Why do we need to pray?

[Dexter Sinister]

Now you're falling into the protestant heresy of literally interpreting passages from Scripture

Okay, so how can we tell which passages are to be taken literally and which are to be interpreted metaphorically? There are certainly no internal clues in the text. You've freely cited scripture in support of your views in many threads, so quite clearly it's not ALL metaphorical. I think you're just giving yourself an out so you can explain away things that'd be pretty unpleasant (at best) if taken literally.

 

[hermanntrude]

if they seem like BS then they're a metaphor. if they seem remotely plausible they're literal. except the ressurection.... that's literal

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Remember that God always answers each one of our prayers. It's just that the answer is not always what we might be looking for.

Sure. And the answer's always one of Yes, No, or Wait, in some form. Can't lose. No matter what happens, you can argue that the prayer was answered.

 

[karrie]

The prayee makes no such claim, and he merely places his trust on God's promise to grant his prayer.


Your coming to His defence again where it is not needed, and I cannot break my trust in God in this way. In fact God's Word is you can expect all the way.

Actually, I'm not coming to His defense, sorry, I was just discussing the posts. It's the kind of thing I love discussing the theories behind, the way people justify and rationalize. Personally, I think prayer is more about bringing about change for yourself, than about getting God to do anything for you. Like you said, if God answered prayers directly, then there would be people sitting around wondering what everyone else is griping about. I think it's just a way to tap into that extra strength, that force that runs through everything, to help strangthen our own ability for change. And, I have yet to hear any word from God that says we can expect anything at all..... all I've ever heard is human interpretations on the subject.

 

[L Gilbert]

Yes, of course, but prayer isn't about presenting a shopping list to God. Prayer is, in essence, a relationship, a joining if you will. Prayer is our sustenance and link to our Creator.

My prayer wasn't a shopping list, I didn't ask for anything. I didn't want anything. I didn't demand anything. It wasn't even a "Hello, how are ya?" It was a bet between entities (so to speak). I know I'll win the bet, but I also know I won't see a penny out of the bet..

 

[L Gilbert]

Sure. And the answer's always one of Yes, No, or Wait, in some form. Can't lose. No matter what happens, you can argue that the prayer was answered.

Of course. That's one more of those political answers like the "mysterious ways", or "the proof is in the bible". Hilarious.

 

[L Gilbert]

Actually, I'm not coming to His defense, sorry, I was just discussing the posts. It's the kind of thing I love discussing the theories behind, the way people justify and rationalize. Personally, I think prayer is more about bringing about change for yourself, than about getting God to do anything for you. Like you said, if God answered prayers directly, then there would be people sitting around wondering what everyone else is griping about. I think it's just a way to tap into that extra strength, that force that runs through everything, to help strangthen our own ability for change. And, I have yet to hear any word from God that says we can expect anything at all..... all I've ever heard is human interpretations on the subject.

Theory? There's no theory behind any of these faiths. There's barely any hypotheses behind them.

 

[hermanntrude]

Gilbert have you ever analysed your motivations for such strong atheist feelings? I know you approach it in an apprently rational manner but it seems to me there's an emotional motivator, or you wouldnt have quite such a strong leaning to atheism.

 

[karrie]

Theory? There's no theory behind any of these faiths. There's barely any hypotheses behind them.

Sure there's theory behind it all. How people sense a spiritual force, how they interpret and try to voice that perception. It's a current that runs through every society that's ever walked the planet. The creation of religions to try to explain something we simply can't, is fascinating to me, no matter how much you try to explain it away Gilbert. You have your own beliefs, based on physics and biology, to try to explain all of life. And I get that it rings true to you... good for you. But, it doesn't ring true to everyone.

 

[L Gilbert]

Gilbert have you ever analysed your motivations for such strong atheist feelings? I know you approach it in an apprently rational manner but it seems to me there's an emotional motivator, or you wouldnt have quite such a strong leaning to atheism.

Of course I've explored it. I've come to the conclusion that, like christians' god, I display human characteristics, am therefore of human invention, and do these bits of humorous posting for the sake of humor and to get people to think about what they believe. Everything I do is perfectly human and humor is one of the everything. It's fun.
Um, BTW, I don't consider atheism to be anything but atheism. It simply is. Same with atheists: they are either atheists or they aren't; no strong ones or weak ones. One cannot say, "there is no god, but maybe there is." lol

rofl I don't sense any "spiritual force", Karrie. That's the whole idea behind being an atheist. Force is defined as "that which changes the state of rest or motion in matter, measured by the rate of change of momentum" - CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics. The formula for it is F=ma where "F" is force, "m" is mass, and "a" is acceleration. As "spirit" has no mass, "spiritual force" cannot exist, and it logically follows that if it cannot exist, it cannot have any acceleration. So 0 × 0 = 0

 

[hermanntrude]

fair enough. your fervent atheism reminded me of my mother, who is atheist because she believes that God would have to be a total bastard to do what he did to her and her family. It never occurred to me you were playing devil's advocate

 

[canadarocks]

Why do we need to pray? Same reason you call your parents now and again. You call your parents (or you should) to communicate, to show respect and gratitude, to ask questions, to tell them you love them, to ask for favours, and do things they ask you, to talk and to listen. To have and maintain a relationship.

 

[sanctus]

Since there must have been a billion people who have recited the Lord's
prayer since it was taught, I wonder if someone was ever granted to be
never "lead into temptation"(tested). I suppose once again we can
assume a billion people were giving instructions, or not humble enough,
or were insulting.

It follows then if this is true, is that a prime example of a "snake of rejection when a fish was asked for".?

AndyF

The issue with many people is the context of their prayers. Prayer as a vehicle for conversation with God must also involve shutting up and listening for that "still, small voice". Further, prayers seeking things and only when seeking things are vain prayers indeed. Far better to focus on efforts to remember the needs of others around you. The truth is, God indeed knows our hearts and minds, though we often do not. We confuse ourselves with self-seeking means of gaining attention to our petitions.

 

[sanctus]

Sure. And the answer's always one of Yes, No, or Wait, in some form. Can't lose. No matter what happens, you can argue that the prayer was answered.

True, and so what's wrong with that?

 

[sanctus]

Theory? There's no theory behind any of these faiths. There's barely any hypotheses behind them.

No, more accurate for you to say that there is no theory you would accept as valid. Of course there are theories behind faith, and God, but none that can be scientifically examined. One might suggest that your "faith" in science alone is the same in the faith of "God alone". Real balance, I think, is a merging of the two.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

True, and so what's wrong with that?

Confirmation bias is what's wrong with it. You can never really tell whether a prayer was answered or not under those rules, they cover all possibilites with no way to determine what the answer, if any, actually was. You can make up whatever you want to explain whatever happens.

 

[sanctus]

Confirmation bias is what's wrong with it. You can never really tell whether a prayer was answered or not under those rules, they cover all possibilites with no way to determine what the answer, if any, actually was. You can make up whatever you want to explain whatever happens.

Quite true I suppose. It's where that word you'll expect me to write now comes in

 

[hermanntrude]

the f word?

 

[sanctus]

the f word?

heh heh heh, yes the dreaded "F" word:-

 

[hermanntrude]

there's a tv show in that "faith is a four letter word"