Why the EU still doesn’t understand the 2016 referendum result

Blackleaf

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 9, 2004
49,941
1,910
113
Almost all elite Brexit opinion, in Europe as in Britain, is built on the premise that somebody on the other side of the Channel is going to do something profoundly against his own self-interest...

Europe still thinks Britain will come out worse from Brexit

Why the EU still doesn’t understand the 2016 referendum result

Christopher Caldwell
2 February 2019
The Spectator



In Paris in December, I sat with a journalist friend in a café on the Boulevard Auguste-Blanqui and listened to him explain to me why a no-deal Brexit would be a catastrophe for Britain. It had to do with an article his newspaper had published about the Mini. You might think they were typically British cars, he said, but the plant where they were made in Cowley belonged to BMW! The steering wheels were assembled in Romania! The tail lights came from Poland!

So? I asked. Brexit was about leaving the EU, not making globalisation un-happen. Who do you think wants to close the Mini plant? Britain does not want to damage its export sector any more than Romania or Poland wants to shut down a factory that provides the livelihoods of thousands.

But this explanation, so reasonable sounding to me, made no impression on my friend. Almost all elite Brexit opinion, in Europe as in Britain, is built on the premise that somebody on the other side of the Channel is going to do something profoundly against his own self-interest. These kilometres-long traffic jams at Dover that are supposed to strike fear into us. Should they happen, won’t someone do something about them? How long would they last? An afternoon? Three days?

Last weekend, before votes on the amendments were due, France’s newspaper of record Le Monde tried to rise to the occasion. It opened its editorial pages to distinguished French historians who advanced two seemingly contradictory opinions about Britain: a) it is an absolutely horrible country, and b) it is essential that France, through the European Union, continues to bind this awful nation’s fate forever to its own.

Britain — ‘the leading slave-power of the 18th century’, according to one of these historians — ‘would have had to stop fighting [the Nazis] in 1943 if not for American aid,’ according to another, and now merely aspires to be like Singapore, ‘the “nation of shopkeepers” of the 21st century.’ This vision of free trade ‘cannot disguise the wish to revive a “white” and xenophobic Empire’, said a third. It would nonetheless be a shame to lose Britain from the EU, since Le Monde has it on good authority that ‘in the pubs, they serve more espressos than “English breakfasts”’.

Throughout the past weekend, the continental media were thus raving about the heroes of Remain. Here was a feature on Speaker John Bercow, with his charming bumper-sticker (‘Brexit aux chiottes!’ as Le Parisien renders it). There was the Francophone Dominic Grieve, the Unbowed Conservative, as Le Monde styled him. ‘Whether you call him a miracle or an anomaly of British–style bipartisanship,’ the paper’s correspondent wrote, ‘this pragmatic European, this workhorse, sits on the same side of the chamber as the Europhobic dilettante Boris Johnson, whom he detests.’

Various penitent Brits were hunted down for the occasion. There is Dave, a bloke in Brussels who tells De Standaard that Brexit has driven him to such a frenzy of shame that he is about to become a Belgian.

There is the novelist Ian McEwan, who contributed to a forum sponsored by the daily Libération on ‘Europe in Peril’, warning of the threat to popular sovereignty posed by popular sovereignty: ‘The worst lie you hear every day,’ he explained, ‘is “The people have spoken.”’

Anyone can be a pessimist. The strange feature of this argument, though, is the certitude on both sides of the Channel that Britain will suffer most. ‘The biggest losers are going to be the Britons,’ said President Emmanuel Macron last month.

As a mathematical proposition that seems false. Britain’s trade deficit with the EU means its own manufacturing will suffer less than the continent’s; Europe needs London’s finance more than Britain needs Amsterdam’s fish. And yet the Brexit negotiations have done much to grind down the Brexit voter.

It is partly a structural problem: to the EU’s Europhile allies in Britain, blocking Brexit is everything. By contrast, to Britain’s Eurosceptic allies on the continent, Brexit is nothing — they have their own particular local grievances.

It is partly an intentional strategy: the chief Brexit negotiator Michel Barnier’s deputy Sabine Weyand told the Guardian there was a ‘very high risk of a crash-out, not by design, but by accident’. What does that mean? If you see an obstacle from two miles off, how can driving into it be an ‘accident’?

And it is partly a sincere misunderstanding. Europeans went into this negotiation having long ago repudiated, and in the meantime, forgotten, the traditional principles of sovereignty that won at Britain’s ballot boxes in 2016. As they see it, what’s Britain got to complain about if it loses control of Northern Ireland’s trade arrangements? This kind of sovereignty doesn’t seem real. You can’t eat it or put it in your pocket. And we’re all converging on the same idea of human rights, anyway.

No one is subject to a more tragic misunderstanding than the Irish. The Republic’s Foreign Minister, Simon Coveney, has strutted around issuing ultimatums to Ireland’s old colonial masters in the name of the Mighty EU, forgetting that Ireland’s entire position as a co-equal European nation rests on this trivialisation of old-style sovereignties, including its own. ‘Solidarity has its limits,’ the Süddeutsche Zeitung wrote last week. ‘Where these limits are is something [Taoiseach] Leo Varadkar is going to find out in the coming days.’

The possibilities for misunderstanding have always been higher than either Britons or Europeans admitted, because Brexit unleashed two constitutional crises at once. The first was a domestic battle between direct democracy and parliamentary sovereignty. The second had to do with Britain’s place in the world.

What did Britons vote for in 2016? Did they vote to leave the EU? Or did they vote to ask for permission to leave the EU? Obviously the former. If you have the right to negotiate for your sovereignty, you’re sovereign. If you can’t walk away from the negotiating table, you’re not. When the two parties sat down at the table, Britain had already exited the EU. This is an appropriate place to negotiate the best relations possible with allies and partners. But at the end of the day, all sovereignty is no-deal sovereignty. Britain has it. It is now debating whether to surrender it.


https://www.spectator.co.uk/2019/02/europe-still-thinks-britain-will-come-out-worse-from-brexit/
 
Last edited:

Tecumsehsbones

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 18, 2013
60,387
9,547
113
Washington DC
And the EU continues to stand there, holding the door open and looking pointedly at its watch, while John and Jane Bull stand in the foyer arguing. . .
 

White_Unifier

Senate Member
Feb 21, 2017
7,300
2
36
Almost all elite Brexit opinion, in Europe as in Britain, is built on the premise that somebody on the other side of the Channel is going to do something profoundly against his own self-interest...
Europe still thinks Britain will come out worse from Brexit
Why the EU still doesn’t understand the 2016 referendum result
Christopher Caldwell
2 February 2019
The Spectator

In Paris in December, I sat with a journalist friend in a café on the Boulevard Auguste-Blanqui and listened to him explain to me why a no-deal Brexit would be a catastrophe for Britain. It had to do with an article his newspaper had published about the Mini. You might think they were typically British cars, he said, but the plant where they were made in Cowley belonged to BMW! The steering wheels were assembled in Romania! The tail lights came from Poland!
So? I asked. Brexit was about leaving the EU, not making globalisation un-happen. Who do you think wants to close the Mini plant? Britain does not want to damage its export sector any more than Romania or Poland wants to shut down a factory that provides the livelihoods of thousands.
But this explanation, so reasonable sounding to me, made no impression on my friend. Almost all elite Brexit opinion, in Europe as in Britain, is built on the premise that somebody on the other side of the Channel is going to do something profoundly against his own self-interest. These kilometres-long traffic jams at Dover that are supposed to strike fear into us. Should they happen, won’t someone do something about them? How long would they last? An afternoon? Three days?
Last weekend, before votes on the amendments were due, France’s newspaper of record Le Monde tried to rise to the occasion. It opened its editorial pages to distinguished French historians who advanced two seemingly contradictory opinions about Britain: a) it is an absolutely horrible country, and b) it is essential that France, through the European Union, continues to bind this awful nation’s fate forever to its own.
Britain — ‘the leading slave-power of the 18th century’, according to one of these historians — ‘would have had to stop fighting [the Nazis] in 1943 if not for American aid,’ according to another, and now merely aspires to be like Singapore, ‘the “nation of shopkeepers” of the 21st century.’ This vision of free trade ‘cannot disguise the wish to revive a “white” and xenophobic Empire’, said a third. It would nonetheless be a shame to lose Britain from the EU, since Le Monde has it on good authority that ‘in the pubs, they serve more espressos than “English breakfasts”’.
Throughout the past weekend, the continental media were thus raving about the heroes of Remain. Here was a feature on Speaker John Bercow, with his charming bumper-sticker (‘Brexit aux chiottes!’ as Le Parisien renders it). There was the Francophone Dominic Grieve, the Unbowed Conservative, as Le Monde styled him. ‘Whether you call him a miracle or an anomaly of British–style bipartisanship,’ the paper’s correspondent wrote, ‘this pragmatic European, this workhorse, sits on the same side of the chamber as the Europhobic dilettante Boris Johnson, whom he detests.’
Various penitent Brits were hunted down for the occasion. There is Dave, a bloke in Brussels who tells De Standaard that Brexit has driven him to such a frenzy of shame that he is about to become a Belgian.
There is the novelist Ian McEwan, who contributed to a forum sponsored by the daily Libération on ‘Europe in Peril’, warning of the threat to popular sovereignty posed by popular sovereignty: ‘The worst lie you hear every day,’ he explained, ‘is “The people have spoken.”’
Anyone can be a pessimist. The strange feature of this argument, though, is the certitude on both sides of the Channel that Britain will suffer most. ‘The biggest losers are going to be the Britons,’ said President Emmanuel Macron last month.
As a mathematical proposition that seems false. Britain’s trade deficit with the EU means its own manufacturing will suffer less than the continent’s; Europe needs London’s finance more than Britain needs Amsterdam’s fish. And yet the Brexit negotiations have done much to grind down the Brexit voter.
It is partly a structural problem: to the EU’s Europhile allies in Britain, blocking Brexit is everything. By contrast, to Britain’s Eurosceptic allies on the continent, Brexit is nothing — they have their own particular local grievances.
It is partly an intentional strategy: the chief Brexit negotiator Michel Barnier’s deputy Sabine Weyand told the Guardian there was a ‘very high risk of a crash-out, not by design, but by accident’. What does that mean? If you see an obstacle from two miles off, how can driving into it be an ‘accident’?
And it is partly a sincere misunderstanding. Europeans went into this negotiation having long ago repudiated, and in the meantime, forgotten, the traditional principles of sovereignty that won at Britain’s ballot boxes in 2016. As they see it, what’s Britain got to complain about if it loses control of Northern Ireland’s trade arrangements? This kind of sovereignty doesn’t seem real. You can’t eat it or put it in your pocket. And we’re all converging on the same idea of human rights, anyway.
No one is subject to a more tragic misunderstanding than the Irish. The Republic’s Foreign Minister, Simon Coveney, has strutted around issuing ultimatums to Ireland’s old colonial masters in the name of the Mighty EU, forgetting that Ireland’s entire position as a co-equal European nation rests on this trivialisation of old-style sovereignties, including its own. ‘Solidarity has its limits,’ the Süddeutsche Zeitung wrote last week. ‘Where these limits are is something [Taoiseach] Leo Varadkar is going to find out in the coming days.’
The possibilities for misunderstanding have always been higher than either Britons or Europeans admitted, because Brexit unleashed two constitutional crises at once. The first was a domestic battle between direct democracy and parliamentary sovereignty. The second had to do with Britain’s place in the world.
What did Britons vote for in 2016? Did they vote to leave the EU? Or did they vote to ask for permission to leave the EU? Obviously the former. If you have the right to negotiate for your sovereignty, you’re sovereign. If you can’t walk away from the negotiating table, you’re not. When the two parties sat down at the table, Britain had already exited the EU. This is an appropriate place to negotiate the best relations possible with allies and partners. But at the end of the day, all sovereignty is no-deal sovereignty. Britain has it. It is now debating whether to surrender it.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/2019/02/europe-still-thinks-britain-will-come-out-worse-from-brexit/

I'm surprised the article took a dis at Singapore when Singapore's per capita income is among the highest in the world. Something worth emulating, not somethign worth disparaging.
 

Dixie Cup

Senate Member
Sep 16, 2006
6,330
4,028
113
Edmonton
The whole situation sucks. Britain voted to leave and that's what should be happening. Anyone with any ounce of thought should recognize that having regulations issued from afar from an unelected, self-gratifying, egotistical group of people who likely have not actually "worked or had a "real" job" as the average Brit or even European, do not have their best interests at heart and it DEFINITELY does give up sovereignty no matter what the clowns of the Remainders say. In fact, it seems that that's the very thing they want to (and have) given up! How extremely foolish


I didn't realize that the people who were "elected" the MEP's, actually do not have any power whatsoever in the European Union; they can make suggestions as to what needs changing but have no power to actually make those changes. How did that happen? It's only the elite in the upper echelon of the European Union that can and have decided what laws/regulations will be enacted. How absurd.
I'm surprised that its taken the Brits so long to even have the vote!


Nations should also ensure that the UN loses whatever power it has because the same system is happening. Despite what Trudeau and his ilk say that signing on to the Immigrant Migration Compact will not affect sovereignty, it does indeed affect sovereignty - through the back door. Despite the Compact being "non binding" all it takes is for a government to declare it a legal document, inscribe it as part of the legal system forcing us to accept whomever the UN figures should come here and ta da - not a damn thing we can do about it especially with the Courts becoming so political as well.


We are stupid to have anything to do with the UN and Britain is stupid to have anything to do with the EU.


JMHO
 

pgs

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 29, 2008
28,557
8,152
113
B.C.
The whole situation sucks. Britain voted to leave and that's what should be happening. Anyone with any ounce of thought should recognize that having regulations issued from afar from an unelected, self-gratifying, egotistical group of people who likely have not actually "worked or had a "real" job" as the average Brit or even European, do not have their best interests at heart and it DEFINITELY does give up sovereignty no matter what the clowns of the Remainders say. In fact, it seems that that's the very thing they want to (and have) given up! How extremely foolish


I didn't realize that the people who were "elected" the MEP's, actually do not have any power whatsoever in the European Union; they can make suggestions as to what needs changing but have no power to actually make those changes. How did that happen? It's only the elite in the upper echelon of the European Union that can and have decided what laws/regulations will be enacted. How absurd.
I'm surprised that its taken the Brits so long to even have the vote!


Nations should also ensure that the UN loses whatever power it has because the same system is happening. Despite what Trudeau and his ilk say that signing on to the Immigrant Migration Compact will not affect sovereignty, it does indeed affect sovereignty - through the back door. Despite the Compact being "non binding" all it takes is for a government to declare it a legal document, inscribe it as part of the legal system forcing us to accept whomever the UN figures should come here and ta da - not a damn thing we can do about it especially with the Courts becoming so political as well.


We are stupid to have anything to do with the UN and Britain is stupid to have anything to do with the EU.


JMHO
I happen to agree with your opinion .