Who Pays Taxes In Canada ??
- Thread starter jimmoyer
- Start date
I don't see why paying less taxes means people will be less responsible politically Jim. They are poorer and those people already have less political influence, but they still get to vote.
I also think part of the reason people see the tax situation as particularly favoring the rich in America may have something to do with the services the poor get for their taxes. Medical is the big one in my mind. The lower tax payers don't necessarily get it here for those tax dollars like they do in Canada. Paid maternity leave is another.
I also think part of the reason people see the tax situation as particularly favoring the rich in America may have something to do with the services the poor get for their taxes. Medical is the big one in my mind. The lower tax payers don't necessarily get it here for those tax dollars like they do in Canada. Paid maternity leave is another.
Well, the medical benefits comparison between
both countries is best left for the many other threads
that dealt with that subject.
So let's just look at RESPONSIBILITY.
Will people who bare no burden to pay actually
have a responsible attitude ?
Let's look at BURDEN.
Although the bottom 50 percent of society who
pay less than 5 percent of all income tax collected
fell many BURDENS beyond just taxes, do we want
a society that increasingly uses a sliding scale of
punishment for doing better in life ?
We all aspire to do better.
And will we grouch over the goverment taking more
than a 1/3 of what we make ?
Will we grouch even more as we do better, seeing
government nobly take 1/2 of what we make ?
Is it not human behavior to avoid these taxes in all
strata of society ?
Will money and capital move away to a less punishing
locale ?
All the ideological bitterness between liberals and
conservatives never answer those questions quite
well.
both countries is best left for the many other threads
that dealt with that subject.
So let's just look at RESPONSIBILITY.
Will people who bare no burden to pay actually
have a responsible attitude ?
Let's look at BURDEN.
Although the bottom 50 percent of society who
pay less than 5 percent of all income tax collected
fell many BURDENS beyond just taxes, do we want
a society that increasingly uses a sliding scale of
punishment for doing better in life ?
We all aspire to do better.
And will we grouch over the goverment taking more
than a 1/3 of what we make ?
Will we grouch even more as we do better, seeing
government nobly take 1/2 of what we make ?
Is it not human behavior to avoid these taxes in all
strata of society ?
Will money and capital move away to a less punishing
locale ?
All the ideological bitterness between liberals and
conservatives never answer those questions quite
well.
Paying is not the only thing that makes people be responsible. The poor have to live with government decisions the same as the wealthy. If anything, they are more vulnerable to poor governmental decisions, so that would seem to be a good motivator to me.
Punished for doing well?.... I just think that's a bad way to look at it. If you wanted to pay less taxes, you could choose to be poor and see how you like it. I think we're pretty lucky to be able to contribute a fair amount to our country (or countries) and I think a sliding scale is fair.
Punished for doing well?.... I just think that's a bad way to look at it. If you wanted to pay less taxes, you could choose to be poor and see how you like it. I think we're pretty lucky to be able to contribute a fair amount to our country (or countries) and I think a sliding scale is fair.
CANADA:
from Statistics Canada
http://www.canadiancontent.net/en/jd/go?Url=http://www.taxtips.ca/statistics.htm#TaxPie
Income group % of federal personalincome taxes paid
.........................................1990..........2002
50% with lowest incomes..............6.7%.........4.4%
40% with intermediate incomes.....47.3%........43.0%
10% with highest incomes............46.0%........52.6%
UNITED STATES
For Tax Year 2003
Percent Ranked by Adusted Gross Income -------column 1
AGI Threshold on Percentiles ---------------------column 2
Percent of all Federal Income Tax recieved------column 3
Top 1% ..........$295,495...............34.27
Top 5%...........$130,080...............54.36
Top 10%..........$94,891................65.84
Top 25%..........$57,343................83.88
Top 50%..........$29,019................96.54
Bottom 50%...... $29,019............... 3.46
---------------------------------------------------------
Tracy, I think both nations are doing what you're saying.
In fact your point of view is accepted policy,
despite the headlines on tax cuts or changes in
tax code, you can see that none of the hoopla in
the headlines seriously changes the above statistics.
Add in any other kind of tax, the rich are still
paying more.
It never seems that way because although the
bottom 50 percent contributes less than 5 percent
of all tax collections, the burden they feel is very
hard felt.
Should the bottom 50 percent pay zero ?
Perhaps feeling some burden makes you more
interested in how that money is spent.
Last edit to change AMERICA to UNITED STATES.
from Statistics Canada
http://www.canadiancontent.net/en/jd/go?Url=http://www.taxtips.ca/statistics.htm#TaxPie
Income group % of federal personalincome taxes paid
.........................................1990..........2002
50% with lowest incomes..............6.7%.........4.4%
40% with intermediate incomes.....47.3%........43.0%
10% with highest incomes............46.0%........52.6%
UNITED STATES
For Tax Year 2003
Percent Ranked by Adusted Gross Income -------column 1
AGI Threshold on Percentiles ---------------------column 2
Percent of all Federal Income Tax recieved------column 3
Top 1% ..........$295,495...............34.27
Top 5%...........$130,080...............54.36
Top 10%..........$94,891................65.84
Top 25%..........$57,343................83.88
Top 50%..........$29,019................96.54
Bottom 50%...... $29,019............... 3.46
---------------------------------------------------------
Tracy, I think both nations are doing what you're saying.
In fact your point of view is accepted policy,
despite the headlines on tax cuts or changes in
tax code, you can see that none of the hoopla in
the headlines seriously changes the above statistics.
Add in any other kind of tax, the rich are still
paying more.
It never seems that way because although the
bottom 50 percent contributes less than 5 percent
of all tax collections, the burden they feel is very
hard felt.
Should the bottom 50 percent pay zero ?
Perhaps feeling some burden makes you more
interested in how that money is spent.
Last edit to change AMERICA to UNITED STATES.
Kreskin, that's a very good question.
I do not know what percent of ALL INCOME reported
does the top 50 percent make.
That's certainly one part of the missing picture here.
And so here it is :
http://www.canadiancontent.net/forums/posting.php?mode=editpost&p=214207
Statistics Canada link
c. Share of total income of the 3 groups
Income group % of total income
..........................................1990......... 2002
50% with lowest incomes .............19.0%....... 16.9%
40% with intermediate incomes...... 49.3%.......47.4%
10% with highest incomes............. 31.7%...... 35.7%
All Canadian taxfilers................ 100.0%..... 100.0%
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
b. Effective federal personal income tax rates paid by the 3 groups Income group Federal tax as % of income
................................................1990..... 2002
50% with lowest incomes.................. 4.30%..... 2.89%
40% with intermediate incomes..........11.75%....10.14%
10% with highest incomes................ 17.79%....16.47%
All Canadian taxfilers..................... 12.25%... 11.18%
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
CANADA
Income group % of federal personalincome taxes paid
.........................................1990..........2002
50% with lowest incomes..............6.7%.........4.4%
40% with intermediate incomes.....47.3%........43.0%
10% with highest incomes............46.0%........52.6%
UNITED STATES
For Tax Year 2003
Percent Ranked by Adusted Gross Income -------column 1
AGI Threshold on Percentiles ---------------------column 2
Percent of all Federal Income Tax recieved------column 3
Top 1% ..........$295,495...............34.27
Top 5%...........$130,080...............54.36
Top 10%..........$94,891................65.84
Top 25%..........$57,343................83.88
Top 50%..........$29,019................96.54
Bottom 50%...... $29,019............... 3.46
I do not know what percent of ALL INCOME reported
does the top 50 percent make.
That's certainly one part of the missing picture here.
And so here it is :
http://www.canadiancontent.net/forums/posting.php?mode=editpost&p=214207
Statistics Canada link
c. Share of total income of the 3 groups
Income group % of total income
..........................................1990......... 2002
50% with lowest incomes .............19.0%....... 16.9%
40% with intermediate incomes...... 49.3%.......47.4%
10% with highest incomes............. 31.7%...... 35.7%
All Canadian taxfilers................ 100.0%..... 100.0%
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
b. Effective federal personal income tax rates paid by the 3 groups Income group Federal tax as % of income
................................................1990..... 2002
50% with lowest incomes.................. 4.30%..... 2.89%
40% with intermediate incomes..........11.75%....10.14%
10% with highest incomes................ 17.79%....16.47%
All Canadian taxfilers..................... 12.25%... 11.18%
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
CANADA
Income group % of federal personalincome taxes paid
.........................................1990..........2002
50% with lowest incomes..............6.7%.........4.4%
40% with intermediate incomes.....47.3%........43.0%
10% with highest incomes............46.0%........52.6%
UNITED STATES
For Tax Year 2003
Percent Ranked by Adusted Gross Income -------column 1
AGI Threshold on Percentiles ---------------------column 2
Percent of all Federal Income Tax recieved------column 3
Top 1% ..........$295,495...............34.27
Top 5%...........$130,080...............54.36
Top 10%..........$94,891................65.84
Top 25%..........$57,343................83.88
Top 50%..........$29,019................96.54
Bottom 50%...... $29,019............... 3.46
I also wonder how much unreported income is out there... That might change those figures a bit eh?
I also wonder how much unreported income is out there... That might change those figures a bit eh?
---------------------Tracy------------------------------------
Unreported income is subject to much political
prejudice.
You can look at unreported income in several ways:
1. The higher the tax is the more people try to
hide income.
2. The higher the burden of the tax in relation to
income the more people of all classes try to hide it.
3. Despite any unproven urban legend about scofflaws
of all classes who feel the tax burden, you'll see
that the bottom 50 percent still pay less than 5 percent
of all income tax collected.
You'll also see in those numbers what percentage
of that tax is to their income:
The bottom 50 percent owns 16 percent of all
income reported but pays 4.4 percent of all taxes
collected.
Bottom 50.....16% of all income....4.4% of all tax collected
Top.....10.....35% of all income....52.6% of all tax collected
Again, despite all the hoopla of the headlines
of huge tax cuts for the rich, despite all the glaring
headlines of scofflaws, it seems to hardly affect
these years of data showed above.
Also it does show how rich the rich are and why any tax
cut inevitably favors the rich because the bottom 50 percent
pay so little of it.
Yet every tax cut barely affects the yearly trends, the yearly
aggregate data.
Wonder why ?
---------------------Tracy------------------------------------
Unreported income is subject to much political
prejudice.
You can look at unreported income in several ways:
1. The higher the tax is the more people try to
hide income.
2. The higher the burden of the tax in relation to
income the more people of all classes try to hide it.
3. Despite any unproven urban legend about scofflaws
of all classes who feel the tax burden, you'll see
that the bottom 50 percent still pay less than 5 percent
of all income tax collected.
You'll also see in those numbers what percentage
of that tax is to their income:
The bottom 50 percent owns 16 percent of all
income reported but pays 4.4 percent of all taxes
collected.
Bottom 50.....16% of all income....4.4% of all tax collected
Top.....10.....35% of all income....52.6% of all tax collected
Again, despite all the hoopla of the headlines
of huge tax cuts for the rich, despite all the glaring
headlines of scofflaws, it seems to hardly affect
these years of data showed above.
Also it does show how rich the rich are and why any tax
cut inevitably favors the rich because the bottom 50 percent
pay so little of it.
Yet every tax cut barely affects the yearly trends, the yearly
aggregate data.
Wonder why ?
RE: Who Pays Taxes In Can
I think the punchline was that someone quoted Hedy Fry!
How about we tax each Canadian based on the services they are provided? Everyone is entitled to a free education, free health care, police, defence, etc. How about we figure out a value based on all those services everyone benefits from and distribute a bill to every adult Canadian?
So Canada's $200 billion budget would cost each adult $8888.
I think the punchline was that someone quoted Hedy Fry!
How about we tax each Canadian based on the services they are provided? Everyone is entitled to a free education, free health care, police, defence, etc. How about we figure out a value based on all those services everyone benefits from and distribute a bill to every adult Canadian?
So Canada's $200 billion budget would cost each adult $8888.
Jim, I would assume it's because the bottom 50% have to spend a much larger percentage of their income on basic living expenses, so they couldn't contribute more in taxes.
Re: RE: Who Pays Taxes In Canada ??
Not to mention that the numbers we are talking about are in gorss dollars, not percentages. What this really shows is that the top 50% make significantly more money than those on the bottom 50%.
If you look at the stats Jim posted on the first page, dollar earned for dollar taxed is relatively the same. There is maybe a ten percent difference, but that is to be expected in a progressive tax system like ours.
And even then, it isn't as if it is the difference in percentage of income taxed that is causing the disperity in gross dollars between the top and bottom. It is just a factor of the top half making significanly more (gross dollars) than the bottom half.
tracy said:
Not to mention that the numbers we are talking about are in gorss dollars, not percentages. What this really shows is that the top 50% make significantly more money than those on the bottom 50%.
If you look at the stats Jim posted on the first page, dollar earned for dollar taxed is relatively the same. There is maybe a ten percent difference, but that is to be expected in a progressive tax system like ours.
And even then, it isn't as if it is the difference in percentage of income taxed that is causing the disperity in gross dollars between the top and bottom. It is just a factor of the top half making significanly more (gross dollars) than the bottom half.
Keep analyzing...
Bottom 50...16% of all income reported....4.4% of all tax collected
Top.....10...35% of all income reported...52.6% of all tax collected
The above explains why any tax cut would favor the
rich.
And if you look at all the hoopla of the headlines
and all the gnashing of the teeth these numbers
have rarely changed over the decades.
Bottom 50...16% of all income reported....4.4% of all tax collected
Top.....10...35% of all income reported...52.6% of all tax collected
The above explains why any tax cut would favor the
rich.
And if you look at all the hoopla of the headlines
and all the gnashing of the teeth these numbers
have rarely changed over the decades.