Who do you think should be elected as next PM?

[I think not]

Everything in theory is great Rev, its the actions that matter not the words.

 

[smitty295]

What will happan if NDP gets in to office? Layton will blow money on his environmentally freindly bull. Honestly some of it is good but he will most likely spend more money on the environmen than he should don't you agree?

 

[Jo Canadian]

So it's my opinion that everyone needs to fend for themselves to a certain extent and have the government "oversee" if you will regulations, laws, basic services etc...

Fending for onesself was fine about 5000 years ago when there wasn't much of an urban population. When left to do so, the result is predation on those that need assistance fending for themselves.

The government cannot give you all that an individual hopes for, it is simply not economically possible.

Government overseeing services such as you mentioned is what we need as a society, not as an individual. That part to some degree is unrealistic

When I was a young man (maybe not that far back ), I was an idealist and believed in this socialism crap

Giving up doesn't help either.

the fact of the matter is, socialism unless it is a worldwide system, fails, because it is simply forced to adhere to the dominating system at hand, capitalism (or whatever else you want to call it).

Nothing can be started on a worldwide concensus. You must start small, success will grow... if it doesn't go to your head first.

 

[Vanni Fucci]

What will happan if NDP gets in to office? Layton will blow money on his environmentally freindly bull. Honestly some of it is good but he will most likely spend more money on the environmen than he should don't you agree?

Yes, because it's important for us to let corporations make profits despite the effects they have on the environment...because this earth was meant for us, and us alone, so to hell with sustainability, and preserving the environment for future generations. [/sarcasm]

 

[I think not]

Many before you, with you and after you have all said the same thing, if you want to talk about socialism start another thread, i think we're getting off topic, Jo

 

[Numure]

Libs will be lucky to have 1 or 2 still in Quebec. The Bloc should sweep there.

more than that, here count at least 10 seat the will remain liberal no matter what...

Indeed. The way the liberals have arranged the electoral charts is to maximise anglophone majorities. So at least 8-10 ridings will always vote anything but the bloc.

 

[DasFX]

Yes, because it's important for us to let corporations make profits despite the effects they have on the environment...because this earth was meant for us, and us alone, so to hell with sustainability, and preserving the environment for future generations.

The environment is important, but there is such a thing as doing too much too soon. An NDP government would try to fix every social and environmental issue in the country in 4 years. Commendable, but not very practical. Change takes time.

For instance, we all know that coal plants in Ontario are bad for the environment, however shutting them all down in the next two years isn't necessarily the best idea. Sure we cut down our emmisions, but where do we make up the lost electricity? We end up buying it from the States, who still use coal, and will use more of it to produce the extra demand and then that coal emission from the states blows up here and we end up with the same result environmentally but have paid double for the electricity.

 

[Numure]

Yes, because it's important for us to let corporations make profits despite the effects they have on the environment...because this earth was meant for us, and us alone, so to hell with sustainability, and preserving the environment for future generations.

The environment is important, but there is such a thing as doing too much too soon. An NDP government would try to fix every social and environmental issue in the country in 4 years. Commendable, but not very practical. Change takes time.

For instance, we all know that coal plants in Ontario are bad for the environment, however shutting them all down in the next two years isn't necessarily the best idea. Sure we cut down our emmisions, but where do we make up the lost electricity? We end up buying it from the States, who still use coal, and will use more of it to produce the extra demand and then that coal emission from the states blows up here and we end up with the same result environmentally but have paid double for the electricity.

We don't mind selling you our green energy, for a nifty price though .

 

[Vanni Fucci]

The environment is important, but there is such a thing as doing too much too soon. An NDP government would try to fix every social and environmental issue in the country in 4 years. Commendable, but not very practical. Change takes time.

For instance, we all know that coal plants in Ontario are bad for the environment, however shutting them all down in the next two years isn't necessarily the best idea. Sure we cut down our emmisions, but where do we make up the lost electricity? We end up buying it from the States, who still use coal, and will use more of it to produce the extra demand and then that coal emission from the states blows up here and we end up with the same result environmentally but have paid double for the electricity.

You seem a bit spooked by the NDP...perhaps you should read their Kyoto Plan.

They are not forecasting a sustainable environment in a year or two, or three. They are calling for sustainable environment within a generation, and with their plan, I think it could be done, or at the very least, it would head us in the right direction.

..and hey, at least they have a plan, right?

 

[Jo Canadian]

Kyoto - amazing opportunity or political football?

Environmental groups are absolutely right; the Kyoto plan is weak. But at least it's a plan. We now have a working document that we can build on as we go. Remember, Kyoto is not the end - it's the beginning. It's just the start of a fundamental change in the way we produce and use energy. That's a big deal, but we've made huge energy transitions before - from wood to coal, then to oil and gas. Each step we've became more efficient and less polluting.

http://www.davidsuzuki.org/about_us/Dr_David_Suzuki/Article_Archives/weekly04220501.asp

 

[I think not]

Political Football

 

[DasFX]

You seem a bit spooked by the NDP

The NDP are a big unknown. They really have no record federally and their record provincial is a little hit or miss. I mean, our surprise NDP government in Ontario probably wasn't the NDP at its best (although I did enjoy the extra week at March Break due to Rae Days).

I cannot see them ever forming the government in Ottawa. I mean their policies are ideal, but I'd be weary of them throwing us back into a deficit situation. Good social programs are cheap.

At best, I think the NDP would be a good loyal opposition.

Plus I don't like Jack Layton, and how he railroaded Toronto's two Olympic bids.

 

[Reverend Blair]

Many before you, with you and after you have all said the same thing, if you want to talk about socialism start another thread, i think we're getting off topic, Jo

Given that one of our parties here promotes democratic socialism and it's leader is leading the poll here, I don't think it's off topic at all.

Everything in theory is great Rev, its the actions that matter not the words.

I've spent a good chunk of my life living under NDP governments in Manitoba and Saskatchewan, I Think Not. Their policies and abilities are not theory to me, but tested reality. I've also lived under conservative and neo-conservative governments in the same places, so am able to make a direct comparison.

Layton will blow money on his environmentally freindly bull

There has been nothing in an NDP platform for over a decade that did not also have a way to pay for it listed. There are also economic benefits to becoming more environmentally friendly, so a lot of it produces, no reduces, economic benefits.

The environment is important, but there is such a thing as doing too much too soon. An NDP government would try to fix every social and environmental issue in the country in 4 years. Commendable, but not very practical. Change takes time.

Read the NDP Kyoto Plan. Read the NDP platform. You'll find you assumptions are erroneous.

 

[I think not]

If you don't think its off topic then fine by me Rev. As far as living under NDP and Conservatives in Manitoba, I think you will agree it becomes a bit more complicated on a national level, although I'm not sure which policies you speak of.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Who do you think shou

Is it really that much more complicated on a national level? The NDP have ideas on federal issues that are not that far off many of the ones the Liberals ran on. The NDP certainly wouldn't be the only democratic socialist government running a country.

The biggest hurdle would be the knee-jerk negativity from business and from the US. That has always been the biggest hurdle provincially too, but if they want to do business then they will have to smarten up and be cooperative...just like in the provinces.

I really do not think that you have a sufficient grasp of the NDP and its history, what it stands for and what it has done for this country, for you to be able to make a judgement, Ithink not.

That shows in your immediate reaction that socialism is "just a theory".

They have done very well in managing both Manitoba and Saskatchewan, better than their conservative predecessors, and they have done so through some very trying times.

 

[DasFX]

If the NDP's national policies and provincial records were so sound, then why has the NDP never come close to forming the government. They have never even formed the opposition. With all the garbage governments we've had, you would think folks would have exercised the NDP alternative had it been a sound choice.

 

[DasFX]

Re: RE: Who do you think shou

They have done very well in managing both Manitoba and Saskatchewan, better than their conservative predecessors, and they have done so through some very trying times.

With no disrespect to both Manitoba and Saskatchewan. Both are not seen as economic hot beds. Both have declining populations with small time cities. I mean they are both beautiful and have wonderful people, but I just don't see them competing against other markets in the world. Now if the NDP make all of Canada like that, where would we be?

 

[I think not]

You're right Rev, I may not have a grasp on NDP, but nevertheless they fall along the same "theories" as other similar parties worldwide which I do have some knowledge of (German SPD, New Zealand Labor Party, Greek PASOK etc...), they all revolve around the same "theories", and I too, like yourself, have seen them in action up close and personal, and I have found no evidence that this system can function for the good of the people.
Having said that, I admit it can certainly depend on the leader implementing the policies, as a system however I find it inherently flawed, it is an economic impossibility to sustain what these theories preach. And yes i do believe it will make a huge difference on a national scale.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Who do you think shou

It isn't a system, I think not...that's where your thinking begins to go wrong. It is a government implementing policies, no different than any other party.

If the NDP's national policies and provincial records were so sound, then why has the NDP never come close to forming the government. They have never even formed the opposition. With all the garbage governments we've had, you would think folks would have exercised the NDP alternative had it been a sound choice.

There are quite a few issues affecting that, Das. The Liberals are the big one...check any oftheir platforms over the years and you'll find that they take a lot of NDP policies.

There is also the big lie...that all NDP governments do is tax and spend, that they are fiscally irresponsible.

Then there are the little lies. Go through the threads here or elsewhere and see how many times the NDP get called communists, Stalinists, etc.

There is Quebec...the NDP will never win a seat there as long as the BQ has similar policies.

There is the constant smear campaign by big business. Have you heard Tommy D'Aquino screaming like a baby since Martin agreed to talk to Layton?

Finally, there is funding. The NDP has never gotten money from big business and has never had the financial means to compete with the Liberals and Conservatives in campaigns.

With no disrespect to both Manitoba and Saskatchewan. Both are not seen as economic hot beds. Both have declining populations with small time cities. I mean they are both beautiful and have wonderful people, but I just don't see them competing against other markets in the world. Now if the NDP make all of Canada like that, where would we be?

The NDP didn't make Manitoba and Saskatchewan "like that" though. The NDP have diversified both of those provinces so they are less "like that".

Saskatchewan became a have province this year for the first time ever. That isn't just because of the high price of oil, though that doubt sped things along, but because of years of careful spending on projects that would diversify the economy.

Manitoba is doing okay in spite of some brutal ag setbacks, and is poised to become a major electricity and alternative fuel producer for the rest of the country. The electricity deal would have been done long ago, but Conservative governments in Ontario kept balking at the idea of an east-west grid.

 

[I think not]

I would really appreciate a link for NDP please.

Nevermind I found it.