would vote for the conservatives if an Ontarian like Vacuous Belinda was leading them. You are pitiful.

Ok bye then...

Have a nice time in Bush's Amerika...

 

[Chake99]

Okay, you are so far out there that you will never see any other point of view at all without namecalling and degrading the poster.

where did I namecall you or seek to degrade you?

You think we are the dark side, go to hell.

I never said you are and I don't believe you are.

You think that because the Conservatives have a western leader that automatically disqualifies them from any thought other than yours.

Being the ignorant person I am I was actually unaware of the location of Stephen Harper's riding, thanks for the info though.

Go to hell.

I'd prefer not to thank you very much

You think that a $46billion surplus, which has not been spent but is still sitting there is okay,

as long as it is spent I'm happy. Atleast they pulled a surplus, something that neither Ontario's conservative premieres or Mulroney couldn't do.

you think a gun registrty horribly over budget, you think secret foundation accounts are okay with untold billions hidden away are okay?

hell no. But I prefer them to the alternative. Ever heard of the lesser of umm three evils?

Go to hell. And while you're at it take the rest of Canada with you, you all deserve each other.

...

You are all pathetic, racist, and bigots.

hypocrite. Whose the name-caller now. There I name called you and actually elevated you by making your statements about me not completely fallacious.

The only reason you don't like the conservatives is because they are led by a western individual.

Totally untrue.

This has been proven on many other posts by saying that some would vote for the conservatives if an Ontarian like Vacuous Belinda

Have you ever thought that we might prefer her because of her political outlook and not her location?

was leading them. You are pitiful.

Pity us if you choose, but I would advise actual logical debate

 

[bluealberta]

Okay, you are so far out there that you will never see any other point of view at all without namecalling and degrading the poster.

where did I namecall you or seek to degrade you?

You think we are the dark side, go to hell.

I never said you are and I don't believe you are.

You think that because the Conservatives have a western leader that automatically disqualifies them from any thought other than yours.

Being the ignorant person I am I was actually unaware of the location of Stephen Harper's riding, thanks for the info though.

Go to hell.

I'd prefer not to thank you very much

You think that a $46billion surplus, which has not been spent but is still sitting there is okay,

as long as it is spent I'm happy. Atleast they pulled a surplus, something that neither Ontario's conservative premieres or Mulroney couldn't do.

you think a gun registrty horribly over budget, you think secret foundation accounts are okay with untold billions hidden away are okay?

hell no. But I prefer them to the alternative. Ever heard of the lesser of umm three evils?

Go to hell. And while you're at it take the rest of Canada with you, you all deserve each other.

...

You are all pathetic, racist, and bigots.

hypocrite. Whose the name-caller now. There I name called you and actually elevated you by making your statements about me not completely fallacious.

The only reason you don't like the conservatives is because they are led by a western individual.

Totally untrue.

This has been proven on many other posts by saying that some would vote for the conservatives if an Ontarian like Vacuous Belinda

Have you ever thought that we might prefer her because of her political outlook and not her location?

was leading them. You are pitiful.

Pity us if you choose, but I would advise actual logical debate

Tried that, done that, got insulted and degraded. Tired of it. And better Bush's America (learn how to spell, okay, or cannot you do that either), than Martin's Canada. Why not just let the Mafia run it, nothing would change.

 

[I think not]

They didnt mispell that blue, Amerika is the leftist version of America

 

[Andygal]

And the conservatives are more in touch with the country than any of the other parties.

If you believe that then you are even more out of touch then Harper.

Most Canadians lean left, at least in social issues. Canadian will not accept an extreme right-wing Conservative party.If they had a more moderate leader then they might get elected, but Harper is far too extreme. Except in Alberta, some of them will probably be crazy enough to vote for him, but most of the rest of Canada can see that he is power-mad, and dangerously extremist in his views.

 

[bluealberta]

And the conservatives are more in touch with the country than any of the other parties.

If you believe that then you are even more out of touch then Harper.

Most Canadians lean left, at least in social issues. Canadian will not accept an extreme right-wing Conservative party.If they had a more moderate leader then they might get elected, but Harper is far too extreme. Except in Alberta, some of them will probably be crazy enough to vote for him, but most of the rest of Canada can see that he is power-mad, and dangerously extremist in his views.

PLEASE! do not confuse eastern canada with all Canada. Just because Ontario "wants" something, don't make the arrogant mistake of thinking that everyone else wants this too. The Reform and Alliance were right wing, the old PC were simply Liberals in disguise, and the CPC is center-right. The biggest problem the CPC has? A western leader, simply put. Eastern Canada is so bigotted against anyone from the West either leading a party or God Forbid becoming Prime Minister they will do anything to make sure it doesn't happen, including lies, innuendoes, and outright character assassination, which is what you have included in your post. So lets just make a really simple rule: No party but left of center in Canada allowed, and no Prime Minister outside of Quebec or Ontario.......oh wait, given the past history, nine short months excepted, when Canadians didn't "want" an election either, that is the rules. What an absolute joke.

 

[Andygal]

RE: Why The Liberals Shou

Hey, I live in BC. Most people in BC don't like Harper much either.

 

[PoisonPete2]

Promise to kill the GST. Promise broken.
Promise to kill NAFTA. Promise broken.
Promise to clean up corruption. Promise broken.
Promise to end separatism threats. Promise broken.
Promise to be fiscally responsible. Promise broken.

Answer
You are absolutely right here. The Conservatives brought in the GST and NAFTA. Sold us down the river they did. We sought change under the Liberals and they did not effect the change. They failed to end the corruption that the Conservatives had excersised. The Conservatives caused massive debt in shifting money to the wealthy, and the Liberals have only reduced that debt by 7% in 12 years. The separatists may have a point in not trusting either party/

Chretien saying 9-11 was the US's fault.

Answer
You have a twist of memory here. He was basicly blaming the 'for profit philosophy' of Western economics that leaves a disenfranchised underclass in the resource countries (remember Mercantilism), rich fodder for perpetuating discontent. We give less than 0.02 % of GNP to foreign aid. The U.S. would rather spend hundreds of Billions keeping other Peoples down, than spending a few Billions helping to pull them up.

Not supporting the US in their response to 9-11.

Answer
Not supporting them in what way? By not backing the U.S. bloodbath in Iraq, a country that had nothing to do with 9/11. A country driven to poverty by 12 years of sanctions.

Using illegal and laundered taxpayers money to fund Liberal election programs.

Answer
The Conservatives were rife with Corruption but there were no whistle blowers.

Using closure too many times to mention.

Answer
Check out the Mulroney history of Closure. Know your facts.

Going after Brian Mulroney in court over an alleged Airbus scandal, and losing, costing us millions more dollars.

Answer
Again more innaccuracy. Mulroney caught wind of the investigation. Apparently ex-Prime Ministers are not supposed to be investigated. Sound like a banana republic eh!

I have no love for the Liberals but I sure as hell don't see any saving grace in these Fascists.

 

[Vanni Fucci]

Tried that, done that, got insulted and degraded. Tired of it. And better Bush's America (learn how to spell, okay, or cannot you do that either), than Martin's Canada. Why not just let the Mafia run it, nothing would change.

If I were you blue, I'd launch my e-mail client right now, and fire off a viscious nastygram to Ralph Klein in protest for the substandard curriculum as approved by the Alberta education system, if you cannot even figure out the symbolic reference in the word "Amerika"...

Never heard of the Afrika Korps?

I feel bad for you though, I really do...

 

[I think not]

Actually PoisonPete, Canada has helped with the war in Iraq, under the guise of operation Apollo.

 

[Vanni Fucci]

Operation Apollo eh?

Don't see any reference to troops in Iraq though...

The did stop some illegal shipping bound for Iraq though...does that count?

 

[I think not]

Operation Apollo eh?

Don't see any reference to troops in Iraq though...

The did stop some illegal shipping bound for Iraq though...does that count?

No that doesn't count, and I said under the guise of operation apollo. You want me to find the link?

 

[Vanni Fucci]

Operation Apollo eh?

Don't see any reference to troops in Iraq though...

The did stop some illegal shipping bound for Iraq though...does that count?

No that doesn't count, and I said under the guise of operation apollo. You want me to find the link?

Yes please... :wink:

 

[PoisonPete2]

I were running a huge yearly deficit

You are all pathetic, racist, and bigots. The only reason you don't like the conservatives is because they are led by a western individual. This has been proven on many other posts by saying that some would vote for the conservatives if an Ontarian like Vacuous Belinda was leading them. You are pitiful.

Answer
This is what really scares me about the neo-cons. Get help, Please. Oh, Joe Clark was a westener, and a good man. I would vote for him over any of the polititions out there today. You should really try to broaden your sources and attempt to understand other cultures and points of view. Score 18,000 Iraqi civilians murdered by your buddy Bush. Did you know that Mulroney's business buddy was convicted in Germany. Mulroney 'short-circuited' the investigation involving his actions. Kind of like Cretien is trying to do with Gomery.