Praxius
Quoting
china
In the space which thought creates around itself there is no love. This space divides man from man, and in it is all the becoming, the battle of life, the agony and fear.
You're talking about thoughts and emotions, claiming there can not be the emotion of love, but there can be the emotion of fear and agony? That doesn't make much sense unless your a pessimist. Throughts are what creates emotions, it's an after effect if you will.
Agony and Fear are emotions to certain situations or events.... you can not claim they exist while the emotions of love and pleasure do not
Agony, Fear ,emotion pleasure,are all Thought and are a response of memory .Love of which I,m speaking has nothing to do with feelings or emotions , these are thought .Love is when you are not ,Praxius .By you I mean the image that you have build about your self ,the I, the me ,the EGO.When you are not -Love is . Love like happiness ,humility are not part of thought.Have you ever bin truly happy ?and the moment you thought about it the happiness left.Can a humble person be conscious of being humble? obviously the moment he thinks how humble he is , he's not humble any more .
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Meditation is the ending of this space, the ending of the me.
Meditation is to look from within yourself and reflect, that is not the end of you, that's the begining of true understanding of one's self, if anything. It is another form/method of thought, just at a different focal point.
Quote: Then relationship has quite a different meaning, for in that space which is not made by thought, the other does not exist, for you do not exist.
Sorry but that makes no sense.... once again, emotions and feelings are how we organize, validate and prioritize our thoughts.... they are both one in the same for humans. Logic is also involved in emotions, believe it or not. What we determine is logical is based on our reasoning / what makes sense to us / what is in the best interests of whom or what within the situation..... regardless of how little emotion is expressed in the logical thought process, there is still the existence of emotion.
Quote: Meditation then is not the pursuit of some vision, however sanctified by tradition. Rather it is the endless space where thought cannot enter.
Do you even know what meditation actually is? If thought can not enter this area when you are meditating, then what the hell goes through your mind when you are meditating? Just black empty space? Do you become a vegetable?
Me thinks not.
This post on meditation I've placed few month ago.
This morning, the sea was like a lake or an enormous river without a ripple, and so calm that you could see the reflections of the stars so early in the morning. The dawn had not yet come, and so the stars, and the reflection of the cliff, and the distant lights of the town, were there on the water. And as the sun came up over the horizon in a cloudless sky it made a golden path, and it was extraordinary to see that light of a filling the earth and every leaf and blade of grass. As you watched, a great stillness came into you. The brain itself became very quiet, without any reaction, without a movement, and it was strange to feel this immense stillness. "Feel" isn't the word. The quality of that silence, that stillness, is not felt by the brain; it is beyond the brain. The brain can conceive, formulate or make a design for the future, but this stillness is beyond its range, beyond all imagination, beyond all desire. You are so still that your body becomes completely part of the earth, part of everything that is still. And as the slight breeze came from the hills, stirring the leaves, this stillness, this extraordinary quality of silence, was not disturbed. And as you watched the sea, so very still you really became part of everything. You were everything. You were the light, and the beauty of love. Again, to say "you were a part of everything" is also wrong: the word "you" is not adequate because you really weren't there. You didn't exist. There was only that stillness, the beauty, the extraordinary sense of love. The words you and I separate things. This division in this strange silence and stillness doesn't exist. And as you watched , space and time seemed to have come to an end, and the space that divides had no reality. That leaf and the blue shining water were not different from you.
Meditation is really very simple. We complicate it. We weave a web of ideas round it what it is and what it is not. But it is none of these things. Because it is so very simple it escapes us, because our minds are so complicated, so time-worn and time-based. And this mind dictates the activity of the heart, and then the trouble begins. But meditation comes naturally, with extraordinary ease, when you walk on the sand or look out of your window or see those marvellous hills burnt by last summer's sun. Why are we such tortured human beings, with tears in our eyes and false laughter on our lips? If you could walk alone among those hills or in the woods or along the long, white, bleached sands, in that solitude you would know what meditation is. The ecstasy of solitude comes when you are not frightened to be alone no longer belonging to the world or attached to anything. Then, like that dawn that came up this morning, it comes silently, and makes a golden path in the very stillness, which was at the beginning, which is now, and which will be always there
So I hope that will answer some of your questions .I will continue to answer the remaining questions when time permits.
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Quote: To us, the little space made by thought around itself, which is the me, is extremely important, for this is all the mind knows, identifying itself with everything that is in that space. And the fear of not being is born in that space. But in meditation, when this is understood, the mind can enter into a dimension of space where action is inaction.
Apparently that depends on your interpretation of the physical body during this process, where you can not see what the mind is actively doing during this time. You are attempting to limit what abilities the human mind can and can not do without actually truly knowing those limitations.... you are going by your own experiences from what I can gather and they conflict with my own and others in which I have had this discussion with.
Quote: We do not know what love is, for in the space made by thought around itself as the me, love is the conflict of the me and the not-me. This conflict, this torture, is not love. Thought is the very denial of love, and it cannot enter into that space where the me is not. In that space is the benediction which man seeks and cannot find. He seeks it within the frontiers of thought, and thought destroys the ecstasy of this benediction.
Maybe you do not know what love is, and perhaps you seem to think everything in the universe, or at least the earth, revolves around the "You" but that in itself is where your understanding fails in this aspect of what love is.
Love is sacrafice.... sacrafice in which you are willing to make in order to fullfill something or someone in your life in which you have determined is a necessity for your survival or purpose in this time/existence/life. It is a personal logical conclusion in which your thoughts have come to in a paticular situation. It is no more or less important then the agony and fear in which you spoke of above.... it is a balance of understanding the world that surrounds you.... it is something that connects you to others, that allows you to open parts of your mind and body to others in which most would normally never see or experience..... it is sacrafice of your own security for a greater good.... a gamble if you will. Many times in life we will lose this gamble, and yet we will continue to try and seek it out again and again.
Meditation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meditation
"Meditation is a discipline in which the mind is focused on an object of thought or awareness. It usually involves turning attention to a single point of reference. The practice may engender a higher state of consciousness. Meditation is recognized as a component of almost all religions, and has been practiced for over 5,000 years.
Meditative disciplines encompass a wide range of spiritual and/or psychophysical practices which can emphasize development of either a high degree of mental concentration, or the apparent converse, mental quiescence."
...... Which is the total opposite of what you claimed it was, which brings me to the conclusion that you never experienced nor attempted this practice.... either that or you attempted it and failed. Perhaps "Fear" made you come to the conclusion in thought that it doesn't work and we can not enter this area..... if we can not enter this area of thought, then why do millions of people around the world still do it?
It would seem to me that you are continually bringing out threads that relate to thoughts, emotions, religion, faith and of course the nation of China.... perhaps attempting to counter or disprove something you either do not like or do not believe in. There are multiple methods and processes in which one person can take/use/do to come to a much closer understanding of these things which goes far beyond seeking the answers from another human..... and one of those ways is Meditation to seek those answers from within yourself..... other ways include drugs or both which is also quite effective and responsive to thought, however they are also illegal in most countries (I wonder why)
So basically just so I am undestanding what you are trying to explain..... love, emotions and meditation are all just illusiion?
You are not separate from that illusion. You are the illusion. If one illusion goes, it is always replaced with another illusion. Why? Because the ending of the illusion is the ending of 'you'. That is the death. The ending of belief is the ending of the 'you' that is there. So, that is not the poetic, romantic death -- of "dying to your yesterdays." Physical death is the only way through which you flush out what your whole culture has put in there.
