Why are American lives worth more than Iraqi's
- Thread starter GuyIncognito
- Start date
OK, I see it now. The U.S. and Britian sold Iraq the WMDs? 8O I didn't know that. And after Saddam gased a whole bunch of Kurds, the U.S. continued to supply Iraq with WMDs. And I see that all of the WMDs were either destroyed by the UN weapons inspector or used in the Gulf War 1993. But if the UN weapons inspector destroyed 90% to 95% of Saddam's WMDs in 1993, why did George Bush Sr. invade Iraq?
Re: RE: Why are American live
Of course it's about oil. What else would it be about? The love of a woman?
It's all about the U.S. maintaining control over the Persian gulf and the oil reserves. Why did you think the U.S. played both ends against the middle in the Iraq/Iran war? Why do you suppose the whole Iran Contra affair broke?
The U.S. wanted to prolong the Iraq/Iran war for as long as possible in order to maintain instability in the region. They were providing a mixture of genuine and phoney intelligence to both Iraq and Iran. They were secretly supplying weapons to Iran while maintaining a position of neutrality. When the news broke of America's double-dealings, America had to make a strong showing of support for Iraq, in order not to risk alienating other countries in the Gulf that were supporting Iraq.
It was all just a big game to the United States. They didn't care how many people died. And they didn't care what means the two countries used in beating each other up. That's why the U.S. declined to support any UN resolution that would have taken action against Iraq for using chemical weapons. The U.S. supplied Iraq with the stuff.
It's all about oil. It's always been about oil.
JonB2004 said:
Of course it's about oil. What else would it be about? The love of a woman?
It's all about the U.S. maintaining control over the Persian gulf and the oil reserves. Why did you think the U.S. played both ends against the middle in the Iraq/Iran war? Why do you suppose the whole Iran Contra affair broke?
The U.S. wanted to prolong the Iraq/Iran war for as long as possible in order to maintain instability in the region. They were providing a mixture of genuine and phoney intelligence to both Iraq and Iran. They were secretly supplying weapons to Iran while maintaining a position of neutrality. When the news broke of America's double-dealings, America had to make a strong showing of support for Iraq, in order not to risk alienating other countries in the Gulf that were supporting Iraq.
It was all just a big game to the United States. They didn't care how many people died. And they didn't care what means the two countries used in beating each other up. That's why the U.S. declined to support any UN resolution that would have taken action against Iraq for using chemical weapons. The U.S. supplied Iraq with the stuff.
It's all about oil. It's always been about oil.
#juan said:
I just love leftist websites, I love them because they are consistent, constantly neglecting information with an intent to permeate dis-information. How about we use a somewhat neutral source, hmmm?
You guys like wikipedia right?
In the early 1970's, Saddam Hussein ordered the creation of a clandestine nuclear weapons program.[2] Iraq’s Weapons of Mass Destruction programs were assisted by a wide variety of firms and governments in the 1970s and 1980s. [3][4][5][6] As part of Project 922, German firms such as Karl Kobe helped build Iraqi Chemical weapons facilities such as laboratories, bunkers, an administrative building, and first production buildings in the early 1980s under the cover of a pesticide plant.[citation needed] Other German firms sent 1,027 tons of precursors of Mustard gas, Sarin, Tabun, and tear gasses in all. This work allowed Iraq to produce 150 tons of mustard agent and 60 tons of Tabun in 1983 and 1984 respectively, continuing throughout the decade. Five other German firms supplied equipment to manfacture botulin toxin and mycotoxin for germ warfare. In 1988, German engineers presented centrifuge data that assisted Iraq expand its nuclear weapons program. Laboratory equipment and other information was provided, involving many German engineers. All told, 52% of Iraq's international chemical weapon equipment was of German origin. The State Establishment for Pesticide Production (SEPP) ordered culture media and incubators from Germany's Water Engineering Trading.[7]
France built Iraq’s Nuclear Osirak reactor in the late 1970s, but it was destroyed by Israeli jets in 1981 because of concerns that Iraq was getting close to building nuclear weapons. Later, a French company built a turnkey factory which helped make nuclear fuel. France also provided glass-lined reactors, tanks, vessels, and columns used for the production of chemical weapons. Strains of dual use biological material also helped advance Iraq’s biological warfare program. Around 21% of Iraq’s international chemical weapon equipment was French.
Italy gave Iraq plutonium extraction facilities that advanced Iraq’s nuclear weapon program. 75,000 shells and rockets designed for chemical weapon use also came from Italy. Between 1979 and 1982 Italy gave depleted, natural, and low-enriched uranium. Swiss companies aided in Iraq’s nuclear weapons development in the form of specialized presses, milling machines, grinding machines, electrical discharge machines, and equipment for processing uranium to nuclear weapon grade.[citation needed] Brazil secretly aided the Iraqi nuclear weapon program by supplying natural uranium dioxide between 1981 and 1982 without notifying the IAEA. About 100 tons of Mustard gas also came from Brazil.
The United States exported $500 million of dual use exports to Iraq that were approved by the Commerce department.} Among them were advanced computers, some of which were used in Iraq’s nuclear program, and also bioweapons. Through the non-profit American Type Culture Collection and the Centers for Disease Control, the U.S. government under Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush sold or sent biological samples to Iraq under Saddam Hussein up until 1989. These materials included anthrax, West Nile virus and botulism, as well as Brucella melitensis, which damages major organs, and Clostridium perfringens, which causes gas gangrene. Some of these materials were used for Iraq's biological weapons research program, while others were used for vaccine development.[8]
Many other countries contributed as well; since Iraq's nuclear program in the early 1980s was officially viewed internationally as for power production, not weapons, there were no UN prohibitions against it. The UK sent advanced tools and computers to Iraq, some of which were used in Iraq’s nuclear program.[citation needed] An Austrian company gave Iraq calutrons for enriching uranium. The nation also provided heat exchangers, tanks, condensers, and columns for the Iraqi chemical weapons infrastructure, 16% of the international sales.[citation needed] Singapore gave 4,515 tons of precursors for VX, sarin, tabun, and mustard gasses to Iraq. The Dutch gave 4,261 tons of precursors for sarin, tabun, mustard, and tear gasses to Iraq. Egypt gave 2,400 tons of tabun and sarin precursors to Iraq and 28,500 tons of weapons designed for carrying chemical munitions.[citation needed] India gave 2,343 tons of precursors to VX, tabun, Sarin, and mustard gasses. Luxembourg gave Iraq 650 tons of mustard gas precursors. Spain gave Iraq 57,500 munitions designed for carrying chemical weapons. In addition, they provided reactors, condensers, columns and tanks for Iraq’s chemical warfare program, 4.4% of the international sales. China provided 45,000 munitions designed for chemical warfare. Portugal provided yellowcake between 1980 and 1982. Niger provided yellowcake in 1981.[9]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_a...ction#Program_development_1970.27s_-_1980.27s
RE: Why are American live
What is up with you always going on about the left-wing media always corrupting information. You do know that Wikipedia is editable by anybody? It means some right-wing guy or some left-wing woman could come in there and edit it to their liking.
I think not said:
What is up with you always going on about the left-wing media always corrupting information. You do know that Wikipedia is editable by anybody? It means some right-wing guy or some left-wing woman could come in there and edit it to their liking.
Simpleton said:
Sure the "truth" hurts, that shouldn't stop anyone from seeking it. I commented on your handle because you take a narrow view of the situation. Anything that happens in the world is a result of geopolitics, not isolated incidents.
I can go on with a laundry list of interventions the US was involved in, some I condone and some I find embarassing.
Facts (the truth) can never be disputed, however you have to look at situations by tsepping further away, and try to understand what caused the US to intervene say in Vietnam? Korea? Little dictatorships all over the world.
There is always an obverse and reverse view to everything, everything is not to be viewed from a "simpletons" point. The world isn't black and white, it is very complex.
I think not said:
Read this
http://www.zmag.org/zmag/articles/ShalomIranIraq.html
And tell me what you think. There's even a complete bibliography at the bottom. I found it yesterday. Don't know how entirely accurate it is... Not really concerned. If it jives with the bits and pieces that I remember, I give it a bit of credibility. If it contradicts what I remember, than I toss it. This contains both.
That's a hell of read Simpleton, interesting I would say, I will read it in depth when I get a chance over the weekend, I did browse through it, my initial feeling is that that author is jumping to conclusions connecting irrelevant facts, for example:
He does this a couple of times, however I will refrain from a more in depth comment when I read it thoroughly. And thanks for the link, I have never seen that on zmag.
He does this a couple of times, however I will refrain from a more in depth comment when I read it thoroughly. And thanks for the link, I have never seen that on zmag.
I live in the middle east, quite close to the action in iraq...
from many differnt sources, (newspaper interviews, iraqi friends, arab friends and forums such as this one) i have gethered that in general, of all the people i have spoken to and read about, a suprisingly huge number of them (about 80-85%) feel they (Iraqis) are worse off after the US invasion...
the saddam trials are deemed hilarious in all types of arab media and social circles that i have access to (Iraqis especially) because the judge was assigned by a lot of American arm-twisting and pressure... however since saddam is refusing to play the role of 'guilty convict' and doesnt go on the defensive (much to the exasperation of the judge and the pleasure of my sources) the whole trial is generally vilified and detested by the arabs in iraq and here... i dont know how the american/western media moguls are twsting and 'amercanising' the statistics you hear there and what information blanks have been left unfilled by them (basically theyve had a penchant for being unreliable on politically sensitive issues like iraq and israel) but what i have told you is the media and public opinion in the middle east. since im not arab and i have neither benefited not lost anything from the war, im trying to keep an open mind about the issue... maybe itll turn out better or worse than saddam's time when its over...
but i totally agree with #juan that the war was started on an immense foundation of lies, deceit and meddling, with possibly a very strong monetary incentive... though the incentive was almost certainly as political as it was economic... votes are important to everyone eh?
so on that basis im totally against the war... because if your cause is just and true, you dont need lies to gather support for it.
so apart from what your media has shown you there (an interview with like 3 iraqis who for all we know were paid in dollars (its a big thing here) to say what they were told... or even just those 3 iraqis who actually did lose families for some reason or another)... im just telling you about what almost all the people feel... even the other 15-20% who arent strongly opposed to the invasion, are definitely not strongly FOR it... they remain unsure.
The Saddam trial itself has not yet found Saddam directly guilty of anything significant yet... despite the fact that like 2-3 of his lawyers have been assasinated and there is a lot of behind-the-scenes political pressure on all parties (you westerners are probably unaware of the fact that the last Judge for the trials, stepped down because he was being pressurised by American officials to not give saddam a fair trial and to declare him guilty on various counts.... when he stepped down, this new judge was put in place.. and obviously he has faced the same issue but appears to be cooperating with the americans neh?) so if the current trend continues and even THIS jimmied-up trial fails to actually find saddam guilty of anything more than an insignificant fraction of all the deaths which hes been accused of... well you really cant doubt the fact that life in iraq was probably better in his time than now.
and 'I think not'....
we're all still waiting for information on the WMD's (all three, nuclear, chemical and biological). Show us where the WMD's have gone and a list of the ones you found. Go ahead, enlighten and shut me up. ^_^
~Om3n
from many differnt sources, (newspaper interviews, iraqi friends, arab friends and forums such as this one) i have gethered that in general, of all the people i have spoken to and read about, a suprisingly huge number of them (about 80-85%) feel they (Iraqis) are worse off after the US invasion...
the saddam trials are deemed hilarious in all types of arab media and social circles that i have access to (Iraqis especially) because the judge was assigned by a lot of American arm-twisting and pressure... however since saddam is refusing to play the role of 'guilty convict' and doesnt go on the defensive (much to the exasperation of the judge and the pleasure of my sources) the whole trial is generally vilified and detested by the arabs in iraq and here... i dont know how the american/western media moguls are twsting and 'amercanising' the statistics you hear there and what information blanks have been left unfilled by them (basically theyve had a penchant for being unreliable on politically sensitive issues like iraq and israel) but what i have told you is the media and public opinion in the middle east. since im not arab and i have neither benefited not lost anything from the war, im trying to keep an open mind about the issue... maybe itll turn out better or worse than saddam's time when its over...
but i totally agree with #juan that the war was started on an immense foundation of lies, deceit and meddling, with possibly a very strong monetary incentive... though the incentive was almost certainly as political as it was economic... votes are important to everyone eh?
so on that basis im totally against the war... because if your cause is just and true, you dont need lies to gather support for it.
so apart from what your media has shown you there (an interview with like 3 iraqis who for all we know were paid in dollars (its a big thing here) to say what they were told... or even just those 3 iraqis who actually did lose families for some reason or another)... im just telling you about what almost all the people feel... even the other 15-20% who arent strongly opposed to the invasion, are definitely not strongly FOR it... they remain unsure.
The Saddam trial itself has not yet found Saddam directly guilty of anything significant yet... despite the fact that like 2-3 of his lawyers have been assasinated and there is a lot of behind-the-scenes political pressure on all parties (you westerners are probably unaware of the fact that the last Judge for the trials, stepped down because he was being pressurised by American officials to not give saddam a fair trial and to declare him guilty on various counts.... when he stepped down, this new judge was put in place.. and obviously he has faced the same issue but appears to be cooperating with the americans neh?) so if the current trend continues and even THIS jimmied-up trial fails to actually find saddam guilty of anything more than an insignificant fraction of all the deaths which hes been accused of... well you really cant doubt the fact that life in iraq was probably better in his time than now.
and 'I think not'....
I think not said:
we're all still waiting for information on the WMD's (all three, nuclear, chemical and biological). Show us where the WMD's have gone and a list of the ones you found. Go ahead, enlighten and shut me up. ^_^
~Om3n
Das Om3n said:
Okie Dokie, you already have the answer, none have ever been found, whether or not they were lies or misinformation, you can determine that on your own, but you have your answer. So now you can shut up and tell me where the oil has gone and where the 100,000 dead figure comes from.
RE: Why are American live
I thought it was the Ba'ath party Das 0m3n
but I think there is little doubt that both america and the UK sold wepons to iraq, purely out of ignorance really, obviously not looking at the situation too deeply (which does seem to be a common theme) or the resulting actions, like Stalin with Hitler they considered Saddam the better of 2 evils, perhaps he was, perhaps he wasnt, history will judge that.
But really comments like "american lives are worth more than iraqi's" is just not on, I watche a cowboy and indian movie the other day, and found myself disgusted by the similarity in attitudes the US Army had in it to the nazi's...once again, centuries of that type of believe in superiority brought about world war 2.....and perhaps the Iraq and Afghan wars.
It just seems to me that Confusious and Aristotle were right, Bad deeds generally show an ignorance and lack of forsight into the resulting problems, but yet with this ignorance comes a higher level of underlying awareness of what they are doing (the US and UK) than they would have if they just left em alone.....figure that one out
I thought it was the Ba'ath party Das 0m3n
but I think there is little doubt that both america and the UK sold wepons to iraq, purely out of ignorance really, obviously not looking at the situation too deeply (which does seem to be a common theme) or the resulting actions, like Stalin with Hitler they considered Saddam the better of 2 evils, perhaps he was, perhaps he wasnt, history will judge that.
But really comments like "american lives are worth more than iraqi's" is just not on, I watche a cowboy and indian movie the other day, and found myself disgusted by the similarity in attitudes the US Army had in it to the nazi's...once again, centuries of that type of believe in superiority brought about world war 2.....and perhaps the Iraq and Afghan wars.
It just seems to me that Confusious and Aristotle were right, Bad deeds generally show an ignorance and lack of forsight into the resulting problems, but yet with this ignorance comes a higher level of underlying awareness of what they are doing (the US and UK) than they would have if they just left em alone.....figure that one out